Infiniti M37 M56 Lease Questions

CarMan@Edmunds · August 2005

Hi everyone. Please use the following discussion to post any questions that you have about leasing an Infiniti M35 or M45. Thanks.

Car_man
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dave328 · September 2005

I just signed a lease for a Infiniti M45 with Journey and NAV.

MSRP 52510
Cap cost 48999(invoice + 1000) + 550(acquisition fee) = 49549
Drive off 1131 (first month payment + reg)
42 months
634.95 + 49.21 (7.75 CA tax) = 684.16/mo

I am not sure what the residual is for 42mos, I think 57%. I was supposed to get the base MF of 0.00202. However, by my calculation, it seems a bit off. Did I get the promised MF or was there a last minute adjustment?

Thanks.

kyfdx · September 2005

dave328... I can't get the numbers to come out exactly... But, I don't see a security deposit in your "drive off" numbers. Many leasing companies bump up the money factor slightly, in exchange for waiving the security deposit.

Generally, the bump is either .0001 or .00015... If I add .0001 to your money factor, the payment is less than $1/mo. off of their numbers. My best guess is that is where the discrepancy lies...

regards,
kyfdx
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scrider · September 2005

Car Man - Getting the M35x that I ordered may take 8 to 10 weeks. Do you have a feel for the stability / longevity of the current Infninti lease offer on a 39 month lease with 12K miles:
Money Factor = .00202
RV = 60%
THX

dave328 · September 2005

Thanks kyfdx.

Security deposit is waived for those with tier II credit through Infiniti finance. So the discepency must be from the money factor? Can I assume that they used the 0.00210 MF as opposed to the promised .00202? It's not the few hundred bucks that bugs me. It is the deception that galls me.

This is a wonderful forum, by the way. You and Car man are truely helpful to all of us swimming through the muck. I was told by my dealer that 90% of their sales are leases. There are so many ways to stick it to you by unscrupulous dealers on a lease transaction. Keep up the good work and fight the good fight!

Dave

kyfdx · September 2005

It is hard to say.. I was just giving you a good guess (well, maybe not so good)..

Congratulations on the car!!

regards,
kyfdx

dave328 · September 2005

Thanks! The car is awesome. If I can get through the NAV tome and learn to use it it will be even better!

D

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Hi scrider. Infiniti Financial Services' residual values for the 2006 M35x have already dropped for the month of September. If you were to lease one through IFS right now for 39 months with 12,000 miles per year, its buy rate lease money factor and residual value should be .00194 and 59%, respectively. As you can see, Infiniti dropped this car's money factor slightly to at make up for at least part of the lower residual value. The aforementioned lease program is scheduled to run through September 30th. It is difficult to say what Infiniti's October lease program for this car will be like, but if I had to make an educated guess I would say that it will either be about the same or have a slightly lower money factors to make up for another one point drop in residual values.

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dave328 · September 2005

I pointed out the discrepency to the dealer and they rectified it to my satisfaction.

Here is the rewritten final deal:

MSRP 52,510
CAP COST 49660 (1K over invoice plus 550 acquisition fee minus 33.54 cap reduction[long story])
42mos
610.06 + 47.28tax = 657.34/mo
MF 0.00205 (I was shown their finance sheet to confirm that this is the base MF for 42 mos)
Residual 59% (This is according to my calculations)

I'm happy with the deal. Aside from a couple of attempts at padding the MF, it was pretty straight forward. This was in Orange County, so. Cal.

For those who are newbies venturing into the dark and foggy lease-land, I have a couple of pointers.

Hammer out the cap cost. This is one of two key negotiation points. For me felt I would be happy with 1k over invoice and so I made that offer and it was accepted without haggling. Don't negotiate on the monthly amount, the dealer with throw out an irrelevant number and do all sorts of crazy stuff.

Find out the base money factor for the term of the lease. It seems to vary slightly depending on the length. Have the dealer commit to the rate, in writing if possible.

Find out the residual for the term of the lease. This is set and non-negotiable. This does vary slightly among different banks but if you ar going through the manufacturer's lease program, it is set.

There is a sweet spot for the monthly payment. For the M45 it is 42 mos. The monthly payment is approx $50 less for the 42 mos compared with 36 mos. I don't think I'll have any problems keeping the car for another 6 mos, so I was happy to do it.

Have the dealer e-mail you the exact terms for the lease, including the MF and cap cost, before you go in to sign the papers and cross check with your own calculation using the edmunds calc. Or you can use this site:

http://www.leaseguide.com/calc.htm

It is a little simpler to use than the edmunds site.

If you find a discepency, point it out nicely. I think most high end dealer will play nice but they might need a bit of nudging.

Pretty simple, you just have to keep your eyes open and know your numbers.

Dave

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Thanks for taking the time to share the details of your deal and sound advice with everyone Dave.

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dave328 · September 2005

My pleasure! And thank you for all your help.

Dave

gdukes1 · September 2005

I have always purchased cars, but because of mileage usage and how often I like to change vehicles, I have decided to lease for the first time ever. I am definitely going for the new M35, as I have always been a fan and owner of Infiniti vehicles since 1993. However I have one question that I can't seem to find a definitive answer to, and with the only Infiniti dealership in MS being my only option I want to go in with all the information.

If anyone wouldn't mind helping, I wanted to know if the residual value percentage is calculated using the MSRP or the adjusted capitalized cost negotiated??? Also I will be using the VPP program so I know I won't be paying MSRP before I even enter the door. I would really appreciate any help.

Thanks in advance.
:confuse:

cluedweasel · September 2005

The residual is calculated on the list price of the vehicle, not the negotiate price. A couple of years ago I leased the old version of the M45. I got $10,000 off the sticker price so the amount I was "financing" was only around $12000 on a $47000 car.

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

You're very welcome Dave.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Welcome gdukes1. Since you are new to the world of leasing, you definitely should check out the following informative articles that are available here at Edmunds.com prior to visiting any dealers: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car and Calculate Your Own Lease Payment.

In answer to your specific question, vehicles' residual values are always based upon a percentage of their full MSRPs including the destination charge plus the MSRPs of any options that can be residualized. The fact that you can purchase your car through the VPP program is a good thing, especially given the lack of Infiniti dealers in your area.

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gdukes1975 · September 2005

Thanks cluedweasel and Car_man for the information. I am going to test drive and get more information from the dealership Friday. Do y'all have any tips for negotiating the best RV% and MF, with only one dealership in a 200 mile radius?

540dude · September 2005

After reading that someone just got a M45 for $1K over invoice at Winner Inifiniti in Wilmington, DE, I went to my local dealer (in the NYC metro area--which I won't identify out of caution and deference to the dealer) and offered 1K over invoice for an ordered M45, which the dealer immediately accepted. I told the dealer that if they did not match, I would not hesitate to get the car from Winner Infiniti at 1K over invoice given that such a savings is well worth the 1 1/2 hour drive from NYC. Had the local dealer not accepted, I would have indeed called Winner and ordered the car from them. Although I live in NYC, I have sometimes leased cars from dealers in Central Pennsylvania to save big bucks.

The details of the car I have negotiated for is:

1. M45 Sport with the following options and color combination:

U03 (Tech Package with Sirius)
J02 (Journey Package Sport)
W01 (Wood trim)
P93 (Rear Deck Spoiler)
B94 (Painted Splash Guards)
T92 (Trunk Mat with space saver tire)
Exterior color: liquid platinum (the bright silver)
Interor leather color: graphite (the black leather)

Total capitalized cost of the lease is $53,292 ($1,000 over invoice including the destination charge). (MSRP is $57,200).

The lease is for 18,000 miles per year, 39 month term. Zero cap cost reduction. $1500 drive off costs (security deposit, first month payments, doc and title fees)

The monthly payment is:

$736.25 with sales tax rolled in.
$669.39 with taxes up front.

The money factor is .001570 (equivalent to 3.768% APR)
The residual is $33,139.70 (about 58%)

What do you think of this proposed deal? Having leased many cars, I think this is a good deal but your opinions are welcome.

dave328 · September 2005

540 dude,

That seems like a great deal. My lease numbers are posted above and yours seems pretty similar. The MF is significantly lower than mine but that is probably to offset the lower RV. One thing to consider is looking at the 42mo lease. My monthly payment was about $50 lower than 36 mos. I chose the non-sport M45 because the ride on the sport seemed a tad harsh and loud but I sure do like the look with the sport wheels. Take the plunge, you won't regret it. Its a fine car.

Dave

dave328 · September 2005

540dude,

One more thing. It is my understanding that you don't need to put down a security deposit for Infiniti Finance if you have good credit. On the other hand, it might be worthwhile for you to look into putting down multiple security deposits(MSD) if Infinity finance allows it. I was going to ask the dealer about it but in all the excitement it slipped my mind. Good luck.

Dave

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

You're welcome gdukes1975. Individual dealers do not have the authority to alter banks' residual values so you should be fine with that aspect of your deal. As far as the money factor goes, the fact that you know what your car's buy rate is will go a long ways in your attempt to make sure that it is used to calculate your vehicle's monthly payment. Even though this Infiniti dealer appears to be the only game in town for this particular car, there are lots of other brands out there. You can always give this dealer the impression that you will purchase a different vehicle if they do not use the buy rate to calculate your payment.

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CarMan@Edmunds · September 2005

Hi 540dude. I can't calculate a sample lease payment on it without knowing its full MSRP, but the other aspects of your deal look good. You got it for an attractive selling price and the money factor that was used to calculate your monthly payment is in line with Infiniti Financial Services buy rate. If you like the car, I don't see any reason not to pull the trigger on this deal.

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540dude · September 2005

Thanks Carman.

The full MSPR was $57,340.

Still a good deal?

I think so.

gdukes1975 · September 2005

Once again, thanks for the information Car_man. This help has been invaluable. I have one more question though. I got a quote from the dealership giving me a MF of 3.48 for a 42 month lease on the M35. Does this mean that it will be .00348?

If so, that seems monstrously high. They never said %, they just left a message saying the MF=3.48 with IFS for the vehicle I requested. I haven't called back because I am in no hurry to buy, and I don't want to go in without all the aces up my sleeve.

Once again, this forum is amazing. I just wish I would have used it when I bought my '99 Q45.

baimer8 · September 2005

I don't have the full details yet. I ordered an M45 Sport, fully loaded:
Diamond Graphite
Bourbon Interior
Wood Trim
Journey Package
Tech Package/XM
Full Aero Package (Body Kit)

MSRP $60,250

Here is what I am getting:
24 mos. lease
$1906 down
$823.21/month (tax included)
15k miles/yr

How does this sound?

540dude · September 2005

You need more information as this sounds too high.

What is the selling price (total capitalized cost of the lease).

What is the money factor?

What is the residual?

Look at my deal above. $733 per month with New York City and state taxes (of 8.625%) rolled in for 18K per year. $1K above invoice. I paid NO cap cost reduction (down payment). The only option that you are getting that I did not was the full aero kit (I just got the rear spoiler). Also, are you getting the rear DVD player?

With all due respect, I think you are getting ripped off.

baimer8 · September 2005

Really, you think so?!?! Even with only a 24 mos. lease? I actually got these #'s from a car broker and the dealer is matching it. At the time, 2 mos. ago when I got this quote when I ordered the car, the dealer was shocked at the #'s that I was being quoted.

I'll try and find out some more info on the other questions.

howard4 · September 2005

Read elsehwere in section that Oct MF may go down slightly to make up for lower RV. Quoted .00186 MF for 36 mos 61% RV vs .00198 for 39 mos 60% RV. Haven't finalized options and cap cost but in terms of numbers how do these currently look and any guess for October? Thanks.

540dude · September 2005

The first rule of leasing is never negotiate to a monthly payment. That is a classic dealer trap. You must know the following:

What is the selling price (total capitalized cost of the lease).

What is the money factor?

What is the residual?

These 3 factors will dictate what the monthly payment is. My gut tells me that, based on your numbers, you are not getting a very good deal, but to really evalulate if you are or are not, you need to know those 3 items of information.

I negotiated my lease using these 3 key factors of a lease -- not by asking the dealer to meet a monthly payment target. Having a monthly payment target that you tell the dealer could result in the dealer marking up the money factor or the selling price beyond the base money factor and the lower price above invoice that the dealer would sell the car for, resulting in a windfall for the dealer and in you getting the shaft.

ezefla · September 2005

I just leased the following

M45 Sport
Diamond Graphite
Graphite Interior
Metal Trim
Journey Package
Tech Package/XM
Full Size Spare
Full Size Trunk Mats
Splash Guards
Rear Spolier

MSRP $57310
CAP $53285
Down $2000
12k Miles
39 Months
Resid 59%
MFact .00167

$682 (includes tax)

They had to swap it from another dealer across the state.
Got the Road Hazzard from list of $330 to half ($165)

How does this sound?

gs455 · October 2005

Can any of our Hosts provide us with October IFS residual values and Money factors for both the M35 Sport and M45 Sport? Thanks

baimer8 · October 2005

What state are you in?

gs455 · October 2005

South Carolina

mz35 · October 2005

does anyone know what this is? after the deprec on my lease paper is a space for a rent charge where thet added another $5k. I don't care how they worked out the numbers, I think i got a good deal.
m35x, journey, sirius for $650.58 w/15k for 39 months with PA tax (9%) included with first, bank and doc fees up front($1400)
mf was.00202

kyfdx · October 2005

The "rent charge" is the finance portion of the lease..

(money factor) X (cap cost + residual) = monthly rent charge

(Monthly rent charge) X (term of lease) = total rent charge

regards,
kyfdx
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gs455 · October 2005

To kyfdx and/or Car Man:
Can you post the Money Factor and residual values for October, from Infiniti Financial Services (IFS)? I'd like them for the M35 Sport and M45 Sport.
In the event it matters, I am in South Carolina. Thanks for your help.

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2005

You're welcome 540dude. Yes, this looks like a good deal to me.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2005

Once again you're welcome, gdukes1975

. I doubt that the salesperson who you spoke with meant that this car has a money factor of .00348. You're right that is an outrageously high factor. Most likely they meant that this car's money factor is equivalent to an interest rate of around 3.48%. This would mean that they are using a factor of around .00145.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2005

Hi baimer8. You never mentioned the selling price of the car that you are interested in leasing. This is an important number for you as a consumer to know for two reasons. First, the selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash for them. Without knowing the price of the car that you want to lease you don't know how good a price you are getting it for. The second reason is that one needs the selling price of a vehicle that they want to lease is that it is necessary to calculate its lease payment. I would be more than happy to work give you my opinion on this deal if you let us know what the selling price is.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2005

Hello howard4. I would be happy to give you an idea of what the new October lease program is like for the vehicle that you are interested in, however you never mentioned exactly what it is, an '06 M35 AWD, M35 Sport, M45, etc... If you let me know exactly what model you want and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive it I will let you know what its lease program is like.

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milsey2 · October 2005

I just was quoted 3K down and $549 a month for a 36 month sport RWD with 15K per year. This is without tech. package - just journey 1. Is this average, good or great? 2. How much less do you think I could get this if I chose the regular sedan and not the sport? 3. How much do you think prices will soften up in the next 4-5 months when my present Infiniti lease will be up? Right now there is no discount for loyalty like there is for Lexus. Thank you.

sam_k · October 2005

Car_man, I'd like to know what the money factor and residual percentage is on a 10K or 12K miles/year, 36 month lease of a M35 Sport with Journey Package (sport) and Technology Package. I'm not sure if it matters but I'm located in the NYC area. Thanks in advance.

howard4 · October 2005

06 M35 or 06 M35 Sport 15K/yr - Thanks.

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2005

Hi ezefla. The money factor that was used to calculate your car's lease payment is right in line with Infiniti's buy rate factor for this model. This is a good sign because it means that the dealer that you leased your car from did not mark-up your car's factor to add additional back-end profit to your deal. As far as the other negotiable aspect of your deal goes, the selling price, you were given a $2,000 discount on a car that typically has a $4,000 spread between its full MSRP and dealer invoice. I am not personally all that familiar with what the market is like for the '06 M45 Sport in your area right now, but under normal circumstances I would not be surprised if one was able to get this car for $500 to $1,000 less. The fact that you had your dealer swap with a distant dealer for this car definitely hurt your bargaining position and makes your deal more attractive than it would have been had you just leased a car that was in dealer stock. For additional feedback on how much M45s are selling for right now, stop by the following discussion: "Infiniti M35/M45: Prices Paid & Buying Experience".

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2005

I would be happy to give you an idea of what these cars' lease programs are currently like, gs455. However, in order for me to do so I need you to tell me how long you want to lease them for and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive them.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2005

Greetings milsey2. I would be happy to give you my opinion on this deal, however you never mentioned the selling price or MSRP of the car that you are interested in leasing. These are important numbers for you as a consumer to know for two reasons. First, the selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash for them. Without knowing this car's selling price in relation to its MSRP you don't know how much of a discount you are getting on it. The second reason is that one needs the selling price and MSRP, including the destination charge, of a vehicle to calculate its lease payment. Let me know these numbers and I will let you know what I think.

If you still have four or five months left on your current lease, I do not see any reason to break it now to get into this car. Infiniti's lease program for the M35 will probably be just as attractive several months from now as it is today. Breaking your current lease now just forces you to pay for several months worth of a car that you won't use.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2005

Here's the information that you are looking for sam_k. If you were to lease a 2006 Infiniti M35 Sport through Infiniti Financial Services right now for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year, its buy rate lease money factor and residual value should be .00180 and 59%, respectively. The money factor for an otherwise identical lease with 10,000 miles per year would be the same, but the residual value would increase to 60%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2005

Thanks for the additional information howard4. OK, if you were to lease a 2006 Infiniti M35 through Infiniti Financial Services right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its buy rate lease money factor and residual value should be .00202 and 61%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of a 2006 Infiniti M35 Sport should be .00180 and 59%.

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540dude · October 2005

As I have stated before, a M45 Sport in New Jersey can be had for $1K above invoice. Someone on this board also got $1K over invoice from Winner Infiniti in Delaware. You can get this too so I would not accept the selling price offered by your dealer. In fact, in my negotiations, I found that citing to the prices gotten by other on this board at specific dealers was extremely effective in getting my price down to $1K over invoice without any real negotiation. Of course, I did order my car.

bhavinpa · October 2005

Car_man,

I am interested in leasing the M35 sport w/ Touring + DVD Navi options (MSRP $47790).
I have read that the october buy lease rate MF is 0.0018 and RV of 59% for 39 month 15,000 mile/per lease. What would the MF & RV for a 39 month 18,000 mile per year lease be?
What would my monthly payment be with the new numbers?
In So California, the tax rate in my area is 8.25%

Thanks,
Bhavin

michifan · October 2005

I've already negotiated the price (400 over Invoice) for a 2006 M35x w/Tech and Journey. Car to arrive in the next two weeks and I filled out the Credit App in September to 'lock' in the lower of the Sept/October rates.

What would be the MF/RV for a 12 and 15K lease w/39 months in Minneapolis? I have told the dealer I wanted IFS rates (and they've agreed) but I'd like to hear what you know is correct before I walk into the dealer (I've been traveling out of the country for the past few weeks).

ahsim · October 2005

I am in a similar situation getting M35x with Tech and Journey. What would be a reasonable profit for a dealer for this car in New York?
Assuming $1000 over an invoice, 39 month lease with 10k per year and all taxes /8.625%/ up front please help me to come up with a monthly payment and total amount on a delivery

Infiniti M37 M56 Lease Questions

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