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BMW 3-Series Run Flat Tires

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Comments

  • nkeennkeen Member Posts: 313
    I was going to buy the 325i with std suspension but the salesman insisted: "You need to drive the sport suspension again." We took a longer drive that time, tossing the car along twisting country roads. I was sold. If you live in the snow belt and can handle the winter tire swap, give it serious consideration. On smoother southern roads, I couldn't imagine going any other way.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I have seen the EL42 Bridgestones on the '07 328i. The dealer said that Bridgestone changed the rubber compound in July to mitigate the problem on the delivered '06 cars. I had a noise problem and they changed my tires at 12K miles to Continental Contact Pro SSR tires.

    The feedback on the Conti's is good so far. Hope this helps.

    Regards,
    OW
  • suj1suj1 Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for the feedback.
    What kind of mileage can I expect out of the Continental Contact Pro SSR tires? Does anybody know if non-RFTs are used if that voids any warranty by BMW.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Using normal tires does not impact your warranty in any way.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Blue,

    Are you real sure about the warranty with GFT's?
  • waiwai Member Posts: 325
    I have put Exalto A/S on my wife's Taurus Wagon, it handles pretty well if you don't drive too aggressively. If you full throttle from the start, the tires will lose traction a little bit. My friend's BMW 528 after put it on said its pretty good for her wife's driving style.
    There is better tires than this one eg. Pireli's Pzero Nero M/S. this one also has a RF version.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    As long as you put the correctly sized tires on the car, BMW can't possibly deny your claim. If getting non-oem tires allowed BMW (or any manu) to deny warranty claims then customers would be held hostage to the brand and style placed on the car at time of purchase. Hell, tire companies would line up to be THE OEM of choice for expensive models as that would guarantee 2-4 years of sales to that manufacturer's clients.

    Ever looked at your sales sticker? do you see any notation about the precise brand and model of tire on your car? No. They can't even prove if the car was delivered to you with GFTs, let alone Bridgestones or Contis.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Blue, you are correct. Thanks.

    I checked the warranty and no wording in there voids it based on tire choice. The manual has recommendation of rft's but no wording about any voiding if GFT are used.

    Regards,
    OW
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Hell, tire companies would line up to be THE OEM of choice for expensive models as that would guarantee 2-4 years of sales to that manufacturer's clients."

    Check out the Honda Odyssey Touring. All "Touring" models come with the Michelin PAX system, and the only place where you can have them repaired or replaced is either at a Honda dealership or an authorized Michelin dealer. Yikes! :P

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • webby1webby1 Member Posts: 209
    My dealer indicated that it will void the warranty...one of many reasons I am keeping my 2004 330I.
    Regards,
    Webby
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    True, true. I was just told about the pax thanksgiving weekend. I imagine some company could come out with their own line, couldn't they?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Ask him how he can prove which tires came on the car and how GFTs perform in a manner that hurts the car. He can't definitively prove a BMW dealer sold you a 3 series with run flats. It's impossible.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Your dealer needs to read up on federal regulations regarding warranties.
  • webby1webby1 Member Posts: 209
    You mean federal as USA, Canada or the other countries ?
    Regards,
    Webby
  • webby1webby1 Member Posts: 209
    My info came from sales a while ago.
    Talked to service mgr today and could not get a definite answer.
    It was suggested to check with BMW Canada.
    It appears that the argument they are using...if you get into accident and were not using RFT there maybe liability and other issues.
    Will follow up with BMW Canada.
    Regards,
    Webby
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    So if a dealer puts chrome 22s on your 3 series and you get into an accident who is at fault?
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    according to the dealer, you are unless these wheels have run-flats.
  • webby1webby1 Member Posts: 209
    If you have a blowout driving at high speeds and you kill someone because you lost control....BMW claims that this could have been prevented if you used original RFT which came with the car and were designed to prevent such scenario ?

    Regards,
    Webby
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    BMWs have been equipped with GFTs for years, including in Europe where speeds of 150 mph and higher are routine. Even still, I've never heard of one suffering a blowout and losing control. Said another way, at the tame speeds that we drive here in North America, losing control from a blowout ain't gonna happen.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • actualsizeactualsize Member Posts: 451
    People put aftermarket wheels and tires on their cars all the time. My BS detector goes off loud and clear when I here the old "warranty will be void" line.

    I'm sure SEMA, (www.sema.org) the aftermarket equipment manufacturer's association and lobbying group, can tell us what the legal implications really are here.

    Hmmm. Sounds like an idea for an interview and story...

    Twitter: @Edmunds_Test

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The "Dealers" might be trumpeting the void BS but nowhere can I find a definitive statement that non-rft's void the warranty that came with my '06. Implied, perhaps, but I am no mouth-piece.

    Besides, I know of know damage that would occur to the suspension using the same size as stock GFT's to replace the rft's.

    The only reason I kept the rft's on my car was because I got a free set when I complained. The performance is decent on civilian roads but it's a no-brainer the GFT's offer much more performance at a better price.

    I was considering the same tact as blueguydotcom went for and storing the original rft/rims in the rafters until my lease is up and sending them back where they came from when I brought the car back. Now I should be able to go the distance with the Conti's.

    Regards,
    OW
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Why would bmw get involved with any crash of any car?

    Furthermore, RFTs can rip apart. Whomever told you that RFTs can not fall apart - misled you. RFTs are still rubber and still susceptible to poor manufacturing and/or random errors. Furthermore if you're using speed rated tires and they're properly inflated you're gonna have an issue with the manufacturer of the tire, not BMW.

    Why are people bringing up manufacturers in relation to crashes? Or even blowouts? Are these common things or are you talking about 1 and a million sort of events - you know like worrying about dying from a terrorist?
  • owner6owner6 Member Posts: 89
    You mean like the twin towers/911, or the pentagon, PA corn field, the Cole, Cobar Towers, or the Marines in Lebonon?

    Slim chance ??

    Owner6
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Not the place.

    Do some research, because you stand a much better chance of getting hit by lightning.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,495
    Not the place.

    Amen.

    And Merry Christmas!
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Here is an excerpt from an article describing a new aging standard for tires next year:

    Tire durability has been a matter of intense scrutiny since the widespread failures of Firestone tires on Ford Explorers that came to light in 2000.

    The widely-publicized tire recalls in 2000 and 2001 were sparked by a spate of rollover accidents that killed an estimated 270 people. Ford spent $3 billion replacing Firestone tires.

    In February, Ford officials met with NHTSA to discuss the tire aging issuing. Ford collected 2,500 older tires from six cities -- Detroit, Los Angeles, Miami, Denver, Hartford and Phoenix -- for the study.

    Ford said its proposed test simulates six years of driving in a hot climate -- eight weeks at 149 degrees in a tank of 50 percent oxygen and 50 percent nitrogen -- to simulate the effect on long-term exposure of oxygen.

    "Tires begin to show a noticeable change after about six years," Ford spokesman Dan Jarvis said.

    Still to be determined is whether tires have an expiration date. BMW, Ford, DaimlerChrysler, Toyota and Volkswagen AG have backed guidelines that tires should only be in service six years.

    Safety advocates have urged NHTSA to set tire expiration dates -- and NHTSA is yet to rule on those. Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategies, submitted details Wednesday of 108 accidents linked to tread separation of tires more than 6 years old that resulted in 85 deaths.

    I never go past 3 years/30K miles with tires...life is more important. The tire composition breaks down over time and affects the ride and handling dynamics. You loose some time before you actually get the new tires on the car so factor that in. Most tires are also subject to changing pressure/teperature and over time, lead to a varying degree of "aging".

    Regards,
    OW
  • utahjakeutahjake Member Posts: 20
    I bought my third BMW, a 330xi, in Feb 2006. At 15,000 miles, the tires were loud, bumpy, slippery in rain, poor in cornering and a very rough ride. The dealer told me it was an alignment problem and charged me $203 to "fix" the problem. It got worse. I began to research the issue and found the thousands of posts in various car forums on the net from owners with this same problem. I was told by BMW mechanics, service technicians, Firestone dealers and others in the automobile field that they would NEVER have run flats on their car. I replaced the tires with Turanza LS-Z, a non run flat. Car began to handle like my other BMWs. Now, though, no spare and no room for a spare. I contacted CEO of BMW of North America and Board of Management in Munich. Zero response. Through customer service contact at corporate office, dealer was required to pay for my new tires and reimburse me for bogus alignment. Still didn't resolve the issue of no spare and no room for a spare. Last week, I traded it off for a 2007 Audi A4. These cars are definitely not holding a decent resale value but it was worth the financial hit to be in a safe car. The Audi is a fantastic car - handles better than the BMW and better equipped for less money. BMW made a horrendous error in equiping the cars with run flats. Obviously from the lack of response from CEO and Munich, customer service is not important to them either. I will never own another BMW.
  • bryncerddbryncerdd Member Posts: 29
    Considering all the negative commentary on this and other web- sites concerning RFTs, one wonders what it will take to convince BMW they made a marketing error with these tires. I did not replace my lovely but aging MY 2000 328 with another Bimmer 3 series because of the RFTs. BMW sales seem to be holding strong, but one wonders how much of that is the cache of the name. Disappointing, to say the least.

    Bryncerdd
  • colsgabmwcolsgabmw Member Posts: 1
    My tires went bad after 15,000 miles. One of the tires actually went flat with no holes, etc. in it. The dealership offered to replace the tire free of charge but never followed through. These tires are awful and the terrible thing is that they are hard to replace...no one sells them. I could not find the tire in stock anywhere...it was even on back order at BMW. I hate that I purchased this car...feels like I am riding in a pick-up truck. :mad:
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Please complain to the dealer and demand replacements, but NOT the EL42 Bridgestones. Tell them that you want the Continental Run Flat tires. Do not accept any BS. Stand firm and tell the dealer you will add your complaint to BMWNA and the Better Business Bureau. Tell them if you have a tire failure you will sue them up the wazu and that you are handing your case over to your lawyer if they decline.

    Regards,
    OW
  • wzhao68wzhao68 Member Posts: 15
    Here is my experience:
    I went to my dealer, and told them my left rear tire has been slowly losing air, they told they don't fix tires straight out. but told me I can go to discounted tires to get it fixed, and assured me that it's fixable. So I went to "the discounted tires" store, left the car there, it was fixed (plugged) in the afternoon, no charge.

    David
  • nkeennkeen Member Posts: 313
    re BMWs have been equipped with GFTs for years, including in Europe where speeds of 150 mph and higher are routine. Even still, I've never heard of one suffering a blowout and losing control. Said another way, at the tame speeds that we drive here in North America, losing control from a blowout ain't gonna happen.

    I'm not seeing a lot of grumbles about the BMWs RFTs, in articles or in posts, from across the pond.

    Having had a front tire blow out on an Olds Toronado at 70 several years ago, I do have a concern. Admittedly a front-heavy beast of a car, but barely controllable as I made my way to the shoulder on an LA freeway. I'm sure that a blow-out in my 325i would not render anything like such severe instability problems, but at interstate speeds, I'd rather not have one. RFTs are no guarantee against high speed disintegration, they're heavy and they do give a stiffer ride. But I think the RE050As are great, and so far so good with the LM22s also. One thing for sure -- they're not going away. Now the EL42s, runflat or no, appear to be a different matter.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The EL42's that have been the issue in the last year are not sold in Europe. I had some issues with one and have it off the rim. It has 5K miles on it when I got a flat that a Goodyear dealer fixed with a plug. The sidewall construction on this tire is very strong. When I had zero pressure in it, I drove it 100 miles before I checked it because when the warning light went off, it looked OK!

    The point I am trying to make is that unless a very unusual road hazard is hit, a standard loss of all pressure will not result in a GFT-like "blow-out". I purchased a new tire, but thinking back, the plug would have lasted.

    Just a note, BMW recommends replacement after a damaged RFT.

    Regards,
    OW
  • nkeennkeen Member Posts: 313
    Just a note, BMW recommends replacement after a damaged RFT.

    My understanding of the replacement issue: Under normal operation, air pressure bears most of the weight of the car. Air pressure, with a little help from the sidewall, takes up any impact resistance.

    If the RFT is driven without air, the sidewall is supporting the entire weight of the car and full impact absorption. The tire can quickly be stressed to the point of damage that is not visible due to the rigid sidewall but may later cause structural failure. I would bite the bullet and replace it if one of mine got a "flat".
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    "If the RFT is driven without air, the sidewall is supporting the entire weight of the car and full impact absorption. The tire can quickly be stressed to the point of damage that is not visible due to the rigid sidewall but may later cause structural failure. I would bite the bullet and replace it if one of mine got a "flat"."

    You are completely correct and the reason I went with new after the flat. Better safe than sorry.

    Regards,
    OW
  • mtmoranmtmoran Member Posts: 1
    New guy here...a few weeks ago, I bought a 335 sedan (manual, with sport package). It entered production on 12/22, and I'll take delivery in five weeks or so. I just love the way that car drove. I admit I'm guilty of doing research after making my buying decision, but after becoming aware of possible issues with RFTs, here's my question: should I tell the dealer that I want (or don't want) any particular make of RFT installed on this car when it is delivered? I'm not sure if I have any choice, but I thought it would be good to get input from the knowledgeable folks on this board before I talk to the dealer. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
  • rflrfl Member Posts: 100
    Car will PROBABLY come in with Continental RFT's on it. If so, you are ok. If the car comes in with Bridgestone tires, especially EL-42 RFTs....REFUSE DELIVERY. REPEAT, REFUSE DELIVERY. You will have nothing but heartache with them and the dealer may or may not help you out. BMW NA will probably not help you. Take the time before your car comes in and read this entire thread...people are threatening class action suits, etc. NOBODY LIKES THE BRIDGESTONE TIRES. WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT AND I CANNOT EMPHASIZE THAT ENOUGH, DO NOT ACCEPT THE CAR WITH BRIDGESTONE TURANZA EL-42 RFT TIRES. Good luck. (PS...you cannot get the car with regular tires unless YOU replace them in the aftermarket...the car comes without a spare so you really need to have the RFT's) I had the Bridgestone tires and my dealer replaced them for me at no charge. I am now a relatively happy camper...but I will NEVER buy another car with RFT's and no spare.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    One thing to keep in mind when folks caution you about the Bridgestone RFTs, virtually all of the problems reported so far have been from cars that DID NOT have a true SP (i.e. non-SP "i" cars and all "xi" cars regardless of SP or not). The only complaints that I've heard from the SP owners, per-se, revolve around a hard ride and reduced compliance when handling at the limit on anything but glass smooth roads.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I believe the cupping could develop from non-sp suspension. That was one of the issues reported which sounded like a helicopter.

    The other point regarding the EL42 is that my BMW dealer rep reported the rubber compound was changed in July '06. How that affects the performance is yet to be reported.

    I took a ride to my local dealer and there were about 20 3-series '07's. Most had Continentals but some had the EL42 tires.

    Regards,
    OW
  • nkeennkeen Member Posts: 313
    Your car will probably have Bridgestone RE050As on 18" rims. These are excellent summer only performance tires (my 325i with ZSP has similar on 17" rims). They are low profile tires, and you don't get much impact suppression with such a short reinforced sidewall. The plus side is that they stick, are quiet and handle predictably. Don't worry about all season EL42s -- they're not an issue with the non-4WD sport package. But do figure on a winter changeover (I've done LM22 Blizzaks on 16" rims, planning late Nov and March switch) if you live in northern climes. I've heard that the summer tires are positively evil on snow.

    Although I love my 325i, I must say the robust torque of the 335i makes it a very attractive proposition. Please post to 2006+ with some observations when you've had some experience with yours.
  • lipplipp Member Posts: 58
    So you're looking for advice. First off read the messages on this forum. You will learn a lot. Not only will you learn of all the RFT problems, but you may find yourself questioning your recent decision to purchase a BMW. Frankly, the car is overrated and BMWNA is the least customer oriented company in the auto industry. If you have a problem you will get nothing but a "run around" from BMWNA. My last BMW, a 2006 325I, is just that....my last BMW. I just can't deal with a company that does not stand behind their product.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Uh, no the downside of the RE50s in 18s is that they bounce and don't stick unless the pavement is glass smooth. lousy, lousy tires.
  • nkeennkeen Member Posts: 313
    Can primarily speak to the 17s. They're stiff but I feel I can toss the car with them. Perhaps we should broaden the discussion to the merits of low profile tires -- what's optimal. Your comment makes me wonder again whether the 328i with ZSP might not be the best 2007 all-rounder. Impact absorption with 16" 55 series LM22 RFTs I have now is considerably better than with the 17" RE050s. I can imagine a similar difference between 17 and 18 inchers. I did test a 330i with ZSP twice and was OK with the ride and compliance when driven reasonably hard on country two lanes.

    What pressures were you running on the RE050s when you had them on your 330? How did you like them on the autobahnen and autostrade? Wondered because they seem to settle down nicely at higher speeds. Re pressures, I'm at 33/41 on the winters and plan to set the summers to 29/33 when they go on again (per manual for less than full load).
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Used the specs as anything lower and the tires made the ride extremely jarring. Much over and the car became quite floaty and light.

    On smooth roads - like the Autobahn - the tires felt fine. In cities in europe and back in the USA where very few roads are even decent, the wheel hop/skip was plainly evident. On backroads the jumpiness of the tires made for some interesting driving.

    Dan Edmunds blog about the 330i driving with RFTs and normal tires was right on the money regarding how much more predictable the car feels with normal tires.
  • nkeennkeen Member Posts: 313
    Thanks. If you get a chance for an extended drive in a 328 with 17" RE050s I'd be interested in your thoughts. Re jumpiness, with mine, you certainly have to stay on top of the wheel, with camber changes and asphalt channels created by heavy trucks tending to take the car with them. The steering is very lively, or "alive" depending on your perspective -- much less so with the LM22s which make it feel more directionally stable but sluggish around center by comparison.

    I previously had an Acura TL with GFT EL42s. That car went back to the dealer repeatedly for asymmetric steering effort problems (not torque steer) and pulling tendencies which may or may not have been caused by the tires. I got rid of the car after 18 months -- couldn't stand it.
  • nskbklynnskbklyn Member Posts: 1
    I have 2006 330i with 30k miles. At about 20K I fired the Run Flat s. After three flat and no local dealer carries the tire (including my local BMW shop) and at 300 a pop I went to conventional tires (General Exclaim UHP). The Generals are not only sticker but much quiter and 1/3 the price. The ride was so much improved that my wife thought that I had had the suspension adjusted, no more jarring, banging or harsh trips accross expansion joints.

    I was a motorcycle road racer and know a little bit about traction and handling run Flats suck.
    The tires push early and release suddenly taking a very neutral handling car and making it much worse than it in fact is. With the new Generals on the car I took it around the NHIS motorcycle road course faster than ten present of the bikes, it is a great car saddled with tires whose time has not yet come. I hope that BMW get it right and makes Run Flats an option not the rule.
  • tomboy410tomboy410 Member Posts: 3
    I am thinking of buying a 335 (with the sport package) and taking delivery in Munich with a drop-off in Frankfurt. Does anyone know which tires are apt to be put on a car delivered in Munich and destined for California? Does anyone have interesting/helpful information or experiences re Munich delivery? I've read the last 30 pages of posts and am aware of the issues re the tires.
  • ckh19ckh19 Member Posts: 9
    I have a 2006 330xi with these terrible tires - as noted by everyone, the impact/ride harshness is unbearable. I have less than 4,000 miles on the car and the dashboard is already rattling because of how harsh the car rides. Highway expansion joints can cause the car to shudder. Are other RFTs better? If so, which ones? Also, I'm thinking of replacing these with regular tires but not sure if the OEM rims designed for RFTs would cause problems with mounting. Also, would this cause problems with the tire pressure monitoring system or factory warranty? I know I would have to deal with not having spare - thinking of using a tire sealant/compressor combo - good or bad idea?

    As a BMW loyalist for years, the decision to force buyers to RFTs without a spare option may lose me for good. The ride & handling vs safety tradeoff is not worth it in my mind.
  • tomboy410tomboy410 Member Posts: 3
    What do you do if you have a flat?
  • nkeennkeen Member Posts: 313
    tomboy410: re: What do you do if you have a flat?

    Either use a fix kit to inflate the bad tire with a foam compound or sit by the side of the road and wait. I understand that with the fix kit is that the gunk must be carefully removed before tire replacement in order to avoid corroding the rim.

    Notwithstanding the dire warnings on this board about the runflats, there are a few of us at least who are impressed by their performance and the underlying design philosophy, as are most of the European motoring press. So give them a try and then decide. The EL42s receive a lot of complaints, but for one, I like the RE050, which your car will probably have if it is equipped with ZSP. The main issue you may have is with the 18" low profile setup on the 335i -- short stiff sidewall. I do not think runflats are going away.

    I see that the Rolls-Royce Phantom and Mini, BMW owned but with very different design and ride philosophies, are also using runflats. Just read a post by someone who said he had ruined the handling of his Mini by removing his. The tire design is built into the suspension calibration.

    I'm clearly in the minority on this board, but that's my two cents.

    Regards, NK
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