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Honda S2000 Lease Questions
CarMan@Edmunds
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Hi everyone. Please use the following discussion to post any questions that you have about leasing a Honsa S2000. Thanks.
Car_man
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Thanks for the forum.
I'm thinking about leasing a S2000, but am not sure about whether the current deal is a good one. It runs until the end of Oct 3rd.
Closed-end lease for 2005 S2000
MSRP $33,700.00 (includes destination).
Actual net capitalized cost $29,376.41 Taxes, license, title, registration, documentation fees, options and insurance extra.
Total monthly payments $10,764.00. Option to purchase at lease end $19,546.00. Lessee responsible for maintenance, excessive wear/tear and 15/mile over 12,000 miles/year.
$299.00 per month for 36 months with a $2,499.00 capitalized cost reduction. $3,693.00 total due at lease signing (includes first month's payment, security deposit, acquisition fee and capitalized cost reduction; total net capitalized cost and base monthly payment does not include tax, license, registration, options and the like).
I've gone thru the leasing guide and questions, but can't seem to understand the "Actual net capitalized cost". Is that the Lease price? Does it include the $2500 capitalized cost reduction? If so, do you think I can I negotiate the capitalized cost reduction to less?
Thank you so much for your help in understanding this confusing issue.
The phrase "net capitalized cost" means the amount that you are financing on this lease. It is equal to your vehicle's selling price minus any sort od capitalized cost reduction that you make. This means that a net cap cost of $29,376.41 is really equivalent to a selling price of $31875.41, or a discount of $1824.59 off of this car's full MSRP. This deal looks like it is about $1,500 over invoice. If there is a decent level of competition in your area, I would not be surprised if you were able to negotiate a lower selling price than this. For additional feedback on S2000 pricing, make sure to stop by the following discussion: "Honda S2000: Prices Paid & Buying Experience".
Car_man
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The selling price for the car at 31875.41 is way too high. With the new 2006's coming to market in late October...if not sooner, they really want to move the 2005's. I'm getting quoted at $29,250-29,500. I feel that that it is a great price, but probably won't wont get the above money factor. Also, if I don't want to put any money down for the cap reduction (as in $0), they may be less willing to do business.
However, I'm sticking to my guns b/c this would be a total splurge buy. With my fico score at around 800, I'm pretty sure that I would get a good money factor...just not the .00053.
We'll see. Thanks once again for your help.
keep you posted on what the guys at the dealership are saying.
Car_man
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do you know if honda financial will allow zero down with their lease specials?
for instance, the current s2000 requires about $3600 down...which equals to $100 a month for 36 months. will they allow $399 instead of $299 for 36 months?
thank you.
Sometimes the payment is slightly higher than the rolled in amount divided by the term, as you are financing a higher amount... but, you have the general idea correct..
regards,
kyfdx
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thank you.
The advertised downpayment, is just so they can show a low monthly payment..
regards,
kyfdx
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After much research, etc....blah, blah, blah. I am finally pulling the trigger on the S2000.
Just talked to Norm Reeves Honda (apparently #1 dealership in volume in the world - like that really is supposed to impress me). They say that I should be able to get the price of my S2000 to about $360/month + taxes. Essentially they are letting me off the hook with putting all that money up front ($2,499 cap cost reduction). Just rolling in it over into the 36 month lease.
Do I think it is a great deal? Well sure, b/c the acquistion fee is rolled over the 36 months as well and no security deposit. Get a car without very much money down. I'll get in there and see what hidden fee they'll conjure up.
the saga continues....
This monday is when I'll set aside some time and head in there to talk things over. The best part is that I can completely walk away from the deal...Should I? over $20-30 a month when all the other conditions are good?
Car_man
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if i base it on the purchase price of the car at dealer invoice,
how much a month would that be with zero down meaning zero cap reduction? of course taxes, registration would be additional.
-Dave
thanks again.
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I am not an accountant, so I hesitate to comment on the pros and cons of leasing for your specific business. You should consult your accountant to find out what the best way to finance your new vehicles is tax-wise.
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Car_man
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Just for comparison, I BOUGHT my S2k for 28k and my payments are almost the same... You should be able to pick an 05' leftover for about 29k and have your payments be around $500 - 550 per month (60 months) to BUY it.
Sale price: $500 below invoice (invoice is $31,183)
Months: 36
Mileage: 12k/yr
Money factor: .00265
Residual: 57%
Down payment: $2,000
Monthly Payment = $426 + tax
I would preferrably like to pay $0 down and low $400's a month, but it doesn't seem like this is possible.
Also, the $426 after computing these numbers doesn't seem right for some reason.
Can you help me out? Btw im located in SoCal
So my younger brother goes out to lease a S2000 excited about their $299/month $3,693 total due at signing promotion. He was so excited that he signed the papers for $0 down, $445 a month (including NY tax and all that) right there after inquiring about no money down option. He calls me up and asks me to help him pick the car up tomorrow and told me about his "wonderful" deal. However, after reading this forum, it doesn't seem that way. So basically he signed the lease papers and is supposed to pick the car up tomorrow.
My question is, is there any way to "return" the car since he didn't drive it off the lot yet? Someone told me there is a 24 hour or 3 day return law (i live in NY if state laws matter). I just want to be able to negotiate a better price for him.
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My question is, is that too good of a deal to walk away from? Or has anyone heard of these cars actually selling for below invoice, since they are in the last year of a 7 year model run.
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I pay less than that for my lease on the 05 and I put nothing into the lease except first month's payment, IIRC.
I would not not pay so much into a cap cost reduction to lower the payment. Pay the negative equity and maybe the first month's payment and that is about all. In the event of a total loss on the car you insurance will pay off Honda and give you nothing (for your $2,860 out of pocket).
I still would not do a 48 month lease, but that is just me.
Dennis
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I really would like an S2000 but will be the first to admit it is at the top end of my price range with the #'s that I am currently seeing... That being said i do not mind a lightly used car that would afford some better lease payments...Additionally, Swapalease has had some attractive #'s in the 380's that are in my price range, but anything in the high 4's with money down is way too high, and those are the #'s i am seeing right now... Swap a lease is difficult and i havent had much response on their wiht people who are posting their cars (seems very odd to me).
Anyway, the purpose of this message is to see if it u think it is possible to negotiate low 400-low 4's on a lease, or if i could get an 04' or newer on a buy or a lease for 380-420... My research thus far has concluded that other than swapalease this is not really possible... Please let me know what ideas you have for someone in my position (if any).
Thanks
You can lease a used car as long as it is within a few years of new. It will have to be inspected first ($100 or so fee) and may make the payments where you can live with them. You can find your own car, make your best deal, then do the lease via www.leasecompare.com . You can go there now to get lease quotes and see payments. Note that while the cap cost will be less with a used S, the money factor will be a lot more than the Honda promo rate - so your payment may not be that much lower.
Also note that they usually list the base rental on the swap/trade lease sites and in most states you have to add sales tax to the payment. So a $350 a month lease may be $374.50 per month if you live in a 7% tax state.
Dennis
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I'm not sure what the lease payment on an S2000 would be like right now off of the top of my head. Let's crunch some numbers and find out. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2007 Honda S2000 that has an MSRP of $34,845 and a selling price of $31,933 ($500 over invoice) through Honda Finance right now for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year, your zero down, pre-tax monthly payment would be around $469. The payment for otherwise identical 39 and 48 month leases would be around $460 and $431. Unfortunately, once sales tax is added in, you are going to be well over $400 per month for all of these terms.
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Also, is destination charge included on a lease or just a purchase? the Selling Price includes the destination charge.
MSRP: $34,845
Selling Price: $30,500
Money Factor: .0025 (6%)
Residual Value: 52% (based on USAA, I'm finding 57% posted here)
Down: $2000 cash + $1000 from trade-in
Term: 36 Months
Sales Tax: 6.25%
Mileage: 12k/year
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I have the lease quote worksheet in front of me but the sales persons hemed and hawed when I started asking questions about the numbers (numbers are below). I started feeling uneasy so I left. I have a spotless trade-in which I owe $18000 and they offered $16,500 (a full $2000 lower than a car in fair condition according to KBB and various other resources I checked).
MSRP: $34,845
Residual Adds (W): --
Residual Value %: 55% <-- did they rob me here?</i>
Residual Value ($): $19,167.75
Capitalized Cost: $29,995
Term: 36
Lease Money Factor: .00288
Customer Cash Down: $1943.00
Rebates: --
Total Trade (w): $16,500.00
Total Add Caps (w): $774.30 <--- what is that and where did this come from?</i>
Cash Cap Reduction: $1454.96 <--- what is this?</i>
Adjusted Cap Cost: $31,483.03 <--- according to Honda, I had approx $1500 negative equity</i>
Total Sales Tax: $168.69
Base Monthly Rental: $488.04
Security Deposit: $0
Ttl Annual Fes (w): --
ttl Initial Fees (w): --
Amount Due at Start: $1943.00
Ttl Working Cash: $1943.00
One Pay Amount: --
Total Monthly Payment: $488.04
Was I smart to walk away or is this a fair deal, assuming trade-in value truly was fair?
The rate they quote is also over the AHFC rate, but that could have been dealer mark-up (extra profit) OR due to your credit tier. Most likely is that this is not a AHFC lease.
They are having you put down $1,943 - $488.04 of that is the first payment, the other $1,454.96 is the "cash cap reduction" - to reduce the lease amount/lower the payment. The "total add caps" is probably the lease acquisition fee (I think that is $595 for a AHFC lease), title, tags, "doc fee", etc.
Since this does not appear to be an AHFC lease, then the amounts may vary.
Looks like the dealer picked the lease deal that made THEM the most money and not made YOU the best payment.
If you check over at http://www.leasecompare.com they will do the S for about the same residual and for 0.000258 MF (a tier credit). So if you wanted to use them, you just pick a car and make your deal, then they buy the car from the dealer and lease it to you. I have done that a couple of time with them with nice results.
My S lease is at a MUCH lower, captive AHFC rate. Will they do that again? I would say the odds are yes. We are able to buy these cars for less than invoice price because Honda and the dealers can't sell them. So I took advantage of a really cheap MF on my 05 S lease a couple of years back so I could replace my 01 S with a brand new one "for cheap".
If I were you, I would wait and see what AHFC does for lease specials in the next few months while you work on getting the negative equity out of your current car. Then if they run a special you can get a much, much lower payment and in any case will not have to pay anything down nor roll any negative equity into the new car.
I would get the S somehow, I have sure loved mine
Dennis
As for the S, I was estatic to find they were in production for one more year. I'm getting one this year!
I would not mind trading my 05 for a new 07, since mine does not have stability control. If I could get a deal like I got last time, I would. I got the 05 S for under invoice, they gave me what I wanted for my 01 S, and I did the cheap lease deal. If they bring back the cheap lease deal, I will see if I can talk the dealer into giving me the buyout (or more) on the 05 and swap it for an 07
It was sunny and mid-70's 2 days this week and you know I was in the S, top down driving and lunch (for a LONG lunch) and all the way home. My wife and I went driving after work last night for several hours - we had to run the heat a bit after sundown but kept the top down. Sweet stuff. We both like the S (either of them) better than the C5 'vette convertible I had before - which is saying something.
Dennis
If you think about it and you see the lease specials you spoke about, please post something here and I'll continue to monitor this thread... I just really don't want to miss out on a great car or deal.
I looked in my Palm Pilot in my "Lease-It!" saved calculations and the lease special from 2 years ago was 0.00082 MF or 1.968%. Quite a bit lower than the current, non-special, offer.
If you just check the special deals on the Honda cars web page they will have the S2000 special posted - if they have one. Currently, there is nothing.
Dennis