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Mercedes-Benz E-Class Lease Questions

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Comments

  • zzzzzz1zzzzzz1 Member Posts: 5
    Thanks.
    12,000 miles per year.
    MSRP $59,215
  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    edited November 2011
    Do not put that $5000 down as a down payment. It looks good because it lowers your monthly payments, but effectively you are paying $5000/30months or $166 a month more than what they are quoting you....so your lease is $525+166 (prepaid) or almost $700 a month for that car.

    The "smart money" way to use the same $5000 is to tell them you want to put that money towards multiple security deposits....and remember, unlike a down payment, you get all your security deposits back at the end of the lease. That's a very big difference. But the biggest advantage is that by making multiple security deposits (which is effectively just loaning mercedes that money), you will cut your monthly payments from $700 to roughly $650 a month....a saving of about $50 every month. The problem you have looking at this is that in one case you are paying $525 a month and that seems like less than $650 a month...but at the end of the $525 a month lease, you don't get that $5000 back...and at the end of paying $650 a month for the same lease, you get the $5000 back. Add up the total you spent for the car in both cases and you've saved money by writing a larger check each month. (Obviously you have to work with your real numbers...but I'm not far off).

    Please be a smart leasor...don't fall for the money down trick.

    Warning...your dealer may tell you it's a terrible deal...each security deposit only lowers the money factor by .00007, etc. Ignore that...most dealers have no idea how multiple security deposits work and they focus on lowering the check people have to write each month. By the way, multiple security deposits are a standard part of the mercedes finance lease...it's not something offered by some dealers and not others...it's just that most who lease don't know about multiple security deposits and the dealers don't offer it openly because customers don't understand that paying $650 a month is a better deal than paying $525 a month because customers don't realize that the down payment is just prepayment of part of the real monthly payment....just paid in advance.

    Next, Mercedes leasing provides gap insurance as part of their lease...that is, if your car is stolen or destroyed during the lease and it is worth more than your insurance will pay for the car, the leasing company will cover any difference. However, if you paid $5000 down, that money will be considered part of the insurance settlement so the leasing company doesn't refund it to you, even though you haven't made all the payments...it's gone. They can't do that with a security deposit...you get that back even if your car is stolen or destroyed.

    Finally, if you do lease, buy the mercedes (not some other policy that the dealer says is "better") basic maintenance package and have it calculated as part of the lease...not after the deal is done. Maintenance is residualizable...so if they are charging you $1200 for the maintenance, you really only pay about $500 because just like the car itself, the maintenance "feature" has a residual value. If the residual value of the car is 60% after 30 months, then you will pay 40% of whatever the list price is on the maintenance, just like you are paying 40% of the price of the car over the life of the lease. (caution on this...some dealers claim that you can't residualize maintenance....if they won't residualize it, don't buy it this way).

    I know this probably confuses more than it helps....but leasing a car "smartly" as a surprise is not as easy as it sounds, if you are trying to get the best and safest deal.
  • zzzzzz1zzzzzz1 Member Posts: 5
    Thanks. This is starting to make more sense to me. So first should I negotiate the MSRP down, lets say to maybe $54,000? Then state that I want buy MSDs with the $5000? But the Mercedes Benz dealer said that I need to pay $3380 due at signing? So we added the additional $1620 to reduce the monthly payments. But I see what you are saying. Why should I give them that money in advance? I keep that money gaining some interest on my end and pay it slowly. So am I not required to pay anything due at signing? Can I opt to just put the entire $5000 in MSDs? Will that $5000 only equate to a $50 reduction of the monthly? Is there a formula to know how to calculate the monthly lease payment with MSDs? Is it the $5000 in MSD will reduce the monthly by $50 but if I get $4000 MSDs, it will reduce it by $40?
    Also I put $500 down to hold the car today but they have to have the car delivered. Can I cancel my contract tomorrow? I believe I can because its within the three days to cancel a contract. Thank you so much for your help. I want to surprise my husnband but I dont want to disappoint him with a bad financial decision.
  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    I don't know what state you are in but that can effect the money you have to pay up front. When you pick up the car, you should pay the first month's lease payment, the title/registration fees and any taxes required by law. Some states require all the taxes paid up front, but most don't. $3380 is a very large out the door payment, but if your state requires taxes paid that way, then you are stuck. I should also mention that a few states do not allow multiple security deposits....NY is one of them...but again, most states do allow them.

    The monthly savings from MSD's has to be calculated because each MSD (10 max) reduces the money factor by .00007....the dealer really has to run it thru their computer to know the monthly payments. Here's another confuser (sorry)...in some cases mercedes offers what they call a promotional money factor...and you can't reduce a promotional money factor with MSD's. Ask the dealer what the money factor will be with no MSD's and then ask what the money factor will be with 2 MSD's (that's about what $1200 will buy). pick the option with the lowest money factor. Even if it's $1200, don't make a down payment up front....keep the money and pay it as you go....just in case the car is stolen/destroyed.

    Did you look at a 33 month lease...usually that is a better deal than 30 months, but not always. If you are considering a bluetec (diesel), then a 24 months is a great great deal. Not sure of this months numbers, but you can lease a bluetec for about $125-$150 less per month than a gas e350. I don't think I'd surprise my spouse with a diesel, although it's really a terrific car (I own a 2011)....
  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    edited November 2011
    One more clarification....you ask if the $5000 will only save $50 a month. If you do the math, then for a 30 month lease, you will save $1500........think of it this way....you bought a 30 month CD for $5000 and at the end of 30 months you now have $6500...the money you saved plus the original $5000 that Mercedes returns to you at the end of the lease. That's about 10% a year. Of course these are guestimates....but the numbers will work out close to that. Of course you could put the money into a real CD for 30 months and you might get 2% per year from the bank. Which would you pick :) I would give them 50 security deposits if I could.....where else can you get 10% guaranteed on your money.
  • zzzzzz1zzzzzz1 Member Posts: 5
    Thank you for your time and advice. I live in NY.
  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    I believe that if you lease the car from a dealer in NJ, you can lease it with multiple security deposits. I am not sure if they will require you to pay the tax the same way as in NY either...you might not have to pay that tax up front. It would be worth a phone call to check.
  • zzzzzz1zzzzzz1 Member Posts: 5
    Thank you. I will make the call. You gave great advice. I usually make these decisions with my husband. Thanks again.
  • hannabhannab Member Posts: 26
    ghstudiuo is correct - I also live in N Y and generally lease from a NJ dealer, and do make multiple security deposits. As for the sales tax, NYS requires it to be paid in full (only the portion for the term of the lease payments) at the time of registration. It can, however, be rolled into the payment at the prevailing MF, which means drive off costs can be as little as first month and registration fees. The advantage is should some unfortunate event result in the total loss of the car, or for other reason you end the lease early (i.e. pull ahead program or swap-a-leae) you have only paid tax on your actual payments.
  • gator5000egator5000e Member Posts: 90
    Has anyone had a chance to post them for November yet? If so, I missed them. If not, thanks in advance.
  • seattlecruiserseattlecruiser Member Posts: 45
    Great post! I am currently looking at leasing a MB, and I am trading in another car that I own outright. I live in a high sales tax state (9.8% on vehicles), and I have been told I only get a sales tax credit for the portion of my trade-in that is actually applied toward the lease as a down payment. I can't just take the money from the trade-in as cash or I will have to pay sales tax on the lease payments. So I have looked at a one-pay lease, which is actually pretty attractive. The MF is reduced by 0.0008 to what amounts to 1.77% interest and I won't pay any sales tax. So a $37,355 before tax vehicle will cost me $11,400 up front, everything included for 30 months. But reading your post I am now concerned about the risk of loss -- is there a way to protect yourself from the scenario you describe above?
  • bknycbknyc Member Posts: 61
    Car man
    List $68,605- P2, Apperance, Metallic paint, Lane Departure....36 month lease, 10k miles, 3 yr maint. plan. $695 p/month (including NJ sales tax) $1900 out of pocket (1st month, title, reg, tags, bank fee) also includes fleet of $2k and loyalty of $2k-

    Thoughts???
  • e350leasee350lease Member Posts: 11
    I live in VA and I am having a heck of a time getting the dealers to let me do MSD's! They are suck on their promotional rate of .00186 on a 2012 E350 Sedan. They say this rate is better than buying 10 MSD's on a standard rate and won't even give me a standard rate for me to do the calculation myself. They are willing to do the following:

    MSRP - $57,145.00
    Selling Price - $52,467.00
    RV - 65%
    30 month lease
    Taxes / $795 Fee/ $55.75 Cap Fee = $1,269.75 rolled in lease
    12K miles per year
    Final monthly lease = $755.16

    What should I do?
  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    I don't think you can protect yourself....Mercedes will want the value of the car as of the time you are ending the contract (much like buying your way out of a lease). Your insurance company will pay you the fair market value of the car which may be (most likely will be) less than mercedes wants. Since you have already paid mercedes for the total lease, they will keep the money you paid and will want you to pay the difference to buy the car at the buy out price....they will not just accept the total paid by the insurance company. A bit confusing, but hopefully you get the idea.

    If you are just paying monthly, you declare the car stolen/destroyed and they should accept whatever your insurance company pays and their gap insurance will cover the difference between the amount your insurance company pays and the 'buy out' price.

    Of course it's never as easy as it should be...but essentially that's the difference.
  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    I don't know this month's rates...they could be right, but without knowing the standard MF for someone in your credit tier, you can't tell. I don't understand a dealer that won't give you the rate....I'd just walk out and find another dealer...but that's me.

    what's the $55.75 cap fee?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 234,725
    Generally, one-pay leases aren't treated as an upfront cap cost reduction. The lease is figured as a pay-as-you-go, just with a lower money factor.

    So, the upfront payment is put in escrow, and used to pay the (lower) lease payment each month..

    If the car is totaled, those remaining escrow payments revert to the lessee.... insurance pays off, GAP coverage covers the deficit, just as in a regular lease..

    So, basically, you are covered the same as in a normal lease... with one caveat... If you are in a state that collects the sales tax upfront, then that portion of your one-pay lease amount is gone, and won't be prorated..

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    Hmmm...you could well be right, but that's different than what I had been told so I guess I'll go find my lease and see what it says.
  • dewarsandsodadewarsandsoda Member Posts: 207
    I wholeheartedly agree with ghstudio's approach. I would also add that you,
    1. Ask carman for the base rate MF for 2012 E350 sedan, and I highly doubt the rate for 2012 exceeds 2011 models significantly
    2. Show the dealer the actual calculation of MSD as MSD coupled with autopay is equivalent to 1.92% (2400 x 0.0008) reduction in interest charges. Further to #1, even if the dealer suggests a marked up MF = 0.00240, you would still be saving on interest vs. their promo rate = 0.00186.
    3. Send them a link to Sally Struthers' correspondence schools for an online course on remedial math, then check out other dealers in VA.

    As an aside, my father lives in NoVA (DC area), and after he heard about my deal, he contacted a few dealers in the area on an S class lease. He had a similar issue, so he tried a few in MD where he had success. Two of the VA dealers' GMs reconnected, claiming that they would do MSD, but by then they had lost his business.

    Cheers!
  • dewarsandsodadewarsandsoda Member Posts: 207
    Hi lamscott,
    I would highly recommend contacting MB of Long Beach and ask for salesperson with initials G.O. He's transparent and will provide you with base rate MF + MSD. Tell him that the folks from San Diego who leased a 2011 bluetech on Oct 1st recommended you.

    Cheers!
  • qianc_01qianc_01 Member Posts: 4
    I got an offer from Long Beach dealer. Including with 2000 conquest money,
    it is 75k off MSRP (57,415) for 2012 Diesel e350. The 4 year 12K 's residual
    is 57% and the MF is 0.00225. So for 4 years is 1500 drive off and monthly
    payment is 560 + tax.
    I don't know if they mark up the MF. But I plan to bargain another 1k from
    the sale price and ask for MSD
  • e350leasee350lease Member Posts: 11
    Let me know how this goes? I have received 3 different promotional MF's from different dealers in VA/MD for an E350 Sedan?
    - .00186
    - .00146
    - .00225
    I thought these were standard national MF's?
  • imperiusreximperiusrex Member Posts: 7
    hello.
    I am looking at a 350 sport p2
    MSRP @ 59725

    I assume the best term is 30 months?
    I am looking for 12K miles per year
    I also have a BMW so there is 2K conquest, right?

    Dealer offered @ 51400 after my 2k so only getting 6325 discount. Not sure what invoice would be.

    AZ registration but most likely getting car in CA.

    Also, on Benz site when I configure it shows 9,999 gas guzzler charge???

    Thanks. What would be my best residual and m.f.? Looking for payment with fees down.
  • e350leasee350lease Member Posts: 11
    I am looking for the SAME thing. I want the best MF I can get
  • gator5000egator5000e Member Posts: 90
    Is this for a 2012 or a 2011? Cause if a 2012 you have a way better deal than any dealership in Orlando is offering.
  • imperiusreximperiusrex Member Posts: 7
    2012. I know MVP is 12.25% so I figure they have some room, no?

    Also looking at the maintenance. I would do three services so it might be worth it. My two current cars are BMW's so I am spoiled on what the maintenance covers...
  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    we could probably help if you gave us all the facts and didn't use abreviations that only you understand. That may be a great discount, but without knowing the total deal with money factor, how much down, etc....I certainly can't help much. Will the dealer sell you the car for cash for that amount plus tax or are they going to add just a few charges to it before you write that check???

    Maintenance is just part of ownership...BMW lumps it into their price and Mercedes doesn't...that's a marketing decision...and you just have to compare apples to apples.

    Why do you assume that 30 months is optimal? what is 12.5%? etc.
  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    no, you don't want the best MF....you want the lowest cost per month of ownership. You have your eye on the wrong ball.
  • imperiusreximperiusrex Member Posts: 7
    edited November 2011
    OK here is what i have on a 2012 sport p2 350 sedan (ca dealer)

    msrp 59725
    invoice 56307
    selling price 51400 -includes $2K in conquest cash.

    30 month 12k miles per year
    65% residual
    .00165 money factor

    1725 total down 649 inc tax per month

    I will have the car for 36k miles so i think I will have them rework adding the 3yr maintenance.
  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    You really should not put any money down up front. Instead use that money plus a bit more to buy the maximum multiple security deposits which will lower your monthly payments by roughly $50/mo and you get that money back at the end of the lease.

    Otherwise it looks like an excellent deal on a 2012. They seem to be giving Mercedes e's away in California....
  • e350leasee350lease Member Posts: 11
    ghstudio,

    MB will not let him use MSD's w/ the promo MF .00165. Only the standard rate which, even with 10 MSD's, is not as good as .00165. BTW the base rate is .00164 NOT .00165. Your dealership is marking up the MF.
  • imperiusreximperiusrex Member Posts: 7
    edited November 2011
    yeah he told me if finance guy needed to make some money. I think he quoted me that the total deal made 350. Besides the difference in MF it seems like a quality deal tho, no?

    Only issue i am having is not finding the exact car I want. I don't think I want to order and wait till what? End of January? I was told Benz shuts down the plant for a month here soon. For some reason once you go P2 you are more limited in options. I would have figured that the P2 would be more popular.
  • empowahempowah Member Posts: 70
    Does anyone know the residuals and MF on a 24-month lease (12K/yr) for an E350 Bluetec? A couple of months ago, they were in the high 70s for the 2011s.
  • e350leasee350lease Member Posts: 11
    Yes. I think that is a great deal. $8,325 off MSRP on a 2012 even with .00147 MF. I would be all over it! I am having a hard time getting what I want as well. I want the AMG wheel package on 2012 E350...having a real hard time finding it. I am going to try to get mine discounted this much as well, but if its not on the lot...I dont think I will get as good of a deal?
  • e350leasee350lease Member Posts: 11
    63%
  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    The poster was asking about the Bluetec which has a much higher residual than any of the gas e's. My guess is that it's still well over 70% for a 2 year 12K/year lease....but I don't know the exact numbers for the 2012's.
  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    what is the current "standard mf rate"?
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi gator5000e. Mercedes-Benz Financial's November buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 24-month lease of a 2012 E350 Coupe with 12,000 miles per year are .00162 and 69%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its top credit tier.

    The numbers for for an otherwise identical 30-month lease are .00162 and 63%.

    This car's 36-month numbers are .00162 and 59%.

    The residual values for a lease with only 10,000 miles per year would be 1% higher.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Now that's my kind of post, escalade24 ;) . Thanks for the kind words :shades: .

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi seattlecruiser. I have been under the impression that the conquest and loyalty offers cannot be combined.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey gator5000e. The E-Class's numbers vary by trim level, term, and mileage allowance. It would be much easier to give you an idea of what its current program is like if you were more specific about what you are looking for.

    For now I can tell you that Mercedes is only providing lease support on the following trim levels this month...

    .00167 on the 2012 E350 Convertible

    .00162 on the 2012 E350 Coupe

    .00145 on the 2012 E350 Sedan

    and

    .00146 on the 2012 E350 Sedan 4Matic

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi bknyc. Do you happen to know this car's selling price. I probably could back into it by playing with the numbers for a while, but it would be much easier if you let us know. The selling price will enable us to see how large a dealer discount you are being given and in turn if there's any room left to negotiate.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey e350lease. It looks like some of the dealers that you spoke with are trying to mark your car's money factor up to add additional hidden back-end profit to your deal. This sort of thing happens all the time with luxury brand dealers. Please see my previous post for this car's buy rate and make sure that the dealer uses it to calculate your car's payment.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Here's the information that you're looking for empowah. Mercedes-Benz Financial's November buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 24-month lease of a 2012 E350 Bluetec with 15,000 miles per year are .00225 and 75%, respectively for consumers who qualify for its Tier 1 credit tier.

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  • e350leasee350lease Member Posts: 11
    2012 E350 Sedan

    MSRP = $59,725
    Discounted price = $53,125 (includes $2k conquest)
    Term = 30 months / 12K miles
    RV = 65%
    MF = .00145
    Monthly = $684 including 3% sales tax

    Should I pull the trigger?
  • gator5000egator5000e Member Posts: 90
    Here is what I am being quoted:

    For a 2012 E350 sedan for you that is Steel Grey with a Black interior. The car has the Premium 1 Package, Sport Package, Rear Lip Spoiler and heated front seats.
    Vehicle Price: $56,385.00
    Preferred Customer Discount: - $4,000.00
    Total Selling Price: $52,385.00

    Sales Tax (estimate): $3,216.41
    Tag/Registration Fees (estimate): $348.75
    Tire/Battery/MVWEA: + $8.50
    Dealer Service Fee: $699.95
    Balance Due (estimate): $56,658.61

    The 30 month residual is 65% or $36,650.25 based on this $56,385 E350 sedan. The money factor is .00187. With $4k due at signing the payment is $691 including taxes.

    Salesman also said this:

    In theory, I am $2500 off considering that we have conquest cash, but I have to transport the car in. The 2012's are still new to us so I will not be able to get much more of a discount. How about 48 months at $650 including taxes allowing 12,000 miles per year with $3000 total due at signing?

    The dealer is not really negotiating much. Any suggestions?
  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    are you in a state that requires you to pay all the sales tax up front? Is the $3000 down just to reduce your monthly payments? Are you in a state that allows multiple security deposits? I don't understand your comment on conquest cash....it should be part of the deal....or is that $2k part of the 4000 discount?

    Have you considered including maintenance in the lease? what is the dealer charging for the 'loan origination fee'?

    Lots of questions....if you tell us the answers, we may just be able to help you out.
  • gator5000egator5000e Member Posts: 90
    ghstudio,

    No, I am in Florida so the upfront tax payment is not required.

    The $4,000 and later, $3,000 is just cap reductions payments. The salesman is telling me he is at his limit on discounts so if I want to lower my payments, I need to help out with the cap reduction payment.

    MSDs are allowed. But he tells me that he has to use an inflated MF if I go that route.

    The conquest cash is part of the $4K discount. He says he can't discount much more as the 2012s are new and that he has to transport the car trim I want in from elsewhere.

    The loan origination fee was initially $1,095 but to get my business he would be willing to go down to $895. This is in addition to the dealer service fee of $699.

    I think that answers all your questions. Please let me know if you have more. And I look forward to your reply and thanks again!
  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    edited November 2011
    some thoughts.

    1) Dealer is giving you $2000 off, with negotiating, he should be willing to give you $3000 off...plus, of course the $2000 conquest money.

    2) Do not put any money down...bad idea on a lease...it's a false saving..just divide the $3000 by 30 months and you are paying an additional $100 a month, you're just paying it up front. There is also risk if you total the car or it is stolen. Don't do it.

    3) See what the rate is that they use for multiple security deposits. "higher" doesn't mean anything. The rate should be for your credit tier...not some generic number.

    4) Ask the dealer to add the mercedes (basic) warranty to the lease. It is treated like a feature on the car and you should only actually pay 35% of the price...it's a quirk in the mercedes leasing policy. Note: some dealers won't let you do this...but many will. Don't discuss the why's with them...just ask if it's residualizable. Price the lease out both ways...using the computer. Don't let the salesman do it with a pencil and paper...make them run the numbers thru their computer.

    5) Do consider the P2 option...keyless entry and the lighting are worth it, especially when you are leasing. You probably don't need heated seats (since you are finding a car anyway) and the wood/leather steering wheel is beautiful.

    6) Don't buy any of the additional insurance packages (except maybe the wheels package depending on how/where you drive).

    7) if the dealer transports in from the Port of Entry, then they don't pay the interdealer transfer fee. See if he can find a car at the port that he could trade with another dealer.

    8) I've saved the best advice for last: Drive and consider leasing the bluetec instead of the gas e. The residual is higher so your monthly payments will be less...and you will be getting an incredible car that gets 26+ mpg in city driving. Matter of fact, consider getting the bluetec and leasing for just 24 months (not 30/33/36 months). Price it out...you and the dealer will both be shocked at the monthly cost. My dealer couldn't believe the monthly cost....and I'm now driving a 2011 bluetec...and love it.
  • chalkie1chalkie1 Member Posts: 17
    Car Man: Are you sure about the Bluetec MF of .00225. Why is it so much higher than the regular E class (approx..00165)? Also, how much will each extra security deposit (the monthly payment round up to the nearest 50.00 right?) decrease the money factor?
  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    edited November 2011
    I believe that Mercedes only has "promotional rates" on the gas models of the e series....which is why the bluetec is higher. However you can use multiple security deposits against the rate to bring it down to .00155. Each security deposit drops the MF by .00007 and you can make a maximum of 10 security deposits.

    As far as rounding payments up to the nearest $50, I've seen it done various ways...and all seem to be ok with Mercedes which is weird. In my case, they calculated my payments based on 10 MSD's to get my actual monthly payment, including tax. Then I paid 10x my monthly payment including tax towards multiple security deposits. Others have had their monthly payment without tax rounded up to the nearest $50 and that's their security payment. I have also seen other variations.

    I have no clue how as to how Mercedes really wants it calculated.
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