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Hyundai Azera vs Toyota Avalon vs Ford Taurus vs Chevrolet Impala

motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
edited May 2014 in Chevrolet
This is my attempt to set up a comparo between four full size sedans. So let the discussion begin. Does anybody think the new Azera can be a competitior to the Avalon. I think they match up quite evenly in terms of performance but the Hyundai has a lower price and a better warranty. The 500 is a decent car but the engine just doesn't cut it in a 3800lb car.
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Comments

  • andy82471andy82471 Member Posts: 120
    I think the Impala SS is the best bargain of the four. With GM red tag sale going on you could probably get the SS at 25 grand which makes it a very sweet deal. I only thing I don't like is the FWD setup. No V8 cars should have FWD :mad:
  • andy82471andy82471 Member Posts: 120
    Just sucks. The worst full size car out there. Noisy and underpowered.
  • finfin Member Posts: 594
    Underpowered to be sure... needs about 75 more horses and some torque to keep up with the competition. Cheap wire antennae for the radio is rediculous. No place for your left foot when driving either... real tight for some reason. Nice trunk size.

    It is a good looking car, IMHO. But a little short in some critical areas compared to the Avalon.
  • alan_salan_s Member Posts: 362
    I really liked the 500 in every respect until I drove it. Where is the engine, and what is that unholy racket coming from under the hood?
    Ford announced that the 500 wasn't selling because the public doesn't like the grill, so they are changing it!
    How can they miss the point? How could they do all the market research, spend billions on R&D and the manufacturing of an all-new, extremely nice car but forget about the engine? Didn't they drive the competitors? This amazes me. They could have at least installed the Lincoln, Mazda or Jaguar version of the Duratech or better still, offered a V8 as an option.
    This is why they are losing money.
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    The 500 needs at least 250 Hp to be even remotely competitive. Ford really dropped the ball on this one IMO. It is frustrating that the domestics refused to learn their lessons even after one setback after another. While the Impala SS is a nice sedan with class leading power, I don't understand GM's love affair with pushrod engine and 4 speed automatic. This is 2005 not 1955 for heaven's sake.
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    Impala SS is that they didn't follow Chrysler's lead on the 300, and go to RWD. A RWD, 303hp Impala SS would be awesome. In addition, the Crown Vic should have been killed, and a V8 and RWD given to the Ford 500.

    And not to veer off topic, but their is an article in Autoweek where a tester comments that the V6 Charger is actually a fun car to drive because of the RWD factor. He points out that the V6 would just be so so in FWD, but is actually a pretty fun car with the RWD set up. Point being, that the V6 Impala, with a different tranny might even be a decent performer were it RWD.
  • alan_salan_s Member Posts: 362
    I tend to prefer FWD. More stable in the rain and certainly far, far better in the snow and ice where there is no substitute for weight directly over the driving wheels.
  • killerpiecekillerpiece Member Posts: 56
    Please.....
    I drove a V6 charger and it was a dog (ruff ruff) no fun to drive at all! :lemon:

    That combined with a REALLY cheap interior, I wouldn't spend my money on one.... NO WAY!

    And for Autoweek's review, they love almost everything!

    As for the HEMI... Now that was fun! :P The interior was still bad though.

    sorry to be off-topic.... :(

    killerpiece
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    If Hyuandai can price the car right, I think it can win over a lot of potential Avalon buyers. If the Azera tops out at say 28G's fully loaded than this car would be a bargain. But some people will never consider a Hyundai because it is a Hyundai.
  • alan_salan_s Member Posts: 362
    Having had the '05 Avalon for 4 months now, I can say that the quality is down vs the previous models and both the Toyota dealers and Toyota Corporate have a bad attitude when you have a problem.
    Now that legendary Toyota quality and customer care has been banished to the history books and the Avalon has moved away from it's roots as a smooth, quiet, soft-riding luxomobile in favor of a more sporting pseudo-euromobile, this leaves the DOOR WIDE OPEN FOR THE AZERA.
    I certainly will take a long and hard look at the Azera when my Avalon lease is up, and if the Azera has a quality track record, I'll be a convert.
  • deminindeminin Member Posts: 214
    When we shopped for a new car a couple of months ago, price was not the primary concern...we wanted to get maximum value for our car dollars. We looked at the Toyota Avalon, the Ford 500, the Buick Lacrosse CSX, the Chrysler 300, Nissan Maxima and the Lincoln LS. We did not check into Hyundia, because the nearest dealer is over 110 miles away. While shopping at the GM dealer (Buick Lacrosse), we spotted a nice light blue car across the lot. It was a 2006 Impala LTZ. After being underwhelmed by the Buick, we took a closer look at the Impala and took a test drive. After 15 minutes in the car, the only question was how big a check would we have to write. This LTZ compares real favorably to cars costing thousands more, and is a dream to drive. Gobs of power, great suspension, quite good fuel mileage, and excellent fit and finish. While all the cars we looked at had good points, and some bad, this package, in my opinion offers more car for the dollar than anything else we tested. After a couple of months, I am still convinced that we spent our money wisely. We also drove a new SS after the LTZ, but came right back to the LTZ because it has a far nicer interior, and hardly any of the torque steer that can make the SS almost dangerous for a pair of old farts like us.
    I agree with the posts about the 500 power, and the Avalon was not at all impressive...rather ugly, in my opinion. The closest comparison to the Impala LTZ seemed to be the Nissan Maxima, but I don't think the Maxima is worth $5,000 more. We liked the Lincoln LS, but again..there is not $15,000 more value in the LS. The only Chrysler that got our interest was the 300C(hemi), but outside of the sweet engine, there is not much we liked....horrible driving position for shorter people. The only problem I have with the LTZ, so far, is keeping the speed down. It is so smooth and quiet, and the engine revs so smoothly, that I have found myself cruising at 80MPH on a couple of occasions. Guess I'm going to have to start using the cruise control. Oh, BTW, the Bose radio in the car is one of the best car radios I've ever heard. Sorry to sound like a Chevy commercial, but this thing is impressive.
  • bwiabwia Member Posts: 2,913
    Sorry to sound like a Chevy commercial, but this thing is impressive

    Deminin, did you also get the employee discount? I am glad you like the car but maybe a couple of years down the road you can trade it in on an Azera Limited.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    Sounds a lot to me like few of you (if any) have actually DRIVEN the Five Hundred. Especially with the CVT.

    Doesn't feel underpowered to me.

    And just like I could in my 1996 Taurus wagon, I can STILL out-accelerate 98% of the Corvette drivers on the road. :P
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    That's pretty funny.

    P.S. my '05 Sonata will blow the doors off a Viper too! :P
  • deminindeminin Member Posts: 214
    There was no employee discount on the 2006's...only a $1000 rebate. We got a good price for our trade-in, and since we were paying cash, I just wrote out a check for the amount I thought the deal should be for. At first the dealer balked, but when we got ready to leave, and said we would think about it, they changed their tune. I guess they figured that a bird in hand....etc. At any rate, I think we got a fair price, and I'm sure they made some money...they can stick it to the next one who buys a gas guzzler SUV.
    BTW, we drove it about 600 miles this week to visit the kids in the city for Thanksgiving. It did great, and averaged 26.3 MPG going up...60 to 65 MPH. Coming back, we took the Interstate, and I ran it between 80 and 85 most of the way, and the mileage dropped to 24.2. We had fairly stiff side winds but the car handled quite good. The only time I felt any "wobble" was when passing a big truck at speed...there would be a slight sideways shift as I would clear the truck, and get back into "clean" air, but it was quite manageable.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    "P.S. my '05 Sonata will blow the doors off a Viper too!"

    Depends on who's driving the Viper. Odds are, you'd probably win if you were trying to.

    98% of people who buy "sports cars" don't really utilize the power very often, and can be routinely beaten by those with lesser vehicles.

    If everybody out there had 3.5L 250hp engines and were using them to their full ability most of the time, then perhaps I'd feel underpowered. But as it stands, I can pretty much get around anybody on the road without making the engine sound like it's going to explode.

    Now a Taurus with the non-Duratech 3.0L V6 (150 hp, I think?) . . . now THAT starts to feel underpowered. And then there's my wife's old '79 Mustang with the 4-banger in it. That was downright SCARY to merge into freeway traffic with.
  • gteegtee Member Posts: 179
    And just like I could in my 1996 Taurus wagon, I can STILL out-accelerate 98% of the Corvette drivers on the road.

    I think that you miss spelled a word. Don't you mean 98% of Chevette drivers on the road.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    Nope, I meant Corvette.

    But then I beat 98% of all drivers on the road, when I'm in the mood to do so.

    It's about the driver's will, not the car's ability.

    The other 2%? They're just being unsafe. :P
  • andy82471andy82471 Member Posts: 120
    While the Impala is a nice car, I wonder why GM is in love with ancient pushrod technology. This is 2005 not 1955. I think GM is selling themselves short by offering this somewhat antiquated powertrain. I know pushrod is cheaper to develop than DOHC but in 2005 OHV engine just doesn't cut it.
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Member Posts: 468
    The 500 is much more comfortable than the Impala both front and rear, but could use more ponies if you are a very aggressive driver. The AWD option is a winner in the 500-Montego for the snow belt. And there is nothing wrong with pushrod engines. They cost less, weigh less, take less room, and in the most recent versions provide competitive mileage and performance. They aren't as sewing machine smooth as the Honda engines. Too many people have fixed ideas.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    I moved from an Elantra to a 3.5 liter Malibu Maxx. Although slightly rougher, the 'Bu has:

    1. almost as good mpg
    2. far lower maintenance, no timing belt to screw with.
    3. lighter weight than a corresponding ohc engine-- smaller physical size too.
    4. A loafing engine that can get 6000-8000 miles on an oil change (it's not cranking that fast).
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    Most modern DOHC engine these days have 5 or 6 speed automatics and not 4 like most of GM's current pushrod powered V6s and V8s. The Avalon turns about 1800 to 1900 rpm at 60 mph. I don't know about the Impala but I doubt it would be less than that. With VVti, most modern OHC engine also has good low end power too which most OHV supporters use as a bragging rights. Plus the 268 HP Avalon is rated at 31 mpg on the highway whereas the Impala LTZ with nearly 30 less HP is only rated at 27 mpg.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    The 3.9L engine does have VVT, so its not really that far behind in technology. It produces 240+ horses, has plenty of low-end torque, is light, and cheap to build and maintain. Overall, I think its a good engine for the Impala.

    Would I prefer the Avalon's 3.5? SURE! But in effort to keep costs down and reinvest a bit in interiors (and the Impala's is MUCH improved over the former version), its a fine engine.

    ~alpha
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    American mfgrs. have always continued to do what they do best. Pushrod engines do tend provide proportionately more torque sacrificing a few ponies and some efficiency. Good example of this is the GM 3.8 V6 that rated up to about 210hp but 230 lbs torque - tied to some low cruise gearing this engine could get 30 mpg highway in some large cars. Call it antiquated if you will, but successful and reasonably durable. GM and Ford are starting to 'get with the program' as far as these continuously variable dual cam overhead valve trains, multiple injector engines such as the 2GR engine in the Avalon and the IS350 - guess we will see how it fairs long term - that 3.8 I'm talking about is, in many respects, a tough act to follow.
  • scramblinmanscramblinman Member Posts: 33
    Sounds a lot to me like few of you (if any) have actually DRIVEN the Five Hundred. Especially with the CVT.

    Doesn't feel underpowered to me.


    Well, we DID take a Ford 500 with CVT for an extensive test drive where I put it through the wringer and I can unequivocally say that powerwise, it does indeed leave a LOT to be desired. Even my wife, a very mellow driver, commented on it's lack of power and responsiveness compared to her old car, a '00 Impala LS 3.8 V6 with 95,000 miles on the odometer. While we liked the overall size and appearance of the 500, it was notably underpowered compared to the Avalon Limiteds we were initially interested in. I can also say with absolute surety that the car we ultimately opted for, an '05 Maxima SE, would blow the 500 right off the road in all but the worst driving conditions in which case the 500's AWD would come in handy.


    And just like I could in my 1996 Taurus wagon, I can STILL out-accelerate 98% of the Corvette drivers on the road

    Not if the Corvette drivers are even trying.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    "Even my wife, a very mellow driver, commented on it's lack of power and responsiveness compared to her old car, a '00 Impala LS 3.8 V6 with 95,000 miles on the odometer."

    What's her 0-60 time in that thing?

    What's your 0-60 time in the Five Hundred?

    Be sure to actually TIME it, and give it the gas.

    "Not if the Corvette drivers are even trying."

    And that was exactly my point.

    Am I going to win drag races in a Ford Five Hundred? Nope

    Do I have enough power to (safely) get around those who are in my way with one? Yup.

    Can I beat 99.9% of the drivers of a Toyota Avalon when I want to with it? Yup.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    "Can I beat 99.9% of the drivers of a Toyota Avalon when I want to with it? Yup."

    What the hell is the point of a statement like that? Uhm, yea, a Chevy Aveo at full throttle will no doubt beat a 268 horse Avalon as well if the Avalon driver is using 1/4 pressure on the gas.... its not a testament to power or acceleration at all.

    Bottom Line: Even the most expensive Ford Five Hundred is among the slowest in the class. It'll outrun a Kia Amanti and nothing else, save MAYBE for the 3.5L 211 horse base Impala LS, 1LT, 2LT.... but I doubt even that b/c GM's 4 speed is very responsive despite lacking in ratios and the 3.5L has a torque curve that the Duratec can't match from its displacement.

    ~alpha
  • alan_salan_s Member Posts: 362
    He meant he can beat 99% of the PARKED drivers of a Toyota Avalon...

    The old Avalon's performance left the 500 for dead.

    The new Avalon will roast the 500's headlamps in it's afterburners, and then shake the rest of it into shrapnel in the thundering wake of turbulence...

    Sorry barnstomer64, I've driven the 500 and you lose on this one. If you drive a new Avalon you'll know what we are talking about! ;)
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    "What the hell is the point of a statement like that? .... its not a testament to power or acceleration at all."

    That's my point, exactly. And you made it for me.

    If you have enough power to beat 99% of the drivers on the road . . . you don't really need any more (other than for bragging rights or "racing" in situations that are most-likely unsafe for all involved.)

    Now, when you own a car that has to be FLOORED to keep up with the average drivers on the road . . . then you're definitely well into the "underpowered" category.

    I guess it all gets down to your definition of "underpowered":

    1) Underpowered in terms of drag racing?

    2) Underpowered in terms of beating ALMOST EVERY determined driver out there in a true sports car?

    3) Underpowered in terms of enough acceleration to get around the vast majority of drivers on the freeway, merging safely, etc?

    If you've got to beat every male teen and early 20's driver out there with a sports car, then the Five Hundred might feel underpowered to you. Otherwise, it's nowhere NEAR "underpowered".

    A lot of people FEEL that it's underpowered, because of how the CVT works compared to a normal automatic.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    "The new Avalon will roast the 500's headlamps in it's afterburners, and then shake the rest of it into shrapnel in the thundering wake of turbulence..."

    With less than 1% of the Avalon drivers at the wheel, sure.

    Otherwise, it's down to which driver really wants to get around the other vehicle.

    I'd venture to say that the vast majority of Avalon and Five Hundred drivers have lost enough testosterone that they feel the need to get into a race at every opportunity. Most are satisifed to simply be able to get around the idiots drivers on the roads. And either vehicle gives them the power to do just that.
  • scramblinmanscramblinman Member Posts: 33
    "Even my wife, a very mellow driver, commented on it's lack of power and responsiveness compared to her old car, a '00 Impala LS 3.8 V6 with 95,000 miles on the odometer."

    What's her 0-60 time in that thing?

    Edmunds say 8.2 seconds for a 2000 Impala LS

    What's your 0-60 time in the Five Hundred?

    Edmunds says 8.93 seconds for a 2005 Ford Five Hundred Limited w/AWD & CVT

    Be sure to actually TIME it, and give it the gas.

    Bleh. We already drove the car and felt it with the seat of our pants. Believe me, if even my wife notes a lack of power, it's readily apparent. When literally EVERY review notes the cars lack of power compared to it's competitors, that should probably tell you something, too. And where we really missed the power in the Five Hundred wasn't in jack rabbit starts and 0-60 times, but at highway speed when we punched it to see what kind of passing power it has. This is where we felt the Maxima really shineseven moreso than the Avalon. Not only is the car at least 2.5 seconds faster than the Five Hundred in 0-60, but it pulls hard all the way to 6500rpm and the passing power is phenomenal. It's just plain FUN to drive. (Probably a good thing it's the wife's primary car. I'd have a ticket by now. :P )

    "Not if the Corvette drivers are even trying."

    And that was exactly my point.

    Am I going to win drag races in a Ford Five Hundred? Nope

    Do I have enough power to (safely) get around those who are in my way with one? Yup.

    Can I beat 99.9% of the drivers of a Toyota Avalon when I want to with it? Yup.

    Yes, the Five Hundred has adequate power to safely drive and manuever in modern traffic. No one is disputing that. Yeah, you will probably beat my 70 year old parents and their Avalon to the next stoplight. I'm not exactly sure what bragging rights that gives anyone. I guess it boils down to whether one wants to settle for merely adequate or go for ample in the power department.

    By the way, we kept that '00 Impala LS as a work car for myself. So I suppose I'll be able to thrash those Five Hundreds in either the Maxima or the old beater. :P

    The Five Hundred could be such a better car if Ford would just give it the heart it deserves.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    vehicle dynamics (braking, power, handling etc.) without a doubt THE most important set of safety features on any car. It's not whether you use the Avalon's power regulary, it is the fact that it is there if and when you need it. The 500 is a big comfortable car that falls well short of any Avalon (and even things like 300 3.5's) in this regard. Ford has been having some trouble getting the car off the dealer lots, Avalons generally hsve to be ordered - should tell you something. Yes, I own an Avalon - and will tell you that I never even considered a Ford product and never will or, at least, until I see the Red Sea part again!
  • gteegtee Member Posts: 179
    Like I said, you in a Ford 500 can beat 98% of Chevette drivers on the road. Maybe you can take on Ford Expedition drivers and Ford Focus drivers. I think that most Ford Explorer drivers are also good targets for you especially if it comes with V6 engine. So keep an eye out for that V8 sign on Explorers.

    I also drove both the 500 and Avalon and there is simply no comparison between two cars. Avalon is much faster and much quieter. The engine is much smoother in Avalon. I did like the trunk in 500 and I thought that 500 was more solid car. I also liked the inside of a 500 better. Ford 500 is also much cheaper. You can pick one up in Atlanta for under $20K. Avalon is at least $6-8K more then a 500. Its almost not fair to compare the two cars because they are in a different price range. I have not test driven a GM car in 10 years. One GM car was enougth to last me a life time.

    Ford 500 with the new 3.5L will be a great car, but right now its underpowered. Even Ford admits that they released 500 and Freestyle with current 3.0l engine because the development of 3.5L engine was behind schedule.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    The Azera at least on paper looks to be a viable alternative to the Avalon. Would not expect it to have the Av's near Lexus level of fit and finish, but in terms of drivetrain and option levels it looks to save almost 5 grand over the Avalon. Actually, it needs to - research resale values on a 3 year old Sonata V6 vs. let's say a Camry V6 (Accords and Altimas also apply) - what you will find out is that at trade-in time the higher values of the Japanese cars exceed the difference in cost new. Unfair, perhaps (in view of the Hyundai's warranties), but why not not buy the Avalon, in this case, if you are going to get the higher cost back (and then some) when it comes time to sell it? Korean cars unfortunately have a stigma of, well, being Korean - despite the fact that the new much, much improved Sonata V6 is actually a pretty fine little car and I'm guessingt that the Azera is likely following suit.
    The Impala, Pontiac, 500, and even the 300 not even in the same class as the Av and probably the Azera!
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    "and will tell you that I never even considered a Ford product and never will or, at least, until I see the Red Sea part again!"

    Well, at least we know you're not biased. LOL
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    "Edmunds say 8.2 seconds for a 2000 Impala LS "

    "Edmunds says 8.93 seconds for a 2005 Ford Five Hundred Limited w/AWD & CVT "

    And this site

    http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Spec_Glance.aspx?year=2005&make=Ford&model=Five%20Hundre- d&trimid=-1

    Says 7.6 seconds for the SEL with CVT (no AWD)

    And this site

    http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/New/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/38122/Act/Roadtest?print=- yes/

    says 7.5 seconds for the AWD / CVT combo

    And this site

    http://www.automarketreview.com/1112504.shtml

    says "That said, it actually doesn't perform as lethargically as the power numbers suggest (7.5 to 8.5 second 0-60 times, depending on AWD and tranny)"

    And MotorTrend

    http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0411_hd_500ford/index2.html

    says 7.5 (fwd); 8.0 (awd)

    "Yeah, you will probably beat my 70 year old parents and their Avalon to the next stoplight. I'm not exactly sure what bragging rights that gives anyone."

    $20 says I'll beat at least 90% of those my age driving one, too. Why? They bought the car for status, not to actually use the driving performance capabilities.
  • scramblinmanscramblinman Member Posts: 33
    "My other issue is just that a 3.0L engine putting out barely over 200 horses isn't good enough anymore. The Duratec is a fine engine, but it's being laden with an AWD system, making the power a bit deficient."


    "What's Hot
    • Voluminous interior space, nice appointments
    • Refined, well-controlled handling
    • Sharp steering, good brakes

    What's Not

    • Engine sadly underspec'd
    • Fit and finish not yet up to the best Japanese/German standards
    • Styling not for everyone    "
  • scramblinmanscramblinman Member Posts: 33
    "Yeah, you will probably beat my 70 year old parents and their Avalon to the next stoplight. I'm not exactly sure what bragging rights that gives anyone."

    $20 says I'll beat at least 90% of those my age driving one, too. Why? They bought the car for status, not to actually use the driving performance capabilities.

    Do you not understand that you are not "beating" someone who isn't even trying? Avalon drivers must thoroughly humiliate every Five Hundred they encounter lest they be deemed mere status seekers? Have you even driven a new Avalon and seen how much more refined and better equipped it is than a Five Hundred? We certainly know that people are not buying Five Hundreds for their performance capabilities.

    Dang, the next time I manage to out-accelerate a Five Hundred or any other new car from a stoplight in my 23 year old 82hp CJ8 I'll have to remind myself what a great driver I am and how competitive my Jeep is.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    only has to do with Ford's astounding track record of putting well assembled and reliable vehicles on the road. Can't think of one - at least in the last 50 years - well after, however, when the Red Sea parted...
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    This car isn't even in the showroom yet. So we have to compare a video of it to these other cars? What if it has the lame driver's seat init like the Sonata?

    I wouldn't want to buy a first year edition of any Korean car considering their reputation. Aren't they having a fire sale on the XG350 now?
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    and you're right - awfully hard to truly evaluate a car not really available yet. Hyundai has, however, been doing a much better job with quality. Don't know how the new Sonata V6 is fairing but was pretty impressed (for as car costing less than $20k ) esp. with the drivetrain. The Azera has the power, and general other specs. that it should be competitive - we'll see. Yeah, would imagine they are giving away the XG350. The real problem may be that 'Korean' reputation, and how it effects resale values.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    There are plenty of Fords on the road that are well assembled and reliable, they just get no respect.

    I have had two Tauri, a 1990 stripped Vulcan LX that served me well for ten years and 100K miles. This car for it's time handled and drove very well and never developed any squeeks or rattles.

    My current 2000 SES Duratec is at 56K and has been rock solid, handles well. Yes you can call it blah and a rental car and the usual press cliches, but it is solid and well built. Furthermore I bought it new out the door for $18K. You couldn't find any V-6 CamCord for anywhere near that price at the time, and still can't find one even near $20K today.

    Avalon is pushing into luxury car prices, and well it should with all the bells and whistles they have loaded onto even the base model. If you compared more on comparable price ranges, then Toyota, Honda and Nissan don't really have much to offer anymore, as Maxima and Avalon have priced themselves into the luxury ranges these days, and Honda has nothing to compete against the Five-hundred in the large car, reasonably low price market.
  • oldsvenoldsven Member Posts: 13
    I believe power is both overrated and subjective. The 500 merges well and has enough power to pass easily. It doesn't snap your head back from a stop, however, if thats what's important to you. My favorite guage of what is sufficient is whether the car needs to downshift going up hills on the highway at 65. The 500 with the 6 speed doesn't, so I'd call it good enough. For $8k or more less than the Avalon, you should expect some compromises, whether its power, features, or quality of interior. Most liokely a combination of all. Thank god Ford didn't switch to RWD. Chryslers 'hot' new cars are essentially 4 passenger vehicles replacing competent 5-6 passenger cars. While many folks on these forums are too young to remember, there were very good reasons for the switch to FWD in the first place.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    For anyone who might have missed it, this is copied from the Edmunds Sedans newsletter:

    "Hyundai last week said its new Azera full-size sedan would be priced very competitively with the Ford Five Hundred, Nissan Maxima and Toyota Avalon, its prime competition. The Azera SE -- with standard 263-hp, 3.8-liter V6; eight airbags; stability control; and a five-speed automatic -- will retail from $24,995, Hyundai says. The Limited model will be priced from $27,495 with added equipment like a CD changer and foglamps; and the Ultimate Package on the Azera Limited with leather trim and other features brings the price of that model to $29,995. The Azera goes on sale late this year, but Hyundai will be advertising the vehicle heavily in the beginning of 2006 as more vehicles arrive in showrooms."

    Click here to see the newsletter itself.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Seems like a very good price. The Avalon limited is around $33-34 I believe?

    Hyundai is putting together attractive products. It's surprising how fast Hyundai has changed its offerings.
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Member Posts: 468
    You are quite right. The 500 is not underpowered. We have become obsessed with 0-60 acceleration numbers. The difference of .5 second or even a second or even 2 seconds is not perceptible in real world driving. Ok, if people want to haul heavy loads and drive like a fool, get a V-8. The 500 should have an optional engine, but we will have to wait for that. Americans are obsessed with mine is bigger than yours.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    If you can't tell the difference through the seat of the pants between a car that takes 8 seconds to 60 and 10 seconds to 60, you need to have the seat of your pants examined (same goes for the 6 second to 8 second comparison).

    Also, I can feel a difference between an Accord I4 5A and a Camry I4 5A, two cars separated in acceleration by about half a second to 60.

    ~alpha
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    I am sure what bruneau1 means and what was stated was that IN REAL WORLD DRIVING the differences are imperceptible.

    Really, how many time does the average driver put the pedal to the floor from 0-60, or even get the opportunity to do that? Almost never. Thus, whether your car gets to 60 in 8 seconds 6 is 99% of the time not important, if people were honest enough to admit it.

    The HP wars have gotten ridiculous. I am old enough to have owned a 1977 Buick Century with a 350 cubic inch 2 barrel V-8 that was slower than even my 1990 Vulcan Taurus and had not much better than 1/2 the fuel efficiency. Now I own a 2000 Duratec equipped Taurus that has about more guts than anyone really needs for everyday driving, and the Five Hundred with either the six speed or CVT is just about as quick as my lighter weight Taurus.
  • scramblinmanscramblinman Member Posts: 33
    If we all drove only what we needed, we'd all be in base model Ford Focuses, Toyota Corollas, maybe a minivan, etc. No one truly needs an Avalon, Impala, Five Hundred, Maxima, etc.

    I consider the world I drive to be just as real as anyone elses and even in my daily driving I can definitely tell the difference between our 265hp Maxima and our 200hp Impala. I don't have to put the pedal to the floor to both notice and appreciate the difference, either. The Maxima is so much stronger, smoother, and has a sweet exhaust note. Both cars get roughly the same fuel economy, so why wouldn't I want the one that can be funner to drive? I suppose that if one is numbered among those poor souls stuck in mindnumbing, bumper to bumper stop and go traffic day in and day out then they might not appreciate the difference in performance. Then again, they probably also would not perceive the added benefits of full independent suspension, 4 wheel disk brakes, etc.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    MSRP of base 2006 3.5 litre Impala is over $6k less than the base Maxima, I would hope your getting something for that!
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