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Toyota on the mend?

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  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited September 2010
    Or is it a case of loss leader to get people back into the Toyota stores?

    Yeah, I do believe that Toyota has received feedback about this car and people love its bodystyle. But Mr.Toyoda doesn't want to lose the U.S. marketplace participation and he knows how popular the mid 80's Corolla AE86 was. And this car will be the best car ever produced for drifting. Who usually does the drifting lingo? Young people. So Mr. Toyoda wants to keep a bare bones FT-86 available in the U.S. for around $20,000. They're going to be really smart if they do keep the low end right around $20,000. He remembers of course when Toyota has put out some affordable and sporty cars and he made a remark in my reading last night where he mentions specifically that this fact makes him sad they don't provide that any more. So he had the ED2 group begin working on this car. That was in mid-2008! The Chief Designer said they had it nailed by August of 2009!

    Yeah, those seats are starting to grow on me but there's a slim chance they'll make production. I like how they slant upwards at one's thigh level.

    About the tires. I really think Toyota will drop to 18" tires for production FT-86's. What is being shown now is the concept model, of course. I would really be surprised if they stay with 19" tires in production. I'm getting used to how this new model introduction game works by now.

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    To me this face is inviting and quite sporty...don't know if those thin slanty lines inside the headlights will remain in production models of this baby

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    This Mazda 3 has a leering, goofy fash

    Once Toyota releases a name I want 2012 Toyota FR-S t-shirts, keychains and I really want a metal model of this pup. Bad. This car changes my perception of Toyota completely. I was wondering when the sleeping corporate giant would wake up and realize that they once made desirable, sporty cars available for the masses. It was apparently lost on making a huge profit.

    The last model Celica and the Scion tC were partly there. I test drove a 2005 Scion tC RS 1.0 in Absolutely Red over in Idaho Falls in early 2006. It was cold out, and I was really going to trade in for a 2006 Scion xA, not the tC. But both cars were fun to drive and even the xA had a solid, well-put together feel. The shifter was a couple of steps up above our 2001 Kia Sportage 4X4's. I wanted the car.

    My wife took a look at the brochure for the 2006 Polar White Scion xA in 5-speed and foglight form and basically laughed. The 2012 Toyota FR-S in 6-speed base from, decent stereo, power w's, l's and m's has already been confirmed to come in at around $20,000 and the dealer is in Elko, NV, about a half mile from the hospital I work at.

    There is no Mitsubishi dealer in Elko and the closest one is in Twin Falls, ID, which is about 229 miles north. We are isolated and for the convenience factor the FR-S just makes a lot more sense. So the plans are solidly in place.

    I want a good relationship with Dale White Motors of Elko, NV, and it is quite nice that they're right here in Elko. This fact really solidifies plans, and this one is one where everything I am learning jibes perfectly with what I am looking for. Almost like I'm some sort of car nut that loves red sportscars made for the masses or something. And there's this huge automaker from Japan that's building the car just for...me.

    I love to hear all about you but sometimes I wanna talk about me. Me-me-me-me-me-me-me-me-me-me-me-me-me.
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    Toby Keith

    Toby's a Ford F-150 and Harley-Davidson man.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited September 2010
    I loved the first Miata. When I watched some dude trying to get his new computer monitor into the front seat, I lost the desire

    It's easy to carry a CRT monitor so long as you open the top to get it in.

    Plus, how often do you haul monitors? I'm an IT guy and it's maybe twice a year.

    Aren't you using Flat Panel monitors now anyway? I can fit a couple of those in my 5 cubic foot trunk.

    The FR-S is a hatch and would probably fit half a dozen of those even with a passenger.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I don't know if the typical Toyota customer is going to want something with tires that probably cost $1500 and might last 20K miles if you are lucky. Seems a little ambitious.

    I'm not sure they'd cost quite that much, probably more like $8-900 in the smaller sizes that will be enough for such a light/small car. The summer tires they spec will be to obtain good results in the car mags. I bet all-seasons will be offered (especially for Subaru's snow belt customers).

    Also, the FR-S will not appeal to the "typical Toyota customer", it will bring in new ones who perhaps have not been there since the Supra went out of production.

    The problem these cars face is longevity - no doubt they'll be a hit at first, but sport coupes suffer from flavor-of-the-month, so Toyota (Subaru, really) will have to update it to keep people interested.

    I know others do not agree, but I think this should be a Scion, and get updates every 3-4 model years or so.

    200hp + RWD for $20 grand will create a HUGE affordable sports coupe niche for them. Even at $22k it will.

    For some reason I find it hard to imagine the price will be any less than $25k, though.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    has a low center of gravity (engine placement)

    This ain't hype, either.

    Let me look for a cutaway to show you what they mean by that...

    Here's one:

    image

    That's a Forester, but check out the position of the engine block - the entire block is below the top of the bumper.

    The metal intake manifolds on that EJ25 is being replaced with one made from composite materials to lower the center of gravity even further (2011+ Foresters get it). As if it needed help.

    Also, that very Forester has nearly 9" of ground clearance. The FR-S should have probably 4-5". So imagine that whole powertrain set even closer to the ground.

    2750 lbs, most of it just 4-10" off the ground. Should stick to the road like glue.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited September 2010
    this statement of yours just gave me an energy bolt.

    2750 lbs, most of it just 4-10" off the ground. Should stick to the road like glue.

    Like nippononly, the only other Edmunds member I know of who might want ta buy one of these pups, we feel that the fact that Subaru is doing the mechanicals is not only really smart (on Toyota's part) but really nice for us to benefit from their new tight business relationship, too.

    And the base $20,000 (perhaps $20,995) will be a reality. Bookmark this and get back ta me in Oct. of 2011 to confirm that, K?

    ateixiera-are you planning on buying one of these, too?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Deal, like I said I'll buy ya lunch next time you're in the DC area.

    You're gonna like this, too:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/news/article.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=10674907

    They say the Subie version will indeed have AWD, and after spotting this test mule are projecting a 0-62mph (100kph) under 7 seconds, with 35mpg to boot.

    Heck, I may have to get one for myself. Now that a coupe and sedan are likely, I wonder if they'll still do a roadster?

    We run 3 cars in our fleet:

    * a winter car (must be AWD/4WD with clearane for snow)
    * a trip car (must be spacious, comfy)
    * a sports/commuter car

    Having the first 2 allow for many compromises in the 3rd.
  • My wife and I are considering the Subie version as a "fun car" as well. She rarely drives my S2k so a fun car for her is in order.

    This one has definitely piqued our interests... :D
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited September 2010
    wow, I read the link and you're right, Subie is going to build their version of the car AWD. And this confirms my mpg estimate of the RWD Toyota FR-S, that being mpg at 35.

    Engineers have apparently worked hard to make sure that the engine meets the latest emissions regulations and delivers town-and-around fuel economy of about 8 litres/100km, or 35mpg.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/news/article.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=10674907

    That is a Subaru estimate for their version of the car but the Toyota version ought to be really close to that. I still think I could pull 36-37mpg with my 2012 Toyota Celica...I...I mean FR-S. :D

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • I believe it was in car and driver first , then here on Edmunds. Toyota said pricing of AE86 base would be $24000 + for base model. Also release was delayed--- they said for styling updates--- maybe trying to redesign to take a few bucks off the pricing.Subaru engines can be fast , but after owning many Subaru's , some turbos and also owning Supra turbos , the Supra engines are better by far--- just look what 15 and 18 year old Supra's are selling for.This car should be compared to the old Corolla coupe -- which I like. Its not a Supra, but could almost be--- if Toyota wanted. This car with the Subaru turbo in it-- Toyota says about 220 horse power, will be about $30000 plus or minus. Hope its better and cheaper--- wait and see.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited September 2010
    the 2012 Toyota FT-86 is going to sell (I'm talking base model 6-speed manual here) for around $20,000. I encourage you to travel up a few posts where I've listed at least 3 recent articles where Mr.Toyoda has stated his dismay of the current situation and that he intends to fix it.

    Since last year, we’ve been hearing about a new sports car from Toyota and Subaru that will be priced around $20,000 and would give the two brands something to be proud about. However, both automakers were very good at keeping their upcoming sports coupe out of way of spy photographer lenses and never really talked much to the media about it in terms of when it will be available or what it would be called. In fact, the car’s nickname eventually became “Toyobaru,” which to say the least, we hated.

    Toyota and Fuji Heavy plan to have the FT-86 on the roads by 2011. Subaru will get its own version of the car. Prices are expected to start around 3 million yen ($33,700 USD) in Japan and around $20,000 in the United States.

    I've already provided links to the two quotes above in the posts of mine that come in a string just above. I think a lot of you are not sure that Toyota will offer the base FT-86 for only $20,000 and I'm telling you that they will. Reason being that they want the youth involved here and this car will attract scads of youths.

    But young people don't have much money. Hence the need for $20,000 pricing. Plus, come on now people, Toyota is the King of Decontenting. They will decontent, make their final decision on what is and isn't important in the end, and make a final judgement on production content.

    And you and I and everyone else will see that they will charge $20,000 for the base model of this car. The FT-86 in 6-speed manual form that is.

    Here's a quote from an April 2010 Car and Driver article that states the car will cost just above $20,000. So it might cost $21,000-$22,000, yes. I'm just thinking that Toyota will not even want to go a few grand more and do what they've been saying they're gonna do, and that is make a base 6-speed manual-trannied model available for old guys like me who love sports cars and the budding youth who want ta Snoop Dogg and Katy Perry it in their own FT-86. For around $20,000.

    The target is just above $20,000, so Toyota and Subaru will face tough competition from V-6 versions of the Chevy Camaro and the Ford Mustang, along with the Miata and the Hyundai Genesis coupe. But if Toyota’s and Subaru’s sports cars manage to keep curb weights well below 3000 pounds and combine the dynamics of a Miata with stunning looks, they both just might have hits on their hands.

    After reading that you know what popped in to my mind? That Toyota will charge about $20,995 for theirs and Subaru, a much lower volume sales carmaker, will charge about $23,999 for theirs, which will indeed be AWD. We just heard that early this morning.

    I'll be on this stuff like Gary Payton on Michael Jordan in the 1996 NBA Finals, guys. Please throw us all a bone if you beat me to any FT-86 news. I don't want the Subaru, I personally wouldn't buy a new Subaru, I don't like their styling. But Toyota's FR-S is styled just to my liking. Put some good AC/DC on your platters and get back to me later on all of this, OK?

    gagrice, you really don't want one of these? Are you sure? These are gonna be an absolute ball ta drive, man. Belly up ta the bar and take in some loud Foghat with me and talk about it. What again don't you like about the 2012 Toyota FT-86? Remember, Toyota is planning on building a 4-door sedan of the car now.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The FR-S will be affordable, the Supra was not. They will be in very, very different price classes.

    Even way back in the late 1990s it was mid 30s to 40 grand plus.

    11 years later an STI is still cheaper, and the STI is several price clases above the WRX, which is a price class above where the FR-S should end up.

    That's like comparing apples to diamond-encrusted, gold-plated apples.

    With inflation accounted for the new Toyota will cost less than half as much as the Supra did.

    I realize the price on used Supras is absurd but that's because they sold an absurdly low amount of new ones, so they're rare. Even more rare is a clean surviving example, hence the crazy prices.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited September 2010
    maybe it's just me but I think that Toyota has just made the car that will bring in people like myself, who really have despised them for years, but because of what they've been building. Not what they're capable of building. Because I have seen the old Celica Supra's.

    Like I said, I want FR-S t-shirts, keychains and a cool metallic model of this car to set on top of my computer desk. Pardon me while I go spit up my Kentucky Fried Chicken because of my growing excitement for this car. :blush:

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    I still love you...really I do!

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,189
    I was referring to the 19" wheels...having just bought a set of 18" tires for my car, I can still feel the pain. They'll have to knock it down to 18" at the most, maybe bigger as a special option.

    I don't see Scion as being any sportier than Toyota...maybe the brand won't matter. Apparently it's a Subaru anyway. I'm not concerned with that, I think it'll be fine.

    If it costs closer to 30K, it might be a tougher sell in this economy.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,189
    I don't know if I could drive one of those Mazdas, just for the face.

    Toyota is trying to look intimidating...but I don't know if anyone will fall for it.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited September 2010
    Toyota is trying to look intimidating...but I don't know if anyone will fall for it.


    Oh, I don't know, I've already fallen for it! I must like intimidating with sporty cars.

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    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS in blue

    The '08 Lancer GTS has Mitsu's "jet-fighter" inspired nose to it. If that's indeed intimidating to you. Kind of cool looking to me.

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    2012 Toyota FR-S nose

    Sweet.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,931
    edited September 2010
    Nice Blackbird. Too bad that blue car is in the way.
    I think was was Lockheed, not Boeing. ;)
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,189
    Yeah, the glaring lights of the Lancer amuse me too...maybe as they try to intimidate, but I don't fall for it. I prefer the look of that old W124 in the background (in the bland off white hue)
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited September 2010
    what you like, fintail, been there, done that many, many times. To each his own, eh?

    I am just thrilled that Toyota is choosing to build this car. Apparently one of the reasons Mr.Toyoda is choosing to build this car (as a coupe and as a 4-dr.sedan) is because he loves to race cars himself. True story!

    I don't know if I'll be getting one of these in just over a year from now but if forced to make a solid guess at it I would say there's about a 90% chance that I will. Mrs iluvmysephia1 will need to be splained all the positive reasons for trading in, why iluv needs this particular car, etc. One large reason, besides the fact that the car is absolutely gorgeous, is that there is a dealer, Dale White Motors, that sells Toyota's right in little 'ole Elko, NV. That is rather huge, and the dealer is only 1/2 mile from my work at NNRHospital. Very cool.

    It will happen, it has hit the obsession stage. Last time this happened it was with the 2010 Suzuki Kizashi, though, and that one faded away quite a bit, so who knows. This one is different because it is just lining up to be so practical for us, great body design and affordable, convenient because a dealer is in our hometown, etc.

    image
    Buy me in a year, coat me with expensive waxes and wash me often

    And this blurb was posted on motortrend.com...

    "The fact that none of these vehicles is still being produced," (Toyota president Akio) Toyoda said of the RWD MR2, Celica, and AE86 Corolla coupe, "makes me, a serious car fan, really sad". The concept's name is a reference to the AE86. However, Tada said the production car may be called Celica."

    This comment was posted by nippononly back in Jan. of 2010 on the Edmunds.com FT-86 thread. So it goes a ways back, and, Toyota has registered the name more recently in NA of FR-S. But I really see this car being called Celica here in the U.S. and Canada. It really has the look of a Celica to me, and I like that name, so...so be it. :)

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited September 2010
    steering wheel and dash. Guys, I am beginning to think that this is indeed the way the FR-S' interior steering wheel and dashboard layout will look like in production. I mean, in the stream of time, and going by the article with the Chief Designer, he was saying that, if anything, the zippers may go. Not what we see in this look. I say bring it on.

    image

    I mean, I'm not in there helping to design this car, but, they're basically done. So I am acquainting myself with my future car's interior. I love this steering wheel. Awesome steering wheel, Mr. Toyoda.

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    It almost takes on an Audi TT-ish look in this view from the back

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • xluxlu Posts: 457
    On the fight today I watched the CNN interview of Donald Trump. Trump gave very sharp opinions on quite a few major topics. On China trade, he said China is eating our lunch with unbalanced trade, we are paying China (by buying their products) to rise up to be our competitor. We should charge 25% tariff on all Chinese made goods to balance the trade. This apply to the Japanese trade also.

    Here's the link: Trump on trade
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited September 2010
    the obvious choice would be by going back to rowing through the gears, and this is what the gearshift will look like on the 2012 Toyota FR-S. Note the red autostart-stop button in the background.

    image

    Guys, it should be said, in light of all of Toyota's recent troubles, that by buying a 2012 Toyota Celica...I...I mean FR-S with the base 6-speed manual tranny, I will be bypassing all of the worries that were encountered with automatic Toyota's regarding SUA, too. Another positive. Manual trannies will not be affected. I mean, how hard is it gonna be for me ta just pop in the clutch and put the gearshift in neutral, and brake and pull over to a stop on the side of the road?

    Answer: not very.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited September 2010
    image

    Here's our 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS in the backlot of our Elko, NV, rental home. Took this picture with my BlackBerry Curve. I had just given her a bath. It was pure joy to clean her up as I have needed to do this for about 3 months. Moving is a pain in the rump, ya know?

    Time to stay put for a while! I snapped this because our Lancer GTS gets Auto Butler wax jobs every 6 months at our Phoenix dealer. This Sept. would've been our 7th one since buying the car. Avondale Mitsubishi didn't send a card for this September's cleaning, so we must be out of them. They have really helped to keep the car cleaner and to fight off a lot of the grime and even paint chipping some '08+ Lancer owners have reported.

    Part of preparing for a new car purchase is looking at what you've got now and taking an honest inventory of your stock.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I was referring to the 19" wheels

    Yeah, I seriously doubt the production model will get those. Probably 17". Subaru doesn't use crazy-big rims in production - the WRX gets 17"s and the STI gets 18"s. No way, no how would the "affordable" sports coupe, two big steps down the price scale, will get bigger rims than the STI.

    Come to think of it, Toyota doesn't employ large rims either, only the Venza has huge rims and they are optional.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Last time this happened it was with the 2010 Suzuki Kizashi, though, and that one faded away quite a bit

    FWIW your instincts were good - I read that the Kizashi was the most satisfying car in one of those surveys. Not in its class, mind you, the #1 car, period.

    I think it is perhaps the most underappreciated car on the market. Suzuki sales have tanked. The Kizashi replaced cheaper models and Suzuki just wasn't able to convince people to pay more (compared to prior Suzukis) for what is essentially a much better car.

    Oh well. So much for products selling on merit.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Hey, iluv, you sure you don't like the Subaru design?

    If you get this credit card, you earn 3% in Subaru Bucks (capped at $500/year), and can use it to purchase any new or CPO model. It's like cash at any dealer. Ford and GM had similar programs, though I'm not sure if they're still active.

    Even better, you can pay for service with them. Accessories, even. You can even buy T-shirts.

    So even if you buy the Toyota model, you could maybe service it at a Subaru dealer, and get that service for free.

    Over the years I've spent a small fortune worth. Spent $400 at a body shop, then insurance reimbursed me, and I kept the $400 cash. We got $1600 off our 2009 Forester, too, so I got a Limited for the cost of a Premium model.

    I have another $1000 accumulated, so I could get a trailer hitch and bike rack, or maybe pay for the 30k and 60k services, all free.

    The cool part is you do NOT have to buy a new car. You can even get new tires at your dealer with them.

    More info:

    https://www.chase.com/online/Credit-Cards/subaru.htm

    I'm so used to getting everything for free that I'm spoiled. I searched for a similar program from Toyota, and they have one, but it's not nearly as good. You only get 1% back in their points system, IIRC. You do get 5% back from purchases at Toyota dealers, so consider that a small discount for service and accessories if you get those at a dealer anyway.

    Not nearly as good, so we passed. But, if you're interested:

    http://www.toyota.com/toyotarewardsvisa/

    For our 2nd car we got a Shell gas card instead, because it offered 5% on all gas purchases, and we spend a lot more on gas than we do at Toyota dealers. That card also offers 1% off everything else.

    Any how, you seem so excited about this new car, I thought I'd share.

    Anyone know if Ford's and GM's programs are still active? I think VW has one too, but don't quote me on that. Subaru's is the best IMHO because all purchases qualify and it's easy-peasy to spend the rewards points.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/23/toyota-leads-the-way-in-2010-motorist-choice-- awards/

    If you thought consumer sentiment for Toyota and Lexus might be wavering [most here certainly did!], think again.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited September 2010
    Any how, you seem so excited about this new car, I thought I'd share.

    Thanks for that information. I will probably look in to it. I am really excited about this new FR-S from Toyota due out in Nov. '11. I am also really glad that there is a Toyota dealer, Dale White Motors, in Elko, NV, here. I will get light service done there and consider things like brake jobs get done by local shops, there's a Les Schwab here and a Bridgestone tire place. Just great to have a dealer in town.

    I will continue to research this car and once I find a good reason not to buy one I'll let you all know. I am pretty keen for what ta look for and so far this car is passing all of my tests with absolute flying colors.

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    Love this "monkey's back-side red" color

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    No Subaru dealer near you?

    I realize how spread out things are, so it wouldn't surprise me if they'd be 50 miles away.
  • Canyon Subaru is only 119 miles north of me in Twin Falls, ID. Not too bad. I'll research some more.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,464
    >because it offered 5% on all gas purchases, and we spend a lot more on gas than we do at Toyota dealers. That card also offers 1% off everything else.

    You might check on that 1%. I think it got dropped to 1/2 % if it's the same card that I have... :sick:
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