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BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS
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Comments
**NOTE - Test numbers are in the article's "box o' numbers", but I couldn't find the pertinent information in this little time I have.
Also, remember, this test was done at temperatures over 110 degrees, a sub-5.0 sec number may have been reached by the lexus if temperatures were more moderate, around 70 degrees.
The real number will likely be a sub-6.0 number. Time will tell. I don't believe C&Ds numbers myself, but I know a lot of people believe their numbers are gospel.
From Edmunds.com
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=109021/pageNumber=3
Lightning-quick Lexus
Behind the big "L" in the grille sits a 306-horsepower monster. Without needing the forced induction of a turbocharger or supercharger, the free-breathing 3.5-liter V6 in the IS 350 is a model of linear power and smoothness. A 5.6-second sprint to 60 mph and a 13.9-second quarter-mile — digest that for a moment. That's as quick as a Mercedes-Benz C55 AMG and just dusts the 330i.
Here is a quote from Motor Trend: "The Lexus is a full second faster to 60 than the 330i and the 280hp G35. The six-speed auto is a worthy partner."
-No editing in that quote. I promise.
In that particular IS350, MT garnered 5.5 seconds to 60, meaning that Motor Trend only managed as quick as 6.5 sec for the 330i and G35. They also had a quarter mile in 14.0 sec at 99.8 MPH.
They get their numbers from accelerating in the manner that gets the fastest time; different from just standing on the gas; they likely brake-torqued the Lexus.
Consumer Reports accelerates as many consumers would = by just flooring the accelerator and shifting at redline (for manuals).
Car and Driver, Motor Trend, etc... often shift past redline (in the Civic Si they shifted against the fuel cutoff at 8,500 RPMS rather than the 8,000 RPM redline.
What is more embarassing is that you don't realize that the IS 350 was rated by a 3rd party, called WARDS, and was given an official time, after thorough testing, of 5.3 seconds.
"I think Lexus should take a course in modesty when it comes to tooting their own horn. Puffery doesn't make for a good heritage when it comes to performance cars, even if it does appeal to boy racers. Fortunately, my goddaughter isn't one."
And neither does ignorance. I am not calling you ignorant, but you are, for a lack of a better set of words, "lacking balanced knowledge".
End of story, no?!
Boy racers, eh? Tell me how many "boy racers" can afford a $40,000 USD vehicle. You don't think that BMW appeals to the mass market too? If you don't, then....
They don't lie about it, the apply a proprietary algorithm that takes into account the altitude and weather. This means you usually don't the "real" number, and sometimes they don't even say where they tested.
I'll assume that you are at work now - as am I - so you don't have time to elaborate on what you had said, but I don't understand what you mean.
So, what will be like the same thing? :P
And which comparos?
It still doesn't take away from the fact that the Lexus I-S 350 is "a second quicker than the 330i". It just means that BOTH the numbers would have been subject to said algorithm. Nothing much changes between the two.
I'm off to the beach. Have a good weekend guys...I'll be home Sunday night; maybe I'll pop in.
I am envious of you. I live in Winnipeg, and I have a lot of clients in California. All I hear about is the nice weather!
It's freezing here!
Whoa! Hold on there. I've driven the C55 and IS350 and they are completely night and day, not even remotely in the same league. And apparantly, Edmunds had a memory lapse. Here is the their quote from the review of the C55:
"With the 0-to-60-mph dash coming in at around 4.5 seconds and a top speed that's electronically limited to 155 mph, those who need speed should be more than happy with the C55."
C55 - look at powertrains and performance
Perhaps our host can explain why the contradiction in statements by Edmunds, but anyone who has driven both cars would know how ridiculous the "as fast as a C55" statement is. That is equivalent to saying a 330i is as fast as an M3. :confuse:
Please provide a reference or link. I went to the WARDS site and was unable to find any road test results for any cars. I would be curious as to whether they have a consistent testing procedure. Thanks.
The IS 350 can achieve an astounding 0-60 acceleration time of 5.3 seconds [3]
[3] AMCI-Certified acceleration testing, six-cylinder automatic sedans, Ward's Segmentation
This is a quote from the AMCI website:
Testing
AMCI's unique testing programs help the world's automakers better understand their customer, their competition and the marketplace. Our methods are so scientific and our results so reliable, they are literally the industry standard - and have made AMCI the official testing company for J.D. Power. In over 20 years, not one claim bearing our name has ever been retracted due to legal challenge.
Our testing services begin with the objective Comparative Vehicle Assessment (CVA), during which a manufacture's car or truck is objectively analyzed alongside its competition. Superiorities uncovered during the CVA can then be turned into indisputable marketing advantages through Advertising Claim Certification, substantiated by AMCI's proprietary methodology.
Advertising Claim Certification
When you stake your brand's reputation on a competitive claim, it has to be true, and it has to be absolutely defensible. AMCI testing precision and methodology are backed by a track record of success stretchhing back over 20 years. In that time, we have certified hundreds of comparative claims for dozens of manufacturers - and not one has ever been retracted due to litigation. Should one of our claims be challenged, we offer turn-key counsel if legal action is ever taken regarding an AMCI-certified claim.
And that's all folks!
Moi? I haven't a clue!
Meanwhile, maybe we can ALL keep in mind what our subject is here?
I hope so.. After all that retyping the Macromedia text.. grumble, grumble.
(Yah, I am sick to death of winter!!!)
I refer to it, as the El Camino effect.
I recently watched an old automobile review on the El Camino. This review had nothing but praises, particularly extolling its dual role; you gain the benefits of a truck as well as the benefits of an automobile.
For me, that is, the IS is a contradiction. It competes in the sports sedan category
Design: The design is not particularly breathtaking nor is it unattractive. It sacrifices rear seat room for style, but is no more attractive than a Scion tC. Certainly for a SEDAN an MB CLS would rank at the top; trumping both the IS and the 3. I have not checked the dimensions, but it appears this sedan should be classified as a coupe (or real close to one). I see nothing wrong with coupes, but an IS coupe with four doors would not be at the top of my list (G35 here). The 3 has a generous amount of room for a sedan; not for 5 girth challenged reality show wannabies, but for the average family I can see it performing the function of sedan admirably.
Performance: The IS straight line performance is amazing; much quicker than I would have guessed. But if this is your cup of tea I see better alternatives such as any of the SRT-8’s or even MB350. I’ve seen the 3 series win all of the comparisons other than the online resource that ranked it low because of cup holders and the turn signal. I don’t understand the rational to go with a RWD setup if you’re going to limit the vehicle with electronics (intrusive electronics that is) and an auto; might as well save dollars and just use the Camry setup.
Luxury: The IS appears to be put together well. I prefer the interior design of the 3, but I can see why people like the IS. If I wanted luxury though, I’d go the MB350 route (it’s 0-60 5.5 is still respectable plus you can get a manual or 7 speed auto). I wouldn’t rate the IS or 3 series as luxurious, they both have luxurious amenities.
Panache: Lexus has it according to some people (some not including myself), I didn’t see it on the old IS and don’t see it on the new one. Just today I was trailing a Jag S-type R and thought this car will be amazing in 15 years. I am one of the people that admit the BMW badge has an appeal, particularly because it has the car to back it up (talks the talk walks the walk).
I think the biggest thing for me is the useless rear seats, the pretending to be a sedan when you’re not I mean if it’s not that important to have rear seats, a CPO’s Porsche Boxter S seems a better way to spend 40K+ of hard earned after tax dollars.
I suppose to some the IS is the perfect blend of everything you would want; perhaps I’m just a pessimist (I tell you it is half empty!), but I cannot get past the El Camino.
All in good fun of course
Many have said (European auto-journalists, for example 4Car) that the IS is now one of the most beautiful sedans on the road. To me, in person, it is more beautiful than the CLS. The IS, in motion, is pure poetry!
link title
Quote from the video: "Rarely will any of us come across a saloon car as plain attractive as the new IS 250. Just as BMW decided to let a blind madman design the new 3 series, and Audi grafted a chrome beard on to the once-pretty A4... handling and steering aren't far off the exceptional BMW."
They, although call the interior "Japanese", and don't like the painted plastic, but probe the question - after mentioning BMW's projected sales numbers - wouldn't it be great to drive something not so ordinary (in comparison to BMW)?
No better looking than a tC? Hrmm... :P
Many have called the 3 series absolutely ugly!
In terms of luxury, the IS outclasses the C. I have not driven the C, but I hear the IS outhandles it. The Edmunds review goes as far to say,"The manual transmission works well enough, but given our test car's reserved demeanor, we'd probably join the other 95 percent and go with an automatic-equipped C350". Also,"Nevertheless, the C350's cabin lacks the elegance of some peers. The metal-ringed gauges look modern, and most materials are quite nice, but there are a few cheap plastics in little-seen nooks."
"The 3 has a generous amount of room for a sedan; not for 5 girth challenged reality show wannabies"
IMO, the difference in sizes b/w the IS and 3 are neglible. You could not fit 5 normal sized adults comfortably in either car. The 3 series backseat is far from generous. If it is generous, then the IS backseat is commodious. When I went into the backseat of the e90 325i after driving it, my knees were pushing forward the back of the plastic seat, so I had to splay my knees apart. With the IS, I had to do the same thing, but at least they were touching leather not plastic.
Anyways, I'm out!.. for now.
No it doesn't.
'After years of trying, someone's made a car that conquers the Three'
January 26, 2006
Features
Pistols at dawn
Watch out BMW, the new Lexus IS is gunning for the 3-Series. And it's good... very good indeed
It's down to badge snobbery. No longer do you have to opt out of BMW 3-Series ownership armed with a caveat.
You don't need an excuse, any inter-pub conversational armour, because the new IS is the car that will make Lexus a force to be reckoned within the UK market.
Think about it; where the small Beemer has become a subdued and almost awkward design study, the Lexus has blossomed, thanks to the new 'L-Finesse' design language.
Where the old IS200 threatened to make inroads, the new car punches above its weight, only lacking the Pavlovian buying response from the general public that the 3-Series has long laid claim to.
'Where the old Lexus IS200 threatened to make inroads, the new car punches above its weight'
The BMW might have the edge in 10/10ths excitement, but I buy an executive saloon to drive every day and a car that is as near-as-dammit silent will pay dividends 99 per cent of the time. Standard kit is lavish, ride is exemplary and the execution of build superlative.
You could argue that the wheels are too small, there's no diesel option and that bits of it can look a little plump.
In answer, I'll point you towards the forthcoming Sport model riding on 18s, and the imminent release of the IS220d in the UK - a diesel engine more powerful than that in the BMW 320d.
As for the plump bit, get used to it - 'flame-surfacing' and 'new edge' are so last year. It's won a Top Gear award because, after years of trying, someone's made a car that conquers the Three, but not by apeing BMW values. It's gone its own way and it's a better car for it.
Source: link title
It appears the reader of this article who interpreted the words RIP OFF is no different from a member in the "World is Flat Society" who interprets every everything he reads as supporting his notion that the earth is flat.
Look beyond your false notions and acknowledge the following: BMW3 is the pedestal of perfection in terms of sport sedans and you then will finally see the TRUTH.
You will find that on the main page for the IS 250 on the website, or on another road test of the IS 250 on the website; I forget which one, but I wanted to throw it out there for good measure.
Note, that it is mentioned that the IS 250 is not as good of a driver's car in one of the reviews they make. See! I'm not biased! Don't shoot the messenger!
But, WHOAH! Pedestal of perfection! Now that has me scratching my head. Why is there a sport model of the 3-Series if it is perfect to begin with? Why is there an M model if it is perfect to begin with? Dewey, you are way over the top on that statement, just as the TopGear writer was over the top calling the 3-Series an outright rip-off. In my opinion he is close to the truth, but a tad extreme. Close, but no cigar.
You can imagine it, because it's very hard not to be impressed with this new IS250. And very hard to imagine that when the early-adopter atmosphere of the noughties gets a handle on the whole anti-hero image thing, BMW is going to have to try much harder to sell you a car. And the chaps at Lexus are going to be very happy indeed.
Tom Ford (TopGear)
Would you mind elaborating? What does the C-series offer that the IS-350 is lacking? At what cost do these extra features come?
I remember a particular Motor Trend Test of a C320 vs ES330 vs etc...
The Mercedes cost $44,000+ and had only a cassette deck; no CD player or changer.
No.
-Yes.
The host is going step in like I do with my kids
“Boys! Smarten up!’ this usually has the result of me being mocked
"Boys! Smarten up!"
Consider yourself mocked.
Have a nice day.
Let's stir things up.
BMWs suck! Their interiors are terrible and it is hardly a driving machine. Why would it need a sport package if it is so good to begin with! Right!?
And, will anybody please read my post from above. I feel like arguing.
Still waiting for my IS 350 to come from Japan!
For those who don't know, this is a BBC show (British Television).
Each episode on Top Gear, it seems, Hammond and James give cool ratings for cars on the “Cool Wall” (Ratings: Sub Zero (best), Cool, Uncool, Seriously Uncool (... worse)). They pull out pictures of the subject car and discuss what rating to give it and where to put it on the Cool Wall. Here is what happened when the 3-Series was discussed:
Jeremy: What have you got next?
Hammond: I’ve got the BMW 3-series.
Audience Member (shouts): It looks like a Nissan.
Jeremy: It doesn’t look like a Nissan, it looks like 15 feet of car.
Hammond: It is. It’s just “some car”.
Jeremy: ... Some car. I’m sorry, do you know what? First time ever. (drops the picture of the 3-Series on the floor.)
Hammond: Can’t be bothered
Jeremy: Can’t be bothered....
Hammond Laughs.
Jeremy (continues): ... to put it on the board.
- Whole Crowd Cheering and Clapping -
Hammond: It’s just some car!
Jeremy: It is mild cheddar.
Hammond: It’s a lump of car.
Jeremy: Thaaat’s what it issss .
Crowd Clapping and Laughing.
From another episode of Top Gear, Hammond describes the interior: This dash used to curve around like the cockpit of a fighter plane, but now it’s as straight as a piece of celery, and just as interesting... In twenty years that car [the Z4] will be remembered as forward thinking, but this car will be remembered as, well it won’t be remembered... As a machine, it’s fantastic. The engineering might be great, but the snob value of the badge is even stronger. But there’s a problem with that; the very reason you buy a BMW; because it’s exclusive and different; well it just isn’t, not anymore.
Now, they love the way the car drives (and it is justified), but there is a whole lot more to a car than the way it drives, and shame on the people who think that if you don’t buy a BMW, you must not love driving! There really are other options. Competition really is a wonderful thing.
BMW's goal is to go for simple, understated luxury. You'll never see a BMW loaded with tons of gaudy wood or chrome. They keep this stuff limited, more as accents rather than the focus. They prefer to put as little on the dash as possible. (Hence one of the reasons for iDrive -- fewer visible buttons and knobs.)
Flashy they are not, but that is their goal. Some love it, some hate it.
But I wouldn't use them to pick my next vehicle (I can't afford, nor can I fit in, a Zonda).
Lexus IS: 3882 (7955 YTD)
325i ONLY: 3682 (7834 YTD)
(Lexus doesn't break down 250/350)
If you put together both 325i and 330i with no AWD/coupe/conv/wagon, so we're only comparing "RWD sedans to RWD sedans", here's the tally:
BMW: 5257 (10305 YTD)
Lex: 3882 (7955 YTD)
I agree with you on "hating" steering wheels with wood. I find it incredibly distracting and annoying to have different textures on the steering wheel... The last thing I want when I'm taking a turn is to grab a section of the wheel that I wasn't expecting and be taken off guard.
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