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Comments
The only thing Caddy did wrong was wait too long to enter the luxury truck market. They admit to that, know they are behind, and as such are about to introduce several hot new SUVs over the course of the next 3 years (and beyond if the market still demands).
The first generation Escalade makes no apologies for being an upgraded Denali. The Navigator, LX470, QX4, and several others are upgraded models of lesser "sister" vehicles. Why a large number of people seem to point out the Escalade for its lesser roots, as if it's the only vehicle of its kind to have such a lineage, I do not understand.
The current Escalade has already brought in younger buyers to Cadillac showrooms, and yes, including enough people in the entertainment industry to be relevant and countable. He'll remain nameless here, but I have a relative in the entertainment industry in his low 30's who bought an Escalade and could afford essentially any damn vehicle he wants. He chose the Escalade...a Cadillac.
Regarding the Edmunds review of the new '02 Escalade, given that these guys have seemingly gone out of their way to find things wrong with any other Cadillac they have tested and written about, the fact that they were so impressed with the new Escalade that they say it is equal to, if not better than, the other luxury SUVs, both import and domestic, speaks volumes. Frankly, I was amazed when I read it, and excited, since the '02 Escalade really represents the first of the "new breed" of Cadillac vehicles that will begin to be introduced for the '02 model year.
Anyway, as of now all we can do is speculate as to how the consumer market will react to the new '02 Escalade. I have a feeling that we'll be seeing a lot more Escalades hitting the road, and a lot of them will be "suped up" with aftermarket goodies that'll make them look even hotter. This will be a very profitable vehicle for Cadillac, and it will set new standards in many areas for the large luxury SUV market.
Competition is good. All of us consumers win in the end.
Like it or not, Cadillacs are becoming cool again.
Your comments regarding the Navigator, LX470, QX4, are absolutely true. You can also add the Acura STX to that list. I'm not a fan of those models either. I don't like "badge engineering" in any way, shape or form. You can argue, and rightfully so, that this is the easiest, cheapest and quickest way to bring a new model to market. The problem is -- no matter how much you dress it up -- you still end up with a mediocre product -- because its roots (which you can't change) are mediocre to begin with.
Of those other badge-engineered vehicles I have hope (strong hope) for the next Navigator, which is due out in a couple of years. From what I've read so far, it will have many of the features the current models "should" have right now.
The excellent 2002 Explorer is a good tip-off as to what you can expect to find on the next Navigator. It will have virtually all the items (that I feel should be there) that are currently missing from the current Navigator, Escalade, etc. It will have IRS, a roomy, easy-to-access and fold-away third seat, and most likely a 5-speed automatic. All of these features will make it a class-leading vehicle. Yes the next Expedition will also have many, if not all those features. The difference is that the next Navigator will start off using a much more sophisticated platform to begin with.
Bob
The only real problem I see with your conclusion is that you are comparing vehicles that were built off of car chassis. The ML is a product of the E class. The X5 is a tall 5 series. What would happen if they but bigger tires on an STS and called it an SUV? No one could come close to the technology. I have driven (BTW, I am not an owner of a Cadillac, I run a dealership) all the inports for a good spin. I have to say that I do like the trucks. I use the term truck VERY loosely though. After all, they are still just big, tall cars. When the new 02 escalade hits, the technology will be greater than anything else out there. Stabilitrac in a sport ute?!? So they won't have a 5 speed tranny. Being able to pull 8700 pounds in complete luxury and safety doesn't require 5 gears. Besides, for the most part, the only thing a 5 speed does for you is give you more torque off the line because of the lower gear ratio in first. Not really needed.
I can say that interest in the vehicle is tremondous and Cadillac is accomodating that. I currently have 6 orders for them. All at list plus (whatever it might be). One of the orders is for a gentleman that had to extend the lease on his current escalade 6 months. This is unheard of on a GMAC lease. 2 month extensions are usually the most. Cadillac expects big things with this new one. So do I.
Again, I have to apologize for the scathing post earlier. As most people here such as Robh knows, I don't like to do that. Everyone has, and is entitled to, their own opinions.
I take exception with your comment about the ML Mercedes being built off the E-Class chassis. That's just not true. The ML has a full-frame chassis. The E-Class is a unit-body design. Granted, it does share some components with the E-Class, but not the chassis.
I'm glad you mentioned the M-Class however. I have felt from day one that this vehicle would be the blueprint for future SUVs. I still do, in spite of numerous problems that the M-Class has encountered to date. As I mentioned, it has a full-frame, truck-like chassis, yet employs a car-like independent rear suspension. It also is the only "new-generation" SUV that continues to have a low range in the transfer case. I've noticed that the new 2002 Escalade has abandoned the low range. This is a mistake on Caddy's part. I am convinced that if an SUV is to truly be an SUV, a low range needs to be part of the package -- even if it's only used once a year -- it needs to be there.
I'm sure that when Mercedes introduces its next-generation ML, which is due around MY 2004, it will again raise the bar for this type of vehicle. I wish I could plug Cadillac's name in the above sentence, but to date, I've seen no evidence of that.
Bob
The Acura MDX has great features and technology, but it suffers from the same condition as most Japanese luxury vehicles--It has no soul.
The current Caddy was clearly an attempt to get product to the market as quickly as possible in the most profitable segment. It has serious shortcomings, but it has succeeded in bringing younger, wealthier people to the Cadillac Marquee. When Caddy modified the Tahoe platform, they were aiming squarely at the Lincoln Navigator and to a lesser extent Lexus LX470. The Acura, M-Class, X5, RX300, and Infiniti were never intended targets. They are not even in the same category. Not only are they smaller, they are also hybrid vehicles intended for different buyers and purposes.
The 02' Escalade will be even more successful for Cadillac because it will have the engineering and technology to rival all Full size luxury SUV's. It will provide the third row seating, stabilitrac, and the presence/prestige that discerning buyers demand.
The 2005 M-Class will also address most of the current M's shortcomings, but unfortunately most buyers can't afford to wait that long.
I agree with you regarding the Acura MDX. I will also add that it too lacks a low range, and I believe(?) also comes with a temp spare tire, which is absurd in an SUV.
From what I've read, it sounds like the updated Navigator, which should debut on or around 2003, will be the leading "American" luxury SUV. All, or most of what I feel is lacking in the Escalade, will be featured on this vehicle.
Bob
Truthfuly, I am not even an SUV fan. But, I am a Cadillac fan. It has taken me all these years to figure out what the heck all the buzz is about with these overpriced, gas guzzling, tip-over prone vehicles called "utility" vehicles that most people never take off the freeways and city streets!
Having come to terms with the fact that the SUV craze just won't seem to die, I have also come to terms with the fact that the next generation Escalade will certainly open the doors to Cadillac dealerships even wider than than the 1st generation one has. Combine that with the new "near luxury" CTS that will debut in '02 (is it '02 or '03?), and things are certain to start changing in the Cadillac realm!
By the way, I have not ever said that I will NEVER own an SUV. Ya' never know...
Bob
http://www.wieck.com/public/index.html
2WD $$$$?
AWD $$$$?
First, despite the new sound system and instrument cluster, the radio and climate control still looks like it's from the Tahoe/Yukon parts bin.
Second, in an age where all Sevilles, Eldos, DHSs, DTSs all have Zebrano wood, is anyone else bothered by the fact that the Escalade's dash is fake wood (although the steering wheel is real wood)?
Third, I know that tccad1 commented on the difficulty of adapting the Northstar to a rear wheel drive platform. Well maybe, but the Evoq will be that configuration. Of course that design team has a little more time to get the job done. Also, using the Vortec design means Caddy doesn't have to spend the money making a completely new transmission to go with it, which the Northstar would have demanded. Still, with Caddy products going RWD in the new few years, you gotta bite the bullet and spend the money to develop this sometime. The Northstar has been an extremely successful engineering and marketing platform for Cadillac. It's a shame not to use it in all applications possible.
Lastly, it's too bad the "It's good to be the Cadillac" ad campaign was done away with. The slogan alone rocked. And I still think the name "Escalade" is lame. My pick? The Cadillac Ranch :-)
having a low range is true, that's good news.
Everything I've read to date, said that it would
NOT have a low range.
The new upscale GMC C-pickups and Denali SUVs are
reported to have AWD w/o a low range. I'm under
the impression that this is the same system that's
going in the Escalade. Am I wrong?
If the low range is button-operated, they're
probably using the same "AutoTrac" transfer case
that's used in the Tahoe, etc.
Bob
sevenfoot0: Actually, I just got an internal memo stating that as of right now, the deville will remain front wheel drive. The evoq is using a new version of the northstar. One that has been properly modified to allow for the RWD. The Seville will use the same engine in 2003. And sadly, yes, it will not have an auto climate control (grrrr! Bad mistake). The audio system will be upgraded (I believe) to a 250 watt 11 speaker bose system. They tested it and said it is capable of sustaining 110 db. A jet engine is 130 db. A lawn mower is 90 db. My guess is they won't put that stereo in the other suv's.
It is not a low range, in that it does not offer a lower set of gear ratios, that a true duel-range transfer case offers.
A tow/haul feature is nice, but it is not a replacement for a low range. If I had my choice, I'd much rather have a true low range.
Bob
same with the tow/haul mode, but not having a low
range is a mistake. BMW and Acura have made the same mistake with their X-5 and MDX, no low range available.
If I'm paying that kind of money for a vehicle, I want to know I can get out of virtually any situation that I would encounter. Having a low range is like additional insurance when push-comes-to-shove. The Navigator, Land Cruiser/RX470, Range Rover and ML Mercedes are the only luxury SUVs that fit the bill, as far as I'm concerned.
Bob
I don't thinks it's overkill. The Suburban offers the same engine - with a low range. I think the Tahoe does too (same engine/low range). The Navigator, the Escalade's closest competitor, also has a low range.
Again, Cadillac is GM's premium brand. "Overkill" should be part of the package. That's what Cadillac customers pay for.
Bob
I honestly think, most people who pull heavy (boat/horse/car) trailers - and who really understand trailering - are going to opt for a vehicle that gives them a low range, for just those situations described in post #239.
I think most Escalades will be used as foul-weather vehicles. And frankly, if that's the case, a Subaru, a Mercedes 4-Matic, a Volvo V-70 Cross Country or an Audi Quattro, would be far more sensible choices. For what it's worth, I have two Subarus and an Explorer, and I much prefer to drive the Subarus in the snow than the Explorer.
Bob
with Cadillac.
I go back to my original point, which got everyone
upset, and that is: Cadillac has given in to be
"average" (and not superior) on this item. Cadillac should be building the best SUV it's capable of, not compromising to be less than they can be.
The Escalade's demographics/usage aren't that much
different from those of the Lexus RX470, or
the Range Rover, or the Navigator. Yet those
vehicles didn't compromise like Cadillac did.
Again, as I stated in post #240, there are better and more sensible "snow vehicles" than the Escalade, or the other luxury SUVs out there -- and that's the numerous AWD cars that are available.
If Cadillac "really" wants to stand out (and be superior) from the crowd, they should make all (not some, but ALL!) their vehicles AWD. Maybe that's why GM just bought 20% of Subaru? It's no secret that GM wants Subaru's AWD technology for future GM products. Although I've heard rumors it may go into future Saabs, it should also go into future Cadillacs.
Bob
Remember the old saying, Is better to have and not need, than need and not have.
Bob
The new '02 Escalade will be the top selling high-end luxury SUV because it will appeal to the masses of those who are in the market for such a vehicle by virtue of its features, power, towingf capability, style, comfort, new/uniqueness, and yes, "pinache". No sense in adding stuff that will not be used in the real world (other than perhaps for bragging rights) that will only add more to the cost. This SUV will be priced right to sway people away from the Navigators and Land Cruisers/RX470's of the world.
I see a winner coming and I am frankly not even an SUV fan. Am I biased, yes, but if someone where to tell me that my only choice in vehicles was among all of the luxury SUVs, I'd choose the '02 Escalade based on what I have seen and know about the choices out there.
I also obverved in a particular marina I frequent a lot, how many times a pickup can not pull on the steep slipery incline the boat on tow, the wheels are spinning too fast and smoking, the good thing is that there are always lots people and they help each other, but what if one comes in an off day or after hours?
For these reasons I decided to get the ML430, not for off roading, but because of personal experience, I decided I wanted AWD, traction control and a low range, in this particular marina I can come out easily, the low range in first gear is so slow that it truly is a creeping gear and will not break the grip of the tires.
Please, I am not advocating the ML, I know this is an escalade topic and I respect that, I just want to point out the benefits of these features, maybe if enough prospective buyers let their feelings known..... is like insurance, it sooths the mind or again, is better to have and not need than need and not have.
Reading prior postings, if cost is a factor, why not eliminate some frugals and add a more utilitarian feature. I ask, an SUV being what it is, what is the harm in having these features, is it not better in having substance behind the vehicle too?
Again, I am not brand advocating, just pointing the merits of a feature that I fell strongly about.(Obviously)
Enjoy,
p.s. I saw an Aztec today. Wow. Those must have been some good mushrooms.
The new designs from Caddy are sleeker and some of the best designs from GM in years.
I do like the new styling direction that has been shown on their recent concept cars. In fact, I think it's excellent - and I've been a graphic designer for nearly 30 years, so I "know" something about design (what works, what doesn't, and why).
The softly rounded shapes of the Tahoe/Suburban's main structure (doors, windows, etc.) do not mesh with the razor-edge shapes/creases that Cadillac is using on their cars. The styling really looks "forced," and not at all natural.
It looks like exactly what it is: A Tahoe (sorry, a Denali) with Caddy frosting.
Bob
We are waiting to see the Escalade in person though. All of the negative posts have really made me want to see it in person. My husband is the kind of person that wants the latest greatest vehicles as soon as they come out. We looked hard at the BMW before it came out. We loved the test drive, but felt that the truck was not worth anywhere near $60,000.
As for the Aztek comment, I think the Mercedes looks more like the Aztek than the Cadillac. Both give the appearance of a minivan. The nicest looking trucks in my opinion are the big Lexus 470, the Range Rover, and the Escalade.
2WD $$$$?
AWD $$$$?
If anyone has a suggestion for a poll question, please feel free to send it to me.
Clifford Martin
Does anyone know what kind of system the new AWD version of the Escalade is going to be using? I'm curious if it's going to also use a variation of the borg-warner TOD system that the Troopers use. Hopefully it will be, because the AWD/TOD system on them is excellent (and GM already partly owns the technology)
-mike
Bob
-mike
GMC is also introducing a Denali-like pickup, the "C," (I'm not sure(?) if that is the correct label for the pickup, but it's close) with the same unit as standard.
Bob