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Toyota on the mend?

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The Lexus cop killer was a fiery example that got lots of press coverage. Same with the faked GM truck explosion. What's fair for one should be fair for all. Face it Toyota had a good run. They have cut corners to be number one and we are seeing the results. They just got what they had coming to them with all the negative press. GM also suffered for their cheapening of their cars and trucks. I would not buy another GM truck because of the poor quality of the 2005 GMC hybrid PU I bought. Right now I don't see any vehicle offered in the USA that tempts me.

    That makes it wide open playing field for my cash. My next SUV will be slightly smaller than the Sequoia and get at least twice the mileage, or I just keep what I have.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Big difference is that was the one deadly crash in a Toyota. Plus, reenactments all around showed different results.

    GM managed to turn Dateline in to the "bad guy" and have avoided taking any action, but the fires kept on, and outboard fuel tanks are still vulnerable.

    I actually agree about them growing too fast and cutting corners, especially quality control checks.

    Once they do get all their factories up to speed, though, the real challenge will be facing tough new competitors like Hyundai.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My next SUV will be slightly smaller than the Sequoia and get at least twice the mileage

    This might fit the bill:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/10/new-chevrolet-trailblazer-revealed-in-dubai-w- -video/

    It's based on the new Colorado, and is powered by a 2.8l diesel.

    I'll go out on a limb and guess that you won't like the styling, just a hunch, but it is an old school body-on-frame truck.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    I thought of this when I saw the pic :D

    image
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I guess there are only so many ways to style a full-sizer. :D
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You are right the styling leaves me cold. Oddly enough the old Trailblazers were my favorite rental vehicles when I spent a lot of time in Hawaii. This new one has the same goofy lines used in the Mercedes ML. The 2.8L diesel is about the right size in my opinion. I could probably get used to the styling if I was getting 35-40 MPG and a full days driving range. Not likely to be sold here.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Also, Ford has had quality issues with newer transmissions and with MyFord Touch. My co-worker had to replace the entire trans on her Fiesta.

    Aw c'mon juice - a focus group of 1 on the Fiesta does not make a quality issue.

    As for MyFord Touch - it's not quality problem. It works just like it's designed. It's just not well designed. bTW- I have MyFord Touch on the Explorer and yes it really could be improved but it works well about 75% of the time. The biggest issue is the old "RTFM" manual quandry. It's a big book.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not likely to be sold here

    A shame, I like the new Colorado, and it would be the only small truck with a diesel. Heck, they don't even have a non-HD truck with a diesel here, do they?

    It would have the market wide open, all to itself.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    a focus group of 1 on the Fiesta does not make a quality issue

    Not just hers, there were 2 at the time the Ford rep had done, and that's right when it had come out.

    Then TrueDelta reports came out with poor scores for the new Fiesta.

    Now Consumer Reports comes out with similar results.

    Triple whammy. Hopefully just a v1.0 issue, however.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The new Ford Ranger with diesel is selling all over the World. Ford will not sell it here as it would erode their F150 sales. And it passes Euro6 emissions from what I read. Ford is closing down the Ranger factory here.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bingo - that's just it. They're afraid it would cannibalize their cash cow.

    F150 seems like such overkill for the average harry homeowner needs, though.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The crew cab has satisfied the sedan, SUV and PU crowd. I really like the new T6 Ranger.

    http://www.change.org/petitions/bring-the-t6-ford-ranger-to-the-us
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    May be overkill, but dealers can't keep the Raptor on the lot. This thing MSRPs at $43,5 too.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    What amazes me is Ford finally has a midsized truck to compete with the Taco and Frontier, and they don't seem to want it. Unless they think they are selling as many trucks as they possibly can right now. Ford may be putting a lot of faith in the Eco Boost engine. I am not impressed with what I have read.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They sell a ton of small pickups in Brazil, where gas is $7 plus, and diesel costs about half (though not the low-sulfur variety).

    My dad daily drives a Chevy Blazer diesel, but they have S10s as well.

    Manual shifter, no less.

    It competes with the Hilux and a Mitsubishi pickup.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,303
    Check the numbers on how many Taco's and Frontier's are sold every month.
    It's a pimple on the butt of overall pickup truck sales.
    A Raptor with a built in generator would be ideal for me the next time we get over a foot of snow and lose power for 10 days. ;)
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    One big reason that's true in the USA is because there isn't much advantage in fuel economy. ~2 mpg, hardly worth downsizing for.

    A small diesel truck could have real advantages, which is what Gary's asking for.

    F series sells tons but let's also keep in mind that really represents several different trucks (150, 250, 350, 650, probably three dozen variations).
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    This is a very strange incident and not really the fault of Toyota in any way. However it does show that a small car like a Scion is no match for a large car in a head on collision.

    Teen killed in crash; dad dies in separate wreck

    An Alpine man whose teenage son was killed Thursday in an accident that also injured his wife crashed his own car on the same highway hours later and died, authorities said.

    The father’s crash is being investigated as a deliberate act, “a suicide,” California Highway Patrol Officer Brian Pennings said.

    Sambhi’s wife, Natalia, 55, and Dev were involved in a single-vehicle crash while heading west on Interstate 8 at Dunbar Lane just before 7 a.m., Pennings said.

    She was driving a black Toyota Tacoma pickup that witnesses said may have blown a tire before it veered off the freeway and overturned, Pennings said.

    The pickup came to rest on Old Highway 80, where Dev was ejected and died, Pennings said.

    Officers went to the hospital and found that the husband was neither combative nor violent. The officers contacted hospital security and left, Hassen said.

    Then, about 1:15 p.m., the CHP was notified of an erratic driver in a Toyota Scion who, minutes later, was going the wrong way on eastbound I-8, east of Dunbar Lane. The driver was Sunil Sambhi, Pennings said.

    Pennings said the driver of a Mercury Grand Marquis swerved to avoid the oncoming Scion, but Sambhi deliberately steered into the same lane. The two vehicles collided head-on.

    Sambhi was airlifted to a hospital, where he later died.

    The driver of the Mercury, a 44-year-old Imperial County man, was traveling with his 19-year-old son. They both were hospitalized with moderate injuries, Pennings said.

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/nov/10/one-person-killed-east-county-cra- sh/

    What is really scary is that is the stretch of highway I travel whenever I head into town. How do you avoid a nut that wants to kill himself? Best to be in the biggest vehicle you can afford gas for.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tell the kid to fasten his seatbelt ... I bet that was survivable.

    Poor guy probably felt guilty.

    But yeah, drive a Sonic head-on in to an Volvo S80 and the same thing would happen.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Maybe I should just bite the bullet and get an International CXT. Let the nuts in the Scions bounce off. I am sure the kid died needlessly. If it was a blowout as witnesses claim it behooves us to keep a close watch on our tires as well. One place I never go cheapo. I think they were part of our local Chaldean community. I will find out today when we go to the grocery store. They own a lot of our local businesses.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited November 2011
    One word: Unimog!

    In the S-class wreck that killed Princess Diana only one person was wearing a seat belt, and only one person survived.

    Not a coincidence.

    Car makers put all this effort in safety engineering, but passengers have to buckle up to take advantage of it all.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    A small diesel truck could have real advantages, which is what Gary's asking for.

    Mahindra has been threatening to sell one here for the past 4 years or so. I wonder why they haven't followed through?? PERHAPS THE MARKET IS TOO SMALL??
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    My guess is Mahindra has not passed the EPA emissions tests. Same reason Honda gave up on selling diesels here. They could not pass the test. So far only the Germans are smart enough to build a diesel that can pass the CA smog requirements. And they are selling very well.

    I think Toyota is missing a good bet with their diesel PU trucks that dominate many markets in the World. What they send US are gas hogs.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Actually Mahindra hadn't even submitted paperwork to the EPA or NHTSA for certification. I'm guessing they've decided the market is too small for an expensive (expected base price was over $22K0, small pickup in the US and didn't bother wanting to get it to pass the testing.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Finding dealers may have been problematic as well. I think there were lawsuits with the distributor. I would really like the Ford T6 with the 2.2L diesel. May be the best mid sized truck in the World.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Can Your Midsized do This?
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Maybe I should just bite the bullet and get an International CXT. Let the nuts in the Scions bounce off. I am sure the kid died needlessly. If it was a blowout as witnesses claim it behooves us to keep a close watch on our tires as well.

    Wasn't somebody killed when ejected? People aren't usually ejected if they are wearing seat belts.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,138
    It was definitely a seatbelt issue in that case.

    And in 2011 some idiots still claim mandatory seatbelts infringe on their freedom.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Mahindra is weak sauce, I'd like to see one of the big boys try a small diesel pickup.

    Also, wouldn't it be subject to a 25% chicken tax? Without it that 22k would actually only be $17.6k, about the price of a B segment car nowadays.

    So it could be done, but build it within NAFTA, to keep the prices competitive.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Impressive in more ways than one. Torque is the obvious one, but look how it manages traction as well. Very little wheelspin.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Actually I was incorrect. Mahindra did get EPA approval back in August of 2010. Then they were sued by Global Vehicles which is the importer for taking to long. They claim Mahindra was trying to wait them out so they could get out of the agreement.

    IIRC, they had about 300 dealers signed up.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Mahindra is weak sauce, I'd like to see one of the big boys try a small diesel pickup.

    But as you noted earlier, none of the big guys will because the pricing, fuel economy, et al are all too close.

    Also, wouldn't it be subject to a 25% chicken tax? Without it that 22k would actually only be $17.6k, about the price of a B segment car nowadays.

    So it could be done, but build it within NAFTA, to keep the prices competitive.

    It's a chicken and egg thing. Do you really think Mahindra would build a plant here when the market is totally unproven??
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm thinking some one who already sells a compact pickup here, maybe Nissan. It's not like they sell many Titans.

    Does Nissan have a clean diesel?
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Keep in mind that Mahindra can do it for the theoretical $17K because they are making in in India. Build it anywhere else and it's a $28 unit after the chicken tax.

    Nissan does have a clean diesel but it's used in its class 4 to class 7 trucks they import and market under the UD Trucks brands. The Frontier is built in Smyrna, TN along with the Pathfinder and XTerra. The Titan and Armada - and now the NV - are built in Canton, MS. I don't think they can build them on the same lines.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The idea is to build it in a place that avoids the chicken tax. Mexico, perhaps.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Also, wouldn't it be subject to a 25% chicken tax? Without it that 22k would actually only be $17.6k, about the price of a B segment car nowadays.

    The Chicken tax is going away over the next several years as a part of the new FTA signed by Obama. I think a lot of small PU trucks are built in Thailand. I would imagine they will be coming here if they can pass emissions.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    And in 2011 some idiots still claim mandatory seatbelts infringe on their freedom.

    Actually, both helmet and seatbelt laws DO infringe on freedom.

    Also, why do we allow dangerous sports like jetskiing, scuba diving, and skydiving? Those kill people, too. And if you wore a helmet while driving, you could save x more people per year. Such danger! Let's legislate to fix all those dangerous situations!

    But you won't find ME driving without my seatbelt.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You forgot other big killers. Buses, Trains, Motorcycles and Bicycles have NO seat belts. How about outlawing Skiing that is what killed Sonny Bono. Just too many dangerous activities allowed. Especially when you consider the tax payers will be on the hook to cover their medical expenses starting next year. :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,138
    Freedom to do what, be an idiot? If my healthcare and insurance premiums are impacted by people who refuse to buckle up or wear a helmet, then I say when you crash and are found to not be using them, your coverage is voided.

    Funny that these things aren't an issue in places that are eating our collective lunch today.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/11/toyota-releases-extra-tough-land-cruiser-gx-f- or-australia/

    Swee-eet!

    Steelies, snorkel, vinyl floor mats, twin turbo diesel.

    All it needs is a manual transmission and I'm moving down under.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    edited November 2011
    Freedom to do what, be an idiot? If my healthcare and insurance premiums are impacted by people who refuse to buckle up or wear a helmet, then I say when you crash and are found to not be using them, your coverage is voided.

    Agreed.

    Think of how many smokers' lung cancer treatments and heart attacks we are covering through Medicare.

    Their Toyotas will last longer than they do (to keep it on topic :shades: ).
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I would love to spend time looking around Australia. I wonder if they will be in a rental fleet. I don't know about driving on the WRONG side of the road?
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    It looks really good. Much nicer looking than the Avalon.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I like the fact that the Land Cruiser can still be a utilitarian vehicle, a REAL SUV, and not just an accessory for celebrities.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I seriously considered buying a 20+ year old Land Cruiser diesel when I ended up with the Sequoia. They are available in Canada and sometimes resold here. Funny thing is you can buy a smoke belching old diesel and not a new diesel that would be much cleaner burning. This is a cool one. Just what you need:

    http://www.outbackimports.ca/sale/HD-2963.html#HD-2963-01
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,138
    Or an accessory for high maintenance stay at home types, or their oh so respectable other halves. Do celebs drive our bloated luxo LCs?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think they're in to the new "flavor of the month", and have since moved on to Escalade, Range Rovers, or whatever other design is newer.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,138
    I'm not a big celeb follower, I just notice what the local nonworking spoiled "wives" drive (as I have to dodge them when I am both on foot and on the road) - I live in a good place to be a Rover etc dealer, and everyone one of those Evoques will sell. Of course, every RX GX etc sells too.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Me neither, unless one of them wrecks an exotic car and it hits the mainstream news.

    This site has a whole slew of 'em:

    http://wreckedexotics.com/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Supply still short, 5th lowest:

    http://www.autoobserver.com/car-data-center/days-to-turn/by-manufacturer-days/

    Incentives for Scion, Toyota, Lexus still low:

    http://www.autoobserver.com/car-data-center/tci-true-cost-of-incentives/by-make-- tci/
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