Honda Pilot Lease Questions

clinton2 · April 2008

FYI - just paid:

~31400 Cap Cost

~18,600 Res

.00043 mf

~$390/mo + tax

0 down

swampdragon · April 2008

that sounds like a great deal-
4x4?
really nothing down?
what state?

After a lot of negotiating and searching

Pilot VP 4WD - in NJ
335 a month (that includes the tax)
500 down + 283 motor vehicles charge

bigdadi118 · April 2008

EVERY NEW2008
PILOT VP 4X4
$22,998
Save Over $6,588 OFF MSRP of $29,630

Approved credit; 12,000 miles/year, .20/mile excess;
$999 cash or trade down plus tax & acqui fees. Security deposit wavied.
$299 x 36, 53% res.

Price excludes taxes, title, doc fee (298.-), and registration fees; prices include all customer rebates, promotions, and incentives to dealer.

This should be Honda Car Finance Lease.

clinton2 · April 2008

yes 4x4 - chicago area

qbrozen · April 2008

how many months and how many miles? Is that stated cap cost before or after fees? If after, would you mind breaking the fees down?

clinton2 · April 2008

sorry - left out the additional details....

36 mo/36 k miles
1st payment was all I paid

all the fees were included in that price...sorry I don't have that detail - I think the doc fee for IL is $150 - that was included, as well as some acquisition fees. They backed those into the lease cost I wanted. Had gotten prices at several dealerships first, armed with this knowledge and the info on this board. The dealership still hit me up with the typical salesroom bs - the stuff that makes everyone cringe when thinking of buying a car - they started the lease pricing at almost $700/month with a $2000 down payment and also threw in several different sales people, closers, etc.during the process, as well a last minute fee, but in the end, I came close to getting the price I wanted for the car I wanted.

qbrozen · April 2008

thanks.
that at least gets me in the ballpark ... i think.
i'll throw this the wife's way. I think it will come down between this and the used XC90 she is drooling over.

CarMan@Edmunds · April 2008

Hi eyedoctor. I would be happy to help you out. This truck's lease payment will vary depending upon what its selling price is. For the purpose of this exercise I will assume a selling price of $500 over dealer invoice. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2008 Honda Pilot EX-L AWD without navigation or the entertainment system options that has an MSRP of $34,080 and a selling price of $31,417 through Honda Finance in New York right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its zero down, pre-tax monthly payment would be around $421 assuming that you qualify for its top credit tier and pay a security deposit at lease signing.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · April 2008

That's a really good question, Craig. I suspect that the answer is yes, you would be able to take advantage of Honda's special regional lease program. Consumer eligibility for incentives is usually based upon the place that they live, not where they physically take delivery of the vehicle or where it is from.

Car_man
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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

dougmorris35 · April 2008

I'm looking into leasing a Pilot SE or EX in the Chicago area. How is sales tax figured into the payment?

Thanks

kyfdx · April 2008

Sales tax in Illinois is calculated on the entire selling price of the vehicle.. You can pay it upfront, or roll it into the payments..

It's very expensive to lease in Illinois..

Depending on where you live, you'll need to watch out for the Chicago lease tax.. That is an additional tax on the monthly payment.

Good luck!
kyfdx

dougmorris35 · April 2008

Thanks for the info.

I want to email several dealerships around the area. What information do I need to get from them in addition to:

Base Cap Cost
Costs added to Lease
Cap Cost Reduction
Residual Factor
Money Factor
Lease Term
Mileage

dwynne · April 2008

Negotiate the price on the price first - you do have to let them know you are leasing since in this case it effects the amount of the dealer incentive. But you want to be around invoice less incentive ($1,500-$2,500) for the Pilot, destination, and any dealer doc or prep fees. I have never heard of a Honda dealer marking up lease rates, but I suppose some of them could do this. Once you have the best price, the other numbers like taxes, tags, title should be the same wherever you lease from - the same for the lease MF and residual. Just plug the price in and figure the payments.

IL is one of the states with the special discounted lease rates. Good thing, since having to pay state and perhaps local tax on the whole Pilot would pretty much mean leasing would not be smart without such a cheap rate.

Dennis

bigdadi118 · April 2008

Remember this is not standard charge in leasing. The floor manager at Boch Honda in Boston area always add the destination 600's. DO NOT bite this bait. They will take it off if one protects. Bank Acqui fee 500's is somewhat standard though.

The lease should contain below upon signing. Anything else tell them take it off.
1st month payment
Tax
Bank Acqui Fee
Doc/Adm Fee
Reg/Plate Fee

dwynne · April 2008

You do not understand, you do have to pay the destination charge it is standard on every vehicle sold.

What Boch and many other dealers do is list prices on their web page, ads, and in e-mail and phone offers that DO NOT INCLUDE the destination fee. This makes their numbers sound a lot better than the competition and is used to lure you onto the lot where they then add destination back onto the price. Dealers do the same thing with a high doc or prep fee - they advertise or give out a good price, then sock the fee on top of it once someone tries to lease or purchase the vehicle.

A smart shopper makes sure that all quotes they compare include the vehicle, destination, and any dealer dor or prep fees. Then you compare these quotes and choose the lowest and THEN you go to the dealer to get it. If you are not specific that you want the quote to include these three things then you will be fooled into going to a dealer that will try to inflate the price on you. If they do give you quotes that include everything and they try to add something once you are there, just leave.

The bank fee / acquisition fee is $595 with AHFC and does have to be paid on every lease.

Dennis

bigdadi118 · April 2008

I talked live online with Boch's internet sales person and I printed the conversation out. I asked the amount due at signing and the breakdown. Online he didn't quote me destination charge. I brought along the print out and showed it to that floor manager as soon as he showed me his figure due upon signing w/destination charge. He saw my printout then simply crossed it out and go in the office & come back again some other numbers. He just play around some numbers and intends to squeeze buyers as much as money as possible for the dealer.

dwynne · April 2008

If you specifically asked if the price included the destination and he said it did, then they lied and tricked you onto the lot hoping you would do the deal anyway.

If you did not ask if it was included, then they just tricked you into coming onto the lot hoping you would do the deal anyway.

Either way, bad dealer - no biscuit

.

Dennis

swampdragon · April 2008

I am not sure that Honda charges a bank fee - and the security deposit is dealer optional - I havent had one on my last 2 hondas

Here is the deal that I am picking up before the end of the month.

It is the regional deal with a little improvement

4WD Honda Pilot VP
$335 a month (that includes sales tax in NJ) - sales tax in NJ is 7% on just the monthly lease payment - the base number is $314
36 months, 36k miles
$500 down and also $280 for 3 years of motor vehicle fees - the car wont need registration again while I own it

I thought this was a pretty good price

dwynne · April 2008

I am not sure that Honda charges a bank fee - and the security deposit is dealer optional - I haven't had one on my last 2 hondas

The acquisition fee / bank fee is $595. Security deposit is not "Dealer optional" it is required or waived by AHFC. For top tier lessees and returning lessees it is normally waived. If it is not, you can bump the MF up by 0.0001 (IIRC) and AHFC will waive the security deposit.

You should not base your deal off on any published Honda "special" deals since those leave a lot on the table. You should negotiate the price of the Pilot down to invoice less incentive ($1,500 for the VP with cheap lease) for the vehicle, destination, and any dealer doc/prep fees - or less. Based on what you posted, I have no idea if you got a good deal or not - tell us how much the Pilot was and the dealer fees.

Dennis

bigdadi118 · April 2008

Herb Chambers Honda (Boston) internet sales refused to quote any price over the phone or by email. They require me to go to the dealership to work out the numbers.

Of course I refused and say "Thank you very much. I won't come down until I have some solid numbers that I understand. See you later!"

dougmorris35 · April 2008

After getting some responses from dealers, my best first quote on E XL Nav is:

36 mo/12k miles/year
MSRP 36280
Invoice 32905

Base Cap Cost: 28,857
Downpayment of : 2918.90 (including tax of 2326, 1st mo pmt of 424.90 and Title/Lic of 168).
Residual of 18,140
Payment of 424.90

No info on money factor

I have another quote, but nowhere near this one.

josephd05 · April 2008

Anyone have any predictions for a 2009 pilot Touring model? Sticker probably around 40k. Looking for 3 year, 15K per year lease with only inceptions down.

dwynne · April 2008

Probably be just like the new Accord when it came out - high MF like 0.00255 or so with dealers not discounting off of MSRP to milk the most out of the suckers, I am mean customers, that just have to be the first on the block with the new model.

Looking at the pictures and specs *I* don't see enough to make me want to wait for an 09 - for sure if you live where the cheap lease is still in effect. Getting an 08 Pilot now for down into the hold back, less incentive, with a 1% or less lease compared to getting an 09 for MSRP at over 6% is, to put it mildly, a staggering amount of difference.

I would think the new Pilot is not going to sell any better than the current one, if fact it should be worse given the direction of gas prices. If you wait a few months after launch Honda will probably have to put incentives and cheap leases on them to move them. You may have to be patient, but in car buying the one in the hurry usually pays the most money

.

Dennis

jcgray49 · April 2008

Greetings

It is my understanding that a gentleman named Dennis is the guru of leasing questions. If anyone else has experience with the following question, please feel free to share your experience.

Does American Honda Financial Corporation (AHFC) negotiate on the residual price of a lease buyout IF the vehicle (2006 Pilot EXL-Navi in this case) has an actual book value that is considerably less? My 06 Pilot lease is up in July 2009 and has a residual of $19,200. I believe that price is going to be considerably more than most people would pay considering the skyrocketing fuel prices driving down the SUV market.

I know it's not often that Honda has vehicles that depreciate quicker than normal, but I think the Pilot will and has become one of them.

Regards,
Jeff (Ohio)

bigdadi118 · April 2008

in car buying the one in the hurry usually pays the most money .

This is absolutely correct. I went down 4 times total of 3 different dealerships and I am still searching best deal. Once you are in hurry, they hook the fish, Catch Of The Day. I always begin with email price quotes.

josephd05 · April 2008

Well I would never lease a 2008 Pilot. I'm 6'4", the legroom is not sufficient and no telescopic steering. The 2009 has about 1.5 inches of additional legroom and telescopic steering. Makes a world of a difference when you're my size.

dwynne · April 2008

Not that I am aware of. Most least banks do not negotiate buyout now - they purchase residual value insurance. Under the insurance terms the car has to be auctioned off and then they pay the difference. If they sell it to you at a discount, the insurance does not make up the difference.

Even if AHFC does not take out insurance (and they may not since their leases usually feature artificially high residuals) they don't want to discount the cars. I think they prefer the lessee to lease or buy a new Honda instead of making them a deal on the old one. Also, off lease cars are a good way for dealers to get their hands on low mile, 3 year old cars to CPO and sell. If they have a choice of letting a dealer make profit and leasing you a new Honda OR giving you a better deal they would choose the former - I would think.

I have been told if you want to buy out the Honda through a dealer they will discount it $500 to that dealer so that they can make a little money on the transaction. So it should be easy to find a dealer willing to do the deal for the buy out price (since they make $500). If you were friends with a GM or something at a Honda store maybe they would give you some of the $500? You can also buy it direct from AHFC if you want to.

My 05 S2000 lease ends in a couple of months and I am trying to decide if I want to buy off the lease or turn it in and lease a new 08. The trade value of the car is $2k or so under residual so the auction value is even worse. If I could get a deal I would just keep it, but overpaying for it used does not make much sense when I can get a new 08 priced into hold back with a pretty cheap lease.

All of that said, who knows what will happen in 15 months? If gas is $6 a gallon then you may not want to keep it either. Honda can't sell Pilots when gas was < $3 a gallon so they REALLY will struggle as prices rise - and used ones will not sell for much if new ones carry big incentives (as they do now). So they could offer you a discount to keep you from turning it in or keep financing or both. Historically they do not, but you never know.

That is the nice thing about the lease - they take the chances on future value and not you. If the car held value better than expected (as my 01 S2000 did) then the buy out price is a bargain and you could take it (or sell or trade it for profit). If the car value tanked, you just turn it in a go get something else.

Dennis

dwynne · April 2008

Then just be patient if you want a deal. It may take a bit, but they will have incentives and cheap leases. We looked at an 05 Pilot 3 years ago (we ended up leasing an 05 Accord) and they had big money incentives, cheap leases, and or cheap financing then. While I did not follow prices for the last 3 years, I would guess that there was hardly a month between then and now when they didn't have some help for the dealers on Pilots. So it was no surprise when the Accord lease was ending that we found we could still get a super lease deal on an 08 Pilot

.

They just can't sell Pilots - the current model nor will they be able to sell the new model either. Never have, probably never will be. So for sure cheap deals will follow once the initial sales spurt is over.

Dennis

jetfan · April 2008

car_man: Looking to lease a 2008 Honda Pilot for 3yrs, 12K a year. I have been told that Honda has 1K rebate and/or lease cash available. Can you let me know what the residual & money factor should be for this vehicle. I am pretty sure they quoted me 51% which seems low for a Honda. Also, I am in no rush to lease as my existing lease does not end until June, do you thing better deals will come as the 2009 Pilots arrive next month? Can I expect better lease cash? Same residual? Thanks.

bigdadi118 · April 2008

In the Honda MFG site, you can view the NATIONAL & REGIONAL Special Leasing offers. All the offers on different Honda models are available there.

It allows you to view details & print out a certificate to bring to Honda dealers. This way you don't need to negotiate any, can choose your favorite colors in & out (offer is good for EVERY vehicle under same Model# & MSRP) which is better than specials restricted to 1 to 2 car only on newspaper ad.

Plus saw ad. promotion that a honda dealership advertised guarantee 120% KBB fair value Trade-In, this 120% is about = the Excellent Trade in value, that most dealership won't pay as high as figure in Excellent condition.

Based on my regional offer ($259 vs $279/mo.), ONLY TO RESIDENTS OF: CT, DE, IL, IN, KY, MA, ME, MI, NH, NJ, NY, OH, PA, RI, VT & WV
I just leased 08 AWD VP 3yrs/12K mi at
$259/mo., $2499 due at signing, (1645 cap cost/down, 595 acqu fee, 259 1st payment)

http://automobiles.honda.com/current-offers.aspx?ModelName=Pilot

dwynne · April 2008

It allows you to view details & print out a certificate to bring to Honda dealers. This way you don't need to negotiate any

That is terrible advice. The price listed on the Honda web page "specials" leaves money on the table.

In the details the net cap is $23,442.52 after a $1,645.00 cap cost reduction from the lessee. This makes the non-negotiated price of the Pilot $25087.52 Invoice on an AWD VP is $26,895. There is a $2,500 dealer incentive for sales which you should be able to combine with the cheap lease (in the states where offered) to drop the price to $24,895. Most folks have found dealers willing to deal into the hold back to move a Pilot (out dealer sure did) - which saves you hundreds more.

Like buying a car from CarMax or Saturn the no-haggle deal may be EASY but if you don't mind doing some work the price can be made better.

Dennis

bigdadi118 · April 2008

I took the special AHFC lease 259/mo and the 2,500 maufacturer to dealer incentive has restriction ...
Dealer Cash cannot be combined with select special AHFC lease/purchase plan. See local dealer for details.

If I lease from outside lender it will cost 339/mo
Vehicle 2008 HONDA PILOT 4WD 4dr Wgn VP
MSRP $30,430
Credit Score 730
Miles you drive per year 12,000
Length of Lease (Term) 36 months
Down Payment $1,600
Money Factor 0.00214

Purchase Price $25,088
Bank Acquisition Fee + $795
Documentation Fee + $99
Down Payment - $1,600
Total = $24,382

Monthly Payment $339
Down Payment + $1,600
Due at Signing = $1,939
+ tax and license fees.

swampdragon · April 2008

I did a little better than the manufacturer incentive

$335 a month - that price includes tax - so the untaxed price is 313
$500 down
$263 up front to pay for 3 years of motor vehicle fees
36k miles
36 months

no first months payment
no security deposit - standard
$1500 damage waiver allowance with AHFC - standard

dwynne · April 2008

We leased our Pilot using the money factor and residual set out in the "lease special" but I negotiated a much lower price. As written, the special allows the dealer to make a nice profit.

Dennis

swampdragon · April 2008

so what was that price? - so that others have a number to target - thanks

dwynne · April 2008

It is posted in the form back when we leased it - about $150 or less over dealer cost (invoice less hold back).

Dennis

dougmorris35 · April 2008

I listed a Base Cap cost in a earlier message of $28857. The original quote neglected to include the MF which turns out to be .00243.

I can't get any dealer to get below 31400 without the saying I can either have the 2500 off or the .00043 Money Factor.

A few of the dealers are telling the "deal" ends on 4/30. Whatever the "deal" is.

So is 31400 a fair price on the EXL Nav or can I do better?

Thanks,

bigdadi118 · April 2008

Without the trade-in burden, I can lease Pilot AWD EXL 3-yr/12k per yr. at $0 down, 299/mo ... the best I can find, however that dealer can only offer me 17,000 trade-in

While I leased the Pilot AWD VP at 259/mo., not specailly low, that dealer gave me 20,500 trade-in.

Same car the trade in gap is 3,500 difference. This difference can of course offset quite something.

dwynne · April 2008

You always have to factor a trade into things. When you bargain for the car vehicle you get the price as low as you can, then introduce the trade. The net of the difference will be the best deal.

You should never look at a deal as good or bad based on payments or payments and money down. If you know you have a good price on the new vehicle and if you have a trade get a fair price for it and the lease rate is nice - then you have a good deal. The worse thing anyone can do is to tell a dealer they want to lease and don't want to pay more than $xxx per month. The dealer will find a way to get to that number through high up front money or a LONG lease term - but in any case it will not be a good deal

.

Sounds like got Edmunds or KBB trade in value or above for your trade and got a good price on your new Pilot = good deal.

Dennis

ragecage · May 2008

Looking for advice. Here is my problem:

Have a 2006 Pilot EXL. Currently paying $364/mo. Lease is up 2/09. was a 36K mile cap and I already have 41K on it! I never intended for the mileage to be so high but the wife put over 20K on it the 1st year (one of the reasons she is the soon-to be ex! lol). Anyway, the buyout is like $20K. I have maintained the vehicle mechanically (almost to a fault). Should I buy it out knowing that the mileage penalty could be upwards of $2K or since the prices are coming down, should I take the hit and negotiate another deal. Can't really turn it in early. Any advice would be appreciated. Thx.

swampdragon · May 2008

I am not sure what your choices are since you say you can't turn it in early.

When the lease comes closer to the end you have 4 choices-
Pay the penalty and turn it in
Buy it at the buyout price and keep it
Buy it and sell it privately
Buy it - buy/lease a new vehicle and trade in the 2006 pilot

swampdragon · May 2008

For those who waited to get a better deal leasing I am not sure that they are still there. The regional lease special on the PIlot VP is no longer available.

I am not sure how good the dealers can do on lease prices without that support.

dwynne · May 2008

As swampdragon said, you have several choices and you have to evaluate which one costs you the least money.

Figure it every possible way and see how it stacks up. I assume you have an AHFC lease and the over miles will be at $0.20 each since the MSRP of your EX-L is over $30k. So right now you are looking at $1,000 right now.

1) Park it, pay the rest of the payments, and turn it in next year and pay the penalty. Your cost would be the Payments x months left + penalty on 41k miles, plus insurance and tags (if needed).

2) Drive it, pay the rest of the payments, and turn it in next year and pay the penalty Your cost would be the Payments x months left + penalty on ??k miles plus insurance and tags - but you get use of the Pilot for this time. Set aside the $1k and every month set aside $0.20 per mile driven, then at lease end you have the money in the bank to pay the penalty.

3) Sell it or trade it to a dealer now. Get the current buy out not including tax and try to sell it to CarMax, DriversWay, or any other dealer. Your cost will be the difference between what you can get and the buy out price.

4) Sell it or trade it to a dealer at the end of the lease. Your cost will be the total of the remaining payments plus insurance and tags plus the difference between the buy out at lease end and what you can get a dealer to give you for it. You do get to keep driving it until the lease ends.

5) If you know someone that owns a car dealership, you can get them to help you sell your Pilot to a private party. In most states title can't pass from the lease bank to a third, non dealer, party. This would let you net more for your Pilot than a dealer would give you - but with Honda doing $3,500 incentives and 0.9% and 2.9% financing, this may be a hard sell. In some states (CA, I think) you can buy it, pay tax, then sell it to someone else and get your tax payment back if it is within xx days of when you purchased it. Again, it may be a hard sell with $4 gas and Honda's incentives.

6) Check the back of your lease contract, you may be able to turn it in early - but will have to pay all the remaining payments and the mileage charge. You would save insurance and tags, though. Read this carefully because in some contracts even though you paid all the payments and turned it in they can still come after you for more money. You are out all the money at one time with this method.

No good answer, but you may find that method #3 is your best bet - just get the pain over with now and get rid of the Pilot, insurance, and tags. Otherwise, then maybe #2 would be the way to go. You run the numbers and you decide as it is your money.

Dennis

dwynne · May 2008

Too early to tell as Honda has NO lease deals on any models on their web page. Once they publish the sales numbers for April then I would expect to see either standard or special deals post on their web page for most models.

Will the cheap lease come back? Maybe or maybe not, it just depends on how many Pilots are still on the lots and how badly they want to move them.

Keep in mind that if they do big dealer money and cheap financing they get rid of the Pilot for good, if they give big dealer money and cheap LEASING then they get the Pilot back in years and have to figure out how to sell it all over again. So with a slow mover, they may have to offer cheap leases but they would much prefer it if everyone purchased their Pilot.

Dennis

bigdadi118 · May 2008

They just expired yesterday. I think it will come out again after they ran some numbers, or they already had and awaiting the webmaster to update the site.

dwynne · May 2008

They do this every month - the old deals expire leaving nothing (a void in the deals) then after they look at the sales numbers and inventory levels they release new specials (or just post standard, non-discount lease deals). There can be a few days with nothing, but I would bet the new stuff will be posted before this weekend. The dealers may already have it in hand, so those in the market could contact their salesperson of choice and see what is up.

Dennis

ragecage · May 2008

Thanks all. I neglected to mention that I love the car. Maybe to rephrase the question: Is my buyout number a crappy one if I decide to purchase the car or should I turn it in even w/ the mileage penalty and go for say an accord? I guess it is rubbing me the wrong way to pay 20K for a car that might have almost 50K miles on it... Otherwise the thing is a creampuff, maintained well, and only a few standard shopping cart scratches.

Buying a car is such a hassle and I almost have no time to do it. I am not a huge "car person" and reliability is one of the reasons I stick w/ the Honda. My ex's car is a '98 CRV w/ 180K miles and it runs/looks like new. Again, any input on if buying it out is a good deal knowing the current new/used pilot landscape would be appreciated.

Brian

josephd05 · May 2008

I would be curious to see what the replies are. I am in teh same boat as you, only with a 2006 V8 4runner Limited. I have a friend who wants to buy me out of the lease, and I am at a pace to be over my miles by around 10000, at .15 a mile, it would cost me about 1500 dollars.

dwynne · May 2008

I would just look at what folks with similar Pilots are ASKING for them - check here, cars.com, autotrader.com and ebay. Like I said, you have several choices and should explore them all. If you have a high lease rate it might be cheaper to buy the Pilot now, if you have a cheap rate then buying it at lease end would be less.

If you don't follow the terms of the lease you don't leave yourself any good options, so research what each one will cost you and do whatever saves you the most money. If may come down to overpaying for the Pilot or paying the mileage penalty - if you want to keep it then buy it unless the street value is a ton less than buy out.

Dennis

bigdadi118 · May 2008

Saw one at autotrader 06 Pilot EXL 20,000 miles at price $24,000
Private seller.

Honda Pilot Lease Questions

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