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Hyundai Azera vs Toyota Avalon vs Ford Taurus vs Chevrolet Impala

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Comments

  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    Old news.

    Yes they have lost money recently on North American auto manufacturing only. Ford Credit made up for this loss, and other worldwide operations were profitable. Shortly after that press release, Ford surprised Wall Street with a much better than expected quarter, and, once again they were profitable for all of 2005 fiscal year which ended in third quarter last year.

    Yes, Ford has profitability issues on North American manufacturing operations, but all the doom and gloom prognostications about them going under are much much exaggerated. That's my only point, so don't read more into what I posted than that.
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    Besides powertrain, the 500 has both the Azera and Avalon beat in terms of interrior space (rear seat and trunk) and you can get a base 500 for about 21K. The limited does not have a rear sunshade but it is the only car to get 5 star side creash ratings without side airbags.
    Plus, Ford is gonna have a new 3.5L that should put the 500 more inline with the foreign cars in terms of power. It is interesting that people do not mention how the other lack when compared to its interrior. IMO the interrior style of the 500 is also better than either avalon or Azera. 500 has a nav system that the Azera does not.

    The problem is, US manufacturers need to improve their cost situation without leaving the US, the interriors of both the 500 and the impala are very good, IMO, but they do not finish the job on the side doors, and it leaves a strange feeling that one does not get in the foreign cars. Still, they are more than worth looking at, and I think both 500 and Impala sell more than either Avalon or Azera, but im not sure.

    The Impala with the V8 has it all over both Av and Azera.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    the interior space (cubic feet) same for the 500 as it is for the Avalon (107) both also with 55 CF in rear. Source: C&D sedan comparison last summer) The trunk, however - yep, the 500 will hold an extra body or two, and yep, interior styling definitely a step up.
    The Impala SS, BTW, not any quicker than the Av (they are very close) and early returns are showing that these DoD (displacement on demand) are not really effective with mpg, read things like 14 city/ and 18 overall on the SS. The 300C, BTW, the same problem and still only about .5 sec. quicker to 60. Think the engine of choice probably that 3.9/242 hp for the Impala.
    GM announced yesterday an additional $2 billion in losses for 05 - how will they ever be able to compete under those conditions. FYI, the Azera (designed and made in Alabama)
    and the Avalon (designed in Calif/made in Ky.) are every bit as 'American' (many GM/Ford/Chrysler products spend time in Mexico and Canada), and somehow both Toyota and Hyundai can keep costs in line with American labor and suppliers. The problem is maybe spelled UAW along with some antiquated production facilities and techniques.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Okay...in order to beat and Azera or Avalon (in class), you have to turn to an Impala SS with a V-8??? You would think that's like bringing a samurai sword to a pencil fight, but in reality...the Impala SS is merely a bigger pencil. Granted it has a little more power, but other than that...very bland styling and the interior lacks interest.

    I've looked inside the Ford 500 and while the interior is much improved over many of Ford's past products, it's not something that draws one into the car. The best interiors I've seen on American cars (in class) would be the Chrysler 300 and the Buick Lucerne. Ford has improved greatly, but still has a ways to go. Actually, I would opt for a top of the line Ford Fusion which maybe smaller, but has more horsepower than the 500 and better styling both on the exterior and interior.

    Of the 3 you mentioned, the Avalon will sell more than the Azera or the 500 simply because it's a recognized make and model. The 500 and the Azera are both new, so there's no history consumers can base anything on.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    The Buick Lucerne, right now, is GM's best non-Cadillac interior. The STS is, for the first time, finally impressive in this regard. One American interior that people don't really laud frequently, but I was *Very* impressed with after a 1 week rental- the upper-trim Chrysler Pacifics. Everything moved very snick-snick (wiper, light stalks), panel fit was good, materials were varied but well coordinated, and the electroluminescent instrumentation.. well, I would consider it gorgeous were it not for the odd expanse of black abyss in the non-Nav speedo....

    I still have no idea why people fuss over the 500s interior- dinky instrumentation, Fisher-Price button feel, vinyl covered doors, oddly thick and unattractive steering wheel.... the Fusions interior is much nicer...

    ~alpha
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    its almost like you were in some different 500. If i remember correctly, toyota also has vynil in its doors. Im an not sure about button feel but i can tell you the design is simpler and more functional than the avalon. I say it and thought the av would take a bit to ge used to, the 500 (along with any car that uses fords new design) is very simple to use.

    i really do not believe avaons interrior is the same as 500's, meybe with the rear seat reclined all the way back, but the point is, the 500 has the biggest rear seat and trunk. It is also higher off the ground and easier to get in and out of. The front seats are about the same as the avalon.

    the only space it lacks is power, and that will be addressed soon.

    as for the impala, if it is bland then the avalon is beyond that. The fact that you can have one with v8 says alot. And if you don't want a v8, but still want it feature laiden, you can get the v6 will most of the bells and whistles, and still pay less than the avalon.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    It is also higher off the ground and easier to get in and out of.

    That's one thing I really love about the Five Hundred, and there just aren't any other sedans out there that I'm aware of that are similar in this regard.

    It seems about right to me. Not so low to make a great sports car, but not so high to make a great off-road vehicle. But just about perfect for the average adult to get in and out of easily and comfortably.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    they are called Volvos, ostensibly owned by Ford and makers of higher ground clearance vehicles for years - and without whose help, the 500 doesn't exist. Where do you think that 5 star safety rating comes from - Dearborn?
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    When I can get a Volvo S80 for the same price as the Ford Five Hundred, let me know. ;)

    Actually, I'm not positive the S80 has a seat-height as high as the 500 or not . . . . but I'll take your word on it.

    If I'm not mistaken, the Five Hundred is also a larger vehicle than the S80.
  • pocono35pocono35 Member Posts: 89
    The impression from both the video clip and the first drive article is that the Azera is comparable in every way to the best competition and better in most respects. Watch the video. One impressive safety feature on the Azera is the stopping distance of 118ft!!!!! Hyundai has hit a huge homer with this car, according to most critics, and it will be interesting to see the RWD 'Equus' replacement they are scheduled to release in 2007 which is to compete against Lexus, Infiniti and BMW. Finally, Hyundai's actually perform as good or better than the competition. It will be interesting to see if the RWD offering is as much of a jump as the Sonata and Azera have been.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    no, don't think the dollar-to-euro exhange rate would ever allow that to happen. Ride heights probably more comparable with the XC series, and also the source of the AWD technology. The 500 and ,I'm pretty sure, the Fusion, actually based on platforms developed by Ford (or its sister cos.) overseas.
    The 500 would never sell over there, too big for their roads, they do have taxes based on engine displacement, and they have a different idea of how a vehicle should drive. So Ford and many other manufacturers, base entire product selections on as few 'platforms' as possible - making whatever size adjustments needed to suit particular markets. The S80 is an extremely large car over there, almost mid-size over here. Nissan is probably the best at this right now, their FM platform the basis for all kinds of offerings from the Altima, to SUVs, all the way up to the Infiniti M. I know we've been thru this - but, both the 500 and the Fusion are good designs however "European" they may be in origin, they just need some more guts.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    Ride heights probably more comparable with the XC series

    That's what I thought, based on what I've seen. But I have the Freestyle instead of the XC.

    The 500 would never sell over there, too big for their roads

    It seems pretty wide over here, too. Length is OK, though. About the same as the Taurus.

    they just need some more guts.

    So far, the Freestyle and Five Hundred have had more than enough "guts" to get me around practically everybody. I suspect I'm more aggressive in my driving than the target demographics of either vehicle, as well.

    Not that I wouldn't have bought a 3.5L if it weren't a whole lot more money, of course. But I certainly won't feel the need to "upgrade" to one with the new 3.5L when they come out sometime next year.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    and you are right to the point that even putting 150 hp engines in 3500 lb. car is enough guts. But, from a competitive standpoint even 200 hp is not enough - what is selling these days is BOTH power and economy - which is where the Avalon, in particular, leaves the rest of the cars in this (and most other groups) in the dust! Been driving my car around town all week, it is now sitting in the parking lot with an indicated 28.3 mpg on the trip computer and on a tank of gas that I will get 450 miles out of - and still be able to lay rubber in 2 gears, in the unlikely event I would ever want (or need) to.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    Actually, given current oil prices, it's ironic about the current push towards more HP in car engines.

    Given that they can seem to design more powerful engines these days without sacrificing much on gas mileage, I'd think they could've kept the engine at 3.0L and maybe increased it to 225hp, and actually improved mpg beyond what the 270hp 3.5L engines are getting.

    Now THAT'S what I'd probably rather have these days. If oil and gasoline prices stay elevated, I suspect we'll start to see that trend at some point. At which time gasoline prices will probably go back to $1 per gallon. :P
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Here is the link to Edmunds' Full Test of the Azera (including pics and clip):

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=109613#18

    "Our test car posted a swift 7.2-second 0-60-mph time and a 15.5-second quarter-mile, right in line with the numbers we've gotten out of the Avalon, which has a 268-hp, 3.5-liter V6. Interestingly, the Azera is also a half-second quicker to 60 than a V8-equipped Buick Lucerne, which we tested the same day."
  • ricwhitericwhite Member Posts: 292
    If you're concerned at all about safety, I'd pass on the Azera. It is by far the worst car in its class based on crash test results that are just in. The Ford 500, Chevy Impala and Toyota Avalon are much safer vehicles.

    Heres some crash test data on head injury on the driver (higher is worse)

    2006 Toyota Avalon - 342 (5 star)
    2006 Chevy Impala - 411 (5 star)
    2006 Ford 500 - 335 (5 star)

    2006 Hyundai Azera - 698 (4 star)

    Other areas are also worse with the Azera.

    This is a huge disappointment with the Azera and, in my opinion, falls into the "false advertising" area since their very own Azera brochure states that the Azera has "class-leading" safety when, in fact, just the opposite is true.

    Azera Crash Test Results
  • cneumancneuman Member Posts: 55
    Although, I know that this pales in comparison to the crash test results. I'd appreciate some opinions on the importance of "turning circle" stats. I noticed that GMs & Fords all seem to have higher # than the Avalon and Azera. How important is this in terms of parking, the occational U turns, and other possibly necessary manuevers? :(
    Ford 500=40ft
    Chevy Impala=39.6ft
    Hyundai Azera=37.4ft
    Toyota Avalon=36.9ft

    Thanks for any imput.
    cn
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    It's not all as important in parking, but it certainly can be in U-turns.

    It can be somewhat important, though, in backing OUT of a parking space.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    The new toyota 3.5 actually improved mpg a couple of mpg while picking up 75 hp (05 vs. 04).I regard that extra power as an important SAFETY feature - equally as important as the 538 airbags, crash safety ratings, garbage computer controlled stability control systems etc.. Vehicle handling, braking, and evasive capabilties still on the top of any logical list of 'safety' features - so that added ability (power)to get out of somebody's way - highly desirable.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I think its definitely unfair to dismiss this vehicle for its 4 star rating. The NHTSA tests are antiquated, don't factor in important aspects such as vehicle structure, and sometimes vary between years.

    I'm much more interested in the IIHS tests, and Hyundai's performance here has been improving in the recent past.

    To the person interested in manuverability- check out the Azera/Avalon comparo in the March 06 issue of Motor Trend. They did actual instrumented testing of steering response, feedback, etc. I recognize that you are more concerned with tight manuvers such as parking, but you may find it interesting.

    ~alpha
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    The new toyota 3.5 actually improved mpg a couple of mpg while picking up 75 hp

    But that was my point. Just imagine how much the gas mileage could've been improved had they designed it around 200 hp, instead.

    In today's environment, I'll bet a lot of people would rather have even better mpg than those extra horses. Especially since they don't really use them.

    so that added ability (power)to get out of somebody's way

    I'd venture to say it's quite rare for the power to be used that way. In fact, it's much more likely that power would be used to get INTO somebody's way. ;)
  • ricwhitericwhite Member Posts: 292
    I think its definitely unfair to dismiss this vehicle for its 4 star rating. The NHTSA tests are antiquated, don't factor in important aspects such as vehicle structure, and sometimes vary between years.

    The NHTSA tests are not "antiquated" but have been scientifically refined over the years. They are now quite precise objective tests. They don't just stick a dummy in a car and ram it into a wall. They spend weeks preparing the vehicle and everything is precisely monitored.

    I find it funny how, if the NHTSA tests come back positive, people praise them and plaster the results on posters and brochures as selling points; but when the tests come back negative, they say they are "antiquated", misleading, and prone to error. LOL

    However. . . I DO feel that the IIHS tests are more "realistic" in that they attempt to replicate true-to-life crashes (offset and rear) rather than just a straight crash into a barrier. So, I give more credence to the IIHS tests. But in no way will those tests "replace" or "offset" the NHTSA tests. They just supplement them.

    But we DO need to wait until ALL the tests are in before making a final determination and comparison. But those few tests that ARE in thus far are not encouraging for the Azera.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    I'd venture to say it's quite rare for the power to be used that way
    certainly quite rare, and happened to me last fall - moving along the left lane of the freeway at about 70, extremely slow merging car (maybe 40) decides not only to cut the guy off I'm in the process of passing but also go all the way over into my left lane. I nailed the accelerator, while simutaneously swerving into the break down lane. Cleared this idiot rather easily and may have gotten close to 100 (doesn't take long in an Avalon) before I let off. Ended up being a muliple car accident behind me. Convinced I couldn't have done this without 1) some serious HP, 2) a car with some reasonable evasive capabilities and 3) many cars with stability control enabled.
    All that said, you are certainly right, may never have to do that again!
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    That'll teach you to only do 70 in the left lane. ;)

    I suspect (given what you typed) that it was the swerving that saved your bacon more than the extra ponies. Then again, you don't really give enough details to be certain of that.

    What you shoulda done was carefully bump that other driver off the road (onto the break down lane). Surely with all that extra power and handling you coulda managed that without damaging any other vehicles, right? ;) Now you KNOW that I'm just funnin' with ya, right?
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    yep, 70 a little slow in the left lane down here in Tx.
    I think a combination of both since the guy I should have hit was actually attempting to pull out from behind another crazie that had almost stopped at the end of the entrance ramp. Since all this was happening a few hundred yards ahead of me, I had some time to decide what to do.
    Had I been in my previous ride, an '02 Suburban, would have had no choice but to explore your 'bump' theory, and likely could have 'taken out' that 3000 lb. car with my 6000 lb. truck. Weight usually 'wins' in encounters like this. Did stop up the road and walked on back to what was now a 5 car accident scene - miraculously nobody seriously hurt. Have had 2 calls so far for 'depositions' - hope that it doesn't end up being another case of everybody that was involved suing each other - we do have a 'TV lawyer' problem down here!
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I have never praised a positive performance in the NHSTA tests, and since governments all over the world perform tests much similar to those of the IIHS's program, I dont think its out of the realm of possibility for the NCAP to eventually be replaced with offset collision testing....

    Please elaborate on the scientific refinements that NHSTA has instituted over the years. I am not educated on them, and would like to be. On the surface, it seems to be a very similar test to the one that was begun in '78.

    Are they misleading? They sure can be! Where on NHSTA is structural integrity mentioned? Is this not part of the picture? How can a car earn a five star rating in side impact, but inflict fatal head injury on a dummy? (Is that not misleading? OH! But they disclaim it by stating *****-Saftey Concern! Yea, a fatal head blow is most def. a safety concern!

    ~alpha
  • catman2050catman2050 Member Posts: 28
    If you cannot do a u-turn on a 4 lane road (2 lanes going each direction) without putting your car in reverse, I think the turning radius becomes a safety issue. About 5 years ago, I drove the previous generation Maxima. It has a crappy turning radius and I could not do a u-turn on a 4 lane road without putting the car in reverse. This annoyed me to no end as I obviously had to wait until the coast was VERY clear to make my move. I noticed that the newest Maxima has a similarly crappy turning radius when I test drove it.

    However, don't simply rely on the numbers. Figure it out for yourself. I think every test drive should include one u-turn on a 4 lane road so you can see for yourself what the car can/will do. Also, try parking and backing out of a spot in a busy parking lot. Backing out is usually the bigger problem as you can adjust to the turning radius in parking a car. Ask yourself whether you're going to like having to rotate between reverse and drive to get out of a parking spot.

    I test drove the Avalon and Azera and they both passed these tests for me. I have not test driven the 500 or Impala so I cannot comment on how they perform.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    many FWD cars have relatively wide TRs, has to do with front suspension design and the limitations created by the half shafts driving the wheels. Nissans have been in the 40' range as long as I can remember. That they can do the Avalon/Azera in 3 or 4 feet less is good, particulary if you do a lot of city driving.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    I'm not surprised, the out the door price on my Azera Limited w/premium package (including taxes, tags and title) was just over $26K.

    I had the oportunity to get the '06 Sonata LX fully loaded for $17,800, throw in the taxes, tags and title and the walk out price would have been closer to $20K.

    I'm glad I waited and got the Azera, I needed the extra leg room & trunk space.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    find this interesting - here Hyundai has perhaps the best car they have ever built and one that has been rated pretty well - and they are already having to sell it for a grand or two under invoice! Doesn't speak well for Hyundai's market perception or for resale values down the road - BUT a helluva value - an Avalon Touring/XLS you can't touch for under 29-31 or so (drive out)! Could have saved a another few thousand had you opted for the Ford or Chevy though.
  • wolverinejoe80wolverinejoe80 Member Posts: 337
    i really like hyundai's strategy. they will make sonata a top 5 selling car within 3 years. they want to sell and sell, so people can see more and more hyundai's on the road.

    also here is my prediction.

    hyundai will sell 200K+ sonata in 2007
    hyundai will surpass nissan in 2012
    surpass honda in 2015 and become #2 imports in america

    i said to my friends and they laughed at me. but it will happen, seriously.
  • wolverinejoe80wolverinejoe80 Member Posts: 337
    i really like hyundai's strategy. they will make sonata a top 5 selling car within 3 years. they want to sell and sell, so people can see more and more hyundai's on the road.

    also here is my prediction.

    hyundai will sell 200K+ sonata in 2007
    hyundai will surpass nissan in 2012
    surpass honda in 2015 and become #2 imports in america

    i said to my friends and they laughed at me. but it will happen, seriously.
  • wolverinejoe80wolverinejoe80 Member Posts: 337
    i really like hyundai's strategy. they will make sonata a top 5 selling car within 3 years. they want to sell and sell, so people can see more and more hyundai's on the road.

    also here is my prediction.

    hyundai will sell 200K+ sonata in 2007
    hyundai will surpass nissan in 2012
    surpass honda in 2015 and become #2 imports in america

    i said to my friends and they laughed at me. but it will happen, seriously.
  • wolverinejoe80wolverinejoe80 Member Posts: 337
    i really like hyundai's strategy. they will make sonata a top 5 selling car within 3 years. they want to sell and sell, so people can see more and more hyundai's on the road.

    also here is my prediction.

    hyundai will sell 200K+ sonata in 2007
    hyundai will surpass nissan in 2012
    surpass honda in 2015 and become #2 imports in america

    i said to my friends and they laughed at me. but it will happen, seriously.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    Whats going on? do you think if you say it enough times it will happen?

    But seriously, while I wouldn't put money on that right yet I can see how it can happen.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The 'full frontal' NHTSA test is basicially a 'pass/fail' guide to which they've added a lot of 'data' to gloss over the fact that it really only measures the seatbelt characteristics and airbag deployment.. but it's only done at 35 mph while the rest of the world does it at 40 mph.

    In addition the 40% offset test while being more realistic, as per the commentary on the IIHS website, also puts more stress on the frame and the occupants. The frame is stressed from multiple angles while the occupants are thrown about at differing angles as well not just forward and backward.

    Then there are the side impact tests which the NHTSA admits are not very useful and need to be redesigned. See the IIHS website for a description of the differences in the two testing methods.

    The rollover criteria is not a test it's a mathmatical model that predicts how a vehicle might react based on it's wheelbase and center of gravity.

    Finally the NHTSA has no testing criteria at all for 'whiplash' injuries.

    I think outdated is a good description of the testing at the NHTSA. It's basically a pass/fail test. If a vehicle does poorly there it should probably be dropped from consideration. 4 or 5 stars IMO is a passing grade, subject to further testing at the IIHS.
  • bobwileybobwiley Member Posts: 241
    I agree and probably sooner than we all think they'll be #1!! I remember "laughing" at Toyota's and "Datsun's---for you younger folks--that's what Nissan's were originally called! All of a sudden by the early 80's, Toyota's reliability was a well known fact. But, our US car makers laughed at he "rice burners"--afterall, Americans would buy what the BIG 3 produced and like it! Now, here we are 20+ years later and the next "new guy" on the block, Hyundai is making BIG waves---Detroit & soon Japan--are ya watching what's going on? I almost baught a Buick Lucerne---VERY NICE CAR--my concern--1st year and long-term reliabilty. Detroit----beat the foreign competiton and I'll buy "Detroit Iron" once again. I had 3 new Buick Skylarks in the mid-60's--GR8 cars--then in the 1970's the cars continually worse and Detroit got more complacent. Hard to imagine hearing the words "BANKRUPTCY" associated with GM & Ford--mmmm?
  • enkaenka Member Posts: 35
    Hey to day i just saw a black azera limited that car looks really good some people say it looks like buick but no it doesnt look like a buick azera is better looking sportier. I think it looks better than the avalon avalon looks like a rectangle box
  • luvmbootyluvmbooty Member Posts: 271
    I went to NY Auto Show. I sat in the 500 and loved it! The 500 is my pick, being a family man, because crash test scores from Gov. and IIHS came out PERFECT! I wish Ford would see the sign of the times and put in a VVT engine, which all the others have I might add! Also like Command Seating, nice original thought! Toyota is the highest priced and has largest options list which means more money! No thanks! Impala's just damn boring to look at! Azera, I think, Sonata LX is just as good for less money and whcih also recieved good crash test scores! What I love about Sonata is 105 passenger volume and can come with a 4 cyl engine which is also sign of the near future with gas prices continual rise! Unless other fuel sub is offered. Something tells me that today's hybrid engines aren't perfected and down the road will be costly to fix :sick: I'll like to see who can get the better MPG in the up coming models! Toyota seems to be in the going in the right direction with Horsepower/MPG ratio.
  • oldblokeoldbloke Member Posts: 22
    I had decided to buy either the Avalon Touring or the Azera fully loaded, and my wife and I test drove both. Because we take 500 to 1000 mile trips she is very concerned with seating comfort and the Azera's passenger seat to her was much more comfortable. Initially I thought that the Avalon drove a little better. However I considered it overpriced but would have bought it if I could have bought it with only the electronic stability control and floor mats.
    Although Toyota's Web site led me to believe I might do this when I talked to dealers I found that I would have to take other options, including a sun roof, and that Toyota in my region would not supply the car otherwise. This reminded me of Henry Ford's comment about his Model T "You can have any color you like as long as it's black". I thought Toyota's attitude to their potential customers was too arrogant for my liking and I decided to take another look at the Azera.
    My main concerns about the Azera were safety (four stars), reliability, and fuel economy. For safety I concluded that the tests were on one sample of each car only and that without standard deviations, which would unrealistically require a number of cars to be crashed, the results are open to some doubt. Although,the data for each car were far enough apart to make me suspect that the Avalon is somewhat safer. However the G rating published for the Azera by the IIHS gave me some comfort about the Azera's safety.
    For fuel economy I calculated from the EPA ratings that for our typical 4500 miles highway and 3000 miles suburban driving per year the Azera would use an extra 52 gal/year, or $156 at $3/gallon. The best quote I could get for the Avalon Touring with the minimum options available here was $31,045 including sales tax and doc. fees. The corresponding price for the Azera was $28,870 for the Azera Limited with the Ultimate option, a considerably better optioned car than the the Avalon Touring quoted. The interest on the $2,175 price difference would pay for a good part of the extra gas and I'd be over $2,000 better off with the Azera.
    Consumer's Reports give the Avalon an "Average" reliability rating and the Azera is too new to rate. I noted that the Hyundai Sonata now also has an "Average" rating and I thought it reasonable to expect the Azera to achieve this rating also. On reading the Avalon and Azera forums I have not noted any serious complaints about the Azera by owners, this is not the case for the Avalon.
    Anyway, I tested the Azera again and this time liked the way it drove as well as the Avalon. Also subjectively I preferred the styling, conveniences, and interior of the Azera and I bought it. The dealer was helpful, courteous, and low key. So far we like the car very much. As always only time will tell if we've made the right decision. As for resale value, we keep cars for at least 10 years, so unless the Azera turned out to be a lemon, resale value is not important to us.
  • bsparks294bsparks294 Member Posts: 23
    Many problems have been reported with the transmissions on the new Toyota Avalon, so I would definitely steer clear of that car.

    Some software issue, as I understand.

    Those Azera's are sharp, but the dealer will give great incentives on the Sonota.

    Hope that information is helpful regarding the Avalon.
    :lemon:
  • windycity7windycity7 Member Posts: 24
    I spent 6 months thinking I wanted a Toyota Avalon. i thought it was more room & HP than the Lexus ES330. but the forums indicated a lot of transmission and other problems with it. in fact, Toyota seems to be having a lot of quality problems - recent recall on steering columns etc. I test drove the Hyundai Azera (forum has lots of comparisons and were really impressive) back to back with the Avalon. No comparison. The Avalon felt cheaper with plastic feeling leather. The Azera has so many bells and whistles (ESC, EZ-out, elec folding side mirrors, elec rear sunshade, 263 HP,etc) for $4000 less! I bought the Limited with Ultimate package after years as a Volvo owner. People are surprised that I bought a Hyundai, but when the see the car, they are really impressed. Hyundai quality is right up there with Honda the last few years and with Toyota's recent quality problems, will be pressuring Toyota. If you need a "L" or "T" on your grill, then you won't want a Hyundai. If you want quality, luxury at a low price (and will keep the car more than a few years), you owe it to yourself to test drive the Azera and read all the forum postings on Edmunds.
    Good luck
  • windycity7windycity7 Member Posts: 24
    Hyundai will give Toyota and Honda serious competition as their quality and cars win over skeptics.

    Hyundai Reports 2006 Record April Sales
    FOUNTAIN VALLEY, Calif., May 2, 2006 -- Hyundai Motor America today announced April sales of 41,025, a new record for the month. Hyundai's sedans continued to lead the charge. Azera sales were up 82 percent over XG350/Azera sales in April 2005, and Sonata sales grew by 46 percent over last year.
    "We are very encouraged by the strength of our sedans, with Sonata and Azera showing excellent growth over last year," said Mark Barnes, vice president, National Sales, Hyundai Motor America. "The combination of value and safety continues to resonate with consumers."
    All Hyundai cars and sport utility vehicles sold in the U.S. are covered by The Hyundai Advantage, America's Best Warranty. Hyundai buyers are protected by a 10-year/100,000-mile powertrain warranty, a 5-year/60,000-mile bumper-to-bumper warranty, a 7-year/unlimited-mile anti-perforation warranty and 5-year/unlimited-mile roadside assistance protection.
    Following is the sales breakdown for April 2006:

    CARLINE APR/2006 APR/2005 CY2006 CY2005

    ACCENT 3,491 4,022 8,256 13,269
    SONATA 15,716 10,790 58,587 38,931
    ELANTRA 9,121 11,271 34,906 38,106
    TIBURON 1,674 2,124 5,337 5,984
    SANTA FE 3,639 6,129 14,091 22,218
    XG350/AZERA 2,601 1,427 8,861 5,210
    TUCSON 4,657 5,195 16,849 17,252
    ENTOURAGE 126 0 126 0

    TOTAL 41,025 40,958 147,013
  • windycity7windycity7 Member Posts: 24
    Depends if you believe the IIHS or the NHTSA ratings. here are the IIHS results from their web page. Same rating as Toyota Avalon pasted below the Azera.

    Consumers reports is supposedly doing a full review in July if you want to wait a month.

    Azera has 8 airbags including rear side and full head curtains.

    FRONTAL OFFSET TEST
    OVERALL EVALUATION: Good
    Structure/safety cage Injury measures Restraints/dummy kinematics
    Head/neck Chest Leg/foot, left Leg/foot, right


    Important: Frontal crash test ratings can be compared only among vehicles of similar weight.

    Test details:
    The Hyundai Azera was introduced in the 2006 model year as a replacement for the Hyundai XG350. Frontal ratings are assigned by the Institute based on a test conducted by Hyundai as part of frontal crash test verification.

    Restraints/dummy kinematics — Dummy movement was well controlled. During rebound, the dummy's head hit the roof rail.

    Injury measures — Measures taken from the head, neck, and chest indicate low risk of injuries to these body regions in a crash of this severity. Forces on the right tibia indicate that injuries to the lower leg would be possible. Head acceleration from the roof rail hit was low.

    Additional features:
    Side airbags: front and rear head curtain airbags and front and rear seat-mounted torso airbags
    Electronic stability control
    Antilock brakes

    Toyota Avalon
    2000-04 models
    FRONTAL OFFSET TEST
    OVERALL EVALUATION: Good
    Structure/safety cage Injury measures Restraints/dummy kinematics
    Head/neck Chest Leg/foot, left Leg/foot, right


    Important: Frontal crash test ratings can be compared only among vehicles of similar weight.

    Test details:
    The Toyota Avalon was redesigned for the 2000 model year.

    Restraints/dummy kinematics — Dummy movement was well controlled. During rebound, the dummy's head hit the roof rail.

    Injury measures — Measures taken from the dummy indicate a low risk of any significant injuries in a crash of this severity. Head acceleration from the roof rail hit was low.
  • hugobeckerhugobecker Member Posts: 45
    . . . when in doubt, "both feet out". ; -)
  • averigejoeaverigejoe Member Posts: 559
    ...according to this great and informative website:

    http://www.informedforlife.org/

    Check it out!
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    What is the fleet percentage for those sales? LOTS of Sonatas and increasing amounts of Azeras in rental fleets- in March, the YTD for the Sonata was at 30%, and I'm not sure how much that % has decreased since then. Not sure about the Azera.

    Great review of the Azera SE in this month's Car and Driver, except for the abysmal fuel efficiency they logged. Lots of car for $25K (though not as many standard features as one would expect from a top of the line Hyundai).

    bsparks294, as with any car, there are those that love their Avalons and those that don't. Although I havent driven the Avalon for extended periods of time, I never thought the hesitation issue was very significant, and I've observed similar hesitation in other transmissions which interact with the electronically controlled throttle, most notably, in my parents' '05 Legacy. Of note is that Toyota's new 6A used in the Camry (which itself has experienced a manufacturing issue-remedied in current production), is claimed to respond to throttle input and kickdown more than twice as quickly as the older 5A.

    ~alpha
  • aspen4aspen4 Member Posts: 22
    Have not been able to find whether the Azera
    has an outside temperature display, and a
    self dimming rear mirror? Option or otherwise.
  • hugobeckerhugobecker Member Posts: 45
    Yes it has a self-dimming interior mirror (with integrated homelink and a compass display - can't remember the supplier though). And it does have an external temp readout in the HVAC display.
  • vrmvrm Member Posts: 310
    I thought Toyota's attitude to their potential customers was too arrogant for my liking and I decided to take another look at the Azera.

    Right on the money! I will never buy a Toyota because of The Toyota "take it or leave it" attitude.

    All the Toyota recalls in the last 6 months prove one point: Toyota "quality" is grossly overated. Maybe five years ago, Toyota had the quality edge. No more. They are just like any other manufacturer trying to churn out new models and capture market share.

    The latest recall (steering problems) should convince folks to stop overpaying for Toyotas. Save your money.
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