2013 and earlier Lexus RX 350 / RX 450h Lease Questions

logic_3 · November 2010

@Car_man Looks this over and let me know what you think. Was I off anywhere or did I hit a good deal right on the head?

@valenkav We also were shopping at Meade in Southfield. I went ahead and closed the deal on Saturday with them. Im posting all the specifics of my deal to help my fellow car buyers. One of the issues I ran into when planning out my negotiation was that I could not get exact invoice info from Edmunds as some options were not listed. So here is the pricing on the car. The first price is MSRP, the second is Invoice:

*denotes options that are not listed in Edmunds TMV Report
RX 350 AWD Base $39,375
Dealer Holdback: 787.50 (2% Base MSRP)

Comfort Pkg.: $1,950 $1,560
Cargo Spider Net: $49 $29*
12-Spker Prem Audio Sys: $110 $88
Navigation: $2,465 $2,085
Intuitive Parking: $500 $400
Premium Pkg: $2,400 $2,028
Towing Prep Pkg: $238 $190
Remote Start: $375 $225*
Wood & Leather Steering: $330 $264
Accy Pkg: $242 $148*
Paint Protect: $429 $259*
Cross Bars: $259 $168*
---Total Options: $9,347
Delivery: $875

Total MSRP: $49,597
Total Invoice: $44,641

Dealer initial sales price offer: $46,199.82
Initial lease payment: $646.34 for 36/mth, 15k miles (.00150 mf, 57% residual)

Edmunds TMV: $45,527 (roughly as not all options are included. Missing $1,354 MSRP, $829 Invoice *.)

My counter offer: $45,533.82 (2% over invoice)
Final lease payment: $638.02 for 36mth/19k miles (.00078 mf, 57% residual, .20 mile over 15k, includes 6% sales tax - $601.90)

-Side Note: Payment would have been $625.66/mth for 36mths/15k. Adding the extra 4k miles a year raised the lease to $692.51/mth. We brought down the mf to .00078 (orig. mf for Dec. is .00150) using multiple MSDs to arrive at the final lease rate of $646.34/mth. In order to adjust for mileage over 15k, multiple the additional miles by $.20 and subtract that from the residual value in your lease calculation. That will adjust your lease payment figures accordingly. So for us, the addition 12,000 miles over the term of the lease is costing us $2,400. That was subtract from the 57% residual value taking the residual down to $25,870.29.

Dealer Profit off sale: $1,680.32 (hold back + $ over invoice. May be more if I missed including something.)

Even though Car_man was not able to respond to my post prior to me pulling the trigger, I was able to pull out enough information by reading over the forum from back to Jan., to go in the door fully loaded to get a good deal. I also called Lansing and Ann Arbor dealers to bounce numbers of them to see if they would bite. I told Lansing I had a deal between $44,000 and $45,000 on a fully loaded RX350. The guy flat out told me he could not beat it. I called Ann Arbor and gave them the dealer initial offer price and the sales rep told me he could beat it by $1,000. A buddy of mine that use to sell cars in Lansing and Detroit previously told me that when he sold cars, he would take 2% deals all day. I usually shoot for invoice price first but since my mother-in-law was itching to buy and TMV was above invoice, I needed a no fuse situation.

I had her call them on the phone the day of and told them we would purchase today at 2% over invoice. The sales rep tried explaining how good a deal she was already getting and put her on hold to talk with sales manager. She came back saying she was not sure but how soon could we come in. We told them 15 minutes. Went in the door at the dealer and whipped out my laptop like I had did the day before and gave them the 2% over invoice offer. She came back after talking with manager and asked if we could do 3%. Told her 2%. She came back again and asked if we could split the difference. Told her 2% and to hurry up or it was going to be 1% in 10 minutes. Manager came over and asked if he did 2% could we close the deal that day. Told him yes. He shook our hands and said he appreciated being upfront and to the point. Fine, 2% it is. Had them run a few mileage scenarios and double checked all their numbers using my Excel spreadsheet. We settled on 36/19k. They completed the paperwork and everything was in order. We worked with Karen (Sales Rep), Doug (Sales Mgr) and Laura (Business Mgr.). They were all great and treated us well. Overall the dealership did give me the impression that they are true to what the sales person was pitching, and that is that they care about their relationship with their customers and have good service when it comes to using their service department and the little things like free loaners, etc. I would recommend them to others.

Thank you to all that participate on this site. Edmunds and its forum members to date have helped my purchase a 2010 BMW 535ix, 2011 Nissan Altima 3.5 SR and a 2011 Lexus RX 350 AWD all fully loaded, and have received better than average deals each time. The following are the steps that I recommend to anyone who wants to maximize their dollar and not pay too much for a car:

1) Read the website Beat the Car Salesman Car Buyers School. The site is totally free and has all the information you need: http://beatthecarsalesman.com/school/

2) Figure out what the dealer holdback is for your model car: http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incentives/holdback/index.html This will help you understand how low a dealer is willing to go.

3) Use the manufacture website to build the car that you want. Build it several times playing with the different options until you figure out the options that meet the price you want.

4) Then use Edmunds TMV Pricing system to get the invoice numbers on the exact same car you built.

5) Read back the last 3 months of at least the following two Edmunds forums for the model car you are researching: Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences and Lease Questions.

6) If doing a lease, create your own lease calculator Excel spreadsheet using the formula here: http://www.edmunds.com/advice/leasing/articles/48365/article.html . If purchasing and not leasing, create a loan calculator Excel spreadsheet to help you figure out your loans and payments.

7) Go to the dealerships and do your test drives to help you narrow down what you are looking to buy. Document the car and options that you want. Get the dealer stock # if they have the car you are interested in. Let the sales person give you their initial offer and leave. Dont talk any numbers with them at all. Go back home and look up the car with the options and get the TMV for the actual car you settled on. Also run the lease or loan calculator on the actual car you settled on at the sales price they offered. Then run the same numbers for invoice price and again for the Edmunds TMV price. Decide on a price that you are not willing to pay any higher than. (I would recommend 2% or TMV, whichever is lower.) Compare your initial offers also to help determine which dealer is mos

logic_3 · November 2010

most reasonable.

8) Determine if there are any incentives going on for the car you want. If so, remember that you use those on top of your offer. So if your offer is going to be $40,000 and there is a $2,000 rebate, your offer the dealer $40,000 and then remind them that they apply the rebate after the 40k, so you actually are paying $38,000. Dealers often will try and use the rebate for themselves by selling the car for 42k and then giving you 2k off to get the price to 40k.

9) You are in the strongest position when you show up at the dealership with the checkbook ready to buy! Once you have all your finances in order and are ready to buy, go to the dealer you decided to work with (Best times to go is a few days before the end of the month or the weekend before the end of the month). Make them an offer at invoice. They will most likely act like you are trying to rob them but stay firm. If the car is in high demand, you may have to come up on your offer a little. But dont go over your limit and only up your offer a little at a time (ie. $100). If the car is in low demand, you have a stronger position so stay firm. If they are not budging for numbers over your limit, remind them that you have other options on the table with other dealers but you are giving them the first right of refusal. I also remind them I am ready to buy right now. That is usually enough to get them to see things my way. If they continue to play hardball, get up, thank them for their time and leave. They usually stop you before you get to the door.

10) KNOW YOUR MATH. Double check the final numbers you settle on with the dealer. Run them through your calculators right there on the spot. If something seems off, then they may be adding something on the backend. If it does not make sense, ask questions. If you get the sense of some shady business, than it probably is, so leave and take your business else were. TAKE YOUR TIME AND READ ALL YOUR PAPERWORK line by line. Ask questions about anything you dont understand. Make sure you have GAP insurance or your insurance policy covers the fully financed amount. I recommend not purchasing any of the extras they want to sell you while youre in the finance office. If you want an extended warranty, I would go with the manufactures warranty program but I would buy it only at dealer cost and only if the warranty will expire before the end of the lease. You usually can get an extended warranty at any time before the initial warranty is up or at least before the end of the first year of the initial warranty period. You also can find dealers on the web that will sell them at cost because they still make money on them. Lastly if you are uncomfortable about anything at any time, ask questions. Remember once you sign, you are on the hook for the deal for the next couple of years.

I hope all find this helpful.

@valenkav If you need to get below $650mth on a lease, try to get the car at invoice. If I would have paid invoice on this RX, payment on a 36/15 would have been $597.96 after tax. I dont think they will do it as these station wagons are in demand so they may not budget. But then again it is the end of the month, so you never know. I highly doubt you would get a 2011 for under invoice right now and there are no 2010s in Michigan.

socaljd · November 2010

Overall excellent write-up logic_3 !

- One thing, are you sure holdback is calculated on base MSRP, or is it calculated on total MSRP (less dest charge) ? Dealers might be making a few more bucks here.

- Also Lexus/Toyota charges dealers for regional advertising, so all those 'december to remember' commercials you see on TV do have a cost, I believe my TDA (Toyota Dealers Advertising) fee for my 2010 RX was $500 - again a true cost to dealers.

- If you cannot find your car's total retail/invoice cost on Edmunds, I cross check with KBB, they tend to have all the available options listed, altho Edmunds' TMV is far more reliable than KBB's market price.

- There is also a term called 'pack' which is a financial incentive given back to dealers when they sell a car off the lot (similar to holdback). I believe if a dealer moves a car within 90 days, the pack covers their carrying costs for that car. So if a car sits on the lot longer than 90 days, it costs the dealers more. A dealer should be highly motivated to move a specific car before it reaches 90 days (if you can determine the build date - Lexus puts this on the sticker on the driverside door jamb)

- And to add to logic_3's timing, dealers get incentives/bonuses to reach quarterly & yearly quotas - so a great time to buy is right before the end of a quarter or calendar year. I find that Lexus dealers will make fantastic deals on Dec 30 or 31, since their annual sales volume determines their allotments for the coming year.

Again, great write-up logic_3/

valenkav · December 2010

Hi,
Thank you for sharing your leasing experience in Michigan and excellent job you have done in calculation of payments. I am looking for pkg incl. CP,PM,NV,PA,WU,EK,TO (MSRP $48,243). Invoice is confusing. Based on
www.truecar.com Invoice is $43,823, incl.$700 regional ad fee.Dealer Cost is $43,036. If I use last number, 2% over is $43,896.72 or $43,900 after round up.
My monthly will looks like $589.35 using Resid.61% & MF .0021 for 36/10k lse.
What about Dec. to Rem. incentive? Meady of Lakeside mentioned $1,200.
Ann Arbor of Lexus dealer mentioned high $400 to low $500 as my monthly.
You suggested 2%, 1% over Invoice, even Invoice. How practicle is it? Will dealers except Invoice when RX is in demand? Take care. Val.

logic_3 · December 2010

Thanks socaljd, glad I learned a few things over the last couple of car purcahses I made.

To answer your question on holdback, per Edmunds (http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incentives/holdback/index.html), Lexus hold back is 2% base MSRP.

Thanks for the insight regarding additional dealer cost. I was unaware of that. I try not to get too caught up in what the dealer is making on a deal (cause they have to eat and keep the lights on too), but I do like to know so I can get a feel of what the other side of the table is thinking. Knowing their cost or profit gives you a bit of a guide as to how much they really can budge on a price. Thanks for the info on 'pack'. I did not know about that. I will definitely keep an eye out for that on my next purchase.

logic_3 · December 2010

Val, I ran the numbers you gave and came up with the same $589 payment. I don't know the initials of all the packages you mention, so I am not sure exactly what the car you are looking at has. But if you can't figure out exactly what the invoice price is, here is another trick I picked up. Just take 10% off total MSRP on the window sticker. You will have the invoice price, give or take $100. So here is a few scenarios for you using the following numbers:

MF= .0021, Residual= 61%
MSRP $48,243
Purchase Price 1: $43,418.72 (Invoice Price Guess of MRSP-10%)
Purchase Price 2: $44,287.09 (2% over Invoice Guess)

P1 gets you a mthly payment after tax of $574.10
P2 gets you a mthly payment after tax of $601.60

@ MF .0015 (This is the Dec. to remember rate for Tier 1 credit)
P1 gets you $527.77
P2 gets you $554.72

So yes Val, I suggest as little as invoice to offer! ;-) Dont be scared to play hardball. And dont be afraid that they will say no, because they will. In fact, they will say no several times. The sales person, the sales manager, etc. will tell you stories of how they cant pay the bills at that price, how their kids are going to go hungry at that price, how there is no way on Earth they could sell the car for that price, etc. STAND FIRM I SAY! So what the car is in demand, you are in a strong position. In fact, if you wait until Dec. 31st to go in to buy, you will be in the perfect position. As socaljd just said, not only is it the end of the quarter, but its the end of the year! If they have 20 RXs on the lot, they want them to gone. I know you can get a deal at just 2% over invoice, I just proved it last weekend. But what I would like to see you do is get yours at invoice and you can do it given the timing.

Are you sure on your money factor? Dont forget as shown above, the Dec. MF is .00150 makes payments better. If your credit is Tier 1 but youre getting a different MF, then they may be trying to add points to your lease. If youre not Tier 1, Car_man may be able to let you know what the MF is for other tiers is. I would just confirm you have the correct MF from an independent source that is not a dealer.

If youre not the hardball type, then take a family member with you that is Or just take friend for support. But set your game plan before you go in and stick to it. If I were you, I would go in the weekend before the 31st and make an offer at invoice, telling them you are ready to buy that day. They will give you a counter offer, say no. They will ask you to split the difference, say no. When they come back the 3rd time, asking for more money, say thank you and tell them you are on your way to the other dealer that will do it but you stopped at their place first because their closer. Guaranteed they will stop you at the door or call your cell as you are driving away. If they dont thats ok, because they will call. I would make verbal offers over the phone to the dealers that are further away. One of them will call you back before the 31st.

Lastly, I dont think I mentioned this in my long post, but I am avidly against putting money down (cap cost reduction). Dont do it. Take advantaged of multiple security deposits(learned about this when doing a BMW lease). With Lexus, you can do 9 total. They will reduce your money factor down by .00008 each. Plus you get the money back at the end of the lease.

valenkav · December 2010

Thank you again, logic_3!
Do I need to tell you how much I already learned from your math and tricks?
If I use some of them I'll save something. My situation is: RX with opts
looks Comf.$1,950/$1,560 (msrp/inv), Prem.$2,400/$2,028,Nav.$2,465/$2,085,
WU $330/$264, PA $500/$400, EK $110/$88, TO $238/$190 &
Accy.Pkg $242/$148. Final numbers: MSRP=$48,485, Invoice=$43,271.
Using MF=.0015 (Dec.-to-Remb), which is close enough to $1,200 rebate as one dealer told me recently, and RV=61%, I have following monthly pmts.
P1 offer $43,271 (inv) = $519.07 (tx incl);
P2 $44,136 (2% over inv) = $545.91;
P3 $43,703 (1% over inv) = $532.48;
P4 $43,900 or $44,000 = $540.
I feel a little bit more comfortable with P4 (but can start from P3).
Take care, Val.

9923476 · December 2010

Just thought I would post a number for those searching for a price on the RX 450h..I just purchased one in SoCal the last day of Nov....Had to wait until that day to get dealer to sell it to me at the price I wanted....I went to 5 other dealerships and ended up with this one.

2010 450H with Comfort and Premium packages, nav, and parking assist.
Lease/Sell price was 43,500. Payment is $630 including tax, lic, and all fees...The only out of pocket was $300.00, for 3 years, 12k a year.

Hope it helps someone and I hope I did well

andallthatjazz · December 2010

What was the list price? Also, are you saying it was nothing down for that monthly payment? We are in the market for a second 450h, also in SoCal. Thanks!

9923476 · December 2010

51k was the sticker....that is the typical 450h you find on the Lexus lots in LA SoCal...the next version up is the 55 with heads up display....I had to work hard to get it at that price and had to wait to the last day of the month. No one wanted to budge on that price till the last day. Hope it helps

valenkav · December 2010

Need an information regarding lease of 2011 RX350 AWD 36/10K, or 48/10K.
Looking for MF,RV for loaded SUV (no TV). Thanks in advance.

vrits · December 2010

Car_man,

Do you have the December 2010 residual and MF for a 2011 RX350 AWD lease for 36 months, 12k miles per year, with Dec to remember event.

Thank you.

CarMan@Edmunds · December 2010

I'd be happy to help you out, i-SpY.

Lexus Financial Services' December buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 24 month lease of a 2011 RX 350 AWD with 10,000 miles per year are .00170 and 67%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its top aka "Tier 1+" credit tier.

The numbers for an otherwise identical 36 month lease are .00170 and 60%.

The 24 month numbers for the '10 model are .00210 and 64%. Its 36 month numbers are .00210 and 57%.

Yes, it does appear as though the lease programs for the AWD and FWD models are the same.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2010

Greetings lexusmonkey. Lexus Financial Services' December buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 48 month lease of a 2011 RX 350 AWD with 12,000 miles per year are .00170 and 50%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its top aka "Tier 1+" credit tier.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2010

Hi vrits. I just posted this information two messages ago. Please check there. Thanks.

Car_man
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vrits · December 2010

Thanks Car_man, that shows only 10k.
How will 12K miles a year affect MF and residual for December, please advise.

ssuman · December 2010

What is the residual on your lease? I am in SO CAL and in the market to lease a 2010 RX450H. Thanks in advance.

CarMan@Edmunds · December 2010

No problem, vrits. LFS' 10,000 mile per year residual values are 1% higher than its 12,000 mile per year residuals.

Car_man
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beachlady80 · December 2010

Carman, Can I have the rates for the December to remember MF and residual for RX350 FWD 36 months with 15k and 48 with 15k. Thanks!!!

cartman13 · December 2010

Hi Car_man,

I think you said the 2011 RX450h AWD had a MF of .0015 for this event earlier. is that right?

I didn't see any residuals for it though. could you provide those if different than the RX350? 10k miles.

TIA

dulnev · December 2010

Car_Man, please provide the current residual and money factor for the 2011 RX450h AWD for a 36 month 12K miles lease. Thank you!

beachlady80 · December 2010

Getting ready to buy today! I ve looked all over the forum. I need Residual and MF for RX350 RWD for 36 months - 15k and 48 months 15k
Any help would be greatly appreciated1111

cartman13 · December 2010

Info is in the forum already for the dec event and 12k miles. Go back and reread car_man's posts for that. Not sure about 15k, but he might cover the residual hit for 12-15k. If u negotiate a good price the 36 month lease will probably be cheaper due to the way the math works.

beachlady80 · December 2010

I went through the complete forum for december and there was nothing for the 15k. Buying on Tuesday so I really need the info to make sure we are getting a fair deal.

Need the residual and money factor for 15k for a 36 and a 48 month lease on a RX350. Please any help would be appreciated!!!!!

topgun7 · December 2010

I went through the complete forum for december and there was nothing for the 15k. Buying on Tuesday so I really need the info to make sure we are getting a fair deal.

Subtract the 12K number by 2%... Residual is one of the number that dealer cannot change so that is no negotiation and delear cannot fudge the residual.. Most time, the MF for 12k and 15K mi a year is the same.. So if Car_man does not respond before tuesday, I will use 57% for residual (RX350) and 0.0017 for MF for 3yr 15k mi... And make sure you at least look into using multiple deposit to bring down the payment.. For each additional payment, LFS reduce the money factor by 0.0007 and you can do a max of 9 security deposits. LFS will return the money after the lease is done.. The saving in payment generally amount to 8-10% a year of the deposit.. So if you have money sitting in bank CD getting 1% a year, that is a pretty good alternative..

cartman13 · December 2010

I'd agree with what topgun said here. Also note carman's post from november

"Hi arbitrage1. Lexus Financial Services current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2011 RX 350 AWD with 15,000 miles per year are .00210 and 57%, respectively for Tier 1+ customers.

Car_man
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So i think you are definitely in the right ballpark.

Also residual is set by the bank so it is what it is (like topgun stated) MF can be padded by the dealer and the negotiated price can be played with along with fees and stuff. I'd be less worried about residuals.

If they are just quoting you payments, best way to cut through that bull is just ask straight up what car price, OTD price, MF, and residual is this based on. They can't hide anything cause it will all have to be clearly stated on the contract.

I noticed in topgun's post that he's missing a zero in the MF reduction for a security deposit. Hopefully that's obvious, but if you are like me you might wish it was true and believe it. LOL

logic_3 · December 2010

hey valenkav, did you end up making a purchase yet?

valenkav · December 2010

Hi logic_3,
I met Karen and she did excellent job working with me. The problem was my current lse (2008 Jeep Commander) with 5 remaining pmts around $400/mo. Nobody can be even close to that number and I decided to stay with Jeep until mid of June. Later on I will see which of two options (RX350 or Jeep Overland) would be more attractive to me. Thank you for help.

guruuno · December 2010

Looking to get into a 2011 RX450h, MSRP $53,845.
Between 2 dealers, best I can get for OTD is $49,845 from Dealer 1 and $48,679 from Dealer 2.
Same car loaded w/Nav, etc.
MF=00185
Residual=$30,153.20
How much down to get $600/mo (w/7% NJ tax included)?
Will fly anywhere USA for the deal.
Dealer 1 wants $748.93/mo, Dealer 2 'says' he can swing $600/mo w/$2500 down.
What to do, how to do it?
Is it worth paying the AutoLeaseGeek to negotiate the deal?

dkrimgold · December 2010

@guruuno

LOL. You sure you want a Lexus?

If you are looking around, check out my post on the ML350 Bluetek deal. Might be better for you. Mine was for 12K, but you can bump it to 15K without a massive increase.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef9dd7a/894#MSG894

CarMan@Edmunds · December 2010

You sure can, beachlady80. Lexus Financial Services' December buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2011 RX350 FWD with 15,000 miles per year are .00170 and 57%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its top aka "Tier 1+" credit tier.

The numbers for an otherwise identical 48 month lease are .00170 and 51%, respectively.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2010

Yes, cartman13, the money factor that you mentioned is correct.

Lexus Financial Services' December residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2011 RX450h AWD with 10,000 miles per year is 59%.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2010

Here you go, dulnev.

Lexus Financial Services' December buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2011 RX450h AWD with 12,000 miles per year are .00150 and 58%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its top aka "Tier 1+" credit tier.

Car_man
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guruuno · December 2010

OK, dealership referenced in initial post was Lexus of Edison (NJ)
Went to Ray Catena Lexus of Monmouth this evening, here is that offer:
2011 RX450h, MSRP $51,777 (same vehicle as other, only no 19" wheels or LED/HID headlamps).
Negotiated price is $45,900, MF is 0.0017
36 mo./15k yr. $599/mo. (incl. NJ tax) ($3k down, $1,865.50 acquisition fees, etc.), total $4,865.50 at signing.
AND
turn in 2007 Toyota Camry HYBRID [loaded] (had 48 mo lease, 4 mo. early), had 3k over in mileage (is now 51k), they will pay off/take in Camry, make new RX450h a 42Mo. lease for $629/mo or 48 mo. lease for $619/mo.

So the question(s) are:
$599/36 mo/15k yr + $4,865 w/no turn in (I'm responsible for Camry disposal)
or
$619/48 mo/15k yr + $4,865 they take Camry and I'm done with it
or
$629/42 mo/15k yr + $4,865 they take Camry and I'm done with it.

So it the Camry is already 3k over on mileage (@ .15 per mile/$450) with 4 payments of $596.22 left and a payoff of $15,043.62 that is like $2,800 vs. the deal as specified above.

I was hoping to keep the payments at $599/36 mo/15k yr WITH them taking the Camry and paying it off, but not gonna happen.
Is there any "wiggle" room left to tweak before commitment or it this as good as it gets?
I do appreciate the help and wealth of information offered here.

cartman13 · December 2010

First off according the carman, the money factor should be .00015. At worst they should give you .00016 if not .00015. (disregard. after reading the forum it seems like a 15k mile lease get's a higher MF)

As for the options where they take the camary, i'm assuming you took the camry to a carmax and made sure they won't take you out of it with no cost?

To figure out what they are charging you to take the camry, you'll need the residuals for each lease then just plug the numbers into a generic lease calculator (fount on the internet).

Just ask the dealer what the buyout/residual is on each lease option.

Then compare what they are charging you for taking the camry vs. what it would cost you to unload it at carmax.

As for the price you are paying, is that below invoice?

guruuno · December 2010

I'll check in the AM as to the exact MF by contacting the sales rep.
I did not take the Camry to Carmax, I was not aware of that process. Please elaborate as to the benefits, etc., and other than getting a value of what they offer, are you saying if the buyout is "X" from Toyota, and Carmax says it will only offer you "Y", I should forget any other values I see in KBB, NADA, eBay, retail dealers lots, and only focus on wholesale trade-in value? I do understand the advantages of just turning in the car and walking away, but one would think it should not cost more than the 4 remaining payments + any mileage overage (which as of today would equal about $2,800).
The payoff for the Camry is $15,043.62 as of today. That's the same as the buyout, no/yes? If not, please elaborate. (The actual buyout on the Camry lease states $13,526 at the end of the lease term in April 2011).
When you say, "made sure they won't take you out of it with no cost", you mean who, Carmax, the dealer, anyone? Bottom line on that is if the payoff is X, and I pay it off, it's worth that to whoever buys it, and are you saying if Carmax or the dealer offers less than what the payoff is, that's all I'd get and have to make up the difference? Why not then would one not buy it out themselves, spend $180 to detail it, and sell it for the cost one has into it just to break even, rather than take a loss?
Regarding the buyout on the Lexus, I think it was $30k or so, I will check in the AM.
Re: 'below invoice', MSRP vs OTD vs INVOICE, who/where do I get INVOICE numbers with all options as specified on the window sticker, and normally, what should one expect to pay off of MSRP, if at all (I'd assume it's about supply, demand, desirability, etc., correct?)
Anyway, my wife just came to me with these facts:
For the new Lexus:
$599x36mo=$21,564 (no Camry involved)
$619X48mo=$29,712 (w/Camry turned in to them)
$629X42mo=$26,418 (w/Camry turned in to them)
So, if I owe 4x$596.22=$2,384.88 + 3k mileage over the 48k allowed (as of today), which is .15x3,000=$450 for a walk away of $2,838.88 to get out of the Camry lease, I'm getting charged $5,309 (48 mo) $2,016 (42 mo) over and above the $2,808 payoff?
Sounds like they are not doing me any favors.

So, without further headaches, bottom lime is if I keep the Camry until April, buy it for $13,526, flip it for the same amount, and deal for a RX450h at that time, is $599/36mo a good deal, and what would be the total out of pocket expected.

I know this is long winded, but man, it is not so super simple when one is a novice.

topgun7 · December 2010

I did not take the Camry to Carmax, I was not aware of that process. Please elaborate as to the benefits, etc.

It is a very simple process.. You take your camry to the toyota dealerships in your area. Tell them you want to sell your car to them. They will ask your lease termination amount (toyota financial will be able to tell you. or if you use the online account to pay for the monthly lease, the lease payoff amount should be right in your account. The dealership can find that out also very easily.). Normally they will at least trying to make you pay 1000-2000 to get rid of the car regardless of how much your car is worth. However you can take the car to multiple dealears and look at the price of similar car they listed in their own inventory to get a gauge on what kind of price they can offer you. Make sure you factor into the work that they need to perform on the car and profit margin for the dealer. The best way is to get multiple bids and go from there. We just did that for our 08 LS460. The initial offer is 35K and wifey negotiate up to 39.5 (our payoff amount.. so we just walk away from the car). She called 7 dealers in our area and 3 showed interested and she took the cars to two of the dealers (the last one called back too late since he is in Lexus auction). The dealer turned around and CPO the car (getting an extended warranty from Lexus) and listed it at 48K... CPO probably cost the dealer a couple thousand and they also need to replace the tires.. So dealer cost for the car is about 42.5K and they are asking for 48K.. My guess is that they will find a buyer at 45-46K... It is always good to seperate the trade in and buying a new car. The delear that is willing to pay top dollars for your used car is not necessary the same delear who is deperate for new car sales. So you are cheating yourselves by combining the deals into one. Wifey did her calling and negotiation in 24 hours... But we live in Bay area where there is a lot of dealers around so life it easier..-

cartman13 · December 2010

Annoying, I wrote a reply and this stupid browser somehow deleted it.

So my suggestion is:

1. Get the payment for 36 months with turning in the camry.
2. figure out the pre-tax payment for both scenarios @36 months.
3. Check the difference in payments and divide by 30. This is the rough number of thousands they are charging you to take the camry.
4. Alternatively you could get more exact and plug all the numbers into an online lease calc and fiddle with the trade-in numbers till you find the right payment.

Now, if a carmax is nearby, take it to them get a quote. Its good for 7 days/200 miles. They can check with Toyota to get a pay off quote for you as well. (And upon further review, i guess Carmax doesn't operate in NJ or NY so this point could be moot.) But the thing topgun said about checking with toyota dealers ect. is the same idea. But you need to know the lexus dealer is charging you before you can make any decisions. (And they are trying really hard to deguise it by changing the terms on you if taking te car.)

Now compare the difference. Of what the dealer is charging you and what it would cost you to unload it at carmax.

I can almost guarantee you Carmax will offer more than any other brick and mortar dealer. Its strange, but if you really think about it, it makes sense. But thats a different discussion.

The analysis you are doing is flawed in that its not taking into account the different residual values of the car at 36, 42, and 48 months. Sure the sum of payments are higher, but your right to buy the car at each point will be at a different price point. Some of each lease payment goes towards paying the depreciation so at 48 months, your buyout would be probably around 3k lower than at 36 months.

Hope that makes sense.

REVISED TO FIX MY ASSUMPTIONS!

I did a quick calc assuming the residual for a 48 mo lease drops to 50% vs. 56% on a 36 month lease. (an assumption based on other numbers i've seen.) Then they are charging you about $2,850 to take the camry. If that's true they should be able to do the 36 month using your terms for $689 a month. Seems like a steep hit.

Should be an easy call the to the dealer to verify.

It should not matter to the dealer what the length of the lease is. Eitherway they sell the car.

hamm3r · December 2010

Hi. In NJ I am being quoted 49607 on MSRP of 54104.
I have to pay taxes and fees of 2235, but otherwise no money down.
3 year 12k miles 31380 residual quote is $707/month.
3 year 15k miles 30298.40 residual quote is 737/month.
25 cents a mile overage.

Would appreciate help if this is a good deal or not. Thanks so much for helping out those of us who can't grasp the concept.

hamm3r · December 2010

Oh, and he said he didn't know what the money factor was.

cartman13 · December 2010

Assuming this is a 2011:

based on those numbers, they are padding the money factor.

Assuming you are paying all fees and taxes up front. (make sure you aren't paying any cap cost reduction.)

they are giving your a MF of .0019. (assumes a 7% tax rate)

The Dec to remember event for a 3 yr. 10k mile lease is 0.0015 according to the forum host car_man.

That's quite a bit of pad. other's in NJ have been quoted .0017 for a 15k mile lease. (which also seems to jive with what car_man has said.)

I might shop around a little. if you are tier 1+, they should offer at least a MF of .0017. The disount you are getting seems in the ball park with others i think. I'm in socal, so it's a different market.

guruuno · December 2010

OK, after using the help here, this is what I negotiated:

$629/mo for 36 months with $3,000 down and $1,865.50 fees, etc.
And they took the Camry with no hassle! (no mileage hit, no nothing)

If I add $1,000 and make it $4,000 down, it's back to $599/mo w/tax included!

Seems like the deal to me, picking it up in the AM.

Thanks all again

hamm3r · December 2010

Cartman,
Thanks for the info. I have some questions:
1. By tier 1+ do you mean credit rating? If so, I'm good.
2. I downloaded an app to help me figure this stuff out. Question, when inputting the cap cost/negotiated price, should I include the tax in the cap cost and use $0 as down payment? Since they will collect the tax up front, this is confusing me.

When I negotiate, is it correct to ask them to either lower the money factor to .0017 or alternately lower the base to 49,000? (I am more interested in the 15k) I'm doing this via email (if that makes a difference).

hamm3r · December 2010

Also, yes, 2011.

pam49er · December 2010

im looking at 2011 RX 350 with Comfort , Nav and Premium packages. List is 47745.00 and current deal is 3500 discount and 15K for my 2005 RX 330 in excellent condition with 75K miles and 1K Lexas owner loyalty bonus.. Is this a good deal?

They are telling me the lease factor is .00220 and I am waiting to get info on what the residual is. I am not sure I am going to want to keep this car more than 3 years which is why i am considering leasing this time, I dont like some of the changes they have made to the interior.

cartman13 · December 2010

yep Tier1+ was in reference to credit.

If you are paying the tax out of pocket and don't want it figured into the calculation you can do it two ways. 1 include the tax in the cap cost and also include any tax payment in the "down payment" or cap cost reduction.

Alternatively you can exlude the tax and tax paid from both. Just be consistent.

Yes, i would ask them why the MF is higher than you have been quoted. Call aorund to another dealer and ask them what the MF is for your lease if you want to actually try to get a quote. You could even ask them, are you marking up the MF?

MF and cap cost are independant factors. Each can add to dealer profit on it's own. but neither should directly influence the other. So you can try to negotiate both parts.

Also, I'm not sure i know how tax works in NJ, but i thought the only places that charged an upfront tax on leases were texas and illinois. So curious about the "tax upfront" comment.

guruuno · December 2010

OK, it's done.
MSRP is $51,777.00
CAP Cost Reduction=$4,000
$1,865.50 all the other "stuff"
for a total of $5,865.50
$599 mo. for 36 mo., 15,000 per year
Gross Cap Cost=$46,445.89
Residual Value=$28,995.12
and like I previously said, they took the 2007 Camry Hybrid with 50,000 miles on it, 4 months early, no penalty, no costs, (it was in pristine condition).
So, was this the "December To Remember"?

pam49er · December 2010

New lease MF is .0017 and 57% residual. they are applying the 1K lexus loyalty bonus to the capitalized cost.

topgun7 · December 2010

Will fly anywhere USA for the deal.
Dealer 1 wants $748.93/mo, Dealer 2 'says' he can swing $600/mo w/$2500 down.
What to do, how to do it?
Is it worth paying the AutoLeaseGeek to negotiate the deal?

If you want the best deal, try the Los Angeles delears. You can email all of them and see what deal you can strike. You will have go judge if it is worth it to drive it home or have them ship the car to your home (and pay for the transport yourselves)

tbone6964 · December 2010

Thought I'd share my deal since this forum has helped me so much.

2011 RX350
36mnths @ 10K/yr

MSRP = 45,847
Residual = 60%
Money Factor = .0017

Purchase Price = 40,119
Less Lexus Loyalty = (1,000)
Plus Loss on Trade = 2,000
Acquisition Fee = 700
Title, Reg = 549
Misc = 177

Due at Lease Signing = 1,311.12

Payment = 514.62 + Tax = 559.65

2013 and earlier Lexus RX 350 / RX 450h Lease Questions

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