Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Could you please let me know which insurance company offers GAP insurance? I looked online, but it shows that not all the insurance companies provide that coverage.
You need to ask them the following questions:
What is the residual (they will give you a % or a dollar amount)
The Money Factor (usually .000xxx)
Actual selling price of the vehicle
then google a lease calculator to make sure all adds up
First, I like to thank everyone who participates in these forums for providing helpful information, so people like me can become educated about the leasing process. If you head into a dealership without being extremely informed, they will take advantage of you.
Anyway, I just leased the Rav listed in the subject line. From what I can determine the pricing was as follows:
Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) = $31,739.00
Negotiated Price (Capitalized Cost) = $30,914.50(Incl doc, acquisition)
Down payment (Capitalized Cost Reduction) = $1,000.00
Toyota Incentive for recent College Grad = $1,000.00
Worth, after Depreciation (Residual Factor) = 63%
Term (months) = 36
Annual Interest Rate I = 0.816% or MF.00034
Monthly Lease Payments = $264.38
Total Monthly Payment = $287.84 (8.875% added, for taxes) + DMV costs
This is how I approached my negotiations with the dealership. I first went on to Edmunds and used the TMV pricing tool to find out what I should be paying for the vehicle I was interested in. I think the biggest mistake people make when leasing a vehicle, is not realizing that they still have to negotiate the selling price.
I printed out the report and used the rates provided by Car_Man to create a spreadsheet to calculate my lease payments. I took both of these printouts with me to the dealership. I let the dealer make an offer, which of course was completely out of line with what I was expecting to pay. He was looking for $340 with $2,500.00 out of pocket or $440 with nothing down. I pulled out my paperwork and told him if he can't come down to my price I was going to go somewhere that would. He called in his manager to review my numbers. After going over the paperwork, the manager commented on how nice it was to have an educated consumer come into the dealership, yeah right!
My only regret is that I ultimately wound up negotiating based on the monthly payment, so I don't truly know what I paid for the car. However, I was able to plug the numbers I did know into my spreadsheet (i.e. MSRP, Cap Red, Dep and MF and Payment) to figure out what should be the negotiated price. I can only guess at what the Doc and Acquisition fees were.
Hey Car_Man, do you know what the Doc and Acquisition fees are for NYC?
Hope this helps others...
Thanks
Brandon
Thanks!
I'm not Car_man but let me throw in my 2 cents. The Toyota acq fee is $650. And, unless I'm mistaken, I believe that the state of NY limits the dealer doc fee to $75. If so, this means that your selling price is about $30,189.50. My guess is that you could have done better. You should check Edmund's invoice price as well as incentives offered for this vehicle. Also, check overstock at zag.com for competitive low pricing in your area.
One other comment...
Please be advised that NY taxes the sum of the taxable payments which is due at lease inception. As such, they do not tax payments and, therefore, do not collect the tax as payments are received. You didn't provide the model year. Judging by the residual factor, though, I'm guessing a 2011 model year. You should ask the dealer to itemize all charges including the doc fee and acq fee. Your lease should flow as follows...
Adjusted MSRP.............................. 31,739.00
Sell Price....................................... 30,189.50
Amounts Capitalized
Dealer Doc Fee.............................. 75.00
Toyota Acq Fee............................. 650.00
NY Sales Tax @8.875%................ 1,104.45
Gross Capitalized Cost.................. 32,018.95
Cap Reduction.............................. 2,000.00 (includes college grad incentive)
Adjusted Capitalized Cost............. 30,018.95
Residual Factor........................... 63%
Residual Value............................ 19,995.57
Money Factor............................. 0.00034
Term......................................... 36
Taxable Monthly Payment........... 264.38
Monthly Payment...................... 295.43
Upfront Lease Charges (itemize!)
1st Month's Payment................. 295.43
DMV Fees............................... 250.00 (Guess)
Other Fees.............................. ???
John
Leased @ Queensboro Toyota
I should have been more clear, my final payment is $287.84. This figure already includes the tax. According to edmunds the TMV price should be $29,900.00. I realize I paid about $350.00 more than that, but I still think it's a good deal, especially when you consider the extra $1000.00 incentive. Also, I wasn't sure exactly what the doc fees were when I ran my numbers, so I over estimated when I presented my target price. I didnt know that NY limits it to $75. This is my first car purchase/lease, so lesson learned. I will have to get'em next time lol...
Using the tax scheme you gave me along with the doc and acquisition fee. I came up with the following breakdown. Also, just a side note this is a 2010 model...
MSRP....................................................$31,739.00
Capitalized Cost
Negotiated Price......................................$30,254.31
Acquisition Fee............................................$650.00
Taxes..........................................................$844.69
Total........................................................$31,749.00
Capitalized Cost Reduction
Down Payment..........................................$1,000.00
Toyota Recent Grad Incentive......................$1,000.00
Total $2,000.00
Residual 63%
Residual value..........................................$19,995.57
Mileage..........................................................12,000
Money Factor...............................................0.00034
Term....................................................................36
Total Monthly Payment $287.84
Upfront Lease Charges
License Fee...............................$195.00
State Inspection...........................$10.00
NYC Use Tax...............................$12.50
Doc Fee.......................................$75.00
First Month Payment...................$287.84
Total...........................................$580.34
The college grad incentive is subsidized by Toyota and has nothing to do with the sell price. Your numbers are off somewhere. Are you sure about the NY sales tax of 844.69? Here's what I have based on your revised info...
Adjusted MSRP.............................. 31,739.00
Sell Price....................................... 30,254.31
Amounts Capitalized
Toyota Acq Fee............................. 650.00
NY Sales Tax @8.875%.............. 1,103.45
Gross Capitalized Cost.................. 32,007.76
Cap Reduction.............................. 2,000.00 (includes college grad incentive)
Adjusted Capitalized Cost............. 30,007.76
Residual Factor........................... 63%
Residual Value............................ 19,995.57
Money Factor............................. 0.00034
Term......................................... 36
Taxable Monthly Payment........... 264.09
Monthly Payment...................... 295.12
Upfront Lease Charges (itemize!)
License Fee............................... 195.00
State Inspection........................... 10.00
NYC Use Tax............................... 12.50
Doc Fee....................................... 75.00
First Month Payment................... 295.12
TOTAL.........................................587.62
We disagree on the bolded items. This is a fairly simple and straight-forward NY lease and I've never been off on my NY calculations. I'm certain that something is wrong and it appears to be your NY sales tax of 844.69. Where you're getting 844.69 is a mystery to me. It could be that the dealer used a sales tax rate different from 8.875%. However, I tried different tax rates and was unsuccessful in producung 844.69. So, only God knows where it came from. This, of course, will cause the monthly payment to be different.
If you're inclined, you can check out my post regarding the calculation of NY sales tax at...
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef35de2/982#MSG981
In your case, the sales tax is computed as follows...
Tax on Cap reduction = 0.08875 x 2,000.00 ........................ 177.50
Sales Tax on the sum of the taxable payments @8.875%...... 925.95
TOTAL Sales Tax............................................................... 1,103.45
The taxable payment is computed as follows...
0.00034 x (28,904.31 + 19,995.57) + (28,904.31 + 19,995.57) / 36 = 264.09
And so, the NY payment Sales Tax is....
(0.08875/(1-0.08875)) x 36 x 264.09 = 925.95
Note that the 28,904.31 is the adjustable cap (i.e., 30,007.76 - 1,103.45) corresponding to the taxable payment of 264.09.
When did you finalize the lease? I pray this doesn't happen, but don't be surprised if the dealer calls you claiming that they made a mistake. If so, they should eat the difference. I learned a very long time ago that if you make a mistake in business, you eat your mistake and rightly so.
John
The 844.69 is not accurate. It appears that it was determined as follows...
term x (payment including tax - taxable payment)
36 x (287.84 - 287.84/1.08875) = 844.56
The 0.13 difference is attributed to rounding error. Anyway, that's not the method NY uses to compute sales tax. Is this a dealership number or is this a number that you calculated? I find it hard to believe that the dealer calculated the 844.69. Also, where is the tax on the $2,000 cap reduction which amounts to 177.50? There is no way that it's included in the 844.69
John
Here is the issue. When I looked over my lease agreement it just listed my monthly lease payment plus the DMV and Doc fee. I tried to use the figures I did know to determine the exact selling price. After looking through my paperwork a second time, my customer disclosure does list the following tax all capped into the lease:
Cashdown Tax $177.50
Upfront Tax $918.61
I will list all the numbers that I know for sure base on my paperwork and hopefully you can let me know exactly what the sell price was. I will try to do the same on my end and see if come up with the same #
Msrp $31739
Sell price?
Amounts Capitalized
Toyota Acq Fee............................. 650.00
NY Sales Tax 8.875%.............. $1,096.11
Gross Capitalized Cost.................. ?
Cap Reduction.............................. 2,000.00 (includes college grad incentive)
Adjusted Capitalized Cost............. ?
Residual Factor........................... 61.56463%% (based on purchase opt below)
Residual value............................ 19,540.00 (Purchase Option On Customer disclosure)
Money Factor............................. 0.00034
Term......................................... 36
Taxable Monthly Payment........... ?
Monthly Payment...................... 287.84
Upfront Lease Charges (itemize!)
License Fee............................... 195.00
State Inspection........................... 10.00
NYC Use Tax............................... 12.50
Doc Fee....................................... 75.00
First Month Payment................... 287.84
TOTAL.........................................580.34
Apparently, 19,995.57 isn't the residual value because, if the purchase option is 19,540, then there is no way that the residual could be 19,995.57. I have a feeling that we've been doing lots of guessing. As you know, in order to get credible results, the input data must be spot-on. If you have already signed the lease agreement and have taken delivery of this vehicle, you should have a copy of the lease agreeement. By law, they must disclose the gross and adjusted cap as well as the residual value and sell price which is called the Agreed Upon Value in your lease contract.
Does Toyota charge a purchase option fee? If so, that would also be disclosed in your contract and the 19,540, in all likelihood, would reflect the residual value plus the purchase option fee. Residual factors are always whole percents (e.g., 61%, 62%, etc). When I divide 19,540 by several whole percents, I always end up with an MSRP that includes change. For example, 19,540/0.64 = 30,531.25 makes no sense because the MSRP is always a whole number. Based on the 30,531.25, I'm able to get a payment of 287.84 which corresponds to a unique sell price of 29,574.17. The problem is that the sales tax is 1,080.22 which is different than your 1,096.11. Therefore, it's unlikely that the 19,540 is the residual value. And so, we now have two unknowns: sell price and residual value.
Also, if you're telling me that your monthly payment is exactly 287.84, then your taxes must be about 1,080.20. In order to maintain a payment of 287.84 requires that the residual be increased (decreased) if the sell price is increased (decreased). This suggests that the taxable payment is about 257.46. So, it's highly unlikely that the taxes amount to 1096.11. Something obviously isn't right.
Did you have any dealer installed options because dealer installed options are usually not fully residualized. Another problem with TFS is that they don't residualize the destination charge or floor mats and so these are deducted from the MSRP. That, when added to the cost of residualized dealer installed options results in what is known as the Adjusted MSRP. This, when multiplied by the residual factor, yields the residual value.
I suggest that you check your lease contract. If you haven't taken delivery or signed your lease agreeement, I would recommend asking the dealer for their LEASE WORKSHEET. This is a computer generated document that will tell you everything and then some and will eliminate a lot of guess work.
If you have the lease contract or can secure the dealer's lease worksheet, I'll be happy to evaluate them if you like. Simply email them to me at...
diffeq@zoominternet.net
John
I am trying to help my parents to lease a 2010 Rav4 AWD Ltd. with evp #2.
They do not know much about the whole leasing process so am sure the dealer will have a field day if they just walk in uninformed.
MSRP is $32kish for the car they saw.
What should they expect to pay?
Located in NJ so 7% sales tax.
They are willing to put up to $2k for all sign off fees including tax etc.
I am assuming they should be able to get under $300/month given what I have read on this forum.
Any advise or help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
I'm pretty sure that Toyota does not fully residualize the MSRP as they deduct the destination charge and the charge for floor mats. Increased residual, all else constant, means lower payments.
John
2010 Rav 4 LTD V6 4x4 with val pack#2 and some other addons.
MSRP $32568
options : BC,QZ, TO, B3, CF, P7 (XM satellite radio kit )
Cap. cost $ 29945.14
aquisition fee $650
Doc $299
Taxes $852.52
All other fees(NJ reg and title) $421
Residual $19260
Money factor .00020
36 mo. / 12000 miles per year
$1000 out of pocket $336 per month ( tax incl.)
what do you guys think?
2) Should I expect the deals to get better in October (sell price at $1K or $2K below invoice) due to oversupply? The 2011 Rav4s are now at the dealers, and there are around a 1,000 2010 Rav4s within 50 miles of Boston according to Autotrader.com.
I leased on September , 2 in Staten Island Toyota 2010 Rav 4 LTD V6 4x4 with val pack 1 , camera etc.
Out of pocket $2184, monthly payment $345( incl tax) , residual $19184.
Where did you get this deal in NJ?
You mention that interest rate is 1.9%. Usually with leases the interest rate is quoted as a Money Factor. 1.9% corresponds to a Money Factor of about 0.0008 which is four time higher than the money factor that toyota is offering in New York and other parts of the country. I think the money factor is the same everywhere of 0.0002.
Also, ask the dealer for the cap cost used to calculate the lease. This should be close to the factory invoice price ($29118) which you can look up on Edmunds or on Truecar.com. For this car, if you ignore all taxes and fees, your monthly payment should be about $315 with no money down. You can then use the $2000 to pay taxes and fees if you want. Alternatively, you can roll the taxes and fees into your lease payment and still be paying less than the quote you received and keep the $2000.
I got my Rav4 Sport 4 cylinder in April with 0 down and my payment is $270 a month.
Right now we are about to start a family and we need a bigger car. We are hoping to get some sort of crossover or small SUV for the BEST price possible. I'm not really picky about what brand/type of car- just looking for the best lease deals at 15K miles we can find. We need the payment to be under 300/month no matter what car we get and if we can put down no more that $500 total in cash that would be great.
Keep in mind...Toyotathon should be coming up soon so prices should be better.
Thanks. (great forum, btw)
Toyota removed the .0002 MF on the 2010's. I don't know what they are now. CarMan?
MF on the 2011's was lowered from .001 to .00085.
and the residual on a 2011 4x4 4cyl limited 15/yr is 61.2%.
There is also a new $500 rebate on the '11's but can't use for lease.
I think I will wait a couple of weeks.
Lease a new 2011 RAV4 for $0 Due at Signing!
$259.00 per month for 36 months
$0 due at signing
Offer Ends 11/30/2010
Lease a new 2011 Rav4 for $259 a month for 36 months with $0 due at signing, which includes $0 down, $0 first month's payment and $0 security deposit. Example based on model #4432. Base MSRP excluding freight is $24,255. Monthly payments of $259 for 35 months total $9,065. Capitalized cost of $24,150 based on down payment and dealer participation which may vary by dealer. Lease-end purchase option is $16,061. Lease does not include taxes, license, title fees, acquisition fee, insurance, regionally required equipment and other dealers’ charges are extra and not included in the amounts shown. Closed-end lease. Payment may vary depending upon final transaction price. Customer responsible for maintenance, excess wear and tear and $0.15 per mile over 12,000 miles per year. To qualified Tier I+ customers through Toyota Financial Services. Must take retail delivery by 11/30/10.
$289 month (and only $289 a month, nothing else)
45,000 miles
No money down
Monthly payment includes all title, dealer and registration fees, and all taxes.
(btw sales tax in Mas is 6.25%).
Does this sound good?
259 + fees is that factory deal
fees should be around 720 for example
that converts to $20 more a month - straight math
another $18 a month for upgrade from 12k to 15k miles
and tax too
take it if you like the vehicle and tell us your happiness with a new RAV4
Any idea what the new December money factor and residuals are on a '11 4x4 4cyl rav4 ltd, 15k/year lease.
In Michigan.
Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks.
2011 RAV4
Sticker price is $26,518
Cap Cost (negotiated) is $24,314.31
Residual after 36 months is $16,786.00
Money Factor Tier 1 being used is 0.00095
My state tax is 7%
0 cap cost reduction
0 security deposit
0 disposition fee
Monthly quote is $280.00 a month with tax included
and $1200.00 due at signing to cover $650 aquisition fee, $239.00 DOC fee, and $280.00 1st months payment.
I can add GAP insurance for $15 extra a month for a monthly payment at $295
is GAP really necessary or a scam to spend more money?
I also got my hands on the dealer invoice which is $24,681.08
2. - GM, Honda, Ford all include the GAP insurance in the monthly lease payment; only Toyota, in my experience makes it an extra.
3. Those two fees of $650 and $289 are questionable, but, in my experience, unavoidable. It's still a decent deal.
2011 Rav4 Ltd 4wd 4cyl Black Forest Pearl (awesome looking color) ash leather interior with backup camera, mudguards and floormats
no gap ins. or extended warranty.
3yrs, 15k miles/year
MSRP: $29,368
Zag Price: $26,420
Acquisition fee: 650
Doc fee: 250
title, reg, lic: 15
Total capitalized: 27,335
Money factor: .00085
Residual: @62% or $17,810
Down: $321.13
per month $321.13
2011 Rav4 MSRP: 24255
CAP COST: 23860
$1,999 due at signing ($1,800 down, $199 first month's payment and $0 security deposit.)
Monthly payments of $199
Residual is $16,061.
Taxes (8%): $573
Registration,Title,Inspection: 272.50
Lease Acquisition Fee: $650
Adding that to the due at signing ($1999): $3495
or
$267/month including all taxes, fees.
Thoughts?
That $199 deal is to get you in the door. On a 36 month lease for every $1000 down reduces the monthly fee to $27.78. So if you take $27.78 X 2 = $55.56 + $199 = $254.56 monthly payment before tax.
Can you please provide the December MF and Residual for a 2011 RAV4 Limited 2WD for 36 months? We're considering both the 4-cylinder and the V6, if that makes a difference. And we're also considering 12k miles/yr and 15k miles/yr.
What is the acquisition fee for Toyota? I've read $650 and $895. And is the disposition fee $350? (I'm in NC, part of SET, if that makes a difference.)
And does Toyota offer a Multiple Security Deposit option? If so, what is the max number of deposits, and how much does each reduce the MF?
Thanks!
I am hoping you can help me out (because I don't really have a clue what I'm doing). I want to lease the new RAV4 2011. I'm considering the Sports edition and the Limited edition with Nav. Here are the figures the dealer has given me:
SPORT
MSRP: 25,880
Invoice: 24,471
Selling Price: 24,671
Residual: 15,820 ( 3yrs, 36 months)
Acquisition: 650
Money factor: .00165
Doc Fees: 55
Tax: 9.5% (San Francisco)
Limited Edition
MSRP: $28,509
Invoice:$ 26,977
Selling Price: 27,277
Residual: 16,921- (3yrs, 36 months)
Acquisition: 650
Money factor: .00165
Doc Fees: 55
Tax: 9.5% (San Francisco)
"For 2011 Toyota RAV4 2WD Ltd in Blizzard Pearl , your Direct Sales price is $27,030 Lease with $2,499Drive Off Your Monthly is $353.43 Special Lease
(expire 01/03/11)."
By reading above posts I realized it's way too high!!! Let's communicate about changes on price! From what I know usually it will be a slow time for dealers on Jan-Feb, so they should be happy about us going in!!!
2011 Rav4 FWD, 4cyl, Silver with Charcoal interior
Base model with Extra Value Package, Tonneau Cover, and Premium Carpet Mat Set add-ons
3yrs, 12K miles/yr
MSRP: $23209
Invoice Price: $22434
Sales Price: $22284
Capped Fees: $650..... (?)
Total Taxes: $780
Lic/Reg Upfront: $40
Upfront Fees: $173.50.......(?)
Amount Due at Signing: $484.95
Base Monthly Rental: $250
Total Monthly Payment: $270
I actually decided against the RAV4 and instead am leasing a Hyundai Santa Fe.
Good luck!
Cayden