Toyota on the mend?

iluvmysephia1 · September 2010

2012 Toyota FT-86 in metallic green

Watching a video a few minute ago someone shooting pics of the car zoomed in on the small little rectangle just north of the rear wheel...it is a small metal emblem that states where the car was designed at...ED2 in Nice, France. You can barely see it in this pic but it's there.

gagrice · September 2010

That must be why it looks like a Citroen or Renault. :shades:

It looks better in red. But getting tiresome to my eyes. It will never be a Porsche.

jimbres · September 2010

I've sure seen a lot of FWD Impala police cars over the past decade.

NYC uses Impalas for street patrol, but AFAIK, their highway patrol division uses Crown Vics. Apart from NYC, I can't think of another department in the Northeast that deploys Impalas. None of the state police departments do.

iluvmysephia1 · September 2010

this car will never be a Porsche. It is already better than any Porsche made. Just like it has been made right now in concept form it bests Porsche at it's best. IMHO, of course. Just looks sportier and...sexier.

2012 Toyota FT-86

But it is the rear view that really sets this car apart from all of the others. No other car besides the 1965 Ford Mustang or the 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS looks this good from the back. But to take it one step further I'm starting to foment the idea inside myself that this 2012 Toyota Celica...I...aahh...I mean 2012 Toyota FT-86...I mean 2012 Toyota FR-S is the best looking bodystyle on any car...ever.

Rear view 2012 Toyota FT-86

Enter Alfred Hitchcock freakout music right about now.

gagrice · September 2010

Here's what the FT86 will look like after the accountants get done with it. For $20k you get THIS:

Didn't Toyota buy Lotus? You could have a real sports car and not a cheapo Japanese imitation. If you ever drove a Lotus you would not consider the others worthy of your time. This car may have been what Toyota was trying to copy with the FT86

Then thinking about the winter season in Elko, this would be about ten cars higher on my list than any sports car.

Who knows it may have been built by a sober Chrysler crew.

gagrice · September 2010

Don't be disappointed if the FT86 is not just another illusion of a Toyota Sports car. They did a very similar model in 2007.

lemko · September 2010

The Philadelphia Police Dept. Highway Patrol uses Hemi Chargers. Philadelphia also uses both the old and new Chevrolet Impalas in addition to Crown Vics.

iluvmysephia1 · September 2010

I don't know why so many in here don't believe that Toyota will put out a bare-bones 2012 FT-86 for only $20,000. They want a cheaper version for the kids that will be wanting them. These cars are going to be really popular in Japan and in the U.S. Deciding on a 4-dr. model was a really smart move for them.

Subaru mechanicals are another plus. The reason I'm saying the car will be a "go" and be priced $20,000 on the low end is because Mr. Toyoda is a car race fan and he personally approves of the car's present concept form. And he feels that Toyota needs a low-end FT-86 for kids to tune. Similar to the Scion idea only this one will definitely stay a Toyota. With Subaru powertrain. What a nice combo for me.

Can't wait for it to come. Now, it is true that it may end up being $22,995 or something like that. If that is true I'm still buying one. But I personally feel that Mr.Toyoda will keep to his idea about not wanting to cross out the young tuners here.

Or old guys like me that appreciate great car design.

This baby just flat out rocks my house like Foghat

ateixeira · September 2010

None of the cards I mentioned have annual fees, but I agree - an annual fee would have me running in the other direction.

windjammer: sorry, I know we went off on a tangent, but I did start by mentioning Toyota's card and incentives.

ateixeira · September 2010

Actually I knew, but wasn't sure this was the right topic.

Unlike the Edge, the Highlander offers a 3rd row, a big selling point for that class, plus now it split-folds.

The hybrid model finally dumped the old 3.3l (3MZ engine) for the 2GR (3.5l V6 - more power, same efficiency).

So it's hybrid+3 rows vs. EcoBoost+myFord touch. May the best crossover win.

Have you ever seen a Toyota Police Cruiser, Toyota Ambulance, Toyota Tow Truck?

Not a fair question - most fleets will buy domestic cars only, so Toyota doesn't really even compete for those contracts.

ateixeira · September 2010

No fair, Gary, the FT-86 concept came out way, wa-aaaaaaaaaaaaaay before the Lotus Elite. I don't think the Elite is officially unveiled until the next auto show, Paris, right? Edit: yes, Paris, which only opens this Thursday.

And that Lotus uses Toyota power, BTW. The 2UR-GSE from the Lexus LF-A.

Don't be disappointed if the FT86 is not just another illusion of a Toyota Sports car. They did a very similar model in 2007

Actually, surprise, but that concept ended up becoming the Lexus LF-A. Look at the C-pillar. Ironically, the donor motor for that Lotus you loved.

For a long time Toyota wasn't sure whether to call it a Toyota or a Lexus. Between 2007 and now, they went with Lexus, no doubt making it easier to justify the premium price.

nippononly · September 2010

Hey iluv, the "new" Scion tC is $18,995. That's a crappy little overweight FWD coupe built on an existing (shared) Toyota platform using existing Toyota powertrains. It was barely updated for '011, it's mostly a 5-year-old design with slightly tweaked styling (and new powertrains borrowed from Camry), yet despite all that it has a base price of $19 grand.

What then for the 2012 Celica, built on modified (unshared) Subaru platforms using the latest and greatest of their engine technology? With RWD and no previous sales history to defray development costs?

We will be very lucky if they get this thing's base price down to $21,995. I expect $24-25K to start.

And by the way, speaking of the tC, way to bunt YET AGAIN, Toyota, on a model refresh. Should we all hold our breath for the "updated" 2011 Corolla coming soon? The Corolla's FMC was only two years ago, and they really didn't change anything at all except to add highly dated former Camry engines to the mix for the higher trim levels.

Still waiting for Toyota to try harder......

ateixeira · September 2010

Don't Scions have less margin to haggle, though?

gagrice · September 2010

I'm just messin' with iluv. Isn't that the Lexus they are selling for $200,000+. I really don't follow the sports cars much anymore. No place to really drive them. That just causes frustration or big traffic fines.

ateixeira · September 2010

Yeah, I figured.

LF-A is not cheap, but I bet they sell out anyway.

ateixeira · September 2010

TOKYO -- Toyota Motor Corp. has lifted companywide restrictions on overtime that were implemented during the global financial crisis, the latest sign of its return to health.

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100927/OEM/100929869/1117#i- xzz10lV98Aue

explorerx4 · September 2010

HA! HA! That wasn't the kind of dirty work I was referring to.

explorerx4 · September 2010

Do you know where the car will be built? That could make a difference as to how it is priced.

iluvmysephia1 · September 2010

how does Toyota Financial view credit card debt? I mean, are they really conservative in their lending practices? Mrs. iluv and I have moved around a lot and as a result we have acquired debt in credit cards. I wonder how strict their lending practices are. My attitude is if I take out a loan then I will make my payments. Period. Yet this stupid housing crisis has wimpified the nation's lenders.

If necessary I may have to go apply for a loan with one of these lenders you see on the net. The same ones that claim you can get a 30-yr. house loan for only 1.5% interest. Yeah, right, but they offer it.

It's gonna be a year from now and we'll have paid off more of the cards by then. We have a really good credit score and we are never late on a payment, they wouldn't need to worry about us making our payment, it's just that I wonder if we would have to pay for all of these morons that took out too much housing debt. Why should someone who is conscientious get screwed over when applying for a loan.

Do you know of any liberal car loan lenders out there? If TFS's is the paranoid type then I'm just gonna secure a third party loan ahead of going to Dale White Toyota's showroom in Nov. of 2011.

explorerx4 · September 2010

Here's where you get what you pay for.
Is there a credit union where you work? If not find one and join it.
Just before you go car shopping next year, get a pre approved loan from them, assuming they will give you one.
If you tell them you are looking to buy an FT-86, they may look at you a little funny.
Assuming approved, when you deal with TFS, you have something to negotiate with.

gagrice · September 2010

When and IF Toyota comes out with the car of your dreams. Don't look for any deals on credit. They will likely be on the high end over 7%. You already got the best advice. Join a Credit Union and Pay off those horrible credit cards FAST. They are killing you and millions of other Americans. Even the CCs with sub 10% interest are bad news.

iluvmysephia1 · September 2010

we will just pay off our credit cards as the year runs down. When the car comes in I'll either have a loan pre-approved in hand and go in with it or just apply for a loan there at the dealership. But I'm basically being screwed because of all the morons that took on too much house and couldn't pay for it.

We are not late on any payments and pay all of our bills and have a really good credit score, and still the lending companies are too hesitant to loan money? On a car note?

Look at it this way. I'm already paying a note down on our Lancer right now and making the payment every month, on time. Now, in Nov.'11 if I go in there and buy a FT-86 for a similar amount as our Lancer, where is the discrepancy? I will demand fair trade-in value and I'll get it. We absolutely wouldn't have any trouble paying the 2012 Toyota FT-86 payment (I am going to haggle until I get the same monthly payment amount) so where is the harm and the foul? We've already established a great history of paying the car payment each and every month. On time! So I'll tell you what it is then.

Every since this stupid housing crisis hit lenders are extra paranoid. So it all boils down to finding a lender who hasn't crapped their pants with worry over people paying. I know they're out there...with the internet I will find a loan that will fit for us.

It is starting to thaw out a little, too...who knows, maybe in a year they will have returned with a little of their sanity at lending once again. There is a lack of financial intelligence going on in America right now as far as lending goes, and you know and I know it's greedy buyers and greedy lenders that have caused it. But it's housing, lenders, not automobiles! Hello? I'm talking a $22,000 loan here! Not a $229,000 house! You'd think they'd want your sound as a pound business! Since when should that screw over someone who borrows and honestly pays back their loan? Get a good and decent grip, lenders.

Worse comes ta worse, I'll just drive and enjoy our '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS. :shades:

chuck1 · September 2010

It's all about your FICO. If they don't want to lend you money, there is more to the story than you are telling us. You indicated credit card debt, if your current that's great. But if your carrying $20,000.00 in credit card debt, with "average income" levels, this is high.

YOUR FICO is YOUR FICO and has nothing to do with morons who haven't paid off their mortgages.

I have a very high credit score and have had MANY LENDERS in the past competing for my business.

As a matter a fact, I just called a lender and asked about rates for a second home (many foreclosure deals out there) and was quoted 4.5% for today's rate on a 30 year fixed. That's with 20% down.

Good luck.

gagrice · September 2010

Every since this stupid housing crisis hit lenders are extra paranoid. So it all boils down to finding a lender who hasn't crapped their pants with worry over people paying.

It took us 3 months to get a loan through on the house we live in. And we had enough cash in the bank to pay it off. It is the Federal government with their tentacles into the banks. If they took bailout money they are stuck with the very strict lending rules. If they had been held to those rules before we would not be in the pickle we are currently in. Save up and pay cash for the car. Give Toyota a couple years to work out the bugs that are going to be in the first model of the FT86. You love your Mitsu. Impulse buying is what gets us in trouble. Ask me I know.

explorerx4 · September 2010

Iluv, agree with gagrace. At worst, wait for the 2012 when the initial bugs are worked out.
Maybe you can lobby Toyota to wait until then to make it in your favorite color.

explorerx4 · September 2010

Find someone who actually sat in the the 3rd row of a Highlander. You will be like Diogenes.

gagrice · September 2010

Seven passengers in anything smaller than a Suburban is just silly. My Sequoia Limited is only 6 passenger rated. I would not want to go far in the back seats. I pulled them out and stored them when the vehicle was brand new. I have a 4 passenger Sequoia.

nippononly · September 2010

Don't Scions have less margin to haggle, though?

That's even worse! If that's the no-haggle price, then comparable MSRP is $1000-2000 higher! And if Toyota thinks the wretched little tC is a $20,995 car, what will they want for their precious new Celica??!!

If Toyota doesn't start to take cars (as opposed to trucks and large crossovers) more seriously in the next few years, they are going to be licking the dirt off Hyundai's and Nissan's shoes by 2015. The FT-86 is a nice way to start, but really all their cars need major updates, and how.

jimbres · September 2010

Explorerx4's advice is excellent: go to a credit union. You'll usually get better terms from a CU than you will from a car maker's captive finance arm.

As good as your credit score may be, you can improve it significantly by paying down all credit card balances to 0. That's because one of the factors on which your score is based is utilization: the percentage of the total credit available to you that you're actually using.

High utilization will ding your score. Suppose you & I each have credit lines totaling $30K. I charge $2K per month but pay each credit card bill in full, thus carrying no balance & paying no interest charges. You're charging the same but you're also carrying a $10K balance, thereby paying interest.

All else being equal, my score will be higher - perhaps considerably higher - than yours because my utilization is significantly lower. Put another way, creditors will be more likely to lend me a large amount of money at a lower interest rate because I use credit in a way that makes them less nervous. That's particularly true in these times of high lender paranoia.

Long story short: zero out those cards ASAP. Then build up your savings balance so that you can make a large down payment.

gagrice · September 2010

All excellent advice. When I think of the thousands of dollars I p***ed away on interest it makes me sick. I justified it when it was a write-off. I wised up when the Feds took that away. I am glad they did. My experience with auto finance especially through the auto makers is far less than desirable. GM had this scam where you paid all the interest in the first couple years. Then your balance was way more than the vehicle was worth. I used the credit union after that. Then started saving for any vehicle and have not made a vehicle payment in 15 years. Lease unless it is a business and auto interest is money down the toilet.

obyone · September 2010

So where are we going with Finance 101?

iluvmysephia1 · September 2010

has been said and it all makes no sense at all. It doesn't answer the credibility question. If someone is currently making a payment and they have credit balances, and, follow me carefully here, they are still making their payment, then why not make that person a new loan? It's the person getting the loan that should be nervous, and if they're not, where's the beef? Wussy lenders.

I'll get a loan for a 2012 Toyota Celica. It won't be very hard, either. All of our cards are being paid down, loans are being paid off, our history is stellar. I still say that morons that took out loans on too much McMansion blow it for all the rest of us that are responsible. If we're ever gonna pull out of this we actually need more people like me that are willing to take on credit, and then methodically pay it off.

It's all about responsibility and past history. Don't let some bunch of dorks that were wayward fork through potential loan customers for the future. That's just bad for business on both ends.

I'll find a way. When there's a will there's a way and I will find it. Watch me from afar, car nuts.

jimbres · September 2010

It's the person getting the loan that should be nervous, and if they're not, where's the beef? Wussy lenders.

Sorry to have to point this out, but you & I don't get to make the rules here. Most lenders subscribe to credit reporting services (Equifax, for example) that use a scoring model (FICO) that penalizes people who carry balances on their credit cards. That's just the way it is.

Still, you'll be OK if you zero out those cards (always a smart move - why pay credit card interest if you don't have to?) & hook up with a credit union, as explorer wisely suggests.

gagrice · September 2010

So where are we going with Finance 101?

I guess this shows that economics is not as boring as Toyota cars.

Though I think some good advice has been laid out for those thinking of buying a new Toyota or any other vehicle.

jimbres · September 2010

I guess this shows that economics is not as boring as Toyota cars.

Ain't that the truth! My wife drives (& loves) a Lexus, so I know that the biggest danger associated with a Toyota product isn't SUA - it's falling asleep behind the wheel.

ateixeira · September 2010

how does Toyota Financial view credit card debt?

To be honest I'm not sure. We didn't apply for the card because other cards had more favorable terms. If Toyota offered 3% back towards free service, I'd reconsider.

The Subaru card is operated by Chase Bank.

ateixeira · September 2010

Even the tiny 3rd rows ones are a big selling point, though. And they increase resale value. Go to the RWTIV thread; they always ask.

Edge did improve more, but there was more room for improvement. It could still stand to lose a few pounds.

Ford and Toyota both are guilty of having too many models in the lineup, so I guess the Edge doesn't need a 3rd row since the Flex and soon the new Explorer will serve that purpose. Not to mention the Escape is close in interior size, so is the Edge even necessary?

Toyota is guilty here, too. RAV4 is a big compact, so it's nearly the size of the small-for-a-3-row-crossover Highlander, and the Venza overlaps with both. Rumor has it the Matrix will grow to fill the slot beneath the RAV4, too.

You gotta wonder if these over-filled lineups cost the automakers more than the incremental sales they create. IMHO the Explorer will make the Flex redundant, and the Edge and Escape could really be merged in to one vehicle, too.

And I'm not sure about Toyota converting the Matrix in to a crossover, either. Let the Highlander grow a little, and keep trucks and unibody crossovers separate. Dump the Matrix and replace it with the Corolla Fielder instead - they would have the small station wagon segment virtually to themselves.

ateixeira · September 2010

AN Headline:

Ford may cut lineup to as few as 20 nameplates, Mulally says
LONDON (Bloomberg) -- Ford Motor Co. may reduce its product lineup to as few as 20 nameplates, CEO Alan Mulally said today. There will be less than 30, on our way to 20 to 25, Mulally said

I'm not alone in thinking some of these lineups have too many redundancies, though I've been saying it the longest. Drop the Ranger or Sport Trac (both?), Flex, Edge or Escape, what else?

Toyota should consider doing the same thing.

Do they need 2 Scion boxes, xD and xB? Just sell one model closer to the original xB and it could fill both those slots. The tC may become redundant when the FT-86 shows up, too, if the price is as low as iluv says.

Drop the Matrix and sell a Corolla Fielder instead. I don't think you have to federalize a wagon variant separately (do you?).

Drop the Fj Cruiser and maybe the Venza, too. How many Venzas do they sell? Plus you have to wonder if Venza is just cannibalizing the Highlander and RAV4.

larsb · September 2010

'Yota leading the league in "Longest Time On Lot" vehicles.

Not good for the Japanese Champ.

Camry on lot 238 days (say what?)

A couple of years ago, small and mid-size sedans flew off sales lots and SUVs gathered dust, amid worries about gas prices.

Now, data from TrueCar.com paints a different picture. Jesse Toprak, True Car's VP of trends and insights, has released a list of 2010 and 2011 models waiting the most and least time on the dealer lots before being sold (click "read more" for lists of top and bottom 10 among 2010s and 2011s at end of post).

The 2010 with least time on the lot before sale is Chevy's Equinox, followed by corporate cousin, the GMC Terrain. Both are small crossover SUVs great for hauling families and soccer gear -- and available gas-saving 4-cylinder engines. They have stayed around for only about two weeks. But that's better than the 2011 models of these two -- they sit only about a week.

At the other end of the scale: 2010 Toyota Camrys took an average 238 days to sell, 223 for the hybrid version. And the Camry Hybrid is also the slowest 2011 seller at 73 days.

Why Toprak says this information is worth money to you:

"Knowing how long a car has been sitting on the dealership lot is valuable information for new car shoppers," says Toprak. "When a consumer knows what is moving and what isn't, they have more bargaining power."

Most shocking is the Camry. It's been among the nation's best-selling cars for years. But the current model is aging and Toyota's safety troubles and recalls -- 15 so far this year for Toyota and Lexus -- have taken a toll. "It's another indication that the recall troubles continue to have lingering negative impact on the best seller from Toyota," says Toprak.

As for SUVs, Toprak says automakers underestimated demand, figuring SUVs were near dead. "They perhaps overcompensated in term of their production cuts," he says. "If you look at fastest-turning inventory, nine out of out (of the 2011s are) some sort of SUV. The love affair for SUVs for consumers is far from over."

After the two Camrys, the 2010 vehicle that has spent the most time on dealers' lots is the 2010 Hyundai Sonata (209 days), a closeout model replaced this summer by a dramatically different and well-reviewed 2011 model. Then comes 2010 Ford Mustang (202 days). Ford has given its updated 2011 replacement some breakthrough powerplants: a 305 hp. V-6 that gets 31 mpg on the highway and a new 412 hp., 5.0-liter V-8 rated 26 mpg highway.

Toprak's lists:

2010 least time till sale (days on lot)

1. 2010 Chevrolet Equinox (15)
2. 2010 GMC Terrain (16)
3. 2010 Toyota 4Runner (18)
4. 2010 Toyota Highlander (19)
5. 2010 Nissan Pathfinder (19)
6. 2010 Toyota FJ Cruiser (21)
7. 2010 Honda Fit (29)
8. 2010 Subaru Forester (31)
9. 2010 Nissan Maxima (33)
10. (tie) 2010 Nissan Altima Hybrid, 2010 Ford Fusion (36)

2010 most time till sale (days on lot)

1. 2010 Toyota Camry (238)
2. 2010 Toyota Camry Hybrid (223)
3. 2010 Hyundai Sonata (209)
4. 2010 Ford Mustang (202)
5. 2010 Scion xD (197)
6. 2010 Mazda Tribute (151)
7. 2010 Subaru Legacy (148)
8. 2010 Jeep Commander (142)
9. 2010 Scion xB (135)
10. 2010 Volkswagen Touareg (113)

2011 least time till sale (days on lot)

1. 2011 Honda Accord (6)
2. 2011 Ford Escape Hybrid (6)
3. 2011 Ford Edge (7)
4. 2011 Toyota Tundra CrewMax (7)
5. 2011 Chevrolet Equinox (7)
6. 2011 GMC Terrain (8)
7. 2011 Toyota Sequoia (8)
8. 2011 Land Rover Range Rover Sport (8)
9. 2011 Nissan Rogue (9)
10. 2011 Audi Q7 (9)

2011 most time till sale (days on lot)

1. 2011 Toyota Camry Hybrid (73)
2. 2011 Volvo C70 (69)
3. 2011 Volvo C30 (63)
4. 2011 Mercedes-Benz SL550 (61)
5. 2011 Mitsubishi Eclipse (57)
6. 2011 Toyota Camry (50)
7. 2011 Infiniti M37 (43)
8. 2011 Kia Sorento (40)
9. 2011 Jaguar XF Premium (42)
10. 2011 BMW 335D (38)

ateixeira · September 2010

Did you notice THREE Toyotas are indeed flying off the lots and in the 2010 top 10? FJ, 4Runner, and Highlander.

Two make the slow-selling list but really they're the same model anyway. Correction: I didn't notice the Scions, but Camry should count as one not two.

Not to mention just last week I shared a link as to how NA production was up by some astounding amount. Simple - they built too many Camrys, so it's an over-supply issue.

Overall you look at the list, and Toyotas are indeed flying off the lots.

ateixeira · September 2010

Toyota

Aug 10
123,488

Aug 09
88,760

up 39%

YTD 10
836,315

YTD 09
507,080

up 65%

Overall North American output is up 34% for the month of August and up 61%. Good news, and Toyota managed to outpace both those numbers.

Days' inventory is about supply and demand, supply being up 65% is the key factor.

larsb · September 2010

Who you accusing of bias?

truecar.com ?

I'm just posting what's in the news.

Did you notice FOUR 'Yotas in the "slow off the lot list?"

It's not bias if it's just a list of facts. It was not an opinion piece - it was just a "number of days on the lot" report.

ateixeira · September 2010

Edit: to me, IMHO, Camry + Camry Hybrid should count as one model, not two.

ateixeira · September 2010

Oh, and if you include 2011, Toyota has FIVE models flying off the lots.

larsb · September 2010

My post title was just my interpretation of the story.

These 4 Toyotas, which were in my earlier post:

2010 most time till sale (days on lot)

1. 2010 Toyota Camry (238)
2. 2010 Toyota Camry Hybrid (223)
3. 2010 Hyundai Sonata (209)
4. 2010 Ford Mustang (202)
5. 2010 Scion xD (197)
6. 2010 Mazda Tribute (151)
7. 2010 Subaru Legacy (148)
8. 2010 Jeep Commander (142)
9. 2010 Scion xB (135)
10. 2010 Volkswagen Touareg (113)

ateixeira · September 2010

OK, I'll give you that, Scion is sort of a subsidiary.

So what's the score?

3 slow sellers. Camry, xA, xB.

5 hot sellers. FJ, 4Runner, Highlander, Tundra, Sequoia.

And that is after having produced 329,235 more cars in North America than they did last year.

That is not a bad result!

larsb · September 2010

Yep, it's not "sky is falling" results. but I'd bet 'Yota is not used to being in the "longest days on lots" in ANY category.

I'd have to interpret this as 'Yota "not over the hump yet" in recovering from the recall and the bad pub from the related publicity.

ateixeira · September 2010

You know what, I think I got angry at the wrong person. You're right.

I'm sorry.

I'm just tired of slanted reporting. So sick of it.

The media is just trying to sell papers. So they'll spin a story any way they can to get more hype and increase sales.

How they can look at that list and ignore the 5 Toyotas on the hot-sellers list, all high margin models by the way (!), and focus only on the Camry, while ignoring huge increases in production in North America, just set me off.

The Camry and Scions are low-profit models. The hot 5 are all high-profit high-margin trucks and crossovers.

I'll switch to de-caf. Promise.

larsb · September 2010

Hey, no harm, no foul.....:)

ateixeira · September 2010

I've edited my posts to correct the fact that I overlooked the Scions.

Sorry, de-caf for me from now on.

Toyota on the mend?

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