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2013 and earlier-Honda Civic Lease Questions
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Comments
As for your car, I obviously havent seen it but if its in half decent shape there is a good demand for these cars. Youre not getting any tax break from the dealer by trading it in since youre leasing so if i were you, id post it up on different nissan/infiniti forums and im positive someone will snatch up the car for more than $8,000. People on these forums know how good and reliable these cars are and dont fear this car with 96K miles. So if you feel upto it, make it in two transactions. Honda dealers will always have a stock of civics so sell your car privately first, for at least 9k, pocket 8k and use the 1k toward the new civic with your payment staying under $199 tax incl. Yes its true ur car depreciates each day but at the same time your also not making any payments on the new car while u have the old one so it evens out.
At the same time, based on your G35s mileage, it seems like you drive a lot and it doesnt make much sense for you to lease. You can finance the civic at great interest rates now. Use your car as a down payment and pay a little more but own the car outright later. Civics have an even higher demand used and hold a lot of residual value.
Dont fear the dealer, dont be intimidated, if youre fair theres a whole bunch of other dealers and someone will take your deal. Especially honda, they are all over the place and dying to move units. If you need a listing of Nissan/Infiniti forums, you can email me at Daniel@number1leasing.com
Good Luck
I don't believe that Honda Finance offers 10,000 mile per year leases on Honda division vehicles, but if it does its 10k residuals are likely 1% higher than its 12k. That's usually how banks do it.
When negotiating your deal, make sure to take advantage of the $1,000 cash incentive that is currently available on leases of the 2010 Civic. If I was in the market for one right now, I personally would shoot for a selling price of right around dealer invoice minus the $1,000 dealer cash.
Car_man
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I always advise consumers to put as little money down as possible when leasing. Consumers who make large down payments on leased vehicles risk losing part or all of them if their vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen and never recovered. Even though it means that your monthly payment will be a little higher, it is much safer to go with a zero down lease.
Since you are new to leasing, you definitely should check out the following informative articles on the subject that are available here at Edmunds.com: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car and Calculate Your Own Lease Payment.
In short, the easiest way to get a good deal on a leased vehicle is to shop around for the lowest possible selling price and then have the dealer that you decide to go with calculate your vehicle's monthly payment using its buy rate lease money factor. Honda Finance's current buy rate lease money factor for the 2010 Civic is .00127 for consumers who qualify for its top credit tier.
Car_man
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Quick question when you say you "would shoot for a selling price of right around dealer invoice minus the $1,000 dealer cash" would that be approx invoice 'then' subtract the $1,000dealer cash?
That's where I could use a touch of clarity. Does that mean get as close to invoice including the dealer cash, or get as close to invoice and THEN subtract dealer cash to potentially end up with an agreed upon sale price less than invoice.
Thanks in advance!
Just remember... this isn't a consumer rebate.. Don't negotiate a price, and then ask them to take off another $1000. Shoot for a negotiated price of $1000 under invoice.
regards,
kyfdx
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MSRP:19155
Selling price: 17982 which included all the paper work fee.
RV 11,159
Monthly payment 249 tax included with 1000 down payment.
I realize that it is quite expensive lease. What would be the reasonable price, which number should I negotiate with the dealer? Any advice would be appreciated.
MF 0.00127
RF 61%
I was told that the number 16480 is not realistic, is that true?
Thank you in advance.
Please check the accuracy of your information. For example, the 19,155 MSRP, 0.00127 money factor, and 61% residual is for the Civic LX Sedan (see below) and not the Coupe. The $249 payment is way too high even with nothing down let alone $1,000 down.
Here is AHFC's national lease promo for the Civic Sedan...
2010 Civic Sedan Featured Special Lease
$169.00 per month for 36 months. $1,799.00 total due at signing.
Includes down payment with no security deposit. Excludes taxes, titles and fees. For well-qualified buyers.
Terms
Offer valid through: 7/6/2010
FEATURED SPECIAL LEASE: Closed-end lease for 2010 Civic Sedan 5 Speed Automatic LX (Model FA1F5AEW) for $169.00 per month for 36 months with a $1,630.00 capitalized cost reduction available to customers who qualify for the HFS Super Preferred credit tier. Other rates/tiers are available under this offer. $1,799.00 total due at lease signing (includes first month's payment and capitalized cost reduction with no security deposit; total net capitalized cost and base monthly payment does not include tax, license, title, registration, documentation fees, options, insurance and the like). Not all buyers may qualify.
Subject to limited availability. From May 4, 2010 through July 6, 2010, to approved lessees by Honda Financial Serivces. Closed end lease for 2010 Civic Sedan 5 Speed Automatic LX vehicles (Model FA1F5AEW), for well qualified lessees. Not all lessees will qualify. Higher lease rates apply for lessees with lower credit ratings. MSRP $19,155.00 (includes destination) less the capitalized cost reduction (which may be paid by the suggested dealer contribution) resulting in actual net capitalized cost $16,480.74. Net capitalized cost includes $595 acquisition fee. Dealer contribution may vary and could affect actual lease payment. Taxes, license, title fees, options and insurance extra. Total monthly payments $6,084.00. Option to purchase at lease end $11,684.55. Lessee responsible for maintenance, excessive wear/tear and 15 cents/mi. over 12000 miles/year for vehicles with MSRP less than $30,000, but for vehicles with MSRP of $30,000 or more, mileage cost is 20 cents/mi. over 12000 miles/year. See dealer for complete details.
Given the information provided in this ad, one can compute the MF and Res factors as 0.00127 and 61%, respectively.
Last month, I negotiated a lease for a 2010 Accord LX for $229 per month, including tax, and $80 paid upfront for plates.
Hope this helps.
John
I got this offer from a dealer for a 2010 Civic LX, 15k miles/year for 36 months at a montly pmt of $167 plus $1003 due at signing which includes (1st payment, sales taxe (8.125%), DMV and other required fees totaling $300).
Sounds unbeleivable right ;-))
Here's a breakdown of the calculation
MSRP: 19, 155
RV(59%): 11, 301
MF: 0.00127
Base cap cost or selling price is 15,260
Sales tax in my area is 8.125%
period: 36 mos
Their ad was originally $149 add tax+dmv+first payment due at signing (this is for 12k miles/year)
The problem with these figures is that when you plug them in the lease calculator you get a different lease pmt ($138), much lower than the $149 they are advertising.
After a trial and error method I came to the conclusion that they are actually using a base price of $15,800 (which is $500 over what they claim they are using). After this discovery I contacted the sales manager and he was denying this fact and said that my calculations must be flawed (which I dont think SO!!!)
Can anyone knowledgeable enough shed some light into this!!!!
This being said, I beleive the $167/mo with $1003 due at signing for 15k miles/year is unbeatable deal ;-)
All comments are welcome!! Thanks
You received a very good deal! However, the sell price was a bit higher than what you've indicated. Here's why...
167.00 = 0.00127(15,467.50 + 595+11,301.45) + (15,467.50+595 - 11,301.45) / 36
Assuming that most of the information you provided is accurate, the selling price of the vehicle is 15,467.50 and not 15,260 unless, of course, you're capitalizing another 207.50 in addition to the AHFC acq fee of 595.
I'm not sure which Ad you're looking at as I don't see one with $149. Where do you see this being advertised? Here's the current 12K mile AHFC Ad...
2010 Civic Sedan Featured Special Lease
$169.00 per month for 36 months. $1,799.00 total due at signing.
Includes down payment with no security deposit. Excludes taxes, titles and fees.
Offer valid through: 7/6/2010
FEATURED SPECIAL LEASE: Closed-end lease for 2010 Civic Sedan 5 Speed Automatic LX (Model FA1F5AEW) for $169.00 per month for 36 months with a $1,630.00 capitalized cost reduction available to customers who qualify for the HFS Super Preferred credit tier. Other rates/tiers are available under this offer. $1,799.00 total due at lease signing (includes first month's payment and capitalized cost reduction with no security deposit; total net capitalized cost and base monthly payment does not include tax, license, title, registration, documentation fees, options, insurance and the like). Not all buyers may qualify.
Subject to limited availability. From May 4, 2010 through July 6, 2010, to approved lessees by Honda Financial Serivces. Closed end lease for 2010 Civic Sedan 5 Speed Automatic LX vehicles (Model FA1F5AEW), for well qualified lessees. Not all lessees will qualify. Higher lease rates apply for lessees with lower credit ratings. MSRP $19,155.00 (includes destination) less the capitalized cost reduction (which may be paid by the suggested dealer contribution) resulting in actual net capitalized cost $16,480.74. Net capitalized cost includes $595 acquisition fee. Dealer contribution may vary and could affect actual lease payment. Taxes, license, title fees, options and insurance extra. Total monthly payments $6,084.00. Option to purchase at lease end $11,684.55. Lessee responsible for maintenance, excessive wear/tear and 15 cents/mi. over 12000 miles/year for vehicles with MSRP less than $30,000, but for vehicles with MSRP of $30,000 or more, mileage cost is 20 cents/mi. over 12000 miles/year. See dealer for complete details.
MF 0.00127
RF 61%
Anyway, congrats! Enjoy your new Honda!
John
To answer you question, the ad was launched by Brewster Honda, NY, you can see it in their website by clickin on current offers (although this deal is expired now!!)
I was able to secure the deal last weekend and will be signing tomorrow afternoon.
The more I read about the deal, I am a bit more confused. Please correct me if I am wrong. So you should negotiate for the best price. If I get 169+tax+fee with 1799 down payment as advertised, should I satisfied or should I negotiate to get the better price. Someone in this forum even got the deal on 15, 467. When I quote on Civic LX sedan with 16400, I was told that I am not being realistic. Am I missing any fee or I just not tough enough to negotiate?
When a sales man tells you to be more realistic about a price, I think it's time to walk away and let him feel you are not willing to accept whatever price he offers you. You should counter offer as many times as you can to secure the best price. Of course, there's a lot of hussle and come and go in this process but that's the price to pay if you want to get the best deal out there. Remember, that walking away from the dealership after of course making an offer is not the end of the negotiation, the sales man will surely get back in touch with you with a better offer (assuming he's interested in making a new customer).
I personnally got this quote you got from my local dealer, but I declined it and walked away, then he called me with a better offer (177$ and 1000 down with 15k miles/year). SO I beleive you should look more and not take the advertised offer as the best deal out there.
Goodluck!!
Thanks for your advice. This is a very helpful forum.
MSRP of the Civic $19115
Selling price $17,066
Invoice on the vehicle $17766.07
So...$700 off invoice.
Based on that number plus $289 for window tinting, $550 down and my payments would be $212.27 plus tax for a total monthly payment of $233.07.
Should i try to negotiate less down or the full 1k under invoice amount?
Thanks!
I am also looking for civic lx. Is 233.07 included paper work, option and all kind of fee? Do you also have to pay for initiation fee( for the lease)? Thanks for sharing your experience.
If you are in the tristate area, you should be looking for $2000 off MSRP. Brewster Honda, NY is advertising currently the Civic LX for 149 plus tax and dmv (selling price is 15,467+ 595 bank fee which give you an adj cap cost of approx 16000). That's what I paid for mine.
Goodluck!
$16,500 sales price
$436 down (including 1st month, license and doc fees) and $205 monthly payments, including tax. I'm in the good old Pacific Northwest!
I don't think so.
Keep us up to date on your next car. I'm also looking and I may get one as early as next Saturday if the numbers come out right.
My lease is up on the 07 Accord and it has 14,000 over the alloted miles. Maybe it is best to go with a purchase next time or buy this Accord.
The residual value for a lease with only 12,000 miles per year would be 2% higher.
When negotiating your lease on this car, make sure to take advantage of the $1,000 dealer cash that is currently available on it.
Car_man
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Car_man
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Civic LX auto 4 door 15k miles /year $213.23/month
MSRP - $19155
Selling price - $16167.32
Acquision fee - $595
dealer fees - $285
sales tax (8%) - $611.85
Residual value - $11,307.35
money factor - 0.00127
I did some financial forensics to confirm the dealer's calculations. Although you didn't indicate your state, I was able to determine that it's NY from the way in which the the taxes are computed. No state computes taxes in this fashion except NY. The dealer is basing your tax on a taxable payment of 195.45. The 213.23, of course, includes tax.
One thing that does seem a bit strange and that is the residual value of 11,307.35 which is about 59.0308% of 19,155 (MSRP). Residual factors are nice round numbers like 59%, 62%, etc. This indicates to me that the dealer based the residual (59%) calculation on an MSRP of 19,165 instead of the published 19,155. So, you may want to double check this with your dealer.
The dealer is, indeed, selling the car for 16,167.32 which is not unreasonable at all. However, I think you can do better. I'm willing to bet that you can get this car for $15,718.40. If so, and assuming the MSRP is 19,165, your monthly payment would be exactly 199.00 including tax.
I suggest that you create a professional-loooking one-page lease proposal and FAX/email it to the dealer. This will save lots of time, money, and aggravation as you can negotiate via phone/email from the comfort of your home/office. If you peruse my posts, I give examples of what one should look like.
Hope this helps.
John
PS: Keep in mind that no one knows the true dealer cost or the dealer invoice
except a few privileged people inside the dealership and Honda. The difference
between invoice and cost is primarily holdback.
Thank you for your information. I am indeed in NY. I do need to ask, how do you come up with $15,718.40?
Good question... I rigged it so that the payment would come out to a nice round whole number. Hate subtracting those dang decimals in my checkbook!
Actually, 15,718.40 would be a fabulous selling price. I did check overstock at
zag.com
for the NYC area and found $15,640 to be the lowest price for that area. However, those prices are often overly optimistic so 15,700 something sounded very doable. By the way, a sell price of $15,655.30 would yield a payment of exactly $197.00 including tax. So, if you can get a payment between 195 and 200 with only first payment and DMV fees due upfront, you will have gotten a very good deal.
Be persistent and check around because I'm reasonably confident that you can get there. Keep me posted.
All the Best,
John
Thank you for all of your help. Right now down to $205/month, not sure if they will budge any more. One more question, they are paying off what I owe on a 2009 Malibu. I owe $14,500 and they will be paying it off in full (I think it is a fair offer). Do I get any sales tax credit for this? I think I can if I was purchasing but not sure I can for a lease. New York State has strange sales tax laws for vehicles.
Thanks,
Josh
Per Section 526.5(f) of the Sales and Use Tax Regulations provides, in part:
Trade-in. Any allowance or credit for any tangible personal property accepted in part payment by a vendor on the purchase of tangible personal property or services and intended for resale by such vendor shall be excluded when arriving at the receipt subject to tax. Only the net sale price of tangible personal property or the charge for services would be subject to tax.
According to NY sales tax regs, the value of your trade-in, if used to reduce the gross capitalized cost, would be excluded from the tax base and, therefore, considered to be non-taxable. However, any negative equity capitalized in the lease would be subject to tax. Negative equity is the amount by which your loan balance exceeds your trade-in value.
I would contact the fund provider, if you haven't already done so, to confirm the payoff balance on the '09 Malibu. I would also do some research concerning the trade-in value of that vehicle. For starters, go to kbb.com
Once you've agreed on the trade-value and know the exact outstanding balance; I can, if you like, construct a lease proposal for you.
Let me know what you want to do.
John
PS: NY computes tax on tax. See my post #982 at
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef35de2/982
I have checked kbb, it showed $13,950 good condition, $14,800 excellent condition. My opinion, 14,500 is a far offer. My payoff is 14,422.82, so there is only like a $73 difference. So I guess from your explanation there is very little tax credit since taxes are based on the payment.
By the way I was aware about the being taxed on your sales tax and taxed on the negative equity you roll into the lease. So actually in the end you are paying TRIPLE tax on negative equity if you are rolling it and your sales taxes into your lease payment. I tried fighting this a few years ago, but got no where. Just a letter stating that this is they way it is. I have learned that you have to figure out your lease payment without sales tax first, then multiply it by 1.08 (8% sales tax) to come up with an accurate monthly payment. I love NYS.
Thanks again,
Josh
I'm not so sure you understand. You are entitled to a full tax credit in the amount of the trade-in value regardless of your loan balance. Your taxable payment is zero. Therefore, you will not owe any NY sales tax. So now, your lease payment should be about 182 instead of the 199 I mentioned earlier as there will be no capitalized taxes.
Not long ago, I had this same situation with someone from NJ that was leasing an Infiniti G37. His sales tax liability was zero. Ask the dealer to write you a check for $73 equity or, apply it to the upfront costs.
Also, you are not paying triple tax on the negative equity. And, you don't multiply the taxable payment by (1 + tax rate) to get the lease payment. See my post #982...
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef35de2/982
Hope this helps.
John
I did not realize this was the case. As an example, my sister traded in her car recently for a lease. They paid off exactly what she owed ($18,622.85). She did not however get any sales tax credit. In fact it was not even referenced on the lease contact. Can she go back and get a refund from the state? I mean she did sell it to a dealer for resale.
Josh
She is entitled to a trade-in tax credit. The trade-in value is used to reduce the gross cap for purposes of determining the taxable payment. The trade-in value has nothing to do with the amount owed which may be more or less than the trade value. If the trade-in value was not documented at the time your sister leased her new car, then it may be difficult to prove. It certainly doesn't hurt to discuss the matter with the dealer.
Let me know if I can be of assistance.
John
I just found something that's a bit troubling in the following document...
http://www.tax.state.ny.us/pubs_and_bulls/tg_bulletins/st/taxable_receipt.htm
This publication provides that for trade-ins
As a seller (i.e., dealer), when you accept something as a trade-in and reduce your selling price accordingly, sales tax is only due on the reduced price after subtracting the credit for the trade-in, as long as you plan to resell the trade-in item. This is most common with sales and purchases of motor vehicles.
Example: A customer comes into your car dealership and decides to buy a vehicle from you for $22,500. You agree to take the customer’s current vehicle as a trade-in and give him a $4,500 credit for his old vehicle. You would calculate the taxable amount of the sale as follows:
Original price $22,500
Trade-in -4,500
Sale price subject to tax 18,000
Again, this is only true as long as you plan to resell the vehicle being traded in, and the trade-in allowance is being applied as partial payment for the item being purchased.
Whether it's a lease or purchase shouldn't matter as every leased car is a sold car... someone is buying it. According to the above March 2010 publication, the trade-in value is non-taxable as long as it is used as partial payment for the item (vehicle) being purchased. It's interesting to note that New Jersey has similar wording in their reg...
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/pdf/ssutlease.pdf
yet uses the entire trade-in value when computing the tax credit regardless of whether there's an outstanding balance or not.
The NY reg, as stated, doesn't make a bit of sense whatsoever as they compute tax based on the sum of the taxable payments. And so, NY distinguishes between taxable payment and non-taxable payment. As such, it shouldn't matter whether or not there is a loan balance existing on the trade as it's being paid-off by the dealer in exchage for your trade.
I would contact the NY Dept of Taxation...
http://www.tax.state.ny.us/nyshome/telephone.htm
and request clarification. Also, don't take the word of the representative. Ask them to direct you to the appropriate legal document or reference.
John
Here is the specific information:
Selling Price: $19,020
Down Payment: $2,000
Term: 36 months
Rate: 0.00200
Residual Value: 61%, $11,660
Monthly Payment Quote: $246
When I got back home, I looked up how monthly payments on leases are calculated. Here is what I did:
Depreciation Cost = [(19,025 - 2000) - 11,660] / 36 = $149.03
Financing Cost = (17,025 + 11,660) * .00200 = $57.37
Monthly Payment = 149.03 + 57.37 = $206.40
I live in Ohio, where, from my research, I understand sales tax is paid up front in full. So, I don't think that is included in the monthly payment.
So, my calculation and the quote are not even close. Did I make a mistake, not have enough information, not understand what's going on here...? I am going to graduate school in math, so this is driving me crazy.
Thanks in advance for any help.
http://www.carbuyingtips.com/regm.xls
it's easy to use.
Looking at your deal you should be negotiating down to around $15,800 for a decent deal on a Civic LX auto. Just leased one in upstate NY at this price. With putting tax and $2000 down you should at a much lower monthly payment. Use the calculator to figure it all out. Don't forget about all the fees (DMV, dealer fee, acquision fee - $595, etc)
A money factor .00245
$2,000 down (bc of first purchase) + $1,000 down for TTL (it's Texas :sick:)
There is an acquisition fee of $595 included
MSRP: 19155, although I think they may have jacked up the price a bit bc of add-ons.
Residual value 61%
36 months
I negotiated a monthly payment of $185.
Is this a good deal? I'm thinking it's OK since it's my first purchase.
Thanks!
The residual is correct and can't be changed by the dealer or your score.
Even if you qualified for the featured deal as written you would need to pay TX taxes and put money down and put down nearly $2k, so your payment is not that bad compared to the featured deal.
That said, there is a $1,000 incentive to dealers that can be combined with the lease deal, so selling prices of $1k under invoice are possible. Plug in your numbers into a lease calc and see what you are paying for the car, I would bet you can whittle the price down lower. With no car credit you may not can help the money factor, but you always try for a better price.
Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions.
Hi, I'm curious what dealership you were working with... I am trying to lease a civic lx, but in my neck of the woods, they won't budge from a $16,900 cap cost ... which puts my monthly lease payments at $259 (15K miles, 24 month lease, $0 down). I will gladly go upstate to get a better deal, but need to get the car this weekend.
(sorry if this message posts twice ... not sure if it went through previously)
Thanks,
MSRP: $19,155
Invoice: $17,706
Sell price: $15,999
Doc fee: $398
Acquisition fee: $595
Net Cap: $16,992
Term: 36 months / 12k miles per year
Residual: $11,684.55
MF: 0.000127 (3.05%)
Payment: $183.85 plus tax
Due at signing: first payment w/tax + tags + title
One dealer was doing $199 + tax + tags + title with a sign and drive.
Another dealer was doing $179 + tax + tags + title with $240 due at signing (the best deal), but this dealer was several hours drive away.
I e-mailed the sales manager of a local dealership and asked for a price. I mentioned the $1k incentive and the stepped dealer money that ended at the end of month (yesterday) and asked if he wanted or needed to sell one more. I guess he did, based the price I got. Counting the doc fee as part of the price (I always do) put it at about $1,300 under invoice net, I think the step was at least $300 and may have been $600 or more. So a break even or make money deal even at that price, and 100% of holdback as well.
My son is very happy as am I
If you want a Civic, yes it is possible to lease a new Civic for under $200 per month with only the first payment down up front. Or at least it was last month and it of course depends on your tax rate and state.
If that doesn't work, he really does not have much choice but to continue leasing his car. There really isn't any cheap way to get out of a lease several years early. Your brother may end up having to keep his car until the scheduled end of his lease and at that time decide whether he is interested in purchasing it. Doing so actually makes some sense at this point. Keeping his car until lease-end gives him the option to walk away from it if it ends up being in an accident at some point over the course of his lease (which would damage the car's resale value...why not let the bank take the hit instead of him) or if they car ends up giving him problems.
Car_man
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