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Toyota on the mend?

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  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    a new tax year has started. I think that means they are once again eligible for the large tax credit, so maybe sales will pick back up.

    Yes it's like a couple grand worth of tax incentives I thin to a certain point next year and by September it's only elgible for $750 worth of incentives I think. I read this about a week ago in motor trend but I know I might be off on my months and numbers. I do know after this year unless something else passes their won't be any tax incentives which stinks because GM, is just really starting to get their hybrids on board. :sick:

    Rocky
  • 1992 Camry had a base MSRP from $14,798 up to $21,178...

    Camry

    1992 Park avenue had a Base MSRP from $25,285 up to $28,780

    Park Avenue
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    GM wanted $25,000 1992 dollars for this? Jeebus. :confuse: :sick:
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,182
    Well, it would make a good parts car for my dads 2004 Grand Prix... ;)
  • While not a bad car the park avenue was certainly not a 25,000 dollar car in early 1990s money.
  • So true. I guess once the rebates are taken into account it is closer to the Camry. I wonder if GM’s rebates cause it to loose some sales because a buyer wants a 20,000 car see a GM model for 25,000 and thinks it costs too much. It makes it difficult to compare models when you have $3,000+ rebates.
  • Yeah not sure what invoice would have been on that car but probably 22,xxx or so and I bet by the end of the model year they had 3,000 dollars plus in rebates.

    So yeah at the end of the model year I bet you could buy that car for under 20,000 plus tax.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    TORRANCE, Calif. — On the eve of the critical launch of its 2007 Tundra pickup, Japanese auto juggernaut Toyota has stumbled with the announcement that it is recalling half a million of its trucks for potential steering problems.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=119283

    Rocky

    P.S. No articles mentioned in the Automotive Sections of Detroit's 2 major Newspapers when I googled it ;)
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    Geez, you'd think the rah-rah "home team" cheerleading papers (for the domestics) would have reported it? Just guess it's not that big a deal, or they're in on the conspiracy? ;)
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,205
    ...about the Tundra in the first place. It looks like the same truck Toyota's had for several years. Is it just because it's a Toyota with its (ahem) "legendary reliability" that makes it so much better than its competition?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,695
    is an extension of last year's recall: it names more years with potentially bad ball joints. That must have been one HECK of a huge truckful of bad parts! :-P

    Tundra and Toyota have taken a beating with this ball joint recall. The new model had better be spotless in terms of recalls and launch glitches, what with all Toyota has staked on its success.

    lemko: is there anything that great about the Tundra? Indeed, has anyone said so? It is now a seven-year-old model, which in the last year has needed the highest cash incentives in Toyota history to sell. Considering its age, the incentives aren't such a terrible thing, but it's no diamond in the rough or anything. I like it, very carlike ride and interior considering it's a truck, but I like the Chevy full-size trucks too.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Actually it looks entirely different than before. In addition it's the biggest truck on the road outside of the HD's and SD's.

    It has the biggest towing capacity, the most safety features, the most advanced transmission and the most room inside. The hauling capacity is right in the middle of the F150 and new TOTY Silverado. The Tundra has better Fuel Economy than the F150 and is similar to the Silvy's.

    Ford has nothing in a 'normal' truck that can tow and accelerate like the Tundra. The 6.0L in the GMT900's is competitive but it's limited to on a few cab/chassis configurations. GM's 5.3L is outclassed even by the Ford old engine.

    What the Tundra has done is make the detroiters look at their full lineup and decide if they want to put their best effort ( read money and investments ) into every vehicle or just to specialize in a few spots.
    .. GM has a couple of good engines but you can't buy them for all models;
    .. Ford has old technology in it's relatively weak 5.4L. It has nothing bigger to offer to a 1/2 ton pickup buyer.
    .. The 5.7L HEMI is good but the RAM skimps on some options like 4Wheel ABS and it has very light hauling capacity.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,695
    On the flip side, all the GM gas engines except the smallest have available DOD, and what's the latest on Toyota's potential diesel engine for the new Tundra? Last I heard it was delayed. Will there ever be the hybrid model that they said for sure they would have as recently as two years ago?

    I understand that they have eyeballed this segment and decided that fuel economy should be a low priority based on consumer demands, but this is Toyota, not Ford. Fuel economy should be a priority regardless of the competition, even if it means going the extra mile with the gas engines. I would LOVE to see a diesel, but I am sure it's not happening this year. And probably not next either, to judge by the news.

    Or at least let's plunk a monster-sized electric motor and some batteries in there - who cares about weight, it's a full-size pick-up after all. It's already heavy. HSD could do wonders for the city rating. That and some taller gearing (it IS a 6-speed auto after all) for better highway ratings would be an important improvement.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Reports on some of the truck sites, and Edmunds own report in the comparo today, seems to indicate that the DoD on the GM's is of very very little benefit - maybe under 5%.

    AFAIK the diesel Tundra is still in the works, within 24 months (?), after the initial launch of the gasser Tundra is completed. It's adds excitement to the rollout of this beast.
    .. blow everything away in the initial comparo's;
    .. get established at an increased sales level( 200K ? );
    .. fire a second volley with a diesel and more cab/bed configurations;
    .. establish a new level of increased sales ( 300K ? );
    .. refresh and ( add a hybrid option ? ) and increase sales again ( 400K ? )
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    TOKYO — Increasing media speculation over Toyota Motor's plan to construct a new small-car plant in India by 2010 appears to be missing the whole point of the exercise: to figure out how to out-Chinese the Chinese.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=119560

    Rocky

    P.S. Looks like we might see some Japan-E class of cars. :surprise:
  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,750
    As a company tries to overtake another to become number one they begin to look more and more alike. For the most part the consumer doesn't care because the vehicle is nothing more than a machine. It doesn't matter who makes the machine only that the machine works. Betting that the number one company is supplanted by the number two or three or even the number four company doesn't take a rocket scientist it will sooner or later happen. Will the world as we know it change? Not much we will simply have a new target to complain about as they fail to meet our specific needs. Toyota has moved to become the generic car company for years. Today they define vanilla to almost every automotive enthusiast. They make cars the consumers seem to be interested in and leave the specialty cars to others. As long as that formula works why should we expect them to change. Recalls were a main topic with people when Honda and Toyota didn't have any. Once they do have them people either are surprised or suddenly decide they aren't all that important.

    Once and if Toyota gets to be the top manufacturer look for them to be more interested in playing it safe and less interested in being innovative. It is simply the natural order of things. We already see it. (My opinion only)
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,695
    Hehehe:"Once and if Toyota gets to be the top manufacturer look for them to be more interested in playing it safe"

    Gawd, could they PLAY it any safer than they already do? There isn't an ounce of daring anywhere in the Toyota or Lexus lines. Maybe there's an ounce or two in the Scion line, I dunno. :-P

    Toyota will need to rethink its Tundra expansion goals, I think, because their initial idea was simply to finally have a truck to keep Toyota-loyal people from buying domestic once it was full-size truck time. They probably could get to 200K annual sales on that basis, but Toyota buyers are going to be less likely to buy a full-size truck with the gas prices going up and up IMO. Plus getting to 250K or 300K annual sales I think is going to be a real stretch, even with HD, diesel, and hybrid models.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    It seems the "good American" toyota is worried about US wages getting too high...........

    http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...SS01/702080429

    http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...SS01/702080430
  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,750
    That is simply the price that has to be paid to do business in the US. When you are a small company people and the government may be willing to cut you some slack but when you get big you get the same treatment as everyone else. US companies are required to play by the rules in Japan even if they don't care for them the Japanese will just have to do the same here.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    Proposed tarrifs on their cars because the US Gonvernment might push an extra tarriff on imports.

    Weakening the yen-again another thing that the government in Michigan is heavily pushing because the economy in Detroit heavily relies on the Domestic's 2.5 business, a business that Toyota is eating heavily into.

    Proposition of unionizing the Kentucky plant with the UAW.

    In consclusion, Toyota sales numbers may look great but their rest of the year(which is only 3 months in) has not been good at all and started bad with all those recalls.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Huh?

    1) Tariffs on Asian imports are a thing of the past. As a matter of fact there is an FTA with Thailand pending that would eliminate the 'chicken tax' on trucks opening the door to a flood, deluge, tsunami of imported trucks from Thailand. Pop quiz: What country is the No 2 truck producer in the world?... ( answer below ).

    2) The problem of weakening the yen is that it does exactly the opposite of what's intended. Explanation available if requested.

    3) Proposal to unionize KY. The net effect will be zero if it was ever successful.

    4) What does this statement mean? Sales numbers are increasing every month faster than the entire industry but.. there are changes possible in the future??? OK that sounds about normal.
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    Answer: Thailand.
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,442
    The thing here is that these are proposed tariffs. They won't get past that.

    Assuming there is proposed action on the value of the yen again it does not mean its happening. Who do we owe the most to for floating the bonds that keep us going? Japan. Yes, China is now the biggest buyer but Japan is the biggest owner.

    Again the proposed Unionization of the Kentucky plant is just that.

    I will add that one of these days there will be a successful unionization of a foreign plant on domestic soil and we'll see what happens. If the UAW then cuts a great deal expect loads more of it. If they don't you are looking at one plant for a long time.

    I am sure that Toyota, Nissan and Honda are all wishing that first plant on each other.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,205
    ...was the old VW plant in Westmoreland County, PA unionized?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    The JV plant in Fremont CA where Toyota makes the Tacoma, Corolla, Matrix and Vibe is a UAW plant.

    It sure doesn't seem to be hurting the Tacoma from being the top small truck in the market or the Corolla from being the top small auto in the market. Unionization is just another issue to consider. GM makes some great vehicles with union workers why shouldn't Toyota be able to do so as well? It does, the Tacoma and Corolla.
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Posts: 483
    On the issue of unions: All of the plants in Europe are unionized plants making cars that run the gamut from the most reliable to some of the worst.

    All of the plants in Canada are also unionized, and, as I understand it, all of the "Foreign" plants in Detroit are unionized.

    The issue is more about how management approaches the hand they are dealt than whether or not the plants are unionized.
  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    The Freemont plant is not long for this world.
    With toyotas new taco plant in bc mexico which is
    next door to the plant that makes the beds (and other
    stuff) for US produced taco and tundras............
    I don't see the "terroist toyota" paying those $pendy
    union wages much longer...............

    BTW: Isn't the Vibe now assembled in mexico?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    LOL..how much misinformation can be contained in one post?
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,442
    The Freemont plant. It indeed shows that Toyota can operate in a UAW environment if they want to.

    You know what I wonder? GM is there making good vehicles in that plant but has not moved other plants to imitate it. This strikes me as how they started Saturn which was an initially great idea that they let hang on the vine because they didn't know what to do with it. They are now blending it in as a wide range division but without that single brand design - the are rebadging.

    I don't mean to say that GM is wrong with what it is doing with Saturn now under these conditions. It's a question of why didn't they start expanding with the initial acceptance,
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    "2) The problem of weakening the yen is that it does exactly the opposite of what's intended. Explanation available if requested."

    Yes please explain.

    "4) What does this statement mean? Sales numbers are increasing every month faster than the entire industry but.. there are changes possible in the future??? OK that sounds about normal."

    Yeah sales are increasing faster than the industry but Toyota has recalled alot of cars this year and their recalls have went up by alot in the past few years even though they(their recalls)were down last year from 2005 figures.
    .
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