Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Toyota on the mend?

1…300301303305306…319

Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,140
    When was it really a true sports sedan though? Maybe E39? Or E28? E60 doesn't seem sporty to me. New one is dulled up, but sells like hotcakes as did the softish Bangle E60. I don't know if the average affluent aging customer wants too much sport rather than the image of such.

    I drove a 6 cylinder F11 528i Touring in Germany. Not an off the line speed demon, but a good Autobahn cruiser.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I wasn't crazy about the current IS even when it was new. There's too much sheet metal under the C-pillar, it made the car look heavier than it is. The old IS looked smaller, lighter. I'm sure it was.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The G leases well, though. Residuals are high despite its age.

    So even if you're shopping lease prices, a G37 would easily have fallen in the same price range as the others in the comparison.

    Any how, $50k for a 4 banger 3 series is sheer lunacy. And it won? :confuse:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,140
    I thought it seemed very modern when new, but that was more or less 7 years ago now. It's also less than roomy feeling inside, and I suspect 80% of sales are IS250... sold to spoiled daddys girls and middle aged yawners who might even be duller than those who buy the competition. The model needs some new life and yesterday.

    Old one was certainly a size smaller.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,140
    edited April 2012
    Subsidized residuals at end of lease, or actual sales? Resale percentage might be good because it doesn't have so far to fall. Has to be a low margin vehicle, one that also needs an update now.

    50K for that car is insane, just like you can easily build a 335d to virtually 60K - I can get a nicely equipped E350 Bluetec (or a nice new GS) for that money. Which would I rather drive?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Only a few very competitive models can last 7 years and not seem dated. Very rare.

    For $50k I'd drop $35k on a Genesis as a trip/highway car and than another $15k on some city car to commute in.

    $50k is a condo not a compact car.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,140
    Does it really not seem dated though? It's looking old to me, but maybe just because I know how old it is.

    For 50, I can't imagine the possibilities. Maybe 30K for a show car (AMG SEC), 15K for a road car (W124 500E), 5K for a commuter (old diesel). Makes new cars look silly.

    50K is a down payment on a condo in my area ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe in Panama. They say it has the cost of living of the USA in the 1950s. :surprise:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited April 2012
    LOL @ 298 lost Prius...

    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/25/hundreds-of-5-year-old-municipal-vehicles-fou- nd-in-miami-that-we/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited May 2012
    2nd month with double digit increases. Ford and GM were down, though the overall market was up 2%:

    http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/prnewswire/press_releases/California/201- 2/05/01/LA98291

    Funny thing is, supply for some models is short:

    http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2012/04/the-list-last-months-20-quickes- - t-selling-cars-.html#more

    4 in the top 9 are Toyota/Lexus.

    Prius, CT, Yaris, GS, and Highlander did well.

    2011 was down 1.7% in part due to the tsunami, so this represents a real gain even over the 2010 figures.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    image

    Beat out both the Civic and the Corolla. :surprise:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think they include Prius + Prius c + Prius V in that total.

    Then again, Ford groups the F-150 with the massive diesel chassis cabs.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    edited May 2012
    15% of all Toyota sales were to fleets last month, a new high for Toyota, which they explain by saying(quoting Bob Carter) that they cancelled all fleet orders last year due to the tsunami so now they are catching up and will be through early May, during which period fleet sales will approach 20%.

    Not good, but they say thay are targeting a fleet sales rate of 6% for the remainder of the year.

    Funny thing is that many of the top-selling Toyota models (except Yaris) are mostly not sold to fleets. Personally, I think something is very wrong (with the Corolla) when Prius outsells Corolla.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    And Corolla outsold the Civic, so the Civic is even worse?

    I see that Honda is spending more on rebates than Toyota, and Toyota's rebate spending is quite low.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Prius includes 3 models, though.

    Remember gas hit $4.20 or so, at least around here.

    Ironically it's down below $4, so demand should start to cool. Sales will still be strong because prices will come back down to earth. Go see in the CCB thread what a used Prius was selling for - crazy money.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited May 2012
    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ee9956a/22281#MSG22281

    Why is this relevant?

    Because it looks like they used the Toyota-influenced FA20 block for this, so it gets direct injection, twin scroll turbo, etc. They also engineered a CVT with 8 ratios for the paddle shifter in Sport # mode.

    I think that stealthy non-Outback GT wagon looks great, personally.

    Any how, it's likely the Scion FR-S will get some form of this new engine, though I'm not sure it it'll make the full 300hp.

    Looks like Toyota is helping Subaru to meet CAFE standards. The current STI gets 17/23 on premium, not exactly a Prius. :D

    I bet the new one jumps way up to 20/29 or so. In the video you see a Legacy GT wagon cruising around at under 1500rpm at times, so should yield good driving range.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    They better do something to minimize the CVT whine with that one because it completely killed any chance that I was going to buy a new Impreza (I wanted leather trim which isn't available with the stick)

    Even with the stereo on the whine was overbearing. :sick:

    Otherwise, love the idea of a Legacy wagon again!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited May 2012
    More details are creeping out...

    295 hp SAE, 296 lb-ft from 2000-4600 rpm.

    Hopefully the sportier models get manual transmissions, Subaru has been pretty good about that lately (WRX is manual ONLY).

    I'm now thinking the FR-S, BRZ, and WRX will get this tune, and the STI could get a 2.5 turbo with even more power. We'll see.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,140
    I didn't read the details, so is it a boxer or normal engine?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited May 2012
    Boxer, we think it's based on the same block from the FT 86, trying to verify that...

    Lexus could end up using the same engine.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/05/03/toyota-prius-plug-in-sells-1-654-copies-in-ap- ril-beating-chevy/

    Beat Volt and Leaf, even nearly matching their sales combined.

    For an old design, not bad.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,140
    I still can't wrap my mind around Lexus using that design.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Funny thing is - neither can I.

    It's part of Subaru's DNA...

    It's totally opposed to Lexus' DNA.

    Pardon the pun. ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,140
    Groan...but good one.

    There's a bugeye Impreza in my parking garage that sounds like a nice late model riding lawnmower...I can't imagine that noise coming from any model of the isotank L, nor do I see it being able to be isolated into silence.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There are a few good aftermarket exhausts for the WRX and a lot of bad ones.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,140
    This is a bone stock Impreza, it might even have hubcaps.

    There's also an early 00s style (the roundish one) Legacy sedan that sometimes parks by me at work, always smells hot. I wonder if that's something the engines do as they age too.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited May 2012
    That Impreza was probably a high teens car new, a Lexus would start at double the cost. More insulation and 2 generations of engine refinement.

    Having said that, I still have trouble imagining a Lexus with a boxer growl.

    To put it in terms you would better understand, imagine comparing a 230 Kompressor to a smooth E350 V6.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    IIRC, that boxer design started out in BMW motorcycles? Saw a biography on BMW bikes on the history channel (I think) that basically recalled the boxer engine being extremely reliable, durable and powerful and once they got away from the Boxer design, things went sort of sketchy on all characteristics.

    At WOT, the STi sounds incredible IMO. it's the putt putting around town where it sounds kinda unrefined...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    A bunch of us (Subaru owners) went to the Baltimore Auto Show one year and we got a kick out of the BMW motorcycle display. They went out of their way to promote all the advantages of that layout. :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Found a vid with sound, stock and then with a Magnaflow:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToxViqDIgv4

    Before sounds like my blender malfunctioning. After sounds like it's trying to sound like a WRX. LOL

    I think the later Kompressor engine was a tad better, but I'd take a Scion FR-S over either, no question.

    We're spoiled, the US market tends to get V6 and above models. Lux makes have plenty of 4 bangers in other markets.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    FT86 for comparison:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oDT3dNDo2c
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,140
    Friend of mine has an 09 Impreza, non WRX, I wouldn't call it the pinnacle of smoothness either. It won't work in a Lexus, the engine would have to be totally encapsulated, floating on some special mount system, with an insanely muffled exhaust. Not worth the effort.

    I remember being appalled at the first time I heard a kompressor car start when cold.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    09 Impreza had the EJ25.

    Since then the 2.5l engines went to the FB architecture with pretty significant changes. The coolant has separate lines for the heads and block, so no more coolant leaks from the head gasket (they don't flow through them at all).

    FB25 is also chain driven vs belt for the EJ, the oil filter moved up to the top/front of the engine bay, revised intake, etc. It's a whole new block, nothing in common with the old one except that both round to 2.5l, even displacement changed if you're not rounding.

    So pretty much a clean sheet design.

    Then, on top of that, Toyota came in and revised it further and renamed it the FA20. I'm not sure why they made so many changes to a brand new block, but they did. Bore and stroke are different, but the main change is they added direct injection and made it more high rev-friendly.

    So the FA in the Scion FR-S is two generations removed from the boxer in your friend's car, oddly enough.

    To be honest I think it's wasteful, I can't imagine the R&D effort to re-engineer 2 new engines in 2 years. Crazy.

    Rumor has it Subaru resisted since the FB was brand new but Toyota forced the changes upon then.

    Looks like Subaru will put the FB in the fuel misers and the FA in the performance cars, basically.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Toyota gets most Florida, N.Y unintended-acceleration claims dismissed

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20120505/OEM11/305059983#ixzz1uBynJamO
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,140
    edited May 2012
    Coolant leaks...hmm...maybe that's why I have noticed a hot smell.

    Can't see how even a new boxer would be suitable for Lexus though, what can it do that a new age DI/turbo engine can't? There may be a clean sheet design, but the layout itself seems to have inherent NVH issues.

    Funny about the unintended acceleration garbage...I want a judge to just loudly announce it is all driver incompetency.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Lexus doesn't need a boxer, it's the FT platform that needs economies of scale. So it's the other way around.

    For the FT is makes sense - the whole engine block basically drags on the ground. That's how they got the low center of gravity.

    No room for AWD unfortunately. :cry:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,140
    edited May 2012
    Make an FT Camry coupe or a new MR2 or a new Supra or something then. I'd wager we won't see it come to Lexus. Wrong demographic.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    All this is speculation...earlier I'd heard that the Lexus IS would be based on a shortened GS. That sort of makes more sense, actually.

    They gotta ditch the IS250, though. Why make a smallish V6 that only goes in one model?

    I thought they could put a non-DI version of the 3.5l engine (2GR) in the base model, and then DI in the upper models (2GR-FSE).

    That's what Cadillac does on the CTS - both 3.6l but the base engine has no DI.

    Trick would be how to name it? IS350, IS350+? Can't use DI, that sounds like a diesel.

    Or do as the Germans and have the numbers make absolutely no sense.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,140
    The 250 sells in other markets too, and allows for sweetheart leases and enables those new to the brand to kind of stretch in. I can see a place for it in terms of sales volume - no doubt it sells more than its bigger brother.

    IS Diesel, it exists! That would actually get me to give a glance at one. Maybe make the DI the "F sport" or some such gingerbread.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah but I doubt a 2.5l V6 with direct injection costs any less than the very high volume 3.5l V6, which goes in the Camry and Sienna.

    By pure economies of scale that engine must cost them next to nothing to produce.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,140
    But is the high volume 3.5 made in Japan? Maybe that's part of it too.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good point. They tax by displacement so it may not be. They don't get our big Camry or the Sienna for that matter.

    They could build the engines here...
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,140
    The IS is all Japan made, as far as I know. Probably keeps the less featured American oriented V6 out of it.

    Going to be interesting to see what it happens to that car,as it is so much older than the competition, and sorely needs an update.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Supposed to be on the road less than a year from now, so I'm sure we'll find out in the Fall.

    Would make sense to unveil at Tokyo or SEMA (new IS-F).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Lexus distances itself from Toyota as it seeks to regain luxury crown

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20120506/OEM04/120509915#ixzz1uIP5xIow

    Refreshing after hearing from Acura that they would not be going all out.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,140
    There will be some sweetheart deals at the end of the run, too. That means a 2014 or 2015 model? Too far out for something that was on the road in the fall of 2005 and has barely been updated since.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,140
    Funny that the grille is being used as a differentiating tactic. I guess no publicity is bad publicity...even if you don't like it, you sure notice it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I wonder how much people like it, vs. the other updates, you never know. It's hard to measure the reasons it's doing well because a lot changed.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,140
    I think the front end is the weak point in the GS from an aesthetic standpoint, especially if one likes homogenous styling...but that's just my opinion. The interior is the strong suit.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The screen is some nice eye-candy for sure. Caddy has a similar one now (also more than a foot in diagonal measure).

    BMW's is big but not quite as big.

    Benz' is the smallest but it's so sharp that it seemed more usable to me than BMW's system. HD for sure. Audi does their 3D buildings thing. Neat but TMI (too much info) if you ask me.

    Will be checking out the 3 series and new C class early next month at a local event, so hopefully I can play with those systems a little, to see where the bar is set for the next IS.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles