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Dodge Dakota Problems. Please help!
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Comments
No more will I hold back on the griping I have done on Dodge. They deserve to be dogged and they need their [non-permissible content removed] kick. The can of worms is now open again and its too full to close. You know what else I did while at the dealership. A couple was looking at a Dakota and the salesman was doing his stuff to make the sale. I went to my truck and pulled out a stack of work orders on past service done on my truck. I showed them and also gave them the web address to this site. The salesman didn't know what to say. I told him it wasn't his fault and I was sorry but I could not stand by and let a young couple consider this truck without knowing how cheap they are. They thank me and said they wish more people would spread the word on crap like this. They didn't want to take the chance so they went elsewhere. As they were leaving I told them to listen to the way the auto trans shifted from P to D and back to P. It sounds like crap. They did ask me why I don't get rid of it. Answer, because of the money I will lose. I'm not rich and live on a very strict budget. I will drive this truck until my 60K warranty goes out and then will take the lost and trade.
I too tell everyone that I see about my truck and the stacks of service orders that I have. One day Dodge will do what a company should. Stop the line and fix the problems before they ship anymore new vehicles.
Good luck.
Robert
You already know the problem with your brakes, replace the rotors with quality aftermarket ones.
What gives you the right to screw up a deal between a customer and a sales person because you are seeking petty revenge against Dodge. Makes you look pretty foolish to me, especially bragging about what you had done.
Dodge is getting ready to open a 3rd shift at the factory that builds Dakotas to keep up with demand. You don't increase market share selling junk. For every dissatisfied owner as yourself there are many more who are pleased with their purchases.
I've read your complaints in the past and they all seem to be dealer related. Is your dealer that bad or are you so confrontational in your dealings with them that they have no incentive to make you a "happy customer".
You said "No more will I hold back on the griping I have done on Dodge", really, have you ever held back???
You knew in the past what was wrong with your brakes but you insisted it was up to Dodge to fix the problem and if I recall they did finally fix it (using the same "inferior parts") to your satisfaction. Now they are getting warped again, is the cause "inferior parts" or possibly your driving style? Put on aftermarket rotors and fix the problem! New rotors are a lot less expensive than trading for a new vehicle.
If you need constructive help ask for it but if you are just looking for cheese for you WHINE don't expect much sympathy.
For your edification I have a 2000 Quad cab that has never been back to the dealer for anything in over 2 years. I change my own oil and do all my own preventative maintenance. Rick
Thats all well and good, but correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that why you pay 20K+ for NEW vehicle? Otherwise, DC should offer a discount to Dakota owners for acting as development engineers. I got fed up with being DC's quality control test rat and got rid of my Dakota. I haven't looked back either. Yes, I too have had my driving habits questioned by everyone except the Pope and well, if driving 20 miles round trip to work each day is abusive, then yes, I was guility! I suppose living in W PA is part of the problem too. Lots of hills here, not like Indiana where I grew up. Shame on me for living in a hilly area I guess. More the point, shame on Dodge for sourcing the cheapest possible brake components that probably barely passed factory inspection. But hey, the guy who figured out how to save two whole dollars probably got a bonus AND a promotion. What I got was lousy brakes.
Dandow has a point...to a certain extent. He pays his money and expects a vehicle to perform. Nothing wrong with that. What's wrong is the shockingly lax quality control and the advent of finance persons being involved with engineering and development...read: Too much cost cutting in the wrong areas.
Nevertheless, I had to chime in here cause I know all about the lousy brakes, the freakish shift quality of the 45RFE, the popping and clunking in the front end, the endless trips to get the PCM flashed properly so a fuel injected vehicle runs like it should, not like my dads lawnmower, the AIS motor, the camshaft reference sensor.
FUnny thing is, Suzuki got the PCM programming right on the first try. WHy couldn't dodge?
Ah well, not my worry anymore. Probably the best thing which can be said is I'm not a "pain" in my dealers [non-permissible content removed] anymore and DC doesn't get any more corespondence from me either.
Yes Dodge has had programming problems with a new and innovative transmission, since I don't have one I can't address the problem.
A vehicle of any type is a highly complex device that built with many things guiding it's inception including government regulations and corporate bean counters.
It is assembled by human beings. These human beings have their good and bad days just like you and I. They perform repetitive tasks day after day after day. I myself could not last in such a mind numbing job very long while performing at my very best. I'm not making excuses, just observations!
I know from personal experience that some drivers and their driving style are harder on vehicles than others.
We have a fleet of over 100 cars in my organization.
One driver can go over 40,000 miles on the same type vehicle with no adverse wear to the brakes while another driver can't get a set to last over 10,000. Same cars, only variable is driver. Why, I don't really know!
We have Dodge, GM and Ford vehicles.
We experience problems with ALL of them. We are a government agency so there are no imports in our fleet. You would probably be surprised to know that GM and Ford have brake rotor warpage issues too! Turning the rotors is not a long term cure, we replace rotors with aftermarket when available because they are cheaper and we have a budget to live within.
SUVs, based on my observations if I were to purchase one(not likely), my choice would be
1. Suburban (like a rock, reliable, gas piglet),
2. Durango (nimble but a gas hog)and last
3. Ford Expedition (under powered and breaks more often, Major gas hog).
My point, any vehicle is going to break eventually. You would think a $25,000 vehicle since it costs so much should be very reliable and in my opinion it should. Do you realize that at $25000 you are almost talking entry level vehicle any more? Not making excuses here, again my observations.
Moving on to the Dealership. Run by human beings (some are rumored to be sub species). How you interact with a person generally causes a similar response. Whether it is right or wrong doesn't matter, it is human nature.
A courteous, informed customer will interact with the service people better and possibly get better results than a less mature attitude. Fact!
Service people are often under trained and time constrained. They don't make money on the hard jobs. If they can't figure it out they change a part that might be the problem and move on to the next job. Time is money! Is it right? not if your car is the hard job. But that is the way it generally is, doesn't make a difference what the brand vehicle.
Seems to me you had a wiring harness burn up in your Suzuki! Only recall one Dakota with a melted down fuse box. Suzuki needed a PCM reprogram? Not exactly a flawless vehicle either. Rick
BTW...be thankful you don't have the 45RFE.....a coworker(who will soon be leaving our organization due to downsizing) chatted with me last Thursday about the 2nd 45RFE he's getting in his Dakota.
Here it goes,01 Quad cab,2wheel dr. 4.7 and have the offset axle. 26,000 miles. Rear end was howling real bad and have never towed (syn lube?)
Took it in and this is what they told me they did to it, Pinion bearings and carrier bearings were rusted,pitted. Removed/replaced Pinion and side bearings and filled with fluid and additive. How do the bearings get rusted and pitted?? And also I always heard that replacing the pinion was kind of a science to it?? I have about 200 hundred miles on it since work was done and I can already hear a very slight whine to it. Do you think I should demand a new axle since it is offset and this howling issue. Not that demanding will get me anywhere. Need advice folks, What would you do??
Thanks Paul..
Mailman
I've talked to half a dozen transmission techs and to the person they have said they've yet to see one. And in general Dodge auto transmission problems are way, way down since the "RE" series got a major lubrication system upgrade in '98.
After tomorrow I will own a 45RFE and I wouldn't have even considered one if I thought there was a major design problem.
Dusty
Point being, this "driver adaptive" transmission on my Dakota apparently did not make it past middle school. Rough 2-3 upshift, enough to make the rear axle bang(god knows how much good it was for the ujoints and pinion gear)and a very harsh 4-3 downshift were enough to turn my off for good.
ALl I know is the 727 held up for me fine during my teenage years and never missed a shift, used regular Dexron fluid and a simple $8.00 filter. Same thing for the TH350 in a Nova I owned for a bit and needless to say it sure did get abused big time.
As I stated before, I am not picking at Chrysler for making an abuse proof transmission. Lord only knows I can offer up my teenage years as an example of how NOT to drive an automatic.
But this is a truck and to drive 20 miles round trip to work and occasional trip to camp & having to put up with all that was simply absurd.
Add to that the fact it never towed or hauled anything save for my 220 lb frame and I say Chrysler needs to dig out those blueprints for the 727 and soon!
Maybe you've got one that isn't quite right, but that doesn't mean they're all like yours.
How many miles do you have on your truck?
Regards,
Dusty
I hope you have good luck with yours; mine was built on a Friday so apprarently that old saying still holds true!
Bookitty
As others have posted, the solution was/is......go with the 5 speed!
My guess is had I gone with the 5 speed, I would have been a lot happier.
LOL....so....on my next ride, I didn't even consider the automatic option at all. Especially since the 4 banger doesn't have much power to begin with.
I understood that a Dakota experience has made someone very unhappy and I don't for a moment assume that it was an undeserved perspective. There are negative tendency characteristics with most vehicles. I was only making the point that I don't believe that the problems experienced by Mopar67 are inherent in the 545RFE. That doesn't mean there aren't going to be misfit 545RFE transmissions lurking out there. Heck, I've been to my Toyota dealer four times and seen new Tundras with the transmissions being replaced, and everyone knows how perfect they are.
I believe that most people will be tolerant of a certain level of assembly mistakes from auto manufacturers. After all, they are assembled by human beings. Since I have some experience in this area -- at both ends, I might add -- I think its safe to say that people get really sour when they perceive that they are being dismissed rather than being served with an honest effort to resolve the problem.
A disinterested service department, a disinterested manufacturer repressentative can only aggravate an unhappy experience.
I assure you that I wouldn't have just purchased a Dakota if I believed they suffered from serious design problems, especially those in the drivetrain or affecting reliability. I have talked to dozens of very happy Dakota owners and in all honesty never found one that was anything but very pleased with their truck. But bad ones will happen to anything.
Best regards,
Dusty
Another contention is the fact that out of all my Chrysler products which I have owned, fixed, had fixed, abused, used, and just plain drove like holy old heck, the Dakota was by far the most disappointing out of all of them. SInce becoming an adult, I have long toned down my abuse and rather fast driving (it didn't take much to get me to race back in my teenage years)of my vehicles. Accordingly, I expected far less problems with the Dakota than what I had. Had my prior experience with Chrysler products not been so positive, I would have written off this situtation as simply a bad deal and moved on. Which I have to a large extent. But like any long term relationship, when it goes sour, it hurts. But I guess I get too involved with my vehicles! ha ha.
At any rate, your postings here are an asset to this board so please keep them coming. As a truck purist, I agree that good old drum brakes in the back are perfectly fine. Dodge's problem was not so much a design flaw in using drum brakes but using inferior, non heat treated drums and rotors. I also agree with bpeebles on solid front axle. THat is, after all, what makes a truck a truck. Want a smooth ride? Go get a Camry or Accord or something.
Lord, how I miss that old IH we used to have. Now there was a truck. Period!
Bookitty
Yes, Mopar67, I know exactly what you mean. A sour note might be music to somebody, but its still a sour note. I had a very repugnant dislike for my wife's Plymouth Acclaim and have been frustrated with Chrysler over that. The shame of it all was that it was a terrific car to drive, had the best interior of any car either she or I have ever owned, and got high 30s for gas mileage. A few times even over 40 mpg. Mechanically is was probably better than average and didn't cost us serious money until 122,000 miles (left outer transaxle bearing failed). But this thing had more buzzes and rattles than a B-24 with 35 combat missions. The dealer was disinterested. The Chrysler rep. seemed to be, but as soon as the pressure was off the dealer just started to jerk us around. By the way, I can't stand a buzzy, rattley, noisy car!!!!
Now our 1999 Avalon, a $31,000 car by the way, is actually worse with rattles!!! Yep. You read this right. It has kind of put things in perspective for me. It also has the worst transmission I've ever owned. Rides nice and has plenty of power. I should've bought the Maxima, but the Avalon had more room in back.
Anyway, very sorry you had a poor experience with your Dakota. Hopefully your current vehicle will treat you better....and so will mine!!
Best regards,
Dusty
P.S. Liked your comment about the old Chrysler 727s. I agree, they were the most bullet-proof transmission EVER built.
SoOrry about your Acclaim. I know EXACTLY how you feel. THe treatement you get from the dealer and/or factory can make or break your experience.
FWIW.....the Dodge Spirit I had was one of CHrysler's best cars I ever drove. Rock solid, easy to work on, and it simply did not break.
As before, I sure do hope your dakota performs well for you and last a long long time!
Dusty
The 2.5 really was a good motor, made even better with the balance shafts. The FI was throttle body but it worked flawlessly. I never even had to replace a sensor.......like I said, I totally forgot about the rack until you mentioned yours.
I guess it was so trouble free, I had to pause a minute there to remember that!
Here is my question: how does the engine sound in each of your vehicles when you have the AC turned on vs when it isn't? What I do to showcase the problem is rev the engine in neutral to about 3000, then I let it come back down, click on the AC, and rev it to 3000 again, and there is a loud whirring noise that I never remember being there before. When driving with the AC on, the idle seems to "hang" a little longer during shifts then when it does without the AC on.
So, to summarize, is there any NOTICIBLE extra noise in your trucks when you repeat the above process?
2001 QC 4.7L 5-speed.
Bookitty
regards,
Dusty
Dick
I told the service manager to talk to the guy I demoed the problem to, and after another inspection, they think it may be a bad AC compressor. He's got one on order now.
Seems Dakota's don't have very good AC systems.
I repeated this several times during the day and could not reproduce the noise.
Dusty
Bookitty
GLZR2, I think I've had my heater controls in pretty much every position now and have not noticed any whistling from the vents.
A couple of more gripes: Small ones, but I'd sure appreciate stays or loops like Nissan and Toyota use to keep the floor mats from moving around.
I'm not fond of the headlamp beam switch being actuated by double-pulling on the directional lamp stalk, either. I like the Nissan, Toyota, Mazda, etc., method better.
A couple of nice things: This is the first vehicle I've been in (most certainly the first I've owned) that the window switches are illuminated for nighttime use. Kudos to Chrysler!!
I did notice that unlike cars & trucks built by the Chrysler, Ford, and GM of years past, this Dakota gets heat very, very quickly. Just about as quickly as our Sentra and Avalon.
Oh, yes. I drove a new RAM Quad cab the other day. No, it did not hop, in fact this is the fourth 2002-3 RAM I've driven and I still feel they are the best handling full-size pick-up on the market. Anyway, I noticed that the rear windows went all the way down into the door. No 4-6 inches of glass sticking up! Why they all don't do that is a mystery.
Do the Dakota Quads do that as well?
Regards,
Dusty
Bookitty
Thanks, Bill.
Bookitty
Your analysis makes a lot of sense. Fortunately, I don't detect any slippage as yet. This surge is VERY VERY sudden; hence I'm going to assume the tranny must be kicking down at least 2 or 3 gears hunting for an appropriate ratio. My plan is to ascend the same hill again at the same speed but, only this time with the cruise control turned OFF to compare differences in the kick down process. Next, I plan to repeat the same test with the OverDrive(O/D) turned OFF and next test again with both features OFF and compare results.
Perhaps, a general rule to follow may be to just...turn OFF the cruise control & turn OFF the O/D whenever climbing a grade. Would you reccomend that?
Thanks again.
Bill
While I do not doubt that earlier Dakota models could have had better quality rotor material, there was one previous poster who tried to make the point that this problem was not necessarily unique to Dakotas. Indeed, our '99 Toyota Avalon is one of those that has had unsatisfactory service from front brake rotors. I know three Tundra owners who have had rotors replaced in less that 20,000 miles, and a number of other people with a vast array of different makes and models.
In reading another board [bsmoodha "Dealership trouble!" Aug 4, 2002 6:23pm] I ran across what I believe to be a practicing service technicians comment:
"......The problem with front brake rotor wear is industry wide. There is a "Quality" issue with the offshore manufactured products used in most US built motor vehicles that use off shore manufactured brake rotors. Ask your dealer Service Manager if it would be possible to share the repair records his shop has with the FMVSS inspectors. If not, call your state Bureau of Automotive Repair Board and file a formal complaint."
Interesting, at one of our local brake & muffler shops I overheard the service manager tell a Chevrolet Suburban owner the same thing. I asked how much of a problem this was, and he replied that it is "almost universal." Oddly, when I asked about the Dakota specifically, he said that a number of other truck models were worse. He did say that '94 -'99 Grand Cherokee's were probably THE worst.
Dusty
Bookitty
However,I did some more searching around and found that this problem has already been documented for 2001 3.9L engines and perhaps 4.7L & 5.9L as well. So, for those of us who are/may be affected, it's filed under Technical Service Bulletin #0803500. The summary description is as follows:
" Some vehicles may exhibit a surge while the speed control is engaged at 74-76km/h (46-47mph) or at 109-111km/h (68-69 mph. "
The TSB does not mention if there is a Flash to the module to resolve but, I guess the dealers would know.
Thanks.
Bill
Dick
Regards,
Dusty
My 2001 QC was built in early June 2001 (just before 2001 build cut-offs) but, it has the same auto trans surge problems when the cruise control is engaged at those speeds as documented. My QC does not have 4-wheel anti-lock ABS. It has the standard rear-only anti-lock braking system.
Has anyone else come across this sudden surge situation with the cruise control engaged while travelling around 80km/h or 50mph? As the tranny kicks down, the engine revs up from cruising in O/D @1500rpm to approx 4300rpm in about 2-3 secs. It's actually quite scary when not expecting it.
Bill
After working out some bugs ( replaced speed/abs sensor, ais motor, and lower ball joints) I'm already thinking about making some modifications. Can anyone here refer me to a good source for aftermarket parts? Im also looking for some feedback on mods anyone has done like exhaust systems and wheels and such. Thanks for any help
Mike
I've dealt with this ugly discrepancy for more than two years and many dealership visits that have lasted as long as a full week (twice).
I suspect one/some of many sensors that eventually determine the fuel/air mix, causing erratic engine speeds akin to the old manual chokes that used to stick from time to time.
Two different dealerships have run the diagnostics numerous times and similarly told me a) "there's nothing wrong", and b) no discrepancy is identified by their (or my onboard) computer. [Technicians apparently don't "fly by the seat of their pants" anymore, and when required to do so ('cause their computers don't provide the answers they require), they "crash and burn".]
Generally, within about 5 minutes, the "bucking" discrepancy smoothes out, not to be felt again until the first start of the next day. [Most recently, I've experienced a "stutter" at highway speeds during deceleration and re-acceleration, ie., the cancer may be spreading.]
Hope I'm not the only one in the universe with this problem - it's driving me to consider disposing of the Dakota I otherwise love - I need a solution, and I'm convinced the dealerships are not likely or inclined to help.
Bill
GOod luck.....this can be a hard one to track down.
Have not taken it back to dealer to get fixed.
Believe it or not, bookitty, I will be taking it to Hawley Motors in Batavia, N.Y.
Bookitty