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Comments
It's also important to check your owner's manual for specific details on what method of tire rotation the vehicle's manufacturer recommends.
I have a the owners manual for every car that I've owned since my 1966 Plymouth Valiant 200 with the venerable 225 Slant Six engine. The only two manuals that I have that recommend "crossing" are the ones from cars that came from the factory with Bias Ply tires. Starting with the 1975 Pontiac LeMans, a front to back with no cross was recommended for the left side and a front to trunk to back rotation was recommended for the right side.
Every other car that I've had with Radial Ply tires, regardless of whether it was FWD, AWD or RWD has recommended a front to back rotation with no cross, except my two BMW which don't recommend a rotation at all.
Once again, the above is rather moot in this day and age when many tires are directional (geez, even my winter tires are directional) and crossing them would cause them to roll backwards.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I understand what you are saying regarding directional tires and different front and rear sizes. I am only trying to find an answer to rotating same size, non directional RFT Conti's. Crossover front to rear or not? Opinions differ, and since BMW recommends NOT rotating the tires at all, the plot thickens. At this point I am inclined to take your advice and go front to rear with no crossover, but there are many respondents to this board who disagree. Tirerack also disagrees as does Bridgestone.
As for what rotation is appropriate for a BMW, all of the folks that I know who opt to rotate their BMW tires, rotates front to back with no cross, and they get excellent service from their tires as I have from mine.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I also have never crossed tires during rotation since radials began as you have said.
Regards,
OW
By mid May of 1978 (less than 4 weeks later) I'd managed to get four speeding tickets. Since I still had the 318, I found a buyer for the 340 (I had folks lining up to buy the damn thing) and mounted the 318 in front of the 4-Speed. That combination worked very well right up to the point where the car was stolen and stripped in 1983.
Best Regards,
Shipo
You are my hero...did you ever see Vanishing Point? That was a 340 SC in the movie with Barry Newman. The movie was a cult flick and my brother and I loved it because the real star of the movie was the '70 Challenger which, IMO, was the best car of the Muscle Car decade!
You are truly the King!
Regards,
OW
Oh..., only twenty or thirty times. I'm thinking that the only movie that I've seen more times is Rocky Horror Picture Show. ^2
"...the '70 Challenger which, IMO, was the best car of the Muscle Car decade!"
Yeah, I have to agree with that too. In fact, I'm trying to figure out where I will garage a new 2009 Hemi Challenger. :shades:
Best Regards,
Shipo
"...the current recommendation for rotation includes "crossing"."
By whom? Under what circumstances? Please provide references or links.
Best Regards,
Shipo
...."
http://www.tiresafety.com/maintenance.asp
http://www.goodyeartires.com/faqs/Rotation.html
Next question, who should be believed, the vehicle manufacturer that recommends front to rear, no cross, or the tire manufacturer (Goodyear and Bridgestone in this case) that recommends a cross of non-directional tires?
It seems that since the dawn of radial tires, the pendulum has swung from a no-cross rotation to what is now a cross rotation for non-directional tires. I find myself wondering if said pendulum is going to swing back again as more and more, tires are being made that are directional. Look at it this way; my last BMW had directional tires from the factory, the winter tires that I bought for it were directional as well. The All-Season tires on both of our minivans are directional, the All-Season tires on my both my Mom's Toyota Corolla are directional as are both the summer tires and winter tires of Mrs. Shipo's Mom's Toyota Corolla (different year, same color). Said another way, of the last five cars and seven sets of tires that I've had to rotate, every one has directional tires. Is this a coincidence or a trend?
Best Regards,
Shipo
Four (4) Tire Rotation
* On front wheel drive cars, rotate the tires in a forward cross pattern (fig. A) or the alternative X pattern (fig.
* On rear wheel or four wheel drive vehicles, rotate the tires in a rearward cross pattern (fig. C) or the alternative X pattern (fig.
* If your car has directional wheels or tires, rotate them as shown in fig D.
* If your car has non-directional tires that are a different size from front to rear, rotate them as shown in fig. E.
I can't get it into the post but it's as Shipo recommends, front to back on each side.
OK, now let's see if you were paying attention. Just after the beloved star hits the dozer, there are a couple of frames that show the wreck. If you have a digital copy and run the frame-by-frame, the car that is crushed and in flames is NOT the star but a '67-'69' Camaro!! You can tell by the rear fender, which is partially blackened but there it is.
Regards,
OW
Even though a Challenger didn't drill itself into a dozer as depicted in the movie, IIRC, some five Challengers were destroyed during the filming of the movie.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I'll bet you a million dollars you didn't have a "1999 330i". So, what were you really driving back then?
Best Regards,
Shipo
I hope I am not the only one with this problem, it's total bs. :mad:
Good luck with your problem. If you really want to resolve it you have to be persistent.
I sent a one-line e-mail to my dealer and they changed my tires with 12,500 k on the tires. I believe they probably had a mileage limit and I just sqeeked by but they mentioned others had complained. My SR said the Bridgestone changed the rubber compound on the EL42's last July. That is why they are still on the new '07 3 series.
I have the Conti SSR's now and plan to rotate every 5K miles to make sure wear is even.
I had the same front inside wear as you have stated.
Regards,
OW
Thanks
One of the things we measured was road noise while cruising at 70mph. We did it when the car first came to us, and repeated the test after our one year and 25k miles came to an end.
New: 65.2 decibels
25k miles: 65.3 decibels
No change in noise, reasonable measured levels, and no unusual wear. Based on these results and what many of you have reported, the unusual wear/noise seems confined to the 17" all-season B/S EL42 tire.
Other tire-related results, measured by the same driver at the same test location:
Braking, new, from 60 mph: 112 feet
25k miles: 116 feet
Lateral grip, skidpad, new: 0.88g
25k miles: 0.89g
Slalom speed, new: 68.6 mph
25k miles: 69.1 mph
Say what you will about BMW RFTs, but our 18" B/S RE050a summer RFTs generated some impressive numbers. The differences are within what we would consider normal variation for tests conducted on different days.
But if we assume absolute repeatability, a dubious proposition, the directional trends of the admittedly small differences make some sense:
Slightly longer stopping distances are to be expected with our thinner brake pads and experienced rotors.
Higher skidpad and slalom times jive with worn tires having shorter tread blocks and less tread squirm.
Twitter: @Edmunds_Test
Thanks for the info. RE050a's seem to be a real good tire. Can I ask if you rotated the tires during your test and if you had any issue with pressure loss?
I do not think this model is available in all-season variety. Can you advise is you tested any vehicles with Continental SSR RFT's?
Regards,
OW
Can I ask if you rotated the tires during your test and if you had any issue with pressure loss?
The front and rear tires are different sizes, so only side to side rotation is possible. We took it in for service two or three times, but did not specifically request rotation, and it is not noted on either of the service tickets.
As for pressure loss, we had no trouble. But drivers are encouraged to check pressures around here, and they generally do. I have a real compressor at home, and use it when needed. But no, nothing chronic with our 330i.
I do not think this model is available in all-season variety. Can you advise is you tested any vehicles with Continental SSR RFT's?
Right, the RE050a 18" RFT tires are summer-only. I have no Conti RFT experience, 3-series or otherwise.
AS
Twitter: @Edmunds_Test
BMW Customer Satisfaction claims to have not received my first letter when I called them. They provided no satisfaction and when I suggested I replace these tires with conventional high speed Michelins, they advised against it as the suspension is tuned to run flats??!! Is that true? If that suspension is tuned, it is dissonant beyond belief! What are the alternatives? I am not worried about a flat. Will carry a can of Run Flat.
The use of data to review concerns is why I love this website so much. The B/S 18" RE050a summer RFTs proved to be a very good tire.
If I do get the 335i though, I will still seriously consider replacing these tires when they wear out with Michelin Pilot Sport PS/2 tires.
cbanct
Are they Quite?
How do they ride compared to the harshness of the Bridgestone EL42?
Are they Run Flat?
Whats the Conti Tire model number/name?
Owner6
current milege on the Conti procontact ssr rft's is about 700 miles now. Ride is noticably less intrusive than the el42's. handling performance excellent. contiprocontact ssr rft. 225/45/17 all 4 corners. (car has 13,500 miles now -'06 330xi)
Very Happy, so far....I will rotate front to back on each side at 5,000 mile increments.
I replaced my Bridgestone EL42's with Conti Pro Contact SSR Run Flats 9,000 miles ago. I am driving an '06 325i with 205/55R16's on all corners. They are just starting to exhibit a bit of noise but nothing like the EL42's. Dealer rotated them yesterday, front to rear, rear to front with no crossover. Noise level was the same after the rotation, as before. Again, I want to emphasis - a bit of noise. Nothing like the EL42's. The tires are wearing very well and very even. They still look new. They ride much better than the EL42's. Smoother and quieter with no sacrifice in handling. My only concern is "will the noise level increase?" Time will tell and I will keep all posted.
Any experience with Nitrogen...it appears ( at least in Canada ) that most are going to Nitrogen. My BMW dealer switched to Nitrogen this week and my Honda dealer 2 months ago.
I switched to Nitrogen on my wife's Accord today....will drive a few days and see if any difference in ride.
Everything written so far appears to be all positive.
Please comment.
Thanks and Regards,
Webby
Regards,
OW
Best Regards,
Shipo
The risk of under - inflation, which stresses tires by causing their sidewalls to flex more and the air temperature inside to rise.
I suppose in areas where the temp fluctuates a lot it makes sense to use Nitrogen.
Regards,
Webby
The first automobile to use air-filled tires was a race car built by André and Edouard Michelin in the early 1890s. More than a century later, the French company founded by the Michelin brothers is so identified with pneumatic tires that its mascot, Bibendum, is a man made of little else.
Now, after decades spent persuading the world to ride on air, the company has begun work on an innovation that could render the pneumatic tire obsolete. Engineers at Michelin's American technology center are working on what they call Tweel, a combined tire and wheel that would not go flat
because it contains no air.
link title
So glad I found this forum, I have a 06 330i (no sport package) bought in July 2005, have 17500 miles on it. Did notice some noise after a year, but didn't pay attention. Now the tire pressure monitor warning came on lately, sure enough the tire pressure is low, and I'm going to the dealer tomorrow. Any advice on dealing with the dealer or the tire manufactor? The SR at the dealer told me that RTF are fixable, but tire shop people told me otherwise? Has anybody successfully got replacment tire for free from the dealer or Bridgstone? Would getting non-RFT tires void my BMW warranty?
Thanks in advance!
David
However I need to start deciding what I can do in the interim. The Contie tires seem the answer however the last post response person only had 700 miles on them. Can everyone who switched to a replacement to the EL42 RFT please respond with your tire, make model, current miles and noise experience.
Owner6.
The treadwear on the el42 is 300 which means a rating on about 22,500 miles. If you drive like there is an egg under the accelerator, you could probably stretch it to 28 - 30K.
The conti's are rated at 400 tread wear or about 30 K. Typically performance tires do not have high tread life since they are made to stick better and thus wear more.
You might want to go with these and winter rft tires which will give you more winter traction and extend life to the fair weather tires.
Regards,
OW
Thanks for the info. Do you you have any visible cupping or signs of wear?
Regards,
OW
Zero Pressure™
Michelin Zero Pressure™ The tire that can survive without air.
Run flat tires for ultra high-performance vehicles have been around for years. But the real engineering feat was to develop a tire with run flat capability that fit on sedans and coupes. Always up for a challenge, Michelin developed the Zero Pressure™ tire. This unique system is designed to fit on cars like Mercedes, BMW, and Honda Accord. Even with a hole the size of a golf ball, the Zero Pressure™ tire will allow you to drive up to 50 miles at 55 mph. Never get stuck on the side of the road again.
Even the best car in the world can be a little better.
It's a fact. Any tire can be punctured. But if it happens when you're driving on the revolutionary new Michelin® Zero Pressure™ radials, you can keep on driving up to 50 miles at 55 mph. And the Low Tire Pressure Monitoring System alerts you to the problem before it's too late. You and your family stay in the security of your car, not by the side of the road waiting for help.
Backed for your satisfaction.
With Michelin Zero Pressure™ tires, Michelin not only enables you to drive to get service after air loss — we also let you drive away satisfied after getting that service, thanks to our exclusive "ZP Assurance Plan." If your tire becomes unserviceable during the first two years of service or before 50% of the tread is worn whichever comes first, Michelin will replace the tire FREE OF CHARGE. You'll find full details and conditions of the "ZP Assurance Plan" in your Michelin Zero Pressure™ tire owner's manual and limited warranty.
Features and benefits of Zero Pressure™ tires:
* Special crown modifications provide positive handling and vehicle control even during zero-pressure driving.
* Sidewall reinforcement of low hysteresis rubber provides self-supporting strength at zero-pressure, helps combat sidewall damage, and maintains cool temperatures to allow longer zero-pressure driving.
* Special bead design helps tires stay securely seated on conventional rims even at zero-pressure
* Tire pressure monitoring system informs driver of pressure loss to promote proper pressure maintenance and timely tire repair. System installation and use is mandatory; Michelin has approved several systems to give you a choice.
link title
However, the SR at dealer stated they changed rubber compounds last July for the EL42, no doubt from the feedback.
Regards,
OW
Got rid of that and am running my current 04 325xi with Continental Conti's M&S that came with the car. While they are overall pretty good, I still used the Blizzaks in the winter and went to the Goodyear ultra high performance F1 D3's in the summer and they are OUTSTANDING on wet and dry surfaces only.
Long story now getting short, lease is up next month and as much as I love the car, I will probably let it go off lease, primarily because I want a car with more than the standard 185hp the car came with. Plus the residual to buy it is too high as far as I am concerned.
In the meantime, I have had a chance (for normal maintenance and bad stater) to drive an 06 325i, an 07 328xi and an 04 330xi. All had steptonic tranny and no SP
The 04 also had the PP.
In any event I loved the 04 330xi the best out of all three cars. Best ride, best handling and best speed. It had GFT unlike the 06 & 07 which had the RFT.
I have been debating a long time about what to do about my next car. But after having read this blog's comments, I will not be buying/leasing a new one any time in the near future because of all the issues of the RFT. When I first heard they were going on the new E90, I had concerns about them for all the reasons in these posts. So I Have decided I will wait a few months before I do anything because of the RFT.
I can tell you this, I had a problem with the salesman who sold me my last one. He lied about important economic aspects of the deal the big one of which that BMW NA/USA had a lease pull ahead program and the last 3 payments on 01 would go away. Turns out there was no such program at corporate level and the dealer ended up eating my last 3 payments.
Well I was quite ticked about the whole mangled process, so I got on the internet and tracked down the names of about 8 of the top guys at BMWNA and wrote them all a three page letter about my experience with the dealer and cross copied everyone of them so no one could deny they received it.
That got their attention and they eventually got my dealer to pay the last 3 payments. And the sent me a bunch of BMW paraphenalia as a goodwill gesture on their part. But it didn't changed my signed lease any.
The point being while I think their service dept means well, ultimately if the dealer reaches his quoatas for the year, then you basically don't exist and there is nothing they can or will do about a problem you have but they won't admit to. The salesman who screwed me is now selling mortgages.
So I will not be leasing a new bimmer for a while anyhow until the RFT issue is resolved. I may just check out the 04 330xi I was driving to see of its availablity with GFT's. Engaging in a letter campaing can sometimes work.
As another example, I bought one of my son's a Disney theamed telephone (Micky Mouse) from Best Buy and the damn thing litteraly fell apart on my son with in about 3 weeks. I took it back to best buy to ge my money back and the manager told me she couldn't do that for a couple of reasons: One it had been purchased more than 30 days prior to when I brought it in, so they couldn't help in that regard. (It was a Christmas present bought in Nov They also accused my son of abuse. That was patently false and finally, I didnt' buy the extended warranty so I was out of luck 3 ways. I didnt'by their damn extended warranty which would have cost more than the phone. I don't expect it to die within 30 days. Just like AT hard drives completely fail after two year (i have had that happen 3 time to me already).
Well I found names of the 8 or so top company guys (not hard to find for a public company. You can find their 10Q and 10K filing with the SEC on the web which discloses this stuff) and wrote them a letter and cross copied to one and all.
With in a few days there a knock at my door. A Rep from Best Buy headquarters, stopped to give me a fruit basket along with a couple hunderd dollars of coupons and their sincerest apologies; They assured me they don's operate that way and as a gesture of good will, that was their token to keep me customer. Fact is I still shop there (mostly because they are the only game in town). The bad manager is still there however.
Conclusion, I don't see myself buying/leasing an 06 or 07 3 series until the RFT issue is resolved and two, squeeky wheels somtimes do get the grease. I would love to see the number of return customers that didn't come back because of the RFT and BMW or the dealer to fix it.
Hope this little insight helps.
Thanks for any feedback.