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Honda Civic Coupe / Civic Si 2006+
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Comments
Thanks
But, it is tinted.. I think every model car has glass that has a tint of some degree... The last car that I had with true clear glass was in 1977.
regards,
kyfdx
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however;
i'm very against this, and would love to hear why you would want to do this. the money it would actually cost to accomplish this would be better spent just buying an si...because at least it is already equipped with the OTHER performance mods you need, like a better equipped suspension, better seats, and most importantly, an engine that was almost made for tuning!
the r18 is a fantastic engine: sounds good, makes good power for its size, and gets outstanding fuel economy.
Why would you want to ruin that? Granted many have souped up the d-series engines in civics of yore, but those have a bit of potential, simply because they have been around forever. Plus, most of the reason why they get good fuel economy is because they are small and sit in a light chassis: the new civic, while not heavy, is no lightweight, and its engine has been engineered to haul it around AND deliver outstanding economy.
again, why ruin a good thing? :confuse:
again, why ruin a good thing?
To make it better? :confuse:
did you read my response at all?
the r18, while it probably would be reliable even with a turbo as most honda engines are, was NOT made for this type of application; thats why cars like the si exist.
If he had these plans from the get go, an si should have been his first consideration, especially since it trumps the regular civc about 2 seconds on its zero to sixty time, which is about where a small turbo would put his civic.
and if he was resloved to turbo anyway, the si is a fantastic platform, remember, his civic will need all kinds of suspension work done to compensate for the extra power, again another expense that makes it not worth it.
so in a few paragraphs, no, its not 'better' its unnecessary. thats what the si is for. if it was free, ok. but unfortunately, its going to cost a lot, totally negating any 'benefits' of a project like this.
It also makes you wonder if honda's marketing is working, because people are actually sitting there thinking about all the stuff they can do with their civics, instead of just having bought an si. Its not more cost efficient, and the si is not expensive! what gives? :confuse:
Not sure where you are shopping but the MSRP is $16,760 LX manual and $21,090 Si manual for a difference of $4330 not almost $7k. As already stated, the Si is going to do far better than an LX as a builder platform, especially at this price difference.
These people are known as ricers, and shouldn't be allowed to touch any car with intentions to modify it with a ten foot pole.
Sorry for assuming he was going to 'tune' his car the RIGHT way. I guess i should have known he wouldn't after reading that he was considering turboing an lx civic to begin with! :sick:
But even if he did, he might be able to get a turbo system and some springs and still come out a little less than the cost of an Si, especially if he's talking about a coupe. The Si coupe costs right next to seven thousand dollars more than a base coupe.
even a base coupe ( a dx) costs 15k. So at the very most, you are talking about a 6k difference. But he has an lx, so the difference is more like 4500.
Slapping some springs isn't going to do much with stock wheels and tires except make his handling WORSE. and when you turbo a car, you MUST prepare the suspension and chassis (coilovers, or springs, struts, strut tower bars etc) first, or youll be ready for disaster.
Do you realize how much turbo kits are? they are not cheap, especially for newer cars. And if there are any turbo kits for the r18, a lame company probably attempted it and again, we have a recepie for unreliability.
And when all is said and done, even after the turbo, he'll have a car thats slightly quicker than the si, and certainly not worth the cost it took to do it. ON top of that, it wont hold a candle to the si's handling.
It's like buying a fiberglass bathtub and deciding to add a set of claw feet to it... sure you can do it, it's just not a good idea. Just get the right platform to start.
this is one of the reasons i try and stay away from the 8thgen civic forums; to many nice people on that website that want to do this, and they get nuts over the parts that are available.
Its really silly stuff too, like going through the trouble of finding si sway bars because they are thicker. Its just silly.
i can hold my own against some mugen b series whore, its just dealing with the 'i can't wait till x company is done with the turbo for the r18!' kind of stuff. :sick:
They seemed to think that spending 5k on a car worth maybe 3k was somehow a neat thing to do. I usually suggested they save their money for a real "fast" car someday.
Some listened, if only when mommy-san said no.
Others took the more than adequate v6 and after putting the charger on it, decided that 250HP wasn't enough, so dropped the pulley diameter to crank it up to near 300hp. And then wondered why their once-ultra-reliable Toyota engine was blowing smoke and drinking oil like there was no tomorrow....
taking a mid 90's civic hatchback and swapping in a performance oriented b series motor or even a new k series like in the si yields some very impressive results.
its very common to see guys with old coupes and hatches spend about 8k on a k series swap and then have their cars doing 13's or less in the quater mile for a fraction of what other cars cost.
but the supercharged camry is a bit much.
It makes no more sense on an old Civic than it does on an old Camry if it is your daily driver and you need reliable transportation.
A garage build that only comes out for real races (on real tracks) is a totally different beast.
As far as learning to drive on it, I wouldn't sweat it too much, as long as you give yourself a bit to get comfortable before shifting into boy racer mode.
Other than a 5 minute drive in an old Porsche 944, I had never driven a manual before I bought my 95 Civic EX manual new. I stalled it a few times on the test drive. I was fairly comfortable with it in a day (though hills took a couple of weeks).
My dad had it after me, and relearned how to drive a MT after 25 years in automatics. It still had the original clutch and tranny when he sold it 6 months ago (with 115k on the clock).
Running a manual in traffic can be a pain for some. On the up side, the civic has a super light clutch, so it's more of a figurative pain. As long as you don't anticipate eating, talking on the phone, and shaving while you (attempt to) drive, you should be OK> Doing stop and go in my 99 Mustang Cobra for 4 hours (hurrican evacuation) was a LITERAL pain. I could barely walk when I got out of the car.
ASIDE from the exquiste power to weight ratio, and stock handling traits, putting a more powerful engine into civic is easy because honda also built the more powerful engine; done properly, there are virtually no issues, and its been proven.
And probably the main reason that souping up small honda four cylinders ever got popular is BECAUSE they are legendary for accepting powerful mods WIHOUT any affect to reliabilty. Again, something that has been proven. Do they fail sometimes? Ofcourse, but the reason many are drawn to honda is the fact that the engines are bulletproof to being with.
As far as the camry goes, it really has NOTHING going for it, no ounce of handling or a good power to weight ratio. THAT is whats pointless.
Mind you, the mods in question that i was reffering to on smaller hondas are not very expensive at all. Certainly not the 30k some sports cars demand. Though you can spend that much and still obliterate them.
About the only thing sillier in my mind are the people who buy a $1,000 car and spend $8k on wheels and a really loud stereo.
Not to shabby in my opinion. It may not be everyone's 'thing' but everyone spends money, and sometimes a lot, on things that another person wouldn't. On a newer car it makes less sense, but the warranty isn't a real issue if you are the kind of guy who likes to work on your car and are only after performance...in other words a total moot point.
I to agree with the buying of a 1k car and adding 8k wheels, but thats not what were talking about.
The sunroof thing only seems to happen when I've just pulled out of the garage. The alley behind my house is pretty rough and uneven, so I think it's just "settling in" after first being driven after me parking it in the garage and closing it.
The popping only happens at very low speeds when I hit a large bump. Usually pulling out of inclined driveways or out of businesses onto a street.
I wouldn't think a door rattle would be too hard to fix. Were it me, I'd try a different dealer. If they can't fix it. I'd get in touch with the regional service manager from Honda. Explain the problem, show him paperwork from your multiple visits, and ask for guidance. I would expect Honda would much rather make good on the problem rather than having an unhappy customer whose likely to share their problem with other potential buyers.
If that doesn't work, the last resort could be legal action. Perhaps taking it to an indy body shop and suing to recover the money.
The reality is that even if your engine could safely run lower grades of fuel, your gas mileage will drop so much that the cheaper fuel (per gallon) will end up costing you more (i.e. cost per mile).
Best Regards,
Shipo
Most ignition time these days is done with sensor to adjust same to prevent premature detanation. Question is, is this the case with the SI, given Honda's engineering quirkiness? I wonder what the exact words in the owners manual are regarding this.
As for the issue of mechanical damage, no, I have no first hand experience of destroying an Si engine (or any other high compression engine that "Requires" Premium fuel for that matter), I simply will not subject my engines to that kind of abuse. That said, I've been turning wrenches for over thirty years and have seen the results of octane skimping any number of times, and it ain't pretty.
The fact is that as compression ratio rises, the heat generated from the compression will eventually reach a point where it is too high for any amount of timing retardation to prevent detonation (and engine damage as a result). Is it 10.5:1? How about 11.0:1? Maybe 11.5:1? I don't know for sure where the threshold is (it varies by engine, OAT, humidity, altitude, and a few other variables), however, I do know one thing for sure, the engineers at Honda don't just "Recommend" Premium fuel (which is the language usually reserved for cars that CAN retard the timing far enough to burn Regular), they "Require" it. Given that Honda engineers have a very good reputation with regards to the care and feeding of the engines they design, my bet is that if they say that Premium fuel is "Required", only a fool would tempt fate and run anything less than 91 AKI in their Si.
Best Regards,
Shipo
However, as shipo has posted, you cannot change the engines compression ratio (unless you plan on rebuilding it yourself), so you would be running your engine with continually retarded ignition. That is going to give you worse gas mileage and will increase your exhaust emissions (if you care about the air you breathe).
So, I too do not see the point. If you really want to run regular gas, you'd have been far better off buying a regular EX sedan instead of an Si.
Sure you can run regular in it, but I wouldn't dare trying to run that engine up to 8K RPM with it!! That would be begging for busted pistons and/or bent rods. And there's no way it'd pass an emissions test.
I was wondering what typical MPG you Si folks are seeing? I am coming from a Subaru Forester XT, and I'm probably in the low to mid-20's MPG. I know both cars take premium fuel, but if the Si gets better gas mileage I would consider switching over. My commute (95%) is mostly highway.
Any advice/help would be appreciated.
There's also info at 8thcivic.com about it.
Most people seem to average in the mid to high twenties overall, but many people have reported hwy mileage in the 33-34 range. I'm thinking of purchasing one myself, and have a friend with an 07 Si sedan that gets that on the highway, so it can be done; maybe even a bit more if you have everything working in your favor.
One thing about using premium, is that most places the differential, no matter what fuel prices rise to, is always going to be $2.60 more for a 13 gallon tank.
Long story short, the bigger issue with the Si engine isn’t fuel economy, it is engine protection. If someone holes a piston, Honda’s most likely going to charge the owner a pretty penny for the repairs.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
Here's where I'm coming from: I just had MINI buy back my 2007 MINI Cooper S after having to replace three clutches in just a bit over one year. Even though MINI newsgroups have documented many with the same problem, they would blame me and then reluctantly replace it. In addition there were numerous other irritants like rattles that developed, or auto windows moving slowly. As much as I loved the drive, I could not trust the car.
My Honda Civic LX Coupe was $9000. less than the MINI, and feels tighter, smoother, quieter, and WAY more reliable. Did I get lucky? I think not. I think you got unlucky w/ your SI, and I got unlucky with my MINI. Both experiences turned us away, but I know there ARE many good MINIs out there. You should admit the same is true for Hondas.
On an historic basis, I might actually believe that, however, since the Gen 8 Civic and the Mark 5 Rabbit/Jetta/GTI/GLI debuted (both in 2006), I'm thinking that if anything, the roles have been reversed.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Get on a couple of dedicated Honda Civic boards. It seems that the reputation is well on it's way to being blown.
Typical complaints include (but are not limited to) the following items:
- Numerous engine failures due to bad block casting
- Cheaper interior than the Honda Fit
- Rear suspension geometry causing squirrely handling and premature tire wear. FWIW, the 2006 model year has a TSB on this issue, however, the problem seems to persist to this day, and dealers are very reticent to swap out the rear suspension.
- Numerous transmission related issues, especially 3rd gear on the Si tranny.
- Annoying rev-hang when lifting off the throttle.
- Lots of squeaks and rattles
- Intermittent A/C effectiveness on really hot days
After driving both back-to-back (along with an Mazda3), my favorite is the Rabbit/GTI, and it wasn't even close.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I find the Si interior is better than any previous Acura I've owned and as good as my folks' last gen TL-S, except that the metallic-look trim pieces don't, which equals "cheap." Honda should take a lesson from Audi and use real aluminum (but avoid taking lessons on designing A/C, radio, wiper and cruise control controls from Audi).
My rear suspension has a little too much negative camber, but it isn't squirrely and I can buy new UCAs, either the non-adjustable OEM from '08 on, or SPC adjustible to correct.
My transmission would jump out of third, but I replaced the fluid with synchromesh and it hasn't been an issue since. I had grinding issues with my last 5-speed Acura transmission that a fluid change also fixed.
The rev hang is a pain, but it is also mandated by stricter emissions requirements. I know many other cars are also DBW and don't have the issue, but each engine design has unique characteristics that may exacerbate or mitigate.
Again, the squeaks and rattles are fewer than any other Honda/Acura product I've driven.
My A/C cooled me down within ten minutes from 106 last summer with high humidity. A Mazda3 wouldn't do it in 20 minutes of test-driving from under 90, twice.
VWs always do seem to have thoughtful features and drive well, but no one in my family has owned one since the early '80s and won't until they get a consistent reliability record.