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BMW 3-Series Run Flat Tires

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Comments

  • bbrammer1bbrammer1 Member Posts: 5
    Any one know where I can get a donut to fit a 2007 328 with Sport package? Can't find one that fits and I need to ditch the run flats or the car.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    If I'm not mistaken, your dealer can sell you one.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    I'm not sure if they make a donut that fits the E90, except for the '06 325i sedan...

    Leatherz has one.... but, they specifically exempt the E90, except for that one model.... They say it won't clear the brakes..

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  • chewy2chewy2 Member Posts: 19
    My BMW is a 2007 328i sedan. How about front wheel RFTs wearing the outside edge faster than any other part of the tire? Just need camber adjustment?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Toe in or toe out. If you can see a marked and obvious wear difference easily, then the tires are toast anyway, and alignment may not do any good.
  • steveaccordsteveaccord Member Posts: 108
    I premise, I have run my 2008 335xi for 3 years on the original set of Bridgestone RTF (more importantly running ~32,000 miles on them).
    I had never really considered them in terms of enhancing any 'sport driving experience' but rather a technology that makes sense in terms of improved safety (read "no tire blow-ups").
    So the safety considerations were really the trap in having me give no consideration to the fact that driving around Chicago is the last place to have a sport car set with RTF.
    From my 3 years experience and picking up on some of the posts in this forum I would summarize the following:

    - In an average metropolitan US area RTF tires make no sense (caveat, I am speaking about the Bridgestone set, I hear that some of you have had a much more positive experience with other Brands).
    - I have always driven cars with sporty dynamics and no cushy import or domestic vehicles so I am used to firm rides but my impression was that the RTFs were not matched to BMW chassis. Probably that type of technology requires tuning of shocks etc. to be of any worth.
    - Around Chicago I had many jarring impacts while driving on RTF, they were not good for either me or the car chassis and let to 3 new tires (an 1 wheel) being replaced (thank God I had gotten the tire insurance from the dealer because they are quite expensive).
    - I had no issue with wear but finally I did swap them for a new set of the same specs, but conventional, Bridgestones. The issue was the rubber was cracking (due to the abundant salt used in winter around Chicago). One reason for not seeing the excessive wear others have reported could be that the car was driven locally (Madison WI was probably the farthest destination) on roads repaved in the last 10 years using the new asphalt composite materials with transversal micro-grooving (like the south LSD etc) rather than coarser surfaces used elsewhere.

    In conclusion, and linking back to the title of my post..., perhaps RTF technology is not there yet, but surely there are additional factors that are in the way of getting the most out of them. The first reason could be the lack of modifying the car set-up to allow shocks to work harder since decreased pliancy and absorption of the thick wall in RTF tires would need to be compensated. The second is that being a new technology we as drivers are not completely aware of either their limitations as well potential.
    Personally I will keep a distant eye on what happens in this field but for the moment I am not going back to RTF.....after switching to the conventional set my experience with the car ride has been way more rewarding....and yet I would like to see this tech and the safety improvements it warrants move forward......Who knows may be I'll reconsider after test driving over pot-holes the 2014 i8 i plan to buy when it will become finally available.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    didn't you notice how much quieter the new tires were?
  • steveaccordsteveaccord Member Posts: 108
    To be totally honest with you noise has not been an evident gain....Keep in mind, when it comes to cabin noise I have not been impressed at all by any of the models I test drove in the BMW lineup (once again, the Eden highway in Chicago was the ground for such tests and the pavement there may be rather coarse)...Back then to my astonishment found cabin noise to be on the same par even for the 535xi (never considered so never test drove any series 7 but have experienced higher cabin noise compared to other brands for the 3, X3 and X5 models). That said I consider it entirely acceptable considering that more often than not it is drowned by my own musical selections blasting via the premium sound system (arias by Maria Callas being the best at that). :)
  • reggie6reggie6 Member Posts: 26
    I just replaced the OEM run flats on my 2007 BMW 328xi coupe. They had 30K. I replaced them with get flats…the Continental DWS. I could not stand the noise any more and I contacted many many dealers and discussed it at length. I purchased a donut from Barvarian Motorsport for $335, it is the exact same donut I would get from BMW dealer in US if they would sell it to me. They won't. You have to go to Canada to purchase the donut kit. I don't understand why the dealers wont sell it here ( Im in the Northeast) but they all told me they can't order it, the orders get rejected.

    Meanwhile, I am thrilled with the Conti DWS, great handling in wet. Good handling in snow…we only had about a 5 inch snow so far this season but the car was so improved from my old tires it makes me wish I did this last year. Best of all, the noise is finally GONE….

    Not sure why the OEM were so noisy. We also have a 2011 535xi equipped with Conti run flats, same tire as my 2007 had, just different size. That car has 23 K and its not noisy. I called Continental and Tire Rack to discuss if the compound on the newer tires would create less noise if I got "updated" run flats. Clearly noise is an issue in the 3 Series, they told me they would be the same as my OEM. Maybe its the size of the tire...
  • Firebird_EOUFirebird_EOU Member Posts: 250
    however not in snow as this year didn't snow much. Definitely quieter and smoother over bumps. I did unfortunately had a side-wall puncture/flat from hitting a pothole after a week of getting it 20k miles later it's running fine. I also got a donut but no longer carries in trunk for the daily commute (save weight and shifts around in trunk.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well the RFTs on my MINI used to sound like Maria Callas on a bad day. :P
  • steveaccordsteveaccord Member Posts: 108
    Oh My! That is the most alarming bit I have heard in so far on the topic. Let me recommend to restore your auditive sensory perception by listening to the Lucia di Lammermoor on EMI classic label or 'The very best of Maria Callas' or the more recent release by EMI classics 'The very best of Maria Callas'. There is still nowadays a good reason to believe the attribute "La Divina" bestowed on her was absolutely deserved. Make sure you buy the CDs, any digital compression cannot capture the 'dynamic qualities and timber' of such voice.
  • johnnynukejohnnynuke Member Posts: 1
    I'm a newby to BMWs and am picking up my first one next week. Was doing a little research on the RFTs that it has and am now concerned with the negative comments I've seen (most are dated a few years).
    1. Are there still reliability / performance issues with the run flat tires?
    2. Any thoughts on the tire/wheel warranty that BMW offers? 5 yrs for about $1500.
    Any advice is appreciated.
  • bbrammer1bbrammer1 Member Posts: 5
    They are reliable for not getting a flat, but they will get really loud as they wear out. Too expensive, my Bridgestones only lasted 15k, pure trash.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,498
    The primary concern I have with the RFT concept is the ability to get them replaced or (rarely) repaired in the hinterlands. These tires seem to be made with the assumption that when one needs replacement there's a place just down the street who will do the work. In my part of the world, that's most assuredly not the case. Getting them repaired, by the twelve shops on the planet who are willing to do so, isn't especially straightforward either.

    If you live in one of the overcrowded areas on the coasts and rarely travel very far you'll probably think they're okay, but expensive.

    If not. . .
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • badswingbadswing Member Posts: 5
    the fact that the insurance is now $1500 says it all. i think it was originally $350 and has gone up and up. can be only one reason....the tires suck. just got a 335 and will change out the rft to a regular tire and will buy the spare kit.
  • steveaccordsteveaccord Member Posts: 108
    The answer to your first question varies with where you drive your vehicle and the brand of the RTF mounted on the car you are purchasing.
    Most of the complaints in this post refer to the Bridgestone RTF, others have had better experience with other brands/models
    Also if roads you tend to drive are not in good conditions with lots of uneven surfaces and potholes I would suggest not to go RTF.
    Lastly, should you get your car with RTF I would definitely go with tire/wheel insurance coverage.....just ask for a 3 years coverage, the 5years does not make much sense since it is unlikely that you will not be changing them later than 3 and the insurance is on the specific tires installed on the car at time of purchase. When you will replace them you will have the option to sign up on additional coverage if that will make sense.
    In my experience the insurance pays off big time with RTF, but as pointed out by others, I paid only $350 for my policy (5 years, but basically used it for 3 before changing to non RTF tires).
    I hope this helps
  • badswingbadswing Member Posts: 5
    and what happens when you get a spike in ur tire, you are 3 hrs away from ur destination that happens to be a very important engagement and dont have time to find a tire store to replace it? like what happened to me and i missed a very important meeting. a spare tire is a good idea.
  • bbrammer1bbrammer1 Member Posts: 5
    Don't buy in. RFTs are a waste.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    If I offered you a set of four brand new tires and one new rim right now, would you buy it and put it in your garage for next five years? That's how much $1500 would buy you. Thanks, but no thanks...

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • steveaccordsteveaccord Member Posts: 108
    I agree with you.....RFT are not lucky charms useful to fend off bad luck, because your case is definitely off the chart in terms of bad luck. Perhaps, I should have started at RFT 101.....the technology is a safety one aimed at avoiding tire blow-ups. It may marginally improve certain handling characteristics since the walls of the tire itself are thick enough to support the weight of the vehicle and the extra rigidity may help under given conditions. At reduced speed (I believe they are rated up to 50 MPH when deflated/punctured etc) it also allows the vehicle to be operable for a decent mileage (yes I agree no east- to west- coast trip type of mileage). Nuisances abound as well and there is plenty of point raised in that regard in previous posts.
    :)
  • steveaccordsteveaccord Member Posts: 108
    I agree, 5 y and that kind of money are not justified IMO.
  • bbrammer1bbrammer1 Member Posts: 5
    At least my 328 kept its value, best way to remedy the problem is to get rid of it. Sold it for almost what I paid two years ago.
  • badswingbadswing Member Posts: 5
    the technology has nothing to do with safety. an act was passed to make cars as light as possible combined with the ridiculously high cafe standards and perrelli and goodyear (i think) developed this tire saving weight on a spare. bmw wont let it go and are into it big time. they also have now put a 4 cyl in a 5 series and new 3 series will be 4 cyl. ideology over performance. ask any dealership (at least on the east coast) and they will tell they have stacks of complaints. supposedly only a problem here. but 101 is having a spare. period.
  • steveaccordsteveaccord Member Posts: 108
    from wikipedia:

    "A run-flat tire is a pneumatic vehicle tire that is designed to resist the effects of deflation when punctured, and to enable the vehicle to continue to be driven at reduced speeds (up to 90 km/h or 55 mph), and for limited distances of up to 100 miles (160 km), or even 200 miles (320 km) depending on the type of tire."

    Now if you are in a situation where having the last word is a must have...fine.... I will certainly not reply to random text that has no substance. And let me be clear is perfectly fine to use posts to vent some frustration...what I am arguing is your 'reinterpretations of facts that are obvious enough ....to be even in a simple wikipedia description... Incidentally in the same wikipedia description the possible performance gains are briefly discussed.
    Take care and wish you only good things...
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I'm with Steve on this one.

    US FE standards and legal acts have little effect on non USA sold cars, yet the Germans get the same run flats and no-spare option that we are served up.

    Must not be too big of an issue to BMW... Their sales continue to set records each year.
  • srs_49srs_49 Member Posts: 1,394
    Must not be too big of an issue to BMW... Their sales continue to set records each year

    No question about that. Selling a lot to soccer moms and trophy wives who want to look good behind the wheel ;) . Those are the ones for whom the argument about "not having to worry about changing a flat on a dark country road" is targeted.

    A lot different than the driving enthusiast's market of 20 or 30 years ago.
  • badswingbadswing Member Posts: 5
    bmw definitely could care less. its their green mantra. what about the blowout on the dark country road and there is no spare? i would rather have the spare. what about when the tire light goes on when you have a 5 hour drive? and believe me the tire light goes on all the time. i guess one must forget about plans and get to a tire store that has run flats (and make sure you drive 50 mph and find a store within a 100 miles). trophy wives? how about because they are a great deal and maintenence is included. trophy wives? really?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Exactly ----"fear marketing". Works well, too.

    I'm waiting for an automaker to have a commercial for AWD with a zombie wielding a dagger behind the car as a hapless person tries to spin out of a ditch during a rainstorm.

    Volvo, Saab and Subaru have all sold a lot of cars in the past using this "danger" approach.

    Not that we don't all want "safe" cars, but of course in reality, no car is "safe"--some are just less dangerous than others.

    If RFT didn't suffer damage so easily I might feel differently but they seem vulnerable, just like regular tires, only in different ways.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    MB has also ad ads recently using the "danger" approach, with allegedly real drivers telling stories like " I didn't even the car stopped ahead, but luckily my Mercedes did....".
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Rememeber that Saab ad---"it gave its life for you"?

    Also, the guy who visits the junkyard and views his wrecked Subaru--it was just like he was going to visit his father's grave--lol!
  • kja2kja2 Member Posts: 1
    edited February 2012
    I replaced the stock Conti RFTs (run-flats) with Hancook GFTs (regular go-flats), and it was the best decision I ever made on this car. I just put my second set of GFTs on with no regrets in over 4 years of using normal tires. GFTs last 2x as long, are more comfortable, quieter, wear evenly, handle better and cost about half as much. As for potential flats, I carry 2 cans of Fix-a-Flat in the trunk, and a AAA card, but I've never had to use either. The tire shop I use started recommending this solution to their customers (even though they make 1/2 as much money selling regular tires) as customer satisfaction is much higher and they don't get upset customers returning to complain about the noisy tires, poor ride, and premature wear. As to the safety argument in defense of RFTs, this is just silly; what are you to do with a blow out, or hitting an object that destroys the tire? RFTs are not immune to these hazards and only work when a small nail or other minimal object pierces the tire, which can be simply fixed with a can of Fix-a-Flat to get to a tire shop. As to weight savings with no spare, RFTs weigh 5-8 lbs more per tire than a normal GFT (20-32 lbs total), so about the same as a spare and jack. The decision to use these horrible tires must be for space savings in the trunk by the vehicle manufacturer and a push by tire companies as they make so much more money on replacing RFTs (half the life, 2x the margin).
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Another in what seems to be a million mile long stream of opinions on RFT's .vs. GFTs.

    If you like what RFT's bring to the table, and don't mind the negatives, then run RFT's.

    On the other hand, if you don't like RFT's and prefer GFT's, the run GFT's.

    They both have their advantages.... and their disadvantages.

    I just wish BMW would allow for the carrying of a space-saver spare option, so we could finally move beyond this "tire" thing.

    What you have done seems to be working for you, and I'm happy for you. Others see a different value in running RFT's, and frankly, in their cases it also seems to be working for them.

    There is no "ONE" right answer, IMO...
  • boston303boston303 Member Posts: 35
    An "ACT" which might be called legislation, was passed to increase CAFE standards. Fuel economy. It did not say cars necessarily had to be lighter, smaller, wider, lower, nothing like that. ContinentaL and Bridgestone have been the major suppliers to date of run flat tires. Weight saved by losing a space saver spare tire is comical. The cons outweigh the pros on these tires to date. Damaging to the argument is the supposed internal email at BMW Finance stating that owners of leased Mini's returning the cars without the OEM run flats will no longer be penalized.. When does this fall through to BMW's? Always told the change was not possible or appropriate yet it's fine on a Mini? I think run flats at best should be an option for those wanting whatever they believe run flats provide (at a seriously increased price). Good luck to those drinking the coolaid. While BMW Finance distances itself from BMW, there is a message here.
  • boston303boston303 Member Posts: 35
    Who suggested these tires are part of a "green" strategy by BMW?? Seri0ously, let's send three times as many tire carcasses through the "Possibly" recycling system and even that is hard to consider as a "green" process.
  • boston303boston303 Member Posts: 35
    BMW has tried to pioneer and at some point if possible these German engineers should shift gears and offer a standard Go flat alternative. Mercedes sales are also way up without run flats.. Oh and don't look to that other small auto engineering company VW/Porsche/Audi...no run flats. BMW is a great company with good cars but these tires are simply flawed and the general consumer simply does not understand. Let's not forget Ford's issues with Firestone tires some years ago. It's not about how smart they were but how they reacted.
  • golfergirl1golfergirl1 Member Posts: 1
    I have an 06' 330i with run flats and though they are expensive, I haven't had any unusual problems with them at all. I ran over a nail on rear tires which had maybe 1/3 life left on them, so I just replaced both of them. BMW tire warranty which I paid around $600 bought one of the tires and I bought the other. I happened again with the front tires maybe a year later, and again the warranty picked up one tire and I bought the other. I I had 25,000 miles on the rear and close to 30,000 on the front. All in all, I would say buy the warranty! I do think the next time I need to replace, I might try conventional tires with nitrogen. If the ride can be improved, then I'm all over that! ;)
  • boston303boston303 Member Posts: 35
    edited April 2012
    Given the expense of the tires and the short mileage life, yes 25,000 is short life, the poor performance of the tires let's consider that these tires cost about 4X more than go flats. When was the last time someone had a flat? Last respondent actually had one with a run flat... Go figure. They ride uncomfortably, are noisy especially within 15-20K miles, yet the most impressive admission as to their quality and acceptance comes from BMW Financial which will now accept Mini's off lease with NO PENALTY if they no longer have run flats on the car... That says a lot and I am waiting for BMW to admit go flats can be installed on BMW's just as easily as they can on Mini's. Glad for insurance options that some may have opted for but still the tires are aweful. That someone thinks 25K miles is acceptable for a $400 plus tire (that is the high cost inflated for short mileage) simply shows how little one knows about tire performance and value. If I am paying that much I want serious G's capability.. That would be Ultimate... These tires may yet reach a point where they work but they are not anywhere close at this point. BMW should offer an option of choosing run flats or go flats at purchase.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited April 2012
    I don't know of any instance where BMW has told customers that GFT tires can't be installed on their vehicles...especially since M series cars come with GFT tires and a repair kit, but no spare.

    While I share your opinion that BMW should offer the option of GFT .vs. RFT at the time of purchase, along with the trunk space for a space-saver spare, I also recognize the potential positives the RFT tires provide in certain circumstances.

    A $400 tire on a $15,000 car is expensive.... Not so much on a $50,000 car. Both cars will get you to your destination, but some elect to pay the extra amount for the nicer car.

    For some, the negatives are outweighed by the capabilities RFTs provide... lower mileage, harsher ride, higher price.

    Others don't see any advantage to RFT's at all, even though they do allow your wife or young daughter to continue driving to a safe spot in a bad area late at night with a flat. Of course, that isn't applicable to everyone.

    That's why I would like to see tire type choice as an option.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    edited May 2012
    Your post is very inaccurate.
    1. The price is not $400, it is close to $250-$300 (at least for those I have - 225/45/17 and 255/40/17 from 328i w/ sports package. Now, more extreme low profiles (18" wheels, wider/larger sizes) likely will cost more.
    2. But so would same brand and model GFT. It is unfair to say that RFTs cost so much and compare that price to lower brand/model of GFTs - it is not apple to apple.
    3. 25K tread life is not function of RFT, it is function of ultra high performance summer. GFTs of that type last exactly the same. Just ask new owners of C-class or IS with similar sports packages - they get new tires at 20K as well. Nothing to do with run flat.
    4. I have owned a new 328i with RFTs (ContiSport 2 SSR) for six months not. I don't find them harsh, noisy, or any of those adjectives people throw in their descriptions. I fully expect them not to last for very long - that is their nature and if I got similar GFTs, they would not either.

    I'm under impression that many people simply decided to hate those RFT regardless of actual facts on the ground. They read those are evil incarnate, so nothing good can come from them. It is possible that those first RFTs were worse and indeed were harsher and noisier, but they are evolving. My only real complaint is lack of availability of all-season tires of that size (just one model from Bridgestone) and not enough brands/models overall and inability to repair them if losing all air. I believe if you have a slow leak and not let the air out, the tire can be repaired if the puncture is on tread wall.

    I also think the technology will evolve and improve, probably fairly soon.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • boston303boston303 Member Posts: 35
    I don't totally disagree run flats may at some time be viable. BMW should offer an option. For the money and the mileage life of the tires, I would suggest getting vastly better performance from GFT in terms of handling albeit I might not get much more mileage. However, I could get GFT's that substatially have longer life at lower cost. Now if I am driving an automatic transmission I shouldn't even be in this conversation as I would not know about handling on a bet. I would suggest you are quite wrong. Needless to say Mini owners have figured this out and BMW Finance agrees with them.

    I love this "For some, the negatives are outweighed by the capabilities RFTs provide... lower mileage, harsher ride, higher price. "

    Did I just lean into a left hook??

    Case seems well made.
  • boston303boston303 Member Posts: 35
    3. 25K tread life is not function of RFT, it is function of ultra high performance summer. GFTs of that type last exactly the same. Just ask new owners of C-class or IS with similar sports packages - they get new tires at 20K as well. Nothing to do with run flat

    Simply not true. These tires are hardly performance tires. I have been on the track and am a National SCCA champ. If I want grip I know where to go on My BMW and my Honda S2000 these tires fail in many ways. Tell me another German manufacturer who uses these tires? BMW VERY specifically says you cannot replace the tires with GFT's Sorry you may be misinformed.
  • boston303boston303 Member Posts: 35
    Daughter and Wife is a good sound bight. These are hardly high performance "summer" tires. They are billed as "Mud and snows" I expect more mileage from utilitarian tires which at best is what these can be called. When did you last have a flat?Last time I did I replaced the tire before AAA showed up which was very quick!

    Great discussion and I may get opinionated but hope not to be obnoxious!! Best
  • capriracercapriracer Member Posts: 907
    Dino,

    I'm afraid you are going to be attacked for this post. Some people just simply don't want to hear reasonable expanations. Everything you posted is correct, but it flies against the wind called "RFT are evil".

    Good luck.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,175
    When did you last have a flat?Last time I did I replaced the tire before AAA showed up which was very quick!


    It happened to me, just last Friday... I was down for about 20 minutes, and still made it to work on time (another 17 miles away).

    Of course, I have a spare... If I had runflats, instead of being at work, I would be on my way to a tire store (that likely wouldn't have my replacement in stock).

    To be fair, that's my first flat tire of this millenium, but I'm glad I have a spare (an option that BMW doesn't provide, along with the runflats).

    I don't think they are "evil", just the answer to a question that was never asked... ;)

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  • bbrammer1bbrammer1 Member Posts: 5
    Best solution I had for my RFT's is to get rid of the BMW. Best move I ever made. I did get 90% of what I paid for the car because I purchased it as a used CPO. It was a fun car, however, it was a joke when it came to the cost of tires, oil changes, alignment... Waste of money for what you get, after all, it's just a car, and a 3-series at that.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    edited May 2012
    .. now on my runflats.
    [ 2011 BMW 335iS ]
    If there had been an option of same size
    [ 18" ] gfts AND A SPARE, I would almost certainly
    have chosen that option.
    As it is, the rfts appear to have improved
    and the BMW suspension appears better
    tuned to the rfts - based on test drives
    of previous BMW 3s over the years.
    For me, the ride and the handling are fine,
    for my driving - never going to track the car.
    - Ray
    Satisfied ..... One data point.
    2022 X3 M40i
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    You ask, what other German brand puts RFTs. Of course none. I ask how long factory tires last on C350 or A4 with sports package? Answer - just about the same as 328/335 with sports package. Go to their boards or tirerack posts and read all those teary complains why, oh why do I have to get new tires at 20K-30K.

    You simply did not understand what I just wrote. All I'm saying SAME MODEL SAME BRAND GFTs perform about the same in terms of both grip and tread life. Now, in tire universe you can surely find something lasting longer with similar grip, but that's not the point - the point is about same universe.

    This is my third car with summer UHP tires. I owned Bridgestones, BF Goodrich, Yokohamas, Dunlops, all of them were GFTs (current Contis are my first RFTs), some were summer, some were all-season. The summer tires lasted 20K+, all-seasons lasted 30K+, no more than 40K. And all of them were quite noisy, some less, some more. I consider that a price of UHP tire - soft rubber gives a grip, but it wears and howls. It is possible that some manufacturers do a better job with mitigating that or achieving a better compromise. It is also fair to hypothesise that stiff walls of RFTs make such compromise much more difficult. What's not fair, is to say "I owned X model of Y brand on Z car and it was better than this one, so all RFT are just evil".

    Track use is what I call "specialty", where everything is focused on one thing - making shorter lap time. RFTs are not built for that and the manufacturers do not make claims they are. I would not use RFTs on track, either - makes no sense. You add weight and use something that has altered properties vs. technology that is proven. RFTs are specifically built so Joe/Jane Shmo consumer (i.e. me) gets a bit larger storage in the back and can drive a bit more. It's a result of German obsession with limiting waste (spare tires are just that in their view) and result of statistical analysis of costs to owners of one option vs. the other (No, I know, it may not work for you or even me, but they look at those differently).

    I never said I love those things - I'd rather have the GFT with spare, but BMW chose for me. I'm not exactly happy about it and it would be one thing I'd change in my new car, if I had such choice. What I'm against is demonizing things and making assertions by unfair comparisons, or using outdated evidence. All I know, my current 328 RFTs are not particularly harsh or noisy (though some surfaces do seem to bring the noise more than others), offer quite decent grip on my non-track driving and will probably wear early, just as GFT Dunlops did on my previous car (and those were much noisier). They are not perfect, but they are not evil incarnate.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • blueroadblueroad Member Posts: 10
    There is no conspiracy to cast RFT's as evil. Maybe they have improved. Maybe the suspension has been tweaked to reduce tread wear. The posts are anecdotal experiences and opinions.

    Our anecdote and opinion is that no one mentioned RFT's during the sales process. What was emphasized was an expectation of zero costs for 50k miles of driving. At 12k miles we had to strip the RFT's because of roaring road noise. The RFT's at the time seemed to be such a problematic, inferior product that we went to Michelin's and accepted the chances we might get stranded somewhere without a spare. What galled me was the marketing of a worry-free, free maintenance "ultimate driving experience" in the care of BMW that quickly became BMW blaming us for the problems with their product.

    It's a fun car. Mechanically well engineered. But as a total package, it was not well-engineered, and they laid the blame on the customer. BMW has lost us as repeat customers.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    That I can agree on. The "no maintenance, no worry, free, free, free" thing is, well perhaps not baloney, but to be diplomatic, an excaggeration. While the program does cover a lot of normal maintenance, it somehow "forgets" about wheel alignment, which is routine if you want to prevent uneven tire wear (yet, deemed as road hazard, so it's customer's responsibility). This is even more important on staggered tires, used on sports package.

    While I agree, one should not have expect that to be done every month, an allowance would be a proper thing to do, if you want that to be really "free". 12K is premature, but again, I have 7K and so far nowhere near "roaring noise". Will wait and see.

    I do like to have a discussion - people reporting noise or premature wear is fine. Having negative opinion is fine, too. I'm not smitten by the concept, either.

    All I want is fairness and correct comparisons, which for me is comparison to similar products. For example, to say touring GFT tires are "better" than performance RFT tires because of noise or wear, is unfair. However, if one takes RFT performance and swaps for a GFT performance and then gets 50K miles and drop of 3 decibels in the cabin (noise level cut in half), hats off. So far, I see no evidence of such to be happening.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

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