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Comments
You can't expect one car to perform significantly better relative to its EPA rating than another car on the same route.
And the Yaris - how many days have you been driving it? You need at least 3-4 days of the same type of driving to compare apples to apples. It's the high time percentage of driving with a cold engine that's killing your MPG (on both your Tribute AND your Focus). In other words, many short trips versus fewer long trips is bad for fuel economy.
It is not a "recall" you're talking about, it's an "FSA" which means it's voluntary. If you're talking about the forum "focusfanatics", there are many on there who've had it done and 99% praise the results. They love it. I haven't seen anyone complain of reduced fuel economy afterwards.
In regards to the Yaris I've had it for 3 days driving the same route and actually more aggressive and have seen better gas mileage, 26MPG, what I expect to see from my focus based on the posted MPG, so please explain.
"Recall" is what the dealer called it and they didn't say that it was voluntary.
You've had the Yaris for 3 days which means you're probably reading 26 mpg from the on board computer, which can often be way off on most cars. When you fill it up exactly as you filled it up to begin with (assuming you did) and calculate the mileage, you may find it's only 23-24. But wouldn't you expect the Yaris to get much better mileage than the Focus? The Yaris is 10% shorter, weighs 20% less and has 33% less horsepower. I sure hope it gets better fuel economy or the world is coming to an end.
As far as the on board computer goes, its accurate. I've been keeping track of my MPG and it aligns with it.
All I'm saying is I keep hearing oh its how you drive or when you drive or what you have on etc. And all I'm saying is that if those EPA numbers aren't real, then they should be changed. Period.
I have a co-worker who has a 2010 Focus that drives much more harder and aggressive and get better MPG then I do and was quite surprised as well.
Anyways I'm not bashing I'm just asking around.
How can you have checked the Yaris's computer with a fill up and hand calculation if you've only had it 3 days?
The EPA numbers are real - for most people. One number is not going to cover everybody. Most posters on focusfanatics report beating the EPA numbers consistently, including me.
And if you took the time to read it you'll notice the EPA sticker has a range of ratings. The Focus's city rating says "Expected range for most drivers 22 to 32". So you're on the bottom end of that range. So the EPA ratings don't need to be changed just because you can't achieve them due to your short city commute.
That's it. And that scenario holds perfectly true in your Tribute / Focus comparison.
Look, I'd like to continue to help you understand but I'm exhausted and frankly I don't think you're going to get it.
Best of luck to ya........
You're comparison is apples to oranges. Like your previous example comparing the focus to the yaaris. In that comparison you stated that the Yaaris was lighter and shorter thus giving me the extra MPG. The tribute has a much bigger engine and is all wheel drive and is much heavier.
I should expect to get at least 25MPG in the focus compared to the tribute based on the EPA City average not the bottom of the barrel.
I do agree I think its time to move on from this conversation.
l8.
Beware though, my dash calculator has been consistently about 1-2 mpg too high. You may actually be looking at around 35 mpg, which is still good especially if you're driving fairly aggressively as you allude to doing.
I have the DCT and while it did have some early growing pains it has smoothed out (normal break in?) and works pretty much flawlessly now.
How have your MPG been now that your car has been more "broken-in" since new? Still love your car with no regrets?
how many miles do you have on the car? I have 2300 and am averaging about 21 with mostly city driving. I'm with you I was hoping to get at least 25MPG for city but it doesn't seem to be getting that.
One important trick to remember is to coast to lights or stop signs whenever possible. As soon as you see a light up ahead turn yellow start coasting. That shuts off the fuel and gives you free distance, greatly increasing your mpg.
I'm getting 33 mpg in suburban commuting, some long stretches of 40-60mph road but also lots of stops and some city driving at the other end.
I previosly exceeded mpg on a Mazda3 with a four cylinder engine. Hopefully my mileage of average 29.48 will improve with the adjustments Ford did for my focus se hatcbback. That rating was an average of 5 fillups of 100% gasoline with 80% driving on 4 lane highway. I'm hoping for the best! They did get my sync system to operating properly so that was an improvemet.
In my experience with my cars it does. The 4-banger just generally has to work harder to move that mass around town. And to run the a/c.
"Besides, I haven't heard the spokesperson for Ford give stipulations to the 40 mpg that they advertise on their brand."
Ha ha, that's funny. When have you ever heard a manufacturer make real world stipulations about the EPA ratings of their cars? That's the reason for the lawsuits surrounding the Honda Civic electric and the Hyundai Elantra.
"I previosly exceeded mpg on a Mazda3 with a four cylinder engine. Hopefully my mileage of average 29.48 will improve with the adjustments Ford did for my focus se hatcbback. That rating was an average of 5 fillups of 100% gasoline with 80% driving on 4 lane highway. I'm hoping for the best! "
Well you're exceeding the Focus's city rating anyway. Depends on how many stops you have on the 4-lane highway - are you talking about an interstate or a suburban/country road? Mileage will improve over the first couple thousand miles as the tires wear down a little and the engine internals break in, reducing friction.
maybe I just got a bad one??????
For those of you getting in the thirties can you honestly tell me that you were getting only 19 when you first bought the car?
I purchased this car based on the published EPA numbers and figured I'd get close to them but not entirely miss them. I do most of my driving in the city and I get between 20-21. When I do highway I may get about 27. I've tracked my mileage since April and I'm averaging about 21 MPG with 2400 miles on the car. I love this car I do but the mileage currently sucks. Once it reaches 3K I'm turning it over to the dealer to have them really look at it.
which model Focus do you have? I have the Titanium.
I leave pissed. As I am about to leave he stops me and tries to talk to me. He says I am computing it wrong and I am getting a combined 22 mpg (first of all i am not wrong, second even if he is right, [he isn't, btw] big whoop on 22 mpg combined.) He tells me that I am not understanding the point. I told him that I am very intelligent and that he is treating me like a [non-permissible content removed]. He says very angrily, "there is just no talking to you!!!!!" I said, "You're an [non-permissible content removed], hows that?" and left.
So I was almost out of gas and being very stupid decide to run to empty to get a real gas mileage reading. I ran out of gas at 249 miles from the last fill up. Btw that includes 80 miles of straight highway at 60-65 mph driving. So I have exact numbers but I am being unreasonable because I refuse to wait for the car to break in. A mechanic at the dealership actually said it would take up to 9000 miles to get the car broken in.
He said it was a learning transmission and that I needed to understand that. (the sales manager not the mechanic said that. )
Anyway this is my last post on the subject until I get 3000 miles on the car. Either that or trade it in before that. I will let you guys know.
Honestly I hope I am wrong and the car gets 30 mpg combined. in this case my wallet saving gas money trumps my ego on being right!!!!!! But in the meantime, Ford owes me some gas money!!!!!
I;d actually like to stay in contact with you as I am having the EXACT same issue. Just not sure how to go about doing this. This forum doesn't seem to allow for private messages??
Ron.
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=294273
Maybe you could join and post in that thread.
Btw, everybody I don't want to hate my Focus. I am just concerned especially after talking to a lot of other Focus owners who are in the same boat as me (not just here)
The Focus SE finished 12th in it's class. The City mileage? 18 mpg!!!!! To be fair the highway mileage was outstanding at 43. But most of my driving is city. Not only city but the worst driving conditions you can imagine: Lots of traffic, a TON of stoplights insane hills, tunnels inside of mountains that produce long lines of just waiting and terrible merge points that tie up and/or slow down traffic.
As far as the car "breaking in", I am a firm believer that the very most improvement on mileage after the car is broken in is 20%. Not enough to satisfy because the only reason I bought the car was to save on gas.
The second thing was that the car (once again) sputtered and hesitated going up a steep hill. Despite its 160 horses, the car just doesn't have the oomph needed for my driving. It was "funny" to see the avg mpg on the computer go down several miles as I was going up the hill.
I just don't like the transmission.
Third was pulling on to the main street from my neighborhood. There is a sharp bend on the main road right where we need to pull out. So you need to make sure it is clear as best you can and then press on the gas and go. Hesitated again, and a car was coming around the bend very fast. Not a comfortable situation.
So, I said screw it. I drove to the Toyota dealer and traded it in for a Corolla. It had the best combination of price and "real world" city mpg that I could get. I lost some on the Focus but with the finance rate I got, The payment was only a little higher. I did put a thousand down, though. That sucked because I put 1500 down on the Focus. The dealer offered a lifetime powertrain warranty though.
To be fair, I have a 2007 Focus that I beat pretty good and it gets very good mileage and has more than suffecient power. It has 60k miles on it. I use it for work (mostly my head cook uses it,tbh) This 2012 is nowhere near that car. Second, I just don't think this was the right car for me and my driving conditions. If I was on a flat land with less stop and go I am sure I would have done better.
After 5 full days I am happy with the Corolla. I will post my ending mileage on the first full tank when it gets to zero. According to the computer I am on pace for 340 miles on a 13.2 gallon tank. This is the same city driving I did with the Focus (without the straight 80 highway miles.) My guess is going to be about 310-320 when it is said and done. So that means 60- 70 miles more on a .8 gallon bigger tank. It has suffecient power for the little engine it has and I can drive without worrying about having to "baby" it or put in 93 Octane gas.
This is my first Toyota. I hope it lives up to my expectations. So far so good but we will see.
I would love it if you could do an unimotional comparison of the Corolla and the Focus over a few tanks of gas and document that you get significantly better gas mileage with the EXACT driving habits and routes. That would be very interesting. Because as I showed you on focusfanatics.com, the Corolla is just as subject to getting low fuel economy as the Focus is in extreme city driving conditions.
If you look on fuelly.com, the overall average mileage of current gen Focus owners is slightly more than the overall average mileage of current gen Corolla owners, even given the Focus's significantly higher horsepower and much better driving dynamics.
Regarding the consumer reports data you found, the more important number to most folks is the combined overall mileage they got with the Focus. It was right in the middle of the compact class despite the Focus having the most horsepower and quickest acceleration (according to CR testing) of the class. That's pretty impressive.
Based on all this it seems clear to me that either you will get low fuel economy with any car you drive because of your particular route and habits, or there was something mechanically wrong with your particular Focus that could have eventually been solved.
The thing is, if you remember my posts on the other site, the ONLY reason I bought the car was for the mileage. So I figured if I wouldn't get the mileage I didn't want a car that I didn't like.
I 100% agree that I can get a bad car from anybody. I do agree that there may have been something wrong with that Focus. The problem is getting Ford or the dealer to understand and appreciate my concerns was a losing battle. Only the salesman cared at the dealer and at Ford, nobody cared at all.
I didn't want to post on the other forum because the name of it is "focusfanatics," I figure I would get lambasted there. I guess you saw that somebody else posted the same stuff I did about the mileage.
There is no emotion left in me on the subject. I'm cool. It's over. I will post more when I go through a whole tank of gas. The thing is though, even if the mileage ends up being the same I think I will be happier with the Corolla because of the performance.
Reminder--- I really like my 2007 Focus. I don't hate Ford and it pained me to buy a Japanese car. I respect that Ford is American and they didn't take bail out money. Plus the Ford dealer is a mile away from my house. I wanted it to work. Plus the interior is nicer on the Focus and I also like the exterior look of it over the Corolla.
Last thing about dealing with Ford...... they seemed relieved to get rid of me as a customer. No help at all. They ignored my requests to speak to anyone with any kind of power, not even their immediate supervisor.
The dealer was no help at all.
With my hectic life (mom and pop restaurant owner [75 hours a week] with two young children) sometimes it is easier for me to throw money on the problem rather than wait for the solution.
Well I sympathize with you on that. It usually is tough to work fighting with a dealer into a busy schedule. Sounds like you got a bad dealer though. Might've been worth it to try another.
Not sure how the Corolla's performance can compare given it's got 128 hp and 4 speeds versus the Focus's 160 hp and 6 speeds. Your Focus's dual clutch automatic may have been a little sluggish during break in (e.g. going up the hill you mentioned) but most owners report that it smooths out and performs great over time, and performs much better than any conventional torque converter automatic (e.g. the Corolla's).
Even Edmunds says the Corolla has "mediocre acceleration and fuel economy."
Anyways, best of luck to you and your family. Don't know if you considered it but the thousands $$$ you say you lost on the trade would have paid for a lot of the gas you think the Focus uses in excess of the Corolla.
It was lovely on the highway though, and returned a combined FE of nearly 42mpg in 25/75 driving (city/highway, respectively).
It was lovely on the highway though, and returned a combined FE of nearly 42mpg in 25/75 driving (city/highway, respectively)."
LOL, I am from Pittsburgh!!!! Mogantown is about 75 miles south from me. Pgh is like Morgantown on steroids and lots of them. Plus we have those tunnels, etc....
It's funny to me the statement you made because i kept on saying that where I live this car NEEDS to be a real manual transmission, not this automatically controlled stick !!!! I never said anything because I thought people wouldn't understand and think I was crazy or stupid!!!!!
I flew into Pittsburgh (my first time there, even though my wife is from Meadville), and drove to Morgantown and back. I specifically requested the Fiesta because I'm considering it to buy and thought this would work out as an extended test drive (though I wouldn't consider buying an automatic, regardless of type).
I was surprised at how hilly the area was. Even on the interstate, there were some pretty decent grades. The problem with the transmission is that it operates like a manual, but it cannot anticipate conditions like a driver can - it only reacts. I swear I would have ended up with whiplash had I driven through many more dimly-lit parking garages at 5mph. Also, it certainly didn't seem overly responsive off an initial start, at least from my perspective having driven "slushbox" automatics at various times in the past. Once you started it moving, though, it would get up and go pretty well. I generally let off the brake, let the car engage some forward momentum for a second, then get into it.
Aside from the transmission, the car was really fantastic. It was quiet, well-planted, peppy-ish (much more so with the MT), good visibility, and great fuel economy.
I'm looking at the Focus now, too, though, since they now offer it throughout the trim levels with a MT. And, it is only rated a couple MPG lower on FE than the Fiesta, but with quite a bit more cargo volume.
"Well I sympathize with you on that. It usually is tough to work fighting with a dealer into a busy schedule. Sounds like you got a bad dealer though. Might've been worth it to try another."
Thanks
Spoken like a true lifelong manual driver. You just described every slushbox in 95% of cars sold, like, ever.
Now I understand the dual clutch transmission is not at its best in some circumstances, particularly bumper to bumper traffic. But hilly terrain? You guys do realize most Focuses (except for the basic stripped down models) come with Select Shift, or manual shifting mode? So that you, the driver can anticipate upcoming hills and downshift as appropriate? Seems like that would've solved the problem of the hilly terrain.
The dual clutch is a bit different than many other automatics, including CVTs, in that it has an "engage" vs. "disengage" aspect. That's the primary problem with transitioning from a stop or going at extremely slow speeds. When starting, it has a delay in engagement from the moment of input, and at very slow speeds, it quickly does an engage/disengage cycling that can be noticeably felt. It isn't harsh, per se, but I sure found it annoying. I guess the best way to describe both issues is that the car doesn't feather the clutch.
Like I said, it worked well for me overall, and it didn't have any problems traversing hilly terrain. The hilly terrain in a city environment just made the start/stop traits more pronounced. My opinion is that the DCT automatic is the worst transmission choice for John's driving conditions.
The main benefit is fuel economy and feeling more connected to the engine. Look at the new Dart with its similar 160hp 2L engine BUT conventional 6-speed automatic - it's only rated at 24/27/34 mpg versus the Focus's 28/31/38.
Ford's Select Shift is standard on most Focus trim levels / option packages. I imagine it would be perfect for hilly terrain where you'd want to downshift before you get to the uphill grade.
Paddle shifters are nice for allowing additional driver input into the selected ratio.
I like the frequent inclusion of "manumatic" modes on today's automatic transmission choices, especially when it is my car (in other words, I use it day in and day out rather than just a test drive or rental), but it isn't a substitute for a manual transmission.
When the FE numbers are significantly higher on the automatic, though, such as on the new Subaru offerings, it sure makes me pause and justify how much I prefer the MT as compared to the potential hit I'll take at the pump over the long term.
Some of the differences, like with the Focus, are negligible if any. Others, like with Subaru, are likely to be reflected in real world experience. With the right gearing, though, that would never be an issue.