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Hyundai Azera vs. Volkswagen Passat vs. Buick LaCrosse

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Comments

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We already have this one: Hyundai Azera vs Toyota Avalon vs Ford 500 vs Chevrolet Impala. How about if we add the Lucerne there?
  • averigejoeaverigejoe Member Posts: 559
    This title was created to provide a place for those few people who think the Passat is comparable and competetive with the Azera. It includes LaCrosse because it can be equipped to be similar in price, weight and purpose with the Azera and was ignored in the other discussions of Azera's competitors. The Lucerne was not named in the title for reasons explained in earlier messages here.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    The title stays the same, thanks.
  • celica8celica8 Member Posts: 42
    I think anyone looking for an upscale mid-size car should check out the Buick LaCrosse. VW is having some real reliability issues. Buick scores just under Lexus in reliability. For just about $30K you can get a fully loaded LaCrosse CXS. People need to get beyond that false image they may have of Buick of being an old person's car and go test drive it.
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    will be available as wagon.
    I will check Passat wagon when it comes out.

    Krzys
  • averigejoeaverigejoe Member Posts: 559
    Price, weight and similar V6 power of the LaCrosse makes it a closer competitor to Azera Limited than is the Lucerne.
    But adding the necessary options to the LaCrosse to make it as close as possible to the Azera Limited's standard equipment adds $3090 to the LaCrosse MSRP. Grand total $32,185.
    A fully loaded Lacrosse CSX MSRP is $34,660. Invoice is$31,297. That's according to Kelley Bluebook.
    And even then the LaCrosse has no memory seats, no front side air bags, no rear side air bags, and no cassette player. The Lacrosse, at 99 cu. ft. passenger volume, is much smaller than Azera's 107. The Azera's 2000 lb. towing capacity is twice that of LaCrosse. And the Azera bumper to bumper warranty is 5 yrs/60,000 miles instead of LaCrosse's 4 yr/50K. The Azera has 10 yrs/100,000 miles on the powertrain. The Azera Limited with the ultimate package is $29,995 MSRP.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    There are, today, two VW's, the Passat and Jetta that are "silver" rated as being crash worthy in the Insurance Institute's top 10 safest cars.
    -- as I recall, there aren't any other cars in this forum that made the cut.

    Not even a Volvo made it to the list this time around. . . .
  • averigejoeaverigejoe Member Posts: 559
    From another Azera comparison board:
    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.efd2a06?displayRecent

    #201 of 207 Motor Trend by alpha01 Feb 04, 2006 (4:29 pm)
    Bookmark | Reply | E-mail Msg
    Very well written comparison test of the Azera, Avalon, and Passat in the newest Motor Trend. They did many very interesting technical tests to measure ride quality and handling, and although the Azera placed 3rd overall, it did quite well, and was the quietest of the bunch.

    ~alpha
    Replies to this message:
    • ctalk (Feb 04, 2006 5:15 pm)
    • alpha01 (Feb 04, 2006 5:38 pm)
    • ctalk (Feb 04, 2006 6:54 pm) and 3 more...
  • averigejoeaverigejoe Member Posts: 559
    Yeah, I guess you are right. The Passat is not little. After all, it is as big as an Elantra inside.
    But it is heavy. Porky Passat. It weighs about the same as an Azera LX, which is a much larger car.
    (see post #36)
  • jimd4jimd4 Member Posts: 877
    Becareful of resale and residual value on Hydauni.how ever you spell it. My neighbor bought his kid Tiburon and when the kid tried to trade it two years later it was worth nothing
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    It depends on how long you want to keep the car. If you want to keep your car for 3-5 years, Hyundai might not be the best choice. But it may be possible that in those 3-5 years, the resale value will go up.
  • averigejoeaverigejoe Member Posts: 559
    That kid must have torn it up. A 2 year old Tiburon is a nice car. Or should be.
  • kingsalmonkingsalmon Member Posts: 97
    Let us reason here... You buy Japanese cars for $2-7 dollars more when you initially buy the car. Resale value for Hyundai's (for some reason I feel you purposely spelled it wrong) at most are $1-4 less than Japanese cars of the particular class. Resale value may be less, but you purchased the car for less and you pay less in terms of interest. Do the math. If your neighbor is still selling the Tib that costs nothing, I'll buy it for nothing!
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I deleted two posts that had hugely long links that were skewing the page. If you need to post a link that extends beyond the width of the posting column here, please use the Url button beneath the post box. You click it once, paste your URL in (just as you do in a regular message) and click the Url button again. That will keep it from causing a problem.

    But the other thing is that the Tiburon is not on topic here, so links to Tibs for sale don't belong here. A Tiburon's resale value isn't going to tell us how the resale value for an Azera will hold up over the long run.

    Thanks. :)
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    I got a Hertz Hyundai today, and although I do not know it`s competition or anything about it, I can report that it has surprising comfortable feel and drives quite well...In fact it is very reminiscent of my previous 98 or there abouts Lexus ls400, in fact it might be a little better in the driving department..If the dealership gives good service then this brand may in a few years be more highly regarded....Well worth a look....Tony
  • tshwartztshwartz Member Posts: 3
    Hello,

    Does anyone know when the 2006 or 2007 Passat Wagons will be available? I do not see any of them in Massachusetts yet.

    TS
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    I take it that you drove the new Azera - great car!! It competes with Avalon, first and foremost. And to a moderate degree, Maxima, 500 & Lucerne. Passat and Lacrosse (titled), unfortunately, are midsize cars and do not compete with Azera or any other above-mentioned vehicles.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    If I recall, the Passat wagon should be out shortly. Exact pricing have not yet been determined but look for an increase from the Passat sedan prices...
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    I bought the Azera because I was impressed with the experience I had with my 2002 Sonata GLS, which I had for 4 years and put 105K miles on it. The Sonata was very dependable from day 1. The only issues I had with it was a ticking noise from the engine within the first 500 miles, but a pulley change took care of that, a ruptured power steering hose, a defective sensor for the shiftronic transmission and the trunk remote release mechanism came loose. Of course, all of these were covered under warranty and only required maybe an hour of my time to address each one. Speaking of the warranty...WHEW!!!

    To answer your question directly, I had $30K to spend and I got the Azera because of it's looks, interior room, features, value, name plate dependability proven from previous vehicle and of course...that wonderful warranty!!!
  • ricwhitericwhite Member Posts: 292
    I like my Azera, but I am very disappointed in the crash test numbers. In fact, I looked up 25 different sedans including the Passat and LaCrosse and the Hyundai is worse than all 25.

    Here are some numbers regarding head injury for the driver (higher is worse)

    2006 Volkswagen Passat - 502 (4 star)
    2006 Buick LaCrosse - 374 (5 star)

    2006 Hyundai Azera - 698 (4 star)

    Here's a link to the Azera testing:

    Azera Crash Test Data
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Hi rich234, welcome! Your post is better placed in our ongoing general Azera discussion rather than here in a comparo, so I moved it there. Just click on that link to continue.
  • hitman1970hitman1970 Member Posts: 33
    I owned a 2001 Hyundai Elantra GT for 5 years. I put 53,000 problem free miles on it with only regularly scheduled maintenance. No complaints. I have seen the discussion on the price differences between Azera and LaCrosse CXS. After getting through my second Iraq tour in one piece, I decided to get a new vehicle. I am a 35 year old male. I test drove the Buick LaCrosse and loved it. I originally considered the Impala LTZ, but missed out on the 0% APR due to deployment. Buick offered it at the time I purchased my vehicle. I got a 2006 Black LaCrosse CXS from Wilson County Motors in Lebanon, TN. MSRP was $32,490.00. I negotiated to $30,878 (thank you, Edmunds and Consumer Reports). This vehicle had every option except Stabilitrak and the spoiler. It is Black with Grey Interior. 1500 miles on it so far. 20.0 MPG real world and I love driving it.
    Here is the issue with cost difference between GM and Hyundai. Hyundai will get you with the scheduled maintenance. With my Hyundai an oil change was recommend every 3750 miles for city driving. 30000 miles tranny fluid change. Coolant system flush etc. With the LaCrosse you have an Oil Life system that monitors oil life based on engine RPM and temperature. With current driving conditions my first oil change may happen between 7500 and 8000 miles. Less money there. Dexcool coolant with an inspection at 50000 miles. GMs maintenance intervals are less frequent than Hyundai. Something you should consider in cost when comparing vehicles.
    As for a VW. My wife owned a 2000 Jetta for five years. Will not buy a VW again. Cheap interior that fell apart within two years was a big turn off for me. Thank God for warranties because it was in the shop often. CV joint noise, power windows, etc. Expensive once warranty runs out. When our family grew we went with a 2005 Ford Freestyle. Has been a great vehicle so far (12000 miles and no issues.)
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Our Freestyle just turned over 40,000 miles and zero problems.
  • pahefner01pahefner01 Member Posts: 202
    We have noticed in our 2006 Azera that it is so quiet that it's hard to hear the sirens of emergency vehicles. My Dad drove Buicks all his life and we never encountered that "problem". I don't think "noise" is included as a "feature" on the Azera.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Db @ Idle: 38.9
    Db @ Full Throttle: 75.1
    Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 67.1

    Excellent numbers, especially in the areas of idle and cruise, where we spend the most time on.

    Edmunds also voted the Azera as Editors' Most Wanted Vehicles for 2007 - Sedan Under $30,000

    http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/mostwanted/2007/117174/article.html
  • g_alleng_allen Member Posts: 15
    I realize this thread compares Azera vs. Passat vs. LaCrosse but if you are going to throw a Buick in the race, throw in a good one. If you have just $30,000 to spend, buy a 2008 Buick Lucerne CXL with optional Northstar V8. It comes to under $30K (don't believe me? Check.) The Lucerne is basically a reskinned Cadillac DeVille/DTS which even by today's standards is still a good car. And let us not forget that the Northstar V8, though a bit long in the tooth, is still a world class engine. The Lucerne also has a top-notch interior considering the price point. You would have the only full size sedan with a V8 that pulls 25+ MPG on the highway that is whisper quiet for under $30K. That is a lot of value no matter how you look at it.

    The Passat certainly has a nice interior, but it is no surprise that the VW/Audi reliability is spotty at best. My best friend had a Passat and visited me at my house and when he went to leave the car was dead....no clicking, no nothing----NO THANKS!

    The Azera? Look, I respect the huge leaps in quality and refinement Hyundai has made during the past several years, but they have a long way to go. Their cars generally sport sloppy handling, less powerful/efficient powertrains, and poor resale value. I rented a Sonata and at highway speeds I was white-knuckling it to keep it between the lines. I can't imagine the Azera being so much better. It may be better than the rest of the Hyundai cars, but certainly lags behind class competitors/leaders.
  • cobrazeracobrazera Member Posts: 352
    I considered Lucerne before buying my Azera and at the time, a comparable Lucerne with V8 was $5000 more then my Azera - and I get GM employee discount.
    After a current comparison, and including the current $2500 rebate and GM employee pricing on the CXL Special Edition V8, the Lucerne is right on $30000 ( with sunroof, stability control, heated seats, uplevel stereo ). According to the Edmunds " prices paid for 2008 Azera " a Limited Ultimate can be had for around $25000 - so the Lucerne is still $5000 more. For that extra $5000 you get a car that's slower and gets considerably less fuel economy. The Lucerne is very nice IMO, and I could have lived with the additional $5000 in order to buy GM, but the deal breaker for me was the lack of a folding rear seat on the Lucerne.
    As far as the Passat, I wouldn't totally dismiss the car because of an isolated instance at your house. Compared to Azera and Lucerne V8, the Passat is not as luxurious, is more sporty, has much less interior space, and gets way better mileage if you choose the 2.0 Turbo. You would probably pay somewhere between the Azera and the Buick. If you never put adults in the rear seat, I would consider the Passat as a distant competitor to the others. Just my two cents.
  • g_alleng_allen Member Posts: 15
    "....As far as the Passat, I wouldn't totally dismiss the car because of an isolated instance at your house."

    That is just a real life example that I was able to witness which only confirms the reports on VW's poor reliability that are widely available on the Web among other places. Before anyone puts any VW on their shopping list they need to examine reliability reports. VW (and Audi for that matter) have had A LOT of problems and that has been no secret among savvy car buyers. My .02
  • cobrazeracobrazera Member Posts: 352
    The JD Powers Initial Quality Survey ( 1st 90 days, problems per 100 cars ) for 2007 cars :
    Buick 127
    Hyundai 125
    Volkswagen 160
    JD Powers Dependability Study ( 3 years, 2004 model cars ):
    Buick 145
    Hyundai 228
    Volkswagen 298
    So the average VW goes to the dealer about 1.5 more times than a Buick in a 3 year period. Significant, yes, but not enough to keep the Passat off my list since it offers other things which, IMO, outweigh that - such as a savings of hundreds of dollars spent on fuel each year.
  • greatcarsgreatcars Member Posts: 66
    Is Buick considered oldman's car?
  • cobrazeracobrazera Member Posts: 352
    Yup. Until recently, the average Buick buyer was in his/her 60s. The LaCrosse and especially, the Enclave, may have brought that age figure down, but most of the Lucernes I see have seniors in them.
    Personally, that would not decide whether I buy a vehicle; but does the car fit what I desire and need. Size, ride, handling, power, economy, styling, pricing, luxury appointments, etc., are more important to me than who drives what.
  • rahmibubrahmibub Member Posts: 39
    Ah, there's the problem there - you looked at the Highly "reliable" JD Powers Surveys.

    My wife's Passat goes to the shop twice a year - for oil changes. The only time she had to have something changed was for the CV boot - and that was done the same day as the oil change - and it was on the 5 year mark.

    VWs in general have a bad rep for quality - and well deservedly so, but the Passat is a lot more reliable from personal experience. I wouldn't touch the other models if you paid me.
  • tonycdtonycd Member Posts: 223
    With all due respect, I too have a higher regard for your survey than for Power's, except that theirs has a sample size significantly larger than 1.
  • g_alleng_allen Member Posts: 15
    Well, I am pleased to hear of your good fortune. But your experience, Sir, would be the exception. I fully concur with 'tonycd.'
  • caryaloncaryalon Member Posts: 16
    I currently drive a 2005 Passat, and before that, a 2002 Passat. My sample of 1 (plus assorted friends and family) has shown the Passat to be extremely reliable. Basic maintenance, and a couple of minor issue (kids broke the rear ash tray, fixed under warranty).

    My 2 cents...
  • jaymagicjaymagic Member Posts: 309
    You clearly have never driven an Azera or read the numerous posts in these forums. You would find that the Azera's powertrain is very strong and getting stronger (with the same engine getting boosted to 290-300 hp in the coming Genesis). And, my understanding is that Hyundai is trying to keep a no greater than 4hp difference whether it is running on regular or premium.

    As for white knuckles at speed between the white lines at highway speed, I have had mine over 140mph with no problems. 90-100 is a sweet spot for a cruise in an Azera. BTW, for those Avalon lovers, I have no doubt it would do just fine, as well. My 07 Azera's suspension is better described as comfortable versus soft, it is certainly not "floaty". And, the 08 suspension is even a little tighter than the previous years (finally got to test drive an 08).
  • g_alleng_allen Member Posts: 15
    I don't think a Hyundai should be going 140 mph on the road (or a Buick for that matter). And since 99.9% of the driving public will not ever see these speeds, I fail to see where this data is relevant. If you want speed and power, might as well buy the LaCrosse Super. Sure, it's $31-32K sticker but I'm sure it could be purchased for much less and that 5.3L V8 is essentially a small block Chevy, and anyone who claims to know anything about cars and engines know that to be a bullet-proof design that is both powerful and efficient.

    I can respect that you saved $5000 on the Azera over the Buick Lucerne on the front end. You'll need it because you're going to get hammered on the back end (trade-in time).

    I wish you luck and hope you enjoy the Azera. It is one of the better Hyundai cars. I really want to see the Genesis.
  • rahmibubrahmibub Member Posts: 39
    From my perspective, I tend to sample multiple sources for reliability prior to buying any car - Consumer Reports, Web, Etc. Etc.

    From my personal experience, I have never found the JD Power's surveys particularly accurate - but that is my 1 data point + others I know that also experience the same discrepancy. Your mileage will vary, but it is not the end-all-be-all for me.

    Admittedly, I have never considered either the Azera or LaCrosse because I'm not their target buyer. IMHO, the styling is generic, and the interiors are not my cup of tea. A car not only has to hysically move me, but it has to move me emotionally as well. The Passat fits my performance and asthetic requirements like a glove - so I went with it.

    Does this make the Azera or LaCross any less of a car than the Passat? No - because MY requirements are individual to me (as is my lack of faith in JD Powers). Although I have never had any issues with any of our Passats, I know that there are some issues with the current B6 models - probably more so than the LaCross and Azera - so if you value rock-hard reliability more than anything else, the Passat might not be for you.
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