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Toyota on the mend?

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  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,198
    Shoot, if these Hilux trucks are so tough and so respected by our enemies, why can't we get them here instead of these sissy poseur-trucks 'Yota sends us?
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    "ALL YOUR TRUCKS ARE BELONG TO US" :shades:
  • fho2008fho2008 Posts: 393
    edited October 2010
    lemko you'd only buy GM anyway, shouldnt you be watching MTV?
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,931
    they probably don't pass the safety and emissions requirements here.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited October 2010
    of the 2012 Scion FR-S.

    For instance...one like this.

    image

    Unless this is some crap like a GM car when I test drive it in November of 2011, this will no doubt be my first Toyota product purchased. My son just sold the only Toyota a member of my family has ever bought, that being a 1987 Toyota Camry. I tell ya what, it was old, with 165,000 miles (that we know of) but it kept running, strong and solid for my son. He sold it to a young couple in little 'ole Willcox, AZ, for a tidy sum of $200. I am coming around full circle to liking and respecting Toyota products.

    Come on, Mr. Toyoda will see to it personally that these cars are going to be built correct the first time and will kindly blow away any and all competition because he wants to restore some respect in real carbuilding to the brand. Watch and appreciate.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited October 2010
    If this recent report is correct, Toyota has green-lighted a sedan variant of the FT-86.

    While details are scarce, Carsguide is reporting the sedan will be virtually identical to the coupe. This means we can expect a naturally-aspirated 2.0-liter Boxer engine, a six-speed manual transmission, ADVICS brakes, and rear-wheel drive. Eventually, the car could be outfitted with Subaru's 3.6-liter H6 engine and a hybridized Boxer powerplant.

    According to sources familiar with the matter, the sedan is a "safety net" in case the coupe fails to be a sales success.

    Set to go on sale in 2013, the FT-86 sedan would be positioned as a premium model. It would compete with the BMW 1/3-Series and the VW Golf GTI / Audi

    Read more: http://www.worldcarfans.com/110090328223/toyota-ft-86-four-door-sedan-variant-ru- - - - - - moured#ixzz12lHkGKE9

    FYI-the only tadbit of information I could find in that article that jumps out at me as being blatantly incorrect is that the car will go on sale in November of 2011, not 2013. That's preposterous. :shades:

    Toyota has never denied that the 2012 Toyota FR-S will go on sale in November of 2011. Duh! Come on people, stay with me here!

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    the base price of the HS250H is $34K?? Holy crap!

    Not so fast...

    http://www.insideline.com/lincoln/mkz-hybrid/2011/2011-lincoln-mkz-hybrid-first-- drive.html

    $35,180 for a Lincoln MKZ Hybrid. And that's a Ford Fusion clone, while the HS is at least a unique model.

    I'm not a fan of either, but Lexus' price is competitive.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    The HS250H is more of a Camry Hybrid clone than the MKZ-H is a Fusion clone. But I get it - this is the going price for vehicles of this sort.

    I still say the CT200H had better start under $30K or they won't sell ANY.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I disagree - the HS uses an entirely different body, which shares not a single body panel with the Camry (not even the roof).

    It uses just the powertrain from the Camry hybrid.

    The MKZ-H shares both the body and the powertrain with the Ford Fusion hybid. Basically it's a Fusion hybrid dressed in a $7000 tuxedo.

    There is much more similarity with the Ford/Lincon duo.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I still say the CT200H had better start under $30K or they won't sell ANY

    Let's look at its primary rival...the A3 TDI 5 door:

    http://green.autoblog.com/2009/09/03/audi-sets-price-on-2010-a3-tdi-at-29-950/

    You're right on target...I bet they come in right where Audi prices their green 5 door. It won't be any lower, and IMHO the A3 is very small, tight inside. I bet the CT is roomier. Again, not my type of car, but a prospective Lexus buyer would probably pick a hybrid over a diesel and the extra space will likely matter to them.

    Let's remember that pricing has more to do with the market and competition than it does with the actual cost of production.

    Having said that, the whole idea of an upscale hybrid has never really taken off. This may outsell the A3 TDI but it won't even touch Prius volume.
  • xluxlu Posts: 457
    edited October 2010
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Of course it will never end, recalls are a routine part of any automotive manufacturer. Duh.

    Can you think of any that have never had recalls?
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited October 2010
    even these latest recalls don't scare me away from chasing one of these babies in Nov. of 2011.

    image

    Bring this pup on Toyota, in Nov. of 2011, in 6-speed manual transmission form, Japanese monkey-back red, power w's, l's and m's, kickin' 500-watt stereo with 10" subwoofer in the trunk, A/C, 4 doors and $21,000 price tag.

    And I will test drive one. And get back to you on that. The recalls are just that, recalls. Better than not fixing the problems, right?

    BTW-the latest idea is that Toyota will sell the low end model, the one for $21,000, as a 2012 Scion FR-S. Due to Scion dealers in November of 2011. Stay tuned for the changes as we find them all out.

    Oh, I almost forgot. Toyota will change the bodystyle of the FR-S just a tad in time for the Scion sales lots. I'd love to be a fly on the wall a the design house working on this right now. I'll git back to ya.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Wanted to see if you've been following the latest on the Volt...

    Iron block?
    Premium fuel? Seriously?
    Gas engine provides propulsion?

    Is there an active thread for that topic? If so I'll move the discussion there.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Volt forum is in the Hybrid Cars area.
  • xluxlu Posts: 457
    Of course it will never end, recalls are a routine part of any automotive manufacturer

    It's a routine for an automaker to have recalls; however it's not a routine for anyone to have massive recalls one after another.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited October 2010
    Look at how many cars they manufacture...massive volume.

    Not to mention the fuel pump issue was already discussed.
  • xluxlu Posts: 457
    edited October 2010
    Look at how many cars they manufacture...massive volume.

    Last year Toyota produced 7.2 million cars worldwide; in the last 12 month they have recalled more than 11 million cars....
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    According to the news this morning, this recall brings the total to 10 million plus for vehicles recalled by Toyota in the last year.

    A very high volume, even for such a high-volume manufacturer.

    And has anyone besides me noticed that more and more now, these recalls are affecting Lexus models?

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    Well, we can niggle over this and agree to disagree, but the platform and guts are the same, and reviews of both read the same: boring, quiet ride, dead steering, little to nothing in the way of handling, and similar fuel economy.

    People will view this as a good way to spend $10K more on a Camry Hybrid, in order to get the Lexus badge.

    And what ever happened to Toyota's promise that the next-gen ES would NOT be a continuation of Camry cloning? Now we are seeing hints of the next-gen model, and it is not RWD as promised, and in fact looks a lot like another Camry clone.

    Toyota will end up diluting the effectiveness of the Lexus line just like GM had done to Cadillac prior to the Art & Science rejuvenation ten years ago, if it continues on this path.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • ben66ben66 Posts: 243
    edited October 2010
    Do the Maths folks : toyota's worldwide volume is around +- 8 million or so. Their total recalls ? More than 10 miilion so far.

    Nissan and Renault combined sold around 6 million or so. Their total recalls ? At most a few hundred thousands.

    Honda is similar, total sales worldwide around 3 million or so. Their total recalls around hundreds of thousands too.

    Not far behind are the often maligned by jd power brands like VW, etc whose worldwide volumes are also in the millions and yet their no, of recalls are also relatively " normal ".

    So really jd power's, consumer report's " toyota no.1 bias " reports really make a mockery of reality today and mocks common sense. I would really put toyota at the bottom of the quality rankings. The numbers tell their own story.

    Nobody comes even close to toyota. Forget about toyota decades ago, today, they have SERIOUS PROBLEMS deep inside the way they do business and the way they put profits ahead of quality.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    There's no doubt they've had a huge number of recalls lately, but they're fixing those issues, and in the meantime Lexus lost how much market share?

    None.

    So customers seem to think they're taking care of it, else they'd leave for other brands.

    Read the other headlines, folks. Ford has failed to fix 8.4 million out of the 14 million vehicles they recalled for risk of engine fires.

    Do they get a pass? Because they're domestic? Maybe they have good lobbyists to keep NHTSA off their backs?

    Oh, no biggie, it's just an engine fire.

    Stop, drop, and roll.

    That'll buff right out.

    These Fords are HOT I tell ya.

    AN wrote:

    even after the largest U.S. safety recall ever

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101021/RETAIL05/101029958/1- 254#ixzz136Xu96Bc
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    They are Mending, all right.

    Mending all their broken cars with recalls.
    :lemon: :lemon: :lemon: :lemon: :lemon:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Meanwhile Ford is NOT mending all their broken cars.

    Which would bother you more? Be honest.

    Car-B-Q?

    Or a small brake fluid leak? The sensor actually works and warns you, so it wasn't ever a serious problem, even.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Yep, that Ford story is pretty amazing. Seems like after the Ford Exploder problems, Ford might have learned a lesson, but maybe not.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Thanks for acknowledging that.

    It's a sad environment, really, when fixing something is seen as a bad thing. I've never seen recalls as bad, per se. Sure, they acknowledge a problem, but they also acknowledge a problem.

    You see the difference.

    Toyota called me in to inspect the chain that secures the spare tire, a just-in-case fix that wasn't even necessary. People see that and they're not going to have the reaction people here are having, far from it.

    They'll go in to the dealer at the next scheduled service, check out some new cars, and drive home happy. No biggie.

    Meanwhile, if that rear axle on your Ford literally breaks in half, and you don't live in the snow belt?

    Sorry! No recall if you're not in the snow belt.

    That makes Ford's recall totals look better. Ironic, no?

    Would it make you feel better as an owner, though?

    It's just a rear axle breaking in half, no big deal. Shoot, the engine will probably catch fire first, so it's not even your primary concern!

    Who cares, Ford has fewer recalls this year!

    Toyota is under the microscope and will fix anything and everything that goes wrong. Is that such a bad thing?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    edited October 2010
    Too many things going wrong, that's the "bad thing". And it's always with third-party parts.

    Honda is recalling half a million vehicles today for the same problem - defective brake master cylinders - that Toyota recalled yesterday. Odysseys and something else, some of them 6 years old already. It seems they got their brake master cylinders from the same place Toyota did......

    The larger lesson learned, I think, is that the Japanese have officially joined the domestics in the club of automakers that have cost-cut too much - they have gone beyond the fat and even the flesh, and have started cutting bone. Recalls like Honda's today and Toyota's yesterday are proof positive as far as I'm concerned.

    And with the giant profit margins on Lexus vehicles, you would think they could have avoided that pitfall at least with the Lexus line.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,465
    toyota advertises how their 2007 toyota camry is better quality than a 2010 Ford Focus and something else. Just wonderful, those cars are.

    If you overlook the little problems of public recalls. And then there's the braking problem when the engines are running away. But the runaway engines just didn't happen, really, because it was a sticking floor mat or an accelerator pedal in the wrong place instead of computers and electronics gone wild.

    And then we have brakes leaking fluid and posters want to talk about FORD?

    GIMME a break. It was bad enough before toyota applied their fixes to enough cars that runaway computers aren't happening now when nobody would 'man up' to the reality of what toyota had been doing for years with hiding reality and using the NHTSA rules to misrepresent the runaaway reports. Now it's Ford's fault that toyota's master cylinders are leaking?
  • xluxlu Posts: 457
    edited October 2010
    in the meantime Lexus lost how much market share? None

    Why do you refer only to Lexus market share? Look at the much bigger picture of Toyota; their market share dropped from 16.6% in the first 9 months of 2009 to 15.2% in the first 9 months of this year. Can you explain it?

    Ford...even after the largest U.S. safety recall ever

    Ford recalled 14 million cars for switch in a period of 10 years; Toyota already recalled 14 million cars in one year; that's already a record and you can bet on that they would refresh their own record in no time soon.
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