Nissan Versa

flightnurse · February 2007

Yes, this is true what was written, But in the last 3 years nissan as revamped the entire line up. Currently the Maurno is the only car in the line up that is the oldest vichael that needs to be redone. That is due to be redone in 08, also Nissan is coming out with the Rouge in Nov 07 as a 08 which well give Nissan a small car based SUV.

If nissan comes out with a SE-R version of the Versa with say, 150-175hp, they well have a homerun..

backy · February 2007

Some of us aren't looking for a high-performance version of the Versa. We'd be very happy if Nissan were to fix the problems on the current car, make it more fuel-efficient (a VVT engine perhaps), and maybe make the rear seat on the hatchback more practical for cargo hauling. IMO that would be a home run.

flightnurse · February 2007

I really don't think VVT or (variable timing) would improve the MPG, what Varible timing does is make more HP...

Tony

P.S. Again, the EPA is the one who posted the mileage on the windows not Nissan, they are just following what th e GOverments says the car should get..

backy · February 2007

Somehow other automakers such as Toyota and Honda have figured out how to apply VVT for a good blend of power and high fuel economy. And Nissan too! For example, the Altima 2.5 with CVVT delivers 175 hp compared to 122 for the Versa, and powers a much heavier car, yet the Altima gets only 2 mpg less (EPA combined ratings on the new scale) than the Versa. And the Sentra, which also has CVVT, has 140 hp and is heavier than the Versa, yet the Sentra's EPA combimed fuel economy is the same as the Versa's.

jacksan1 · February 2007

The variable timing can and does play a huge role in the efficiency of the engine, and thus, with a right setting, provides both a higher horsepower AND a better mileage. What variable timing permits is for the engine not to be locked into one side of the RPM band to run with efficiency, be it on the low RPM side or the high RPM side. If a given engine can perform in its most efficient intake and exhaust mode across a wider band, which is what the variable timing technology tries to provide, then given all things equal, it will consume less fuel moving the same load.

Manufactures can use the same techology to squeeze every bit of horsepower, that is true. But the technology is flexible enough to be able to squeeze maximum fuel efficiency while also providing good day-to-day torque and horsepower availability, if that is the valve setting that is chosen.

flightnurse · February 2007

really go look on the Ridgeline group as well as the Pilot group they are getting lower MPG. It happens, and sitting on this forum beating a dead horse isn't chaning anything

backy · February 2007

I think you are mixing up threads here. I'm not complaining about the Versa not getting its EPA ratings in real-world conditions. I'm saying I'd like it if the Versa's EPA ratings were higher. Nissan knows how to do it, as evidenced by their putting a more powerful engine into a heavier car (Sentra) that gets the same EPA fuel economy overall as the Versa. I'd like to see Nissan work on that instead of putting effort into a low-volume, high-power SE-R variant of the Versa. And work on cold-weather starting, the step-up on the folded back seat, and maybe standard ABS. What a great little car THAT would be!

mschmal · February 2007

Nissan choose to keep costs down by not using VVT. Efficiency is helped by the "micro finish".

Mark.

backy · February 2007

Is this micro finish unique to the Versa? Do other Nissans, or competitors, have something similar?

I wonder how much VVT costs to add it to a car like the Versa? Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai/Kia seem to be able to afford it in their low-end cars.

carzzz · February 2007

VVT = Variable Value Timing

http://www.nissanusa.com/versa/specifications_hatch.html

Continuously Variable Valve Timing Control System (CVTCS)
is standard on all Versa!

Maybe you visited a different website!

carzzz · February 2007

VVT = Variable Value Timing

http://www.nissanusa.com/versa/specifications_hatch.html

Continuously Variable Valve Timing Control System (CVTCS)
is standard on all Versa!

Maybe you visited a different website!

backy · February 2007

It seems there is confusion about whether the Versa has VVT or not. Take a look at this:

http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/future_cars/nissan_versa_2007.html

or this:

http://blogs.automobilemag.com/1006286/car-ramblings-reviews/nissan-versa-18-s-h- atchback/index.html

But it looks like the Versa does indeed have CVVT. So now the question is: How come a 1.8L engine with CVVT--and micro-finishing--gets only 122 hp and mediocre EPA ratings, while Honda's and Toyota's CVVT engines of the same size have more power plus better fuel economy?

mschmal · February 2007

My bad, I guess you can't believe everything you read online.

The Versa 1.8L does have CVVT on the intake side.

I don't know what Honda or Toyota engines you are talking about as the Versa is bigger than the engines in the Fit and Yaris and has more HP than both.

Also the Versa is featured in my favorite TV show, Heroes.

Mark

bamacar · February 2007

than the Corolla and Civic. Both engines have more power and still get better gas mileage.

mschmal · February 2007

The Versa is:
122 hp and 127 lbft of torque
30/36 mpg with CVT
13.2 g fuel tank
Combined mpg is 33, range is 435 miles

The Fit is:
109 hp and 105 lbft of torque. 12% less hp and 21% less torque.
31/37 mpg with 5 speed automatic.
3% more city and 3% more highway.
10.8 g fuel tank, 2.4 g less than Versa
Combined mpg is 34, range is 367 miles, 19% less than Versa!

The Focus is with manual trans:
136 hp and 136 lbft of torque. 11% more hp than Versa and 7% more torque than Versa.
27/37 mpg with 5 speed manual
11% more city less city than Versa and 3% more highway than Versa.
14 g fuel tank, 0.8 g greater than Versa.
Combined mpg is 32 mpg, range is 448, 3% more than Versa.

The Yaris is:
106 hp, 103 lbft of torque. 15% less hp than Versa 23% less torque!
34/39 mpg 13% more city than Versa and 5% more highway.
11.1 g fuel tank, 2.1 g less than Versa
Combined mpg is 36.5, range is 405m, 7% less than Versa.

Corolla and Civic are about 5k more than Versa.
After rebates, the Focus well with in the price range of Yaris, Fit, and Versa.

If you look at over all specs, with the Versa having more room inside, it looks like the best value for the dollar. The Focus though is still a strong competitor with people who are not design conscious.

jacksan1 · February 2007

I think bamacar was comparing the horsepower of the Versa with that of the Corolla and Civic. You can get a well-equipped Corolla for a little over $17k (at least, where I am).

By the way, the absolute range comparision to me is meaningless. What if a car had a 100-gallon tank and got 10 MPG? That's a range of 1,000 miles, but....

mschmal · February 2007

Most people think of fuel econ in terms of how often they have to stop for gas. Range makes a difference.

Mark.

jacksan1 · February 2007

Most people think of fuel econ in terms of how often they have to stop for gas. Range makes a difference.

Range is a factor, psychologically. Nevertheless, while this is just my opinion, I think most people ultimately think of fuel economy in terms of how much they are paying for the fuel to go a given distance. That's why getting a 1,000 mile-range out of a car with a 100-gallon tank that gets 10 MPG is not likely to be perceived to be a good fuel economy property.

backy · February 2007

Corolla and Civic are about 5k more than Versa.

Not nearly. For example, Civic LX has an Edmunds TMV of $17,477. Versa SL with ABS and mats (standard on Civic LX) has a TMV of $15,565--less than $2000 difference. Corolla CE with side airbags has an Edmunds TMV of $14,141 including a $750 rebate. Versa S has a TMV of $13,138, about a $1000 difference.

bamacar · February 2007

I did say Corolla and Civic and here goes:

With the comparable transmission available in all the models that is manual of course in an economy car:

The Versa is:
122 hp and 127 lbft of torque
30/34 mpg
13.2 g fuel tank
Combined mpg is 32, range is 422 miles

The Fit is:
109 hp and 105 lbft of torque. 12% less hp and 21% less torque.
33/38 mpg
10% more city and 12% more highway.
10.8 g fuel tank, 2.4 g less than Versa
Combined mpg is 35.5, range is 383 miles, 9% less than Versa.

Civic
140 hp and 128 lbft of torque. 15% more hp and same torque.
30/38 mpg
same city and 12% more highway than Versa.
13.2 g fuel tank, same as Versa
Combined mpg is 34, range is 449 miles, 6% more than Versa!

The Focus is with manual trans:
136 hp and 136 lbft of torque. 11% more hp than Versa and 7% more torque than Versa.
27/37 mpg with 5 speed manual
11% less city than Versa and 9% more highway than Versa.
14 g fuel tank, 0.8 g greater than Versa.
Combined mpg is 32 mpg, range is 448, 6% more than Versa.

The Yaris is:
106 hp, 103 lbft of torque. 15% less hp than Versa 23% less torque!
34/40 mpg 13% more city than Versa and 20% more highway.
11.1 g fuel tank, 2.1 g less than Versa
Combined mpg is 37, range is 411m, 3% less than Versa.

The Corolla is:
126 hp, 122 lbft of torque. 3% more hp than Versa 6% less torque!
32/41 mpg 7% more city than Versa and 21% more highway.
13.2 g fuel tank, same as Versa
Combined mpg is 36.5, range is 482m, 14% more than Versa.

Corolla and Civic are more than Versa. Corolla has a rebate and is sold at invoice all the time. A top of the model line LE is about $14- $15.5k all the time. A Civic is about $16 -18k which is significantly more but not 5k more.

By your standard, the Corolla is easily the economy winner here equal in pure power, far better mpg, and a far greater range than Versa. A full 21% better highway mileage. The Yaris with less power kills it in mpg with almost the same range. The Fit with less power kills it in mpg but with a shorter range. The Civic has better highway mileage, greater range, and far more horsepower.

jacksan1 · February 2007

And additionally, and this seems to happen a lot, a comparison of bare horsepower is not particularly meaningful, either, since what's the point of having 1,000 HP if the car weighs 100,000 pounds (kind of extreme illustration, I know, but I hope it gets the point across)?

Here is a comparison of the power to weight ratio (below is actually WtP), which I think is more meaningful to see:

Versa Hatchback SL CVT: 22.78 lbs/hp (2779 lbs/122 hp)

Civic LX AT: 19.65 lbs/hp (2751 lbs/140 hp)

Corolla LE AT: 20.75 lbs/hp (2615 lbs/126 hp)

Given all other things equal, this shows that the Versa's engine has to work the hardest among the three (3) vehicles because each horsepower has more weight assigned to it. It makes sense - the Versa weighs the most, and has the least horpower of the trio (in reality, the torque and torque characteristics play a major role as well, but we will omit that here).

bobw3 · February 2007

Just some comments on several previous posts:

You won't find a Corolla CE with side airbags or ABS in the real world, so you'll have to move up to the LE if you want the saftey features.

Honda and the Fit specifically have a much higher reliability rating than Nissan or the Versa. You can just compare the Fit and Versa forums to confirm that point.

The Versa without ABS is a real loser when it comes to braking and the Fit's steering and driving manners felt a lot better to me after several test drives in both vehicles.

The Fit's magic seats create a much larger cargo area behind the 3rd row, and a much more usable cargo area when you fold the 2nd row. The "refresh" position is also really comfortable.

People seem to be getting mileage closer to the EPA estimates with the Fit over the Versa.

On the Versa's positive side, it does have more room in the 2nd row, and has a few more comfort features. The Fit isn't perfect, but I'm still glad I bought the Fit over the Versa.

mschmal · March 2007

Best bet is to buy a 1 or 2 yr old Civic with low miles.

Mark.

tallahassee · March 2007

Is the driving experience with the CVT a big plus over the regular automatic? If so, what is the difference? At the moment, in Tallahassee, the sedan (which is what I want) is only available with the automatic. In short, I'm wondering if the CVT is worth waiting for---especially since it's more expensive.

flightnurse · March 2007

The difference is like Night and Day. The CVT is SO smooth, there are no shift shock at all. Just step on the gas and go and go and go. It feels weird at first but I love it. Drive a Hatchback with the CVT same unit...

lemonhater · March 2007

I test drove the automatic but bought the CVT. Honestly the automatic was not bad just about average. The CVT has it good points and bad points. On a whole it is smoother, but there is a sort of rubber band effect (i.e. you press the gas and it doesnt go much faster then whom) The CVT defiantly is something you have to get used to. I am not sure if the CVT alone is worth the extra price if that is all your getting. Drive it first to see if it is worth it. At times the CVT does feel odd but you get used to it.

I bought the SL sedan but I wanted 60/40 split seats (which dont come with the S sedan, but do with the hatchback). I am sorta prejudiced against hatchbacks(although the Yaris and the Versa hatchback are nice enough looking for me to consider them). I might have bought the hatchback if the sedan was not available. However the folding rear seat in my old Trecel was quite a handy feature that I wanted to have in any future small car if possible. I also wanted a slightly upscale version of any car I would buy(i.e. I wasnt looking for barebones).

My favorite thing about the car is the very adjustable seat, the interior space, the convenience package with its intelligent key system, and the six cd changer/radio with controls on the wheel. And its peppiness. You want beat a sports car in it, but it has more than enough peppiness to handle a short on ramp.

The only dislikes are the road feel(kinda numb but then again it takes bumps better than the trecelbut unlike the trecel doesnt give a lot of road feel). The tires seem to be either cheap OR selected for fuel efficiency. They dont have a lot of grip. The brakes are a little weak, but they are not weak enough to be a major issue(sorta like I wish it had more braking power, but it does have enough for me not to worry about it).

I was mostly interested in the seats, but the 6 cd changer and the convenience package were not a bad thing either. So far even with the dislikes, love the thing. Lots of space, nice interior and cool features.

bobw3 · March 2007

Best bet is to buy a 1 or 2 yr old Civic with low miles.

I've seen one or two year old Civics advertised for nearly the price of a new one! I'll keep my new Honda Fit.

tallahassee · March 2007

tallahassee · March 2007

I'm interested in buying the Versa sedan SL with CVT and the ABS package. According to Edmunds.com, $16,379 (that's before taxes, title and tag) is what "others" in my area of the country are paying for the car. If you've purchased a similar Versa, is that about what it cost you? Any comments (good or bad) on the suggested price tag or the car itself, will be greatly appreciated.

pixel1 · March 2007

That's a good price. 2 weeks ago purchased an SL w/ABS and the CVT in Oregon for 16485 (plus 102 for title). If you find one, go for it -- it's a great little car!

tallahassee · March 2007

Other than the CVT and ABS, did you get "any" additional options on your car (floor mats, etc.)? Also, what was the total OTD (out the door) cost of your Versa? As of now you've told me you paid a base price of $16,485 plus $102 for the title. Out of curiosity, I'd like to know what the Oregon tax added and if you got hit for any other charges that you haven't mentioned. In short, I want to be able to approach this purchase armed with enough information that I can negotiate a fair price. I'm really tired of dealers telling me that they can't possibly sell a vehicle for a certain amount and still make enough profit to buy their kids a hamburger. Because of forums like this one, those statements can now be challenged. Let's face it, if you got a good deal and I'm buying the identical car, I should be able to get it for a similar price.
Again, any other information that you, or anyone else, can provide me with regarding this matter, will be appreciated. Hopefully, once I have my Versa, I'll be able to help someone else out with any questions they may have.

pixel1 · March 2007

tallahassee - I'm fortunate to live in a state with no sales tax, so my OTD price was
$16587. Breakdown as follows: MSRP 15550, splashguards 110, floormats 150, ABS 250 for total of 16675. I'd called various dealers within a couple hundred miles of us to tell them what we were interested in and what we were willing to pay (MSRP + delivery), and the guy in Medford worked to locate exactly what we wanted down in Calif; got it delivered within 10 days, and worked with us to get the price down to $16485 plus the $102 for title, so we ended up at the aforementioned $16587.
Hope you can work something out to get what you want at the right price.

mschmal · March 2007

the markup between dealer invoice and MSRP is about $300. Hold back is less than $500-600.

DO not expect to get a discount off of MSRP.

Mark.

tallahassee · March 2007

Thanks for the cost breakdown. Now that you've verified that the information on Edmunds.com is "reasonable", I'm much more comfortable with the price I'm willing to offer my local dealer. I just wish I still lived in Oregon (Springfield) and didn't have to add on the FL state tax.
Enjoy your car and hopefully I'll be driving my own Versa in the near future.

tallahassee · March 2007

All I expect is to pay a fair price. I agree that my cost should include the dealer making a "reasonable" profit. After all, he/she has bills to pay, too. However, since I grew up before computer forums and web sites like Edmunds.com became available, memories of my early car buying experiences still haunt me. I definitely got "taken" on numerous occasions. Luckily, I think I can now say those days are history.
Hopefully I have answered your question.
PS---By chance, are you a car dealer or do you work for one? If so, let me repeat some words of wisdom that I'm sure you've hear before. "A happy customer will likely be a return customer!" Also, a good "word of mouth" can sell a lot of cars.

dhauer · March 2007

The mark-up on a Versa is more than $300. Even in a absolute base model the difference between M.S.R.P. and invoice is around $600. The reason I know this is because I am sitting in my desk in the showroom looking at invoices of cars I have sitting on the lot. Other models have a much different pricing structure. For example we have an 06 Armada on the lot with a M.S.R.P of 42k. After rebates and removing all profit from the deal we can "give" that truck away for 34k. Anyway if anyone has questions about what a dealer can and cannot do just ask.

PF_Flyer · March 2007

I figured the markup was in that range. I've been dealing with the same salesman at my Datsun/Nissan dealership since 1979. he understands my position and I understand his,and we always come out with a deal that keeps us both happy. Price I got on my base model Versa was $13,675.

mschmal · March 2007

sorry, we have a $300 pack. So i mispoke.

Mark.

stickguy · March 2007

I haven't been following the Versa threads too closely, but seem to recall hearing grumbling about poor MPG.

Well, Road & Track did a comparison test of the Versa, Fit and Yaris this month. About what you would expect for conclusions (Versa is bigger, more of a "real car", tons of room, but the Fit is sportier with better interior materials).

The big surprise was the mileage they got (all manual trannies): Versa 32.2, Yaris 32.1, Fit 28.x (approx., since this is from memory).

THis included normal driving, some time on a small race track, performance testing. So maybe not what normal owners will do, but it does show what can happen when you wring out a smaller, higher revving engine.

backy · March 2007

This is the second time in this discussion that you have "misspoken" on this point, and the second time you have been corrected. I am glad we have some other Nissan salespeople contributing here, who provide accurate pricing information.

inharmsway · March 2007

lemonhater. I wonder if the cvt lag is less pronounced if you put the cvt in "low gear" or instead lock out the "overdrive" before you step on it to accelerate? I only went for a short test drive, and I cannot remember.
inharmsway

dhauer · March 2007

Versa SL Hatchback

Splash Gaurds
Convenience Package
Rear Spoiler
Floor Mats
Aluminum Kick Plate

M.S.R.P. 17565.00

I Can sell this car right now for $17,193 + tax title and license and still afford to keep the lights on and my family fed. That may not seem like much of a discount but the reality is that there is not that much of a markup on these particular models. The dealers are making the money on them with back end items like warranties.

Also here is a little story for all of you. This past Saturday we sold a Sentra to a young man. It was his first new vehicle. Had just graduated college and gotten his first "real" job. Brought his parents in, they were so proud. His mother told him not to get gap insurance for $400 because it was a scam. We tried our best to explain to him it was important but he would not take it. We took it off and he saved a few dollars a month on his payment. Well he signed everything, rang the gong in the showroom and walked out to his new car. No sooner than he pulled over the curb on to our street he was creamed by an SUV. Airbags deployed and his car was totaled. Now he is going to be in the hole on that car because he did not want to take the gap insurance we offered. When it comes down to it he would have saved a few hundred dollars over 5 years. Instead he is going to lose a few thousand in a matter of seconds. Evereyone wants to have a low payment but don't screw yourself in the long run by being excessively cheap.

p.s. I'm happy to help anyone who has questions but do me a favor and buy the car from me if you live anywhere near Michigan.

dtownfb · March 2007

If this truly happened (I have serious doubts), he should be fine. The only reason he would need Gap insurance is if the value of the car is less then his loan payoff. Not unless he rolled over negative equity into the loan or paid over MSRP (ha ha) or had some other funky "no early payment" clause, he should receive the full amount he paid for the car and pay off the principal of the loan. He may lose a few hundred dollars for the "dealer fees" but he'll start back at zero.

dhauer · March 2007

Do you honestly believe what you are saying? When that vehicle rolled over the curb it became a used car and lost value. If you think that any insurance adjuster will pay that vehicle off after it's left the dealership and still keep thier job then you obviously live in some sort of fairytale land. Hence the reason gap insurance exists and the manufacturers know enough to make sure it is included in every single lease vehicle given the fact that they technically still own them. As far as whether it really happened or not you are more than entitled to your doubt. It was first for me though and I've been doing this for 10 years. Prior to this the worst thing I ever saw happen to someone pulling off the lot was the front facia falling off of a Saleen mustang and the customer (a local radio d.j.) running it over. Anyway I am sure I am wrong and you are right considering your years of experience and the two thousand vehicles you have sold (oh wait that's me)

mschmal · March 2007

In NJ, you only end up paying for your deductable (if you were at fault) plus a fixed depreciation rate per mile driven.

(f) If the insured vehicle is a private passenger automobile of the current model year, meaning that the vehicle has not been
superseded in the market place by an officially introduced succeeding model, the insurer shall utilize one of the following
methods in the settlement of the loss, unless the utilization of (a) or (b) above is more favorable to the consumer.
1. Either the insurer shall pay the insured an amount equal to the reasonable purchase price on the date of the loss of a new
identical vehicle, less any applicable deductible and an allowance for depreciation in accordance with the schedule below;
or
2. The insurer shall provide the insured with a new identical replacement vehicle charging the insured for any applicable
deductible and for depreciation in accordance with the schedule below:
Depreciation Schedule
Purchase Price Depreciation per mile
Up to $ 6,500 $0.10
$ 6,501-$ 8,000 0.12
8,001- 10,000 015
10,001- 12,000 0.18
12,001- 15,000 0.21
15,001- 20,000 0.25
More than $20,000 0.29
(g) In the event of a total loss, any parts of the insured vehicle included in its valuation which are removed by the insured or
the designated representative shall have their value deducted from the final settlement figure. This section shall not be
construed to grant a right of removal.

I don't know how other states work.

Mark.

mschmal · March 2007

Gap insurance is a lease serves a different purpose. It protects the leaseor from a difference between the calculated residual at inception and a deficit at auction at the end of the lease.

dhauer · March 2007

Yeah insurance in New jersey is unlike insurance in pretty much every other state. The state of New Jersey screwed everything up when they tried to change to a government program. For a while there after the NJ Government screwed it all up State Farm would not even come back there. Not sure if they are finally back in the state yet.

garandman · March 2007

I've always liked small cars - although I don't fit in a lot of them. Lately I've been looking at mid-range and higher mid-sized sedans. But I was very impressed with the Versa.

Anyone driving a lot of business miles in one? Am I the only middle-aged male on the planet comparing an Infiniti G35 and a Versa?

dtownfb · March 2007

mschmal: Thank you for providing that information.

Let's see, the buyer's first car, first real job, so i'm not surprised he wants to keep his monthly payment as low as possible. You never mentioned if his insurance policy includes Gap insurance. You know he can buy it from his insurance agent. I'm sure someone who "been doing this for 10 years" knows this and it is normally much, much cheaper to buy from your insurance agent. Do you happen to know that this person did not have Gap insurance as part of his coverage?

Second, the ink was barely dry on contract when he totaled the car. The miles on the odometer match the miles on the paperwork. If he has a legitimate insurance company, he will most likely get what he paid for the car (and sales tax). Like I mentioned, less any fees he had to pay, starting him back at zero. I thought the Sentra was a good car with fairly low depreciation for "small" car. So why would he lose several thousand dollars for simply driving off the curb? In your mind, yes it loses value because if he traded the car to you, you can not sell it as new since it was titled so he would lose several thousand dollars in that situation.

Of course, his premiums will go up.

BTW, how did the car hold up versus the SUV?

mschmal · March 2007

I would only recommend GAP insurance to people:

1. financing more than the MSRP of the new car. Either because they did not cover sales tax and any aftermarket options with rebates or downpayment.

2. Buying a preowned car without at least a 10% downpayment.

3. Including negative equity into the new loan.

4. Be cautious of buying a "left over". Many times a left over is depreciated by more than the rebates and discounts you will receive. This is especially true if the new model year vehicle is restyled or redesigned.

5. If you drive more than 15,000 miles per year, GAP may be a good option if you are not making a down payment.

Nissan Versa

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