BMW 3-Series Run Flat Tires

boston303 · August 2010

For the price differential the BMW damn well should, however.. for the price differential Ford has made up substantial ground. ... and that's the point. With rubn flats which are hardly performance tires, the quality of ride, diminished handling characteristics, Yes I have driven it more that a few laps on a road course and I am very familiar with handling. (my S2K is a ton more fun on a raod course...but that should be expected..) BMW is becoming a Ford and they better watch out... Oh teh "Joy" of driving what used to be the Ultimate Driving Machine... That moniker is left to the few true sports sedans taht BMW still makes and provides with a stick shift, but even they are hampered by the tires...Grab a 325I, I'll drive the Fusion let's see...

kyfdx · August 2010

Given the sizes you list, your '06 325Xi had all-season tires, and your '09 328i has summer rubber (at least, the size you give is the rear-tire size for a sport package equipped car.... that would come with summer tires)..

Even though both are runflats, those are two completely different categories of tire type. Don't be surprised if the tires on your '09 328i end up wearing a lot faster than you think... (nice choice in car, though..)

bigkev · August 2010

Hi everybody
Today I went to the BMW dealer near me and obtained the part number for the spare wheel kit which they describe as LUGGAGE COMPARTMENT EMERGENCY WHEEL STORAGE. part number BM - 51470445340. this part number is the same world wide, and includes the 'donut' tools, storage bag and a false floor panel which covers the top of it. The parts guy said They have ordered two in the last week for people.
I will be interested in hearing if anybody follows this up and what the result is.

seekingaudia4 · August 2010

Just go to one of the discount tire stores, buy a $100 custom rim and slap one of your runflats on as a spare, you get a full size spare for less.

BTW I test drove an Accord, a Malibu and a Fusion, before moving up to test drive an A4, LaCrosse, A5, A6, C300, C350, E350, IS250, IS350, and the 328i, ended up with the 328i, nuff said.

jgraffman · August 2010

Thanks, you make sense.

Even tho both are Florida cars, it's logical that AWD vehicles would be provided with all-season tires. Didn't need an X version, but that was the only way I could get that car.

You care correct, my '09 has smaller tires in front.

After my previous run-flat experience, I will be delighted if get 20,000 miles.

bigkev · September 2010

Who said simple isn't the best? Great idea - who cares if it hasn't got a bmw sticker on it! Why didn't I think of that!
you sound like me with the testing - I've driven the car dealers nuts doing the same thing. Came to the same conclusion about the Beema. Enjoy.

bigkev · September 2010

Who said simple isn't the best? Great idea - who cares if it hasn't got a bmw sticker on it! Why didn't I think of that!
you sound like me with the testing - I've driven the car dealers nuts doing the same thing. Came to the same conclusion about the Beema. Enjoy :confuse:

seekingaudia4 · September 2010

Thank you, yes my 328i with the sport mode on has transformed me from someone who hated driving to now earger to get up in the morning, get in the car and head to work

I installed four Hancook V12 performance tires to replace the stock runflats BTW. This tire is amazing, could not get it to slip, spin or burn no matter how I try, it bites into the pavement this good.

puffin1 · September 2010

A Ford Fusion over a 3. I think the unusual summer heat in MA is getting to you. :shades: :shades:

boston303 · September 2010

Bear in mind I said an automatic 328 XI with runflats... actually I think the offered slow BMW was an automatic 325... either way... I'll drive the Fusion... Promise the outcome will be much closer than you think.... Cudos to Ford for having come so far.. What was the last ralley win for BMW in Europe? LOL, I enjoy the conversation a lot... dollar for dollar at the low end of the BMW line with an automatic transmission, Ford has a contender. There is no way it comes close on upper level 3's with stick shifts. Those are real drivers cars. The low end with automatic is nothing more than transportaion. By the Ford if that's all one wants..

Yeah it was hot...

edwardsf · September 2010

There is one more thing to do besides staying out of the oppressive Boston heat; actually drive a 328i. I test drove lots of cars, including Fusions. The steering, road feel, handling and usable torque are completely different in the two cars. The supposed downfall - an AT - is not an issue at all in DS or manumatic modes. I am sure Shipo is right (as usual!) that the manual is much more rewarding. But compared to other recent fast shifting transmissions on sport sedans (e.g. A4, G35, C300), I found the 328i transmission quite good.

A Fusion and 328i are probably not on anybody's comparo list on the planet except yours for some reason. And why compare a 2011 Fusion to a 5 year old 325? The Fusion is a good car - enjoy it. But compare it to 328i because the RFTs are harsh on broken pavement?

boston303 · September 2010

The point you miss is that I own or actually lease a 2010 328XI with an automatic transmission. Definitely a mistake. The run flats are not only harsh on rough pavement, they offer no performance, they wear quickly and they are expensive. God forbid you have a flat someplace where run flat replacements have to be ordered... Not sure if it was you or someone else who suggested the 325, but either way, dollar for dollar, the value the Fusion offers is hard to dispute. I have hung onto Fusion but there are plenty of other worthwhile cars, but the stark contrast is worth considering. There is little sacrifice over the car I am driving now. I am looking forward to the end of the lease. This is about as vanilla a car as you get, yet it says "BMW"... Not worth it. Will not buy or lease another BMW. Tires for my S2K are less expensive, immensley higher performance, fast wearing albeit, but that's why I bought them. No options on the BMW side...What a "joy"... too bad the y left the Ultimate Driving Machine behind..

taxesquire · September 2010

I had a slow leak in my rear passenger RFT - it's the stock runflat that came on my used 07 335i.

Anyway, the service guy @ firestone agreed to loolk @ the tire but warned me that they don't fix runflats b/c the tire thickness makes it hard to do right unless its a problem with the valve stem.

From reading posts here, I was already prep'd to leave and go somewhere else, after waiting 10 min he actually said that because my car is an 07, they can fix the flat, which they did.

It sounds fishy that they could fix a RFT on an 07, but not a later model. Comments?

seekingaudia4 · September 2010

So you have two main issues with your BMW 328, first the x-drive, then the runflats, I recall the auto was an issue before but not anymore?

Luckily I can live without AWD, I leased a 2011 328i. I also replaced the stock RFTs with a new set of Hancook V12s, I call it the "best $570 option" for my new toy

As mentioned by another member, the 328i auto with DS/manual mode, I then turn the DTC on (I only do so on dry pavement), now the only thing I regret is not buying the sport package, because the soft suspension on my 328i suddenly became the limiting factor

Can you say that about a Fusion? I did test drive a Fusion just you know.

edwardsf · September 2010

So if RFTs are the only issue, go get some goflats. I have no issues with mine but when they wear out, I am going to get goflats.

It sounds like you, like a lot of drivers, value safety, reliability, ease of use, and economy; handling just does not seem that important to you. Fair enough. But if you believe that you are going to convince anyone that your 175 hp 4 or noise-heavy 6 cylinder Fusion steers, handles, or accelerates similarly to the BMW, you got a tough challenge.

bballww21 · September 2010

Hi, I am buying a 135i coupe with 18" RFT. The finance guy offered me 5 yr road hazard insurance for $1371. I've researched online and never saw anyone paying that much. What do you guys think? Should I decline it? THanks

jgraffman · September 2010

That's about half a dozen replacement rims.

puffin1 · September 2010

Yes,you decline it. :shades:

mikethek · September 2010

Yes you should decline it at that price. Offer $600 and I bet they accept. They are still making money at that price.

neu1 · September 2010

I have read/ talked ad nauseum with people. I have a 2009 328i with continental all season tires. I am in Chicago worried about winter driving .

Some say, go to a parking lot with current tires and practice should be fine. some say replace with winter tires and rotate each year.

Others still say get rid of RFTs and replace with a good GFT all season

Any input on driving with the current tires?

Also if I choose to go with GFT"S would I have to purchase new wheels also or can I use my factory wheels?

Anybody?

shipo · September 2010

You're overthinking things a bit. A few points:

1) I lived in Chicago (and the surrounding burbs) for over a dozen years. The winter weather they get there really isn't all that severe, and as such, my opinion is that a good set of all-season tires is all you really need.

2) Wheels are equally capable of sporting RFTs as well as GFTs, so no, you don't need to buy a second set of wheels for your winter and/or all-season set.

3) With #2 in mind, if you are inclined to change your tires seasonally, then it will be MUCH CHEAPER over a three to four year period to simply buy yourself a complete winter wheel/tire set as opposed to swapping the tires on and off your factory rims twice per year.

4) Were I in your shoes, I'd buy a set of winter wheels and tires and then when your factory rubber is say, 10,000 miles gone, I'd buy a set of summer GFTs. I would then keep the factory rubber to be remounted on the car just prior to disposing of it (either because you're selling it or turning it back in at lease end).

Firebird_EOU · September 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viV-H7WW-l4

When is it going to be available for BMW cars...

shipo · September 2010

Hopefully never. Why never? It is my hope that BMW will abandon this lame RFT experiment and start equipping their cars with a real spare tire well and a jack (along with GFTs of course). :P

kmreece722 · October 2010

Purchased a used 2005 325 CI a month ago. No spare. BMW was able to sell me the rim but said they couldn't provide the tire, doh! The car will only hold a donut spare, not a full size. I can't figure out what the original part number was on this vehicle and find a darn tire for the rim. I don't need one of those run-flat spares. Already tried local salvage yards, no luck.

kyfdx · October 2010

The 2005 325Ci will hold a full-size tire.. If it came with a space-saver spare, or no spare, it may have a different filler support, to hold up the trunk floor, but there is definitely room for a full-size spare in there..

kyfdx · October 2010

I just looked at mine... It's on a 330Ci, and it's a 17" space-saver wheel.. The tire size is 125/80-17..

If your space-saver rim is a 17" rim, then I'm sure that is the correct size..

Be certain that you don't already have a spare... On space-saver equipped cars, there is a plastic tray underneath the carpet, that looks only deep enough to hold a spacesaver tire... Un-screw the wingnut, and that tray comes out, and the space-saver spare is underneath the tray.. When you take everything out, there is plenty of room for a full-size spare tire/wheel in there..

regards,
kyfdx

kmreece722 · October 2010

I freaking love you guys. Took the wing nut off, lifted the plastic cover and I'll be a SOB, the tire was in there. You ROCK! Okay I've got one more for you. The car came with one key, with the buttons, etc. I just picked up another electronic key and a valet key. The electronic key locks and unlocks the door if I use it in the door. The buttons don't work and when put in the ignition it won't turn. Is there some type of initialization that needs to be done to make the buttons and the ignition turn on with the new key? XOXOX

kyfdx · October 2010

Don't feel bad about not finding the spare.. I bought mine from a BMW dealer back in April.. Looked the car over for about an hour.. "Hey, this car doesn't have a spare!".

Took the salesman about 10 minutes to figure it out, himself. I've had two other E46 3-series, but they both had full-size spares..

Your key will have to be initialized by the dealer.. Expect 0.5-1.0 hrs. of labor... So, $60-$150.... :surprise:

upstatedoc · November 2010

Conti RFT are starting to get noisy w/ 18,500 miles on them. I know we have discussed this a million times but what are the best choices for GFT's on the 328i xdrive. Once and for all!

larry175 · November 2010

You are lucky. If you had Bridgestones the noise would have started at 5000 miles. I just put Conti Extream DWS on and after 2 days, who knows, and check this out. $650 for tires and M & B and alignment. Then Im told I have 1 cracked wheel and two bent ones. I order 3 rims @ $185 each. Remount and etc $270+$185X 3 for rims=$825 + original $650=$1475. I could have ordered a set of 18" wheels and tires for $1500.

boo hoo

johnsam · November 2010

I have never bought "Conti RFTs" but I can give you my experience with 2 sets of Bridgestones.
Bought new 2006 330i.
First set of Bridgestones lasted 24,000 miles then having hardly any tread.. At the time I was 63 years old and the wife was 61. Do not drive hard!
Bought 2nd set of Bridgestones. Lasted 26,000 miles again hardly any treat.
Then bought Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus. Have had on for 10,600 miles. LOVE THEM
225/40R-18 FRONT /// 25535R-18 REAR (Sports Package)
I will NOT RUN RFTs again
I have always carried a "donut" spare + tools etc. so that is no problem.
Far less expensive at $1,094.00 INCLUDING Install / extended warranty / chrome valve stems etc etc.

HAPPY MOTORING

shipo · November 2010

The best choices? Uhhh, sorry to bust your chops like this

, but as with many other things in life, "best choices" depends. Upon what? Geez, lots of stuff; how about, all-season versus dedicates winter or summer tires? How about tread life versus absolute stick to the pavement in the summer months? How about... Ahhh, you get the idea.

So, what are you looking for in a tire?

bigkev · November 2010

Pirelli! :shades:

1socalgal · November 2010

(1) Is it possible to order a 2011 3 series BMW without run flat tires? (2) If not, can the run flats be swapped out for radials (including changing the rims)? (3) Is there room in the trunk - below the floorboard - for a spare?

shipo · November 2010

1) No, BMW will not sell you a 2011 3-Series equipped with anything other than RFTs.

2) Yes, you can throw the RFTs away and replace them with GFTs (Gets Flat Tires); the best part is that your factory wheels work equally well with either type of tire.

3) Yes, and No. There is room in the trunk for a spare (and a jack kit), however, there is no room below the floor for even a "Space-Saver" spare.

If I ultimately opt for a new BMW with RFTs, I'll yank the RFTs and replace them with GFTs, and in lieu of a spare, I'll simply put a can of goo and a small air compressor in the trunk.

cdnpinhead · November 2010

over the past several years involve a slow leak caused by a nail or screw or whatever puncturing the tire. When one tire is losing air more quickly than the other three, examination has always resulted in finding something the tire which could be removed and the tire patched at my convenience within a few days.

The one exception in the past 10 years is why I will never own a car with RFTs. I was driving from Lakeview, Oregon, to Winnemucca, Nevada, on one of the most desolate (& beautiful) roads in the U.S. There is one tiny town on the highway in 211 miles -- great fun to drive with almost no traffic. One beautiful Sunday morning I was about 60% of the way through the drive when a rear tire went completely flat. I stopped quickly enough to not damage it, took a 20-minute break to install the matching full-size spare & drove without further drama to Beatty, where I spent the night -- on to Phoenix the next day & got the tire repaired. Absolutely a non-event, but with RFTs it would have taken me half a day to even get to a town, followed by an X-day wait for a new tire & highly questionable mounting of it. Guess I could have shipped the bad wheel-tire assembly to Reno or the Bay Area to have them mount the new tire and ship it back. Anyone want to guess how long that would have taken, or what it would have cost?

RFTs were developed for heavily-populated areas (like the Northeast U.S. or Germany) with a major city every 50-100 miles, not for the other 85% of the U.S. and Canada.

upstatedoc · November 2010

I would be happy with all-season and tread life over stickiness. I'm not pulling many "G's" these days. :P

shipo · November 2010

Yeah, me too.

So, next question: What size tires are currently on your car?

upstatedoc · November 2010

205/55R-16

1socalgal · November 2010

these comments about RFTs are very sobering. I was toying with the idea of getting a 2011 3 series BMW, but coming down through these comments I have concluded that the RFTs are a deal breaker. I drive a 1987 325is (manual) that's still in terrific shape (garaged and maintained since birth) and the problems reported here about a noisy compromised ride are really foreign to my experience. I'll keep what I have and wait until BMW comes to its senses. My independent BMW repair shop said the car has another 100,000 miles in it. I'm patient. I'll just wait. Thanks very much for all the info.

shipo · November 2010

I'm thinking I wouldn't recommend you hold your breath. BMW is now in their sixth model year of mandatory RFTs and there is no sign that they have any intention of reverting to GFTs. That said, it isn't really all that expensive to re-tire and set your car up the way it should have been in the first place. :P

shipo · November 2010

Bang for the buck, the tire getting the best/most buzz in this segment right now is the Continental ExtremeContactDWS at $94 per tire.

I'm running Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires and cannot recommend them enough, they're $134 per tire and provide all the grip I could ever want in non winter conditions (and even then they're not bad).

Honorable mention also goes to a few other models:
$152 -- Michelin Primacy MXV4
$112 -- Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S
$119 -- Michelin HydroEdge

capriracer · November 2010

I've got a lot of experience interpreting complaints and here are a couple of things you need to consider:

- No matter what product we are talking about, you will find complaints.

- No matter what brand we are talking about, you will find complaints.

- Sometimes customer's expectations are pretty high, and that will generate more complaints. Certainly a BMW owner will have high expectations - and sometimes that expectation is not realistic.

- The only real way to find out if the complaints are excessive is by comparing against otherwise identical things.

- Run Flat tires have been a source of complaints on BMW's. Part of this, is just the normal problems associated with high performance tires. Part of this is just the normal problems associated with BMW's alignment specs. Part of this is just the normal problems associated with BMW "No Rotation" policy. Part of this is just the normal problems associated with the cost of the tires.

In other words, there are a lot of reasons why folks would normally complain, but because these are unusual tires, the complaints are all being grouped as though they are all unique to RunFlat tires - which they are not.

- But there are some legitimate complaints about RunFlat tires. Sorting this out is difficult for the uninitiated. Just be aware that there are many folks who have BMW's with RunFlat tires who are quite happy with them - some were not aware they had RunFlat tires at all!

blueroad · November 2010

Of course you will get complaints on any widely distributed product.
Of course these are individual anecdotes.
But the problems with BMW RFT's are not some illusion, like aggregating UFO anecdotal reports as proof. There is a systemic problem that BMW has reacted to with dodge and denial.

In our anecdote, my wife is an extremely conservative driver, and her tires became incredibly noisy at less than 10,000 miles, and BMW would not replace them. Many others had flats and were stunned at a cost they had not anticipated since all the marketing was "No maintenance fees until 50k" Sure, tires can be an exception, but such an exceptional cost of ownership so quickly should be disclosed.

They are forced by law to disclose expected gas mileage as an estimate of ownership cost, just as drug companies have to disclose side effects, even if not extreme. There is no law that requires disclosure of the costs of RFT in the "Some may experience..." category, but they could have been forthright about it.

johnsam · November 2010

GREAT PHILOSOPHY!
GREAT WRITEUP!
Experience is a wonderful method of comparison. Have run 45 sets of RFTs in 2 BMWs and after the fifth set, will not run again. 122,000 miles of disappointment (re early wear / rough riding / is enough to make a change. First set lasted 21,000 miles / second 25,000 / third 25,000 / forth 26,000 / fifth 25,000. Pattern here! Now at age 67, I would like some reliability in my life.

John

upstatedoc · November 2010

edwardsf · November 2010

shipo, How does the inflate in a can concept work anyway?

Specifically, I would think there would be two problem scenarios: 1) where the puncture is big or where the puncture is in the sidewall - a can of foam does not seem like it could repair the tire and you would have to get the car towed. 2) In long journeys in rural areas (as described above in the post about Nevada). How many miles does that foam last?

For instance on Highway 395 in eastern CA, you probably cannot get a BWM tire in the 500 miles in between Santa Clarita and Reno. So you would have to wait in say, Big Pine or Lone Pine or Tom's Place a few days (certainly till Monday) for a garage to get it.

Not that I don't like Big Pine but....

capriracer · November 2010

I'm sorry, but it seems my post is being mis-interpreted.

I am NOT saying there aren't problems, I am merely pointing out that many of the complaints aren't caused by the tire's ability to operate without inflation pressure. For example, rapid treadwear is the result of the tire being a high performance tire with a tread cpompound being selected for grip rather than wear. Also, irregular wear is caused by BMW's camber spec.

Put another way, if BMW were to discontinue the use of RunFlat tires, the rapid wear and irregular wear complaints would not be solved.

I hope this clarifies things.

dohrmc · November 2010

What a shame that such a good car should be stuck with such a potential problem. I will be buying a new car in the next few months, and the RFT are a deal breaker for me.
If I am up in the North Georgia mountains, or have a flat headed for the Gulf beaches cutting across Alabama, I will be there for a while.
Sorry BMW, you are out of the running for my next vehicle.
There is no chance the Germans will backtrack on their decision to go to run flat tires.

shipo · November 2010

The inflate in a can product can pretty much refill a tire and stop the leak unless it is a catastrophic puncture (very rare, so rare in fact that in my million and a half miles of driving I've never had one). As for how long it lasts, as far as I know, it isn't a "foam" per-se, but a latex sealant that hardens; it will supposedly last for a very long time (like a thousand miles or more), long enough to get you out of the desert and then some.

http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/detail.jsp?ID=38

The downside of course is that you will typically need to either repair the TPMS sensor or replace it after usage of the sealant; however, given the cost of replacing one or more RFTs versus the cost of repairing/replacing GFTs, you'll still be ahead of the game if you buy a new TPMS sensor after each use of the sealant.

BMW 3-Series Run Flat Tires

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