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BMW 3-Series Run Flat Tires

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Comments

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    TireRack.com is your friend. :)
  • jackdelia4ujackdelia4u Member Posts: 26
    Anyone know about Nexen Tires...model N3000? Tomorrow I am going to make the move and get rid of my RFT's and replace them with Nexen of Korea. They cost about $100.00 buck apiece. Any feedback is greatly appreciated! Thanks, Jack
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I had a set of Korean made tires on a car a couple of years ago that I tossed a year after I bought them, and my neighbor just tossed a set of two year old tires due to the same reason; both sets had one or more tires go out of round. Granted these weren't from Nexen, but from my perspective I'm done experimenting with Korean made tires until I hear that other folks are having better luck with them.

    Best regards,
    Shipo
  • jackdelia4ujackdelia4u Member Posts: 26
    I went on Bimmerforum and seems they have gotten some good reviews. I just can't take the noise from my RFT's anymore. I respect your opinion but I am going to give them a whirl. I will let you know of the results in a few weeks. They are most probably manufactured by Michelin in a joint venture with Nexen. Thanks again. Jack
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,504
    I had a set of Korean made tires on a car a couple of years ago that I tossed a year after I bought them. . .

    Were those your Kumhos? I've had a couple of sets, so far, and they've been quite good. Maybe I've just been lucky.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    The set that I had were Kumhos, I don't remember off-hand what was on our neighbor's Odyssey. So far at least, not a fan of Kumhos, expecially so given that a nice set of Yokohamas isn't much more expensive.
  • jackdelia4ujackdelia4u Member Posts: 26
    The Nexen N3000 go flats on my bimmer are wonderful!!!! Highly recommend. Another question....do you know if their is a hidden odometer on my car where i can see the true mileage? 2 weeks ago I found out the brand new bmw I purchased with 5 miles on the clock was a demo. They never told me this nor was it on the contract!!! Instead of the 4yr./50k mile warranty, I was told that my warranty goes to 55K miles because my car was a demo. I am really pissed off. Somehow I think that set the clock back before they sold the car to me as new. Jack
  • rflrfl Member Posts: 100
    There is an "odometer" built into the micro chip in your key fob which can be read at a BMW dealer...I'd suggest one other than the one where you bought the car. If in fact they sold it to you as new and the odometer read 5 miles and you suspect that it may have been reset...line up your evidence and contact your state's Attorney General. A demo CAN be sold as new but should be declared as such. Having owned 6 beemers and knowing the reputation of the company and most dealers, I doubt that you were totally mislead as you imply. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding...hopefully that's the case since a dealer could lose his license for the type of action you describe.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 236,830
    They could have put it in the demo program to get some sort of incentive on the car..

    That doesn't mean that the odometer is incorrect, or that the car was used as a demo. I dont think a BMW dealership would risk their multi-million dollar investment to try and roll back an odometer. Yes, they should have told you, but I wouldn't assume the odometer is incorrect.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Pretty unlikely. First off, this is a Federal crime, which often means jail time, and he would lose his franchise if convicted AND given the paltry amount he'd gain by installing a new speedometer head and knocking a few thousand miles off the car---it just doesn't make sense as a motive. I think the car went into demo as some sort of maneuver between him and the factory deals they make in the back room.
  • jackdelia4ujackdelia4u Member Posts: 26
    You might be right. I checked my sales contract and it states that the car was "new". Am i "nitpicking" or do you think I have something here? Thanks, Jack
  • jackdelia4ujackdelia4u Member Posts: 26
    They never told me it was a "demo" and the original sales contract says that they sold me a new car. Do I have anything to hang my hat on here? They just told me two weeks ago that my car was a "demo". Why? I have about 46k miles on the clock and was inquiring about an extended warranty contract for about $2,500.00. My service rep told me that I have until 55k on the clock so I have some time to decide. I asked him how that was so since I have 4yr/50k warranty. He told me that since the car was a demo, bmw gives an extra 5k miles of warranty.
  • jackdelia4ujackdelia4u Member Posts: 26
    I think I am going to consult an attorney and if they have misrepresented this car when I purchased it, then I am gong to stick it in the rear end good and hard. Thanks again. Jack
  • johnsamjohnsam Member Posts: 55
    I don't know your whole story re the "Demo" BUT before jumping off the nearest high building, your dealer may have designated the car as a demo and not have had the opportunity of putting any miles on it as such. This happens frequently.
    I have a very close relationship with my local dealership (BMW of Eugene) and as such see many vehicles treated this way. EXAMPLE: 335i is ordered by the dealer and when it arrives, they have no 335i's as demos so they label "your" car as a demo. Then you come along and buy it. It is still a demo but has no mileage on it.
    As long as the mileage is low, lets say under 500, it could have been used as a "loaner" to clients while their car was serviced. Take the 55k warranty as long as the extra 5k covers the number on the odometer. I have found over the ownership of 5 late model BMWs, that BMW of North America is VERY FAIR AND HONEST in dealings with their customers. One of my vehicles is a 2006 330i on which the warranty just ran out March 16th. The battery want yesterday, March 24th. The local dealer got BMW's approval and replaced it no questions asked.
    Have fun with your new Bimmer

    John, Springfield, Oregon
  • jtlajtla Member Posts: 388
    edited March 2010
    The key question here is whether the dealer reset and thus hide the true mileage of the car. As everyone here has said, it is almost impossible a dealer would commit a Federal crime for any marginal profit it might gain. If it did, it would not have told you the whole demo and 55k miles warranty stuff.

    Assuming the 5 miles on the clock is the true mileage, the way I see it is that you get extra 5k miles warranty because your dealer label it as demo. With 5 miles on the clock, there probably had been no other customer ever test drove your car. (When I took delivery of my custom-ordered 3-series, the odometer showed 6 miles on it.) And when I bought my "brand new" Infiniti G37, there has been 128 miles on the clock. It was not called a demo, but God knows how many people had test-drove it before I bought it.

    Just give your dealer a call and see what it has to say. Let us know.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,504
    a case of buyer's remorse. Enjoy your new car. . .or not.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think you would have to prove you are aggrieved in some way, other than a mistake in wording I mean on a contract. If it is indeed a designated "demo" that never got demo-ed, then there's really no harm done to you, in my amateur, non-legal opinion.

    Besides, that extra 5K warranty is WORTH something.
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    a […] "demo" that never got demo-ed, then there's really no harm done to you […]. Besides, that extra 5K warranty is WORTH something.

    That car has less miles on her than many other new cars have. Only 5 miles in the odometer. Very probably no harm done to the car either (unless fraud has been committed, and I do not think so).

    I'd rather enjoy the car and tipped warranty without remorse. I did a deal close to this when I bought my 335d two years ago. The difference was that I new it was a demo new car that never was demo-ed. As she was, she was to be sold to a big client, a company with a float, with a nice price rebate. I got she offered to me. So what? The purest is an enemy of the good.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 236,830
    ...is the date that they put the car into the demo program.

    The warranty on the demo is extended by 3 months and 5K miles.. So, a demo car has 4yrs, 3 mos or 55K miles from the in-service date.

    If they demo-ed the car more than 3 months before you got it, then you are going to be short on your 4 years of warranty... If not, then I wouldn't sweat it, a bit..

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  • cbrunson1cbrunson1 Member Posts: 30
    a) how does this relate to RFT? b) for many people (and presumably dealers) 'new' means untitled and 'used' means previously-titled. Demos are untitled and fall in the 'new' category. If I found the car I wanted and it had 5 miles on it, I wouldn't worry two seconds more that it had been called a demo and someone forgot to tell me about it.
  • Firebird_EOUFirebird_EOU Member Posts: 250
    Yes it's noisy but the thread is still good. I am hoping the Bridgestone 3G RFT is available soon...
  • jackdelia4ujackdelia4u Member Posts: 26
    Thank you to all who answered my thread and let me vent my frustrations! Enjoy the car I will since I have my new Nexen N3000 go flat tires...Wonderful ride. Jack
  • kdrski1278kdrski1278 Member Posts: 1
    Just took delivery of a new 328xi coupe. Is it true that the run flat tires cannot be repaired and that they have to be replaced if you get a nail in it? Can't they be patched from the inside?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    No, it's not true unless you like to sell run flat tires to people. You DO however, have to KNOW how to repair them without damaging the wheels or the sensors, so that's one reason why someone might say that. They tried and failed, so it must be the tire's fault :P

    My friends own a tire shop and they repair them FOR the BMW dealer---LOL!
  • johnsamjohnsam Member Posts: 55
    I have owned 3 Bimmers with RFTs. They wear out VERY quickly having a wear rating of 1. Yes 1.( (one)....The lowest you can buy. Wal-Mart does not sell so low.
    No, at 67 years of age, I do not drive erratically as my close friend who owns a BMW dealership suggests.
    I agree with the reply who states that "yes, they can be repaired". I have never had to repair any of them. I have however replaced them because of "early" wear. (25,000 miles max. before tread is mostly gone).
    RFTs is a way BMW cheapened the cost of production while not passing it on to the consumer. Because they purchase so many RFTs, "DEAL" is the word....not the price you are going to pay when you replace 1 or more. Your lucky if you do not have the Sports Package with the larger EXPENSIVE rear tires. YUK!!!!!!
    I have no idea where you live, BUT make sure you can buy locally (in emergency situations) before you run around in rural areas without a "donut" spare / jack & tools. My trunks carry all of these.
    RFTs have been a sore in BMW purchasers sides since inception of the idea. Nevertheless, BMW persists on loosing customers because of it. They just do not care. But then, who am I to talk. I still own 2 of the 3 Bimmers that came with "Bad Rubbers".

    Regards.John
  • capriracercapriracer Member Posts: 907
    Here's the problem with repairing RunFlat tires.

    In conventional tires, you can tell if the tire has a damaged sidewall by the abrasion either on the outside or on the inside (which is why plug type repairs are not recommended).

    With a RunFlat tire, there won't be any abrasion, AND any indication that the sidewall is damaged is hidden underneath the hard rubber insert. If the sidewall were to fail at high speed, this would be potentially fatal.

    Given that this is possible, tire manufacturers have different takes on this. Some say a RunFlat is repairable (so they think the risk is low) and others say they are not repairable (so they think the potential results are too risky). Either way, there is a risk, it's just how you want to view the risk and how much risk you are willing to accept.
  • larry175larry175 Member Posts: 68
    But if you pick up a nail or whatever on the surface of the tire a plug and patch will negate the need to buy a new tire. Being the frugal person that I am this is what I did and then put on 3000 highway miles on a vacation trip averaging between 60 and 100 mph.
  • larry175larry175 Member Posts: 68
    congrats and no and yes.
  • Firebird_EOUFirebird_EOU Member Posts: 250
    Supposedly 2010 spring but haven't heard any updates.
  • redwagon325xiredwagon325xi Member Posts: 1
    Okay folks... Because I've been reading these helpful posts for over two years I feel obligated to offer everyone my experiences and final conclusions. I ordered my 2006 325xi SportWagon (sport package) in 2006 - came from Germany and I waited for months. Just months after delivery I discovered the rft 'problem'. I had bmw replace at 8K and then when winter came I had to buy winter rft's W/rims - even less happy... WinterContacts ride better than Bridgestones by the way and I've looked forward to putting them on last 2 winters and they did a great job during Snowmageddon.

    Last month I went for it and replaced with ExtremeContact DW's. Don't just walk away from rft's, RUN! For the first time in 3 years I enjoy my car again and will continue to drive it for years now. It is a joy, minimal to no noise, absorbs bumps, rides great - totally different car without compromising handling in any way that I can notice and I'm an aggressive driver. I bought fix a flat and the other gunkier stuff in case something worse comes along. Sensors are in brakes, not rims I understand and so you can clean inside of tire if something happens. Not even bothering with spare, tools, etc. Maybe I'll get AAA or something - don't care anyway.

    Do yourselves a favor, just get over it and do the right thing for yourselves - ditch the rft's and save money doing it.
  • johnsamjohnsam Member Posts: 55
    WELL WRITTEN Your 2 year experience has been experiences by many. I have owned 3 of those problems.....Still own 2.

    BUY A BMW WITH RFTs = BUY A POTENTIALLY EXPENSIVE PROBLEM.

    As long as BMW "spends" potential customers who are aware of the problems with RFTs, they will not fully see the potential sales they could.

    Certainly they have read all the negative write ups published by both owners / drives AND publications. OFFER EITHER TIRE AS OPTIONS ON NEW CARS!

    John
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,504
    (maintenance-averse drivers who let tire pressures get too low), combined with cars with extreme high-speed potential, clearly trump people who care about how the car handles and those who drive more than 50 miles from large metropolitan centers or anywhere in the middle of the night; you're definitely on your own if you do both.

    It's clear that there are more at the door to buy BMWs, regardless of what's done to take them away from what built the brand in the first place. There's far more money to be made building fashion accessories than cars enthusiasts wish to drive.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • jaesee75edmundjaesee75edmund Member Posts: 39
    08 335i with SP and 18 inch rims. potholes galore in nyc. and, no, you CANNOT avoid them, not when they're spaced ALL over the road. bubbled and busted 4 tires in one month. still waiting for tirerack to send one from the last pothole. haven't driven my car in 5 days.

    so, finally gave up and put the car on craiglist. then, thought better of it and got a set of 17 inch rims and grand touring tires (was going for HP all season, but tirerack talked me out of it). hopefully that'll reduce if not eliminate the issue. at least if they bust I can get a cheap new tire from any local store and not have to wait for special delivery. my last 2 cars also had low profile tires, but i never busted them. they didn't have RFs. never again. don't get RFTs!!
  • firstgofastnowfirstgofastnow Member Posts: 1
    The bottom line is that it is just a joke to say that these tires are repairable. Our dealer wouldn't, the "authorized repair center" Firestone dealer we took ours to for repair quietly admitted they would not repair no matter what. Lets face it the only ones getting repaired are the ones that go flat on the dealer's lot a waiting sale. Without full disclosure of non-repair in the BMW driver owners manual they are facing class action at some point.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited April 2010
    I wouldn't have said it if it were a joke. :D I see them repaired successfully but of course I don't send the owners notes in 3 months asking them how it held up---but I've certainly seen them repaired.

    If you drive on them for too long, then yeah, you can't repair them, or if you puncture the side wall, but otherwise, I'd have a competent shop repair mine without any concern.

    Shops refuse to repair them because they don't know how, is what's really going on.

    You might findTHESE COMMENTS interesting. Notice how those who say YES you can repair a RFT are talking from experience but that those who say NO only say that because they were told it wasn't possible.
    And to be fair, that's honest enough---stay away from whatever you don't know and you'll stay out of trouble.

    I'd say the rules are:

    1. If you drive too long without air in them, they're toast

    2. If they are punctured in a sidewall, they are probably toast

    3. If you use "slime" to inflate them, you'll foul up the monitoring sensors (but they can be cleaned

    4. If you go to a shop that follows manufacturer's procedures, and if the tire is safely pluggable, you're good to go.
  • taxesquiretaxesquire Member Posts: 681
    Ive got an '07 335 with the SP, and don't see the need to keep the 18s - my understanding is that the SP gives you 17s in the front and 18s in the back so you also can't rotate your tires.

    I don't know how expensive it is to convert from 18s to 17s - how long do you think it'll take you to make up that cost?

    Also, even though the car has great accelleration, I can't imagine the change from 18s to 17s changing the dynamics much. What is your experience?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Unless I'm missing something, the Sport Package gives you 18" wheels all around, however, the front set is narrower than the rear set, and that is what precludes you from rotating the tires. The above said, I'm reasonably certain that there are 17" wheels that fit the 2007 335i, regardless of whether you want to keep the staggered setup (i.e. wider rear tires) or go with the same width at all four corners.

    Best regards,
    Shipo
  • larry175larry175 Member Posts: 68
    yup, yer xlactly right.
  • xeyexeye Member Posts: 168
    Shipo,

    You're right on with the width vs diameter. BMW also doesn't even recommend tire rotation unless there is a specific need to do so. I have almost 28,000 miles on my ContiProContact RFTs and the wear is perfectly even all the way around with a lot more tread left. Quiet, good grip and smooth, too.

    Two big reasons I elected to take the 17" wheels are for the all-season tires (on my '07 335xi) and a much lesser likelihood of cracking a wheel with the craters in the Boston-area roads. I've inadvertently whacked some potholes pretty hard and did no damage. I seriously doubt I would have escaped with 18" wheels, and therefore, less rubber between the wheel and road.

    It really depends on where you live, the road conditions and the climate.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    edited April 2010
    While BMW doesn't necessarily recommend tire rotation, I do believe that some rotation is beneficial for those folks with the same size wheels and tires at all four corners. I've had two BMWs with the same size tires front and rear, with the first car (a 328i non-SP) I followed the advice of my dealer (not to be confused with BMW corporate), and didn't rotate the tires. When I sent that car back at lease end it had ~48,000 miles on the clock, and while all of the tires met the 5mm minimum tread depth requirement, the rears had roughly half of the tread depth that the fronts had.

    When I got my second BMW (a 530i SP), I was in no hurry to rotate the tires, however, after maybe ten-thousand miles, the rear tires got so noisy that it was either try to rotate them, or buy new tires. I chose the former and was so delighted with the results that I rotated every 10,000 miles after that; managed to get over 35,000 miles out of a set of "summer" tires which is kind of unheard of.

    If/when I get another BMW, you can be assured that I will A) order the Sport Package again, B) "downgrade" the wheel/tire combo to the smallest wheel size that will fit over the brakes, and make them the same width all the way around, and C) make good well and sure that any new rubber I buy is of the good old GFT (Gets Flat Tires) variety.

    Best regards,
    Shipo
  • highlandpetehighlandpete Member Posts: 46
    We don't normally rotate tires here in the UK, even on same size wheels, as the roads are so bad and how they affect tire wear.

    As for repairs, the debate continues here as well. The UK's Tyre Industry Council (Tyresafe), don't recommend repairs unless specific criteria is met and qualified inspection takes place. Most tire shops won't take the risk, as the tire manufacturers also state a similar case. Liability is one of the main issues.

    One serious issue we have here is, we use the 'indirect' TPWS. ABS sensor based, so tires can slowly go down 'ahead' of a puncture alert. Some tires have shreaded within a few miles, suggesting users have already run many miles on low pressure, so any repairs are even more suspect. Inspections have shown the inside of the tires are in a right mess, even after just a few miles from the warning gong, completely over heated and turning to dust.

    As one tire shop stated to me, "you leave here with a new run-flat tire and get a puncture down the road, we won't repair it, it will be another new tyre". Then let forth on the way he really felt about the problems with run-flats. :mad:

    HighlandPete
  • runningdocrunningdoc Member Posts: 32
    So the width is different between the front and the rear in the sport package - 40s on the front, and 35s on the rear. If one rotated the tires, what would be the biggest drawback to even out wear? It would seem it would put the wider tire width on the rear, and the smaller patch on the front, but I would wonder if there were any other concerns, such as safety for this?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Given that the 35s are wider than the 40s, rotating the SP tires would involve putting wider tires on the front of the car, and as such, you would most likely have inner fender clearance issues when turning the steering wheel to near-lock. The other drawback of putting wider tires on the front is that when nearing the limit of adhesion (due to some combination of less than ideal conditions, emergency maneuvering, and / or spirited driving), the back end will break loose first and you could find yourself up against a guard rail (or worse).

    Best regards,
    Shipo
  • highlandpetehighlandpete Member Posts: 46
    The wider tyres are on the back, they are 255 section and the narrow 225 on the front. The aspect ratio 35 & 40 is just that, an aspect ratio of the width.

    To think of changing front to back is a no, no. We are into the whole concept of handling, controlled understeer and handling balance. The 'staggered' wheels are a sport setup after all.

    HighlandPete
  • jaesee75edmundjaesee75edmund Member Posts: 39
    as everybody's been saying, the fronts are narrower than the rears.

    regarding the cost: you can go on tirerack or discount tire or probably others and get prices. I got a nice looking set of 17s that look exactly like some people's stock 328s for only 130 each. the tires are standard GFTs, only 130 each. tirerack also talked me out of getting high performance all seasons and into grand touring all seasons, which last up to 60,000 miles vs. 40,000 for the high performance (he asked me if I do any "high performance" related stuff. I said no). grand total, including shipping was 1160. or only about 300 bucks more than what I would;'ve spent on the rear RFTs alone!!

    so, if I kept the RFTs I would've had to replace them every 20,000 miles or so. with the grand touring tires, I won't ahve to change them for nearly 3 times as long. that defintely makes it worth while.

    performance: the 17s are lighter than the 18s. so, you'll have less unsprung weight=better handling in some situations (such as when encountering nyc potholes that literally swallow smart cars). also less weight to rotate=faster rotation. therefore, you might get a very slight improvement in acceleration. the down side is that I'll probably not be able to corner as fast anymore given the taller and softer sidewalls. not much loss for me.

    well, I still haven't received the new set of wheels and tires yet, but I'll let you know how they go. I just received my third replacement RFT for the fronts yesterday. so, for the first time in 5 days I was able to drive my car. which brings up another EXCELLENT point about the switch from RFT to GFs: I don't have to wait days for a replacemtn tire anymore. I just have to go to the nearest auto shop and they'll have my very ordinary touring tires for a very ordinary price.

    oh, and as for the spare: the front 18s fit on any corner of the car, so I'll just keep one of them in the trunk to use as a full size spare! it'll be a spare that you wouldn't even need to check the pressure on! I'll have the fastest buick, i mean , bimmer on the block!!
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    edited April 2010
    "the down side is that I'll probably not be able to corner as fast anymore given the taller and softer sidewalls. not much loss for me."

    That isn't entirely true. Why? Not only are the 18" wheels heavier, but the bulk of the weight is further from the axis of rotation, and if you've ever tried to turn a heavy gyroscope against its will, you'll realize that the further that weight is from the axis, the longer it takes to actually turn the wheel from its desired rotational plane.

    FWIW, there was a study done a few years ago that looked at the handling aspects of various wheel sizes, and said study found that the sweet spot for handling was in the 15"-17" range (many weekend racers have actually downsized the wheels on their E-36 3-Series cars to 15” and gotten better lap times). Move to smaller or larger wheels beyond the range and handling starts to fall off. The flip side of course is that larger wheels allow for larger brakes, so unless you're going to upgrade your BMW with a Big Brake Kit, then you're likely to get better handling with 17" wheels than 18" wheels. Counter intuitive I know, but there you have it. :)

    Best regards,
    Shipo
  • jaesee75edmundjaesee75edmund Member Posts: 39
    so, it's a win, win, win situation for me then? sounds good to me. i get cheaper tires and wheels, better ride, better pothole protection, easier replacement, etc, etc. can't wait to drive my bimmer with the grandpa tires!! :D
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Win-win! Yup, unless you cannot live without the bling-bling 18s. ;)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Nah, to be a real grandpa you'd have to switch to bias-ply tires with fat white walls!
  • larry175larry175 Member Posts: 68
    wait a second Grandpa. This grandpa has a 2009 335xi with all the trimming and a Porsch. And I don't have an white walls.
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