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Cadillac Escalade

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  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    Yeah, I've done some HD posting over here, but not for some time. As you may have gathered, the Escalade is not exactly my cup of tea, at least not the first generation model. I've only warmed up slightly to the new generation model. In this market (American full-size SUV), give me a Tahoe (or Suburban) any day of the week.

    As I stated in my (much) earlier posts (and at the risk of re-opening some old wounds), I see the Escalade (both generations) as essentially a Tahoe in a tuxedo. That doesn't do it for me. For a premium SUV (remember, this is supposed to be be GM's "best", top-of-the-line, and to compete with the best of the world has to offer), I want to see cutting-edge engineering that's not found on other vehicles—and I don't mean just On-Star or AWD, or... "premium leather" (whatever that is?). I want to see a significant upward movement of the engineering benchmark—a new paradigm, if you will. I don't see it here. As an owner of a Mercedes ML, you know what I'm talking about.

    But since I'm not in the market for a full-size SUV, I'll stick with Subaru. I will, however, continue to lurk over here, and comment as I see fit.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I saw an ad in a magazine for the denali yesterday toting AWD. Are these 2 cars twins?

    -mike
  • topgntopgn Posts: 132
    Test drive a Sequoia or a Landcruiser, before you pluck down 50 big ones a Caddy SUV. A buddy of mine bought a 1999 Caddilac Escalade for $48,000. brand new in March of 1999. After being in the shop for the 5th time on vibration problems, he decided to test drive a Landcruiser. ( he always tried to buy GM or Ford products).. He was shocked in the perfomance and build quality of the TLC..

    So he tried selling his Caddy in Jan of 2000( for two months he tried) Finally he ended up selling it for $34,500...

    His own words " It will snow in H--l before I buy a GM product again".. Today his wife and kids love the Landcruiser , oh and yes it has been in the shop at least three times...Oil changes..!!
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    No comparison between the old and the new Escalade. Completely new design. I don't think anyone here is talking about old generation Escalades.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    Yep. Both the Escalade and Denali are much the same. At least with the new version, the Escalade looks a bit different (not better, but different). I think the new Caddy gets the same 6.0L engine from the Chevy 3/4-ton pickups too.

    Bob
  • The Sequoia seemed totally like a truck to me. Not impressive looks IMHO and rough interior ( might've been the version they showed me)not very plush and comfortable. Drove the Lancruiser and liked it alot, but backed off due to stereo problems (see landcruiser town hall and you'll know what I mean) and drive out price was more than I would pay for a plush ride with a crappy stereo- I didn't think Lexus twin was that much better for the price (though many would disagree with that.)
    I love what I'm hearing about the Escalade 2002 and have an order in. Preferred 2nd row bench seats to Lincoln Navs Captains chairs- room for more kids, etc.Plus Cargo space on Escalade ( with seats out is phenomenal. Lincoln Nav 3rd row seat is hard to get in and out and very tight, plus second row console limits cargo space.
    While waiting for my new 2002, I'm driving a 1999 Escalade, which I must say is better than I expected. Very smooth ride. It does eat gas though - as do all the large SUVs!
    I'll let you know if I actually take delivery of the 2002 after it comes in- I'm fully prepared to eat my deposit if I don't like the ride.
    TO Bob: The new Escalade is supposed to have a totally new engine(based on the Corvette) and all reviews say it is nothing like the Denali - have you driven a 2002 Escalade?
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I was in philly and checked out the LC, Sequoia, and Escalade...

    Just based on interior comfort, i'd rate them:

    Land Cruiser: Best 1st and 2nd row seating, 3rd on par with Caddy. Fit and finish better than the caddy and the sequoia, Number one pic if I had $60K to plunk down due to Off-road prowess and proven reliablility world wide.

    Sequia: Best 3rd row seating, otherwise it reminds me of a tundra w/a cap. Also liked the retractable mirrors, like my Trooper has. Not sure if it has full/time AWD/4wd? Literature and staff was un-knowledgeable.

    Escalade: 2nd row seating was very cramped as far as leg-room, climb in was difficult. 3rd row was cramped as well. Awd a definite plus, downside, no low range gearing (good for offroading and towing out of a boat ramp)

    Now I wasn't rating based on anything other than comfort and fit-finish, and interior room. I haven't driven any of them, so I can't vouche for how they are. The rear seat in my Trooper does have a little more room than the Escalade though.

    -mike
  • Staceyb: The engine in the Escapade is the same engine with exhaust manifold modifications that add an additional 20hp. The Denali and DX 6.0L have 320hp and the Escapade as 340hp. Neither engine comes from the Corvette. The Escapade has Stabilitrak which is not available in Denali.

    Unfortunately the Escapade does not come in an AL version. Other than the engine modification and Stabilitrak, I believe all other differences are cosmetic such as leather, fake wood trim and exterior front end.
  • drew_drew_ Posts: 3,382
    Yes, the Sequoia has full-time 4WD (2WD mode, 4WD High full-time mode - split 50/50, and 4WD Low PT mode). It also as the VSC stability control system.


    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    So what is the difference between that and the LC? I guess the LC can't be in 2wd at all?

    -mike
  • drew_drew_ Posts: 3,382
    Yes, that's correct. The Land Cruiser/LX470 has permanent (not full-time; full-time is like permanent but with a 2WD mode) 4WD system. For all intents and purposes, when the Sequoia's system is in 4WD High full-time mode, both operate similarly.


    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    for the longest time wear a "Full time 4wd" badge on the back?

    -mike
  • drew_drew_ Posts: 3,382
    Well, you know how all of these manufacturers use the terms interchangably. I guess it's the same reason why the Honda CR-V has "Real-time 4WD" on the back window.

    But, I digress... :-)

    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    uses a system similar to that of the Sequoia. I thought there was also some sort of locking button on the dash when the vehicle was in 4-high(?).

    Frankly, I don't know why the Sequoia, 4 Runner and Tundra just don't use the same 4WD that the Land Cruiser uses. In other markets, Toyota markets a Land Cruiser Colorado (looks sort of like a cross between our 4 Runner [same 3.4L engine & IFS] and a Trooper) that uses the permanent 4WD of the larger Land Cruiser (Amazon).

    Bob

    Bob
  • The land cruiser is permanent full time, is no 2wd option.
    tundra/ sequoia has 2wd option. But I didn´t know it was safe to use the 4wd full time... are you sure??? Is it not only meant for slippery conditions or pulling straight forward???
    Is the 4wd system on sequoia and Landcruiser about the same (Technically), apart from Landcruiser has no 2wd option???
  • heatwave3:
    My mistake I guess. Escalade brochure says 2002 has "high-output LQ9V8 was engineered exclusively for Cadillac by GM Powertrain..... Corvette style intake and exhaust ports allow increase flow through the combustion chambers."
    I personally know nothing about engines - I'll just care how it drives.
    .. There is no room behind the 3rd row seat in the Escalade from what I can tell -surprising for a vehicle larger than the Landcruiser, etc. Hope they make up for it in leg room, but it doesn't sound like it from previous postings.
  • I could be mistaken, but I believe you will find a sizeable interior space advantage for the Cadillac versus the Landcruiser. Both from a storage as well as passenger perspective. There is no comparison between towing capabilities and engine output...the Cadillac wins hands down.

    I am not particularly a fan of the Escalade's looks however its mechanical specs regarding most measurements of performance that an SUV shopper would be seeking would strongly favor the Cadillac over the Landcruiser with the notable exception of a lack of 4wd low in the Cadillac.

    I will leave it to others that know the two vehicles better to address manufacturing and other creature comfort comparisons.

    If you are seeking a vehicle with maximum storage, maximum towing capacitiies, maximum engine output combined with above average luxury features such as a Bose Sound system and AWD, the Denali XL is your only choice in 2001. Of course I am biased since I recently took delivery on a 2001 Denali XL.

    I would be interested in other's views of any other vehicles with 3 rows of seating with substantial storage behind the third row, lots of hp (320 in Denali), AWD (or 4wd), tow capacity of 8500lbs or more and lots of luxury features. The only vehicles I found to choose from were the Excursion, Suburban, Yukon XL and Denali XL. Only the Denali XL had the level of luxury I was seeking.
  • I just had the chance to see and test drive the 2002 Escalade. Truly Impressive and totally different feel than the current Escalade version. This was a very smooth ride - sedan like. Excellent power and braking with no roll or traction slippage at red light. Looks are also outstanding interior and ex. More rounded off than it's predecessor. Cargo behind third row seems to be a bit roomier than Lexus and Landcruiser, Navigator, etc.
    Third row is comfy enough for this 5'8" woman with longish legs- for a short trip - knees up though - kids liked it. Loved the retractable side mirrors. Many pluses. Only minus IMHO is second row cup holds are low - none in center console- impossible for my kids to reach when they are strapped in.
    A great improvement and my favorite of the Lux SUVS.
  • I was told by a salesman for a local Cadillac dealer yesterday that the factory had advised them that the white color is to be discontinued, immediately was his impression, in favor of an off-white or pearl white that he thought would be similar to that used on the Lexus 470.
  • I cannot get over how great the new Escalades are. I drove it and now I think there can be nothing closer to perfection when it comes to SUVs. Class leading ride. The most luxurious of them all....by FAR! Great looks, great interior layout. All wheel drive and a 345hp engine that can tow 8,500 lbs! If you haven't driven one, you wouldn't understand.
  • Escalade vs. Denali: More luxury, better backed warranty, more horsepower, more technology. If you have the money to spend in making this decision, why not just get the best?!? The engine in the Denali is similar, but GM has given the Escalade a serious advantage...They've made it the most powerful full size SUV on the market. I'd hate to spend $46000 on an inferior product. This new Escalade has been specifically designed for Cadillac. Drive it and see!
  • Too bad the Escalade doesn't come in an XL version. For those with greater space needs combined with luxury and tow capacity, the only choice that worked for me was the Denali XL with 320hp, awd and all the major features of the Escalade.

    You get the space of the Denali XL with the features of the Escalade and you get to pocket 4-5,000 by deleteing folding mirrors, stabilitrak, rear backup sensors and an ugly front end (just my opinion).
  • I have a 2002 white escalade on order and have
    been informed by my dealer that a stop has been
    put on the color white. Anybody know what gives?
  • See my post #291. Not sure why they are discontinuing white, but maybe because it makes the Escalade look "too big", whereas the pearl white, or whatever they call it, that will replace the white doesn't, and will better compete with the Lexus 470 color that seems to be so popular. If you have looked at a white and a black Navigator side by side, you may have noticed that the white one looks about two sizes larger, and that may be why Lincoln dealers seldom park them next to each other it seems.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Someone posted the only difference between the Caddy and the GMC versions of the engine are the headers... Should be a simple procedure costing less than $4K to get em installed.

    Although, having the folding mirrors on my Trooper, I can assure you that they become one of the best attributes of the vehicle :) That along with the AWD.

    Personally I don't know why Caddy didn't contract Borg and warner to make a beefed up version of the TOD system used on the Trooper. It gives a 15%f/85%r torque split initially, and can go up to 50/50, has a nice torque guage so you know how much power each axle is getting. On top of that, you can disable the AWD to conserve fuel in 2wd mode, and since it has a transfer case, you can use Low gear for towing that Cigarette boat out of the water :) Also has a rear LSD.

    I'm glad to see that GM is using the power folding mirrors from the Trooper (or at least the technology) on the Escalade.

    -mike
  • I can't imagine any engineer working on the Denali/Escalade platform using anything on the Trooper as the benchmark to shoot for. Not that the Trooper is a poor SUV, it is more than adequate in almost every area, yet it excels in few. The Escalade designers were looking to set it apart as the premier SUV, I'm not sure if it will be perceived as such or not. I can say that my Denali XL has met, or exceeded, my expectations in every way. The 6.0 & the gearing is perfectly matched, offering excellent performance around town & on the interstates. I'm sure that I read that the Escalade engine would have a different cam profile & minor valvetrain changes to compliment the exhaust changes, can't recall where or when I read this though. The Autoride suspension is also a marvelous change for the better. Well anyway, good luck to all.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    The Borg and Warner TOD system is far better than the AWD system used on the Escalade, it also allows Low range and 2wd use as well. The Trooper is actually a world vehicle considered in countries where there is no roads at all to be up there with Land Cruiser, Patrol, Pajero and Range Rover. I don't see your beloved Escalade sold in Places such as Sub-Saharan Africa, Australian Outback or South American jungles.

    As I posted above the Trooper has had folding mirrors for years before Caddy got on the band wagon, I wouldn't be suprised if they used the same motors since Isuzu is 1/2 owned by GM. As for excelling? The Trooper will be a better off-road vehicle than the Caddy and Denali for the simple reason that it has 4wd Lo.

    Borg and Warner is known the world around for designing tough components, mostly Transmissions and Transfer cases. The T-case on the Trooper is far more advanced than a simple center viscous differential which is what I believe is on the Caddy and Denalis.

    -mike
  • I'll give you credit that their are 3 places on earth where the Trooper fits in, & would be acceptable, although I'd definitely chose the Toyota. Your suggestion that the B/W transfer case is superior to the Escalade's system is humorous. It is far different from the Escalade's system, but not better. Here are a couple of questions. How often do you think an Escalade owner will be in a situation where he/she will miss a low-range transfer case? Hint...never for 99.9% of the owners. Ok, that was kind of a tough one, here's an easy one. How often will an Escalade owner stopped @ a traffic light look over longingly @ a Trooper stopped next to him while thinking "One day, when I make it big I'm gonna buy me one of those Bad Boys in case I wake up one morning & find myself stranded in the Amazon"? Answer...Again, never. The vehicles on a potential Escalade buyers list will be; an LX470, an ML430 or ML55, a Denali, a BMW X5, a Range Rover, maybe even a Hummer, but not a Trooper. These vehicles are in vastly different markets, there is little they have in common, making a comparison an exercise in futility. Fun?, well maybe, but futile in the end. Good luck...
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    They aren't in the same market afterall, a Trooper can be had for 1/2 the price!

    The B&W T-Case is better, but you are right, most Escalade owners need a Van, not an SUV!


    But if you've ever been in a Trooper limited you'll realize that it's nearly in the same class, heck Edmunds even puts the Trooper in the same class, although the Trooper did come in last place in the "Large SUV" class, it was also $10 less on the MSRP and closer to $15K less actual selling price


    http://www.edmunds.com/roadtests/comparisontests/fullsizesportutility vehiclecomparisonte/44461/index.html


    In fact I know 3 people who had deposits on Land Rovers that decided to test drive the Limited and backed out of the LR for it. One of the most under estimated vehicles in the world.


    -mike

  • The sales manager at Classic Cadillac in Atlanta has told me that the problem with the white paint on the 2002 Escalades has been resolved and all the white Escalades will now be produced. White really is pretty. I did drive one at Classic Cadillac yesterday.
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