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Toyota on the mend?

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,056
    Here is a pretty graphic account of those people's last moments.

    Scars from crash remain raw
    Santee wreck that killed 4 is still haunting witnesses

    Witnesses said the car jumped a curb, smashed through a wooden fence, hit an embankment, rocketed into the air again, flipped, flipped again, caught fire and came to a stop in the bed of the San Diego River.

    Valencia, an off-duty sheriff’s deputy, jumped out of his car and into the smoke. The 2009 Lexus now looked like a battered clunker, he said. Flames licked the tires. He tugged on Mark Saylor’s blue shirt.

    “Hey, wake up. Wake up!” Valencia yelled.

    He looked at the other bodies in the car. He remains burdened by what he saw. That’s no way, he says, to remember people, even if they were strangers.

    He reached through the broken windows and tried to pull the bodies out, but they were wedged too tightly under the crushed roof. The heat from the flames forced him back.

    “I felt completely helpless,” Valencia said. “I had no fire extinguisher, no tools, no radio.”

    He ran back to the street and was surprised to see about 30 people standing at the intersection. Many snapped photos with their cell phones.

    Why weren’t they helping, he thought.

    A man used a baby blanket to try to snuff out small brush fires from the car debris. The soot made it hard to breathe.

    Murphy had stopped by the side of the road, but now wanted so badly to drive away. It was too much. But she also wanted to tell law enforcement officials what she saw.

    “It was like a nightmare you had to be awake for,” she said.


    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/dec/20/scars-crash-remain-raw/

    This more what you would rather see posted, than where are the diesel cars?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,387
    I'm not surprised the "black box" didn't have information for Toyota to get from their proprietary system and extraction tools. It's sort of like the kid throwing the baseball bat into the weeds in the woods next to the vacant lot after he hit the ball through the window of the house across the street and the owner is standing there asking, "Who broke this window." :blush:

    Of course the kid can always claim it was the extra floor mat that did it.
  • So last time I checked this thread, it was discussing how great the Mazda5 is as a people mover. Now its bash Toyota and some poor Toyota salesmen is left to defend the brand.

    Are we waiting for Toyota to declare bankruptcy?

    Are we waiting for more recalls?

    Or are we just waiting to see if they develop a new innovation?

    I personally don't think taking a car with a full powertrain and adding a second full powertrain is all that innovative, but the public likes it and that is what's important.

    I miss the 1991-1995 MR2 Turbo with the t-tops. Those were a hoot.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,651
    I miss the 1991-1995 MR2 Turbo with the t-tops. Those were a hoot.

    Oh man, now were talking. I used to participate in SCCA Solo II events in the late 90's. We had a young kid that had a '92 or so MR2 turbo that had some aftermarket turbo upgrades. Wow, that thing was quick, sounded cool to. You could always here the wastegate or pop off valve making it's poosh sound.

    He was always one of the quickest through the course, even when vette's would show up. Those small cars like Mr2s, and Miata's had a big advantage due to their small size on a tight course.

    One of these days I'd be fun to pick up a used MR2 or Miata, put some money in it and hit the track. Good times.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Blame the Lexus dealer ....

    ...then look inside yourself. Is this where you have decended? You may be below pond scum.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,855
    from my pov, it's the 'nothing to see here, move on' posts that kind of aggravate me.
    they are arrogant.
    got a ride in my sister's prius, 33 mpg average. Awesome!
  • Prius and Awesome never go together.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    really sucks now. It's a never-ending cascade of schlock, interspersing Toyota-bashing with kdh's absurdly rosy Toyota-love. Neither really tells the story of anything. This is what made the GM thread so boring last year.

    These are two of the largest five automakers in the world, folks. What they are doing is so much bigger than a [non-permissible content removed]-kicker war between the bashers and the lovers.

    Will Whitacre overstay his welcome, and will he ever rethink the wisdom of keeping four brands in North America? Will Akio Toyoda's ascent change the direction of the company's boring product in the next few years as he insists it will?

    The talk of the early 90s Mister Two's has me waxing nostalgic too....

    I see that Ford got BOTH North American Car of the Year AND North American Truck of the Year. While everyone is in here trying to out-shout each other about whether Toyota or GM (or VW) has 10 more annual sales, Ford is quietly going to make off with the market....using INNOVATION rather than COST-CUTTING as its secret ingredient.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,056
    Ford is quietly going to make off with the market

    And I love it. I keep thinking I should sell my Ford stock and it keeps on going up. It is the brightest spot in my 401K. Toyota is boring and whenever you suggest they come out with something really innovative like a diesel PU truck, you get slammed by the diesel haters on the thread. Or called names for posting facts about Toyota that are not pleasant.

    So what you are seeing is the GM of Japan going the same route that led the largest automaker in the World into bankruptcy. Toyota just has a little more savings. Won't last long with many losing years like the last one.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    Toyota is boring and whenever you suggest they come out with something really innovative like a diesel PU truck, you get slammed by the diesel haters on the thread

    Toyota IS boring and has cost-cut WAY beyond where it should have stopped, but posting soap-opera-like accounts of the feelings of witnesses to a tragic crash from months back, even if it DID involve a Toyota, doesn't help, gagrice.

    As for this energetic crusade for diesel you are waging on the boards, I think you have to be realistic and understand that unless one of the Big 6 has a sudden and massive change of heart, diesels are not going to arrive at widespread acceptance in America any time soon, and that's not something you can lay solely at Toyota's door. Ford, GM, Honda, all have backed off their diesel plans in the last six months. I think maybe electric powertrains stole the limelight or something, but the emissions challenges, the costs, and the lack of acceptance of diesel caused them to make eminently logical decisions in light of their market. Again, NOT something you can lay solely at Toyota's door.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Her's is broken. 140,000miles today and lifetime average is 47.4 mpg. Nothing new to see here, move on.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I see that Ford got BOTH North American Car of the Year AND North American Truck of the Year. While everyone is in here trying to out-shout each other about whether Toyota or GM (or VW) has 10 more annual sales, Ford is quietly going to make off with the market....using INNOVATION rather than COST-CUTTING as its secret ingredient.

    You're joking right? This thread is about Toyota. It's not about Ford or GM or VW. Read the title.

    The Toyota presentation yesterday in Detroit was much more innovative than any other maker's glitz about single vehicles. It laid out the whole corporate strategy for the next 10-20 years. No maker will have 8 new dedicated hybrids hitting the streets in the next 1 to 4 years. That's in addition to the G3 Prius and the updates to the HH and the TCH.

    That's innovation. Maybe it doesn't fit your personal view but that's life, everybody can't be satisfied all the time. Life goes on.

    BTW I love the Ford Touch interfaces. But I don't go over the to Ford boards and tell them how wonderful Toyota is.
  • roho1roho1 Posts: 317
    The Toyota presentation yesterday in Detroit was much more innovative than any other maker's glitz about single vehicles. It laid out the whole corporate strategy for the next 10-20 years.

    Not having seen the presentation, was there any mention of hydrogen fuel cells or hydrogen in any form in their future?
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    I don't know what you are getting at. As gagrice posted, the crash was a horrific one with fire, and the black box was not readable. They're not totally indestructible after all.
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    ...diesels are not going to arrive at widespread acceptance in America any time soon, and that's not something you can lay solely at Toyota's door. Ford, GM, Honda, all have backed off their diesel plans in the last six months. I think maybe electric powertrains stole the limelight or something, but the emissions challenges, the costs, and the lack of acceptance of diesel caused them to make eminently logical decisions in light of their market.

    Couldn't have said it better myself. I don't see diesel ever catching on in a big way in the US.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    I think the question was if only one company can read the box and that company is liable for the accident, who can verify that it's unreadable? Seeing how these mega corporations operate, I wouldn't be surprised......
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    So they are going to put the same powertrain they already have in 8 more vehicles in 4 years. Ignoring for a moment that they have made similar promises in the past and have let their timeline slip badly (it's now 2010 and they still only have 3 Toyota-branded hybrids), it is not innovation. HSD has been around for a while.

    Anyway, my point was that there is more to Toyota today than a spitball war over sales with GM. They still need to focus on getting the quality back up, which they should maybe do before pumping out new hybrid models. And it wouldn't hurt to suspend the relentless cost-cutting for a little while, IMO.

    Now tell me, will there be a hybrid Corolla? I have mentioned the proposed Yaris hybrid in a couple of spots, and can't find anyone who thinks that would be much of an idea. OTOH, the new Focus and new Civic launch this year, and a hybrid Corolla would be a good way to compete with them, given that the last update of the Corolla was somewhat underwhelming.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • ingvaringvar Posts: 205
    Tiny cars with a battery not an innovation. BMW creates new smart driver's seats, colored projection displays, smarter car computers, engines with more HP and more torque & etc.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Yes. One of the key thrusts of this new strategy is the ongoing trials under government supervision of FCHVs. They currently have a Highlander like FCHV in service that can go 430 miles per fillup. It generates no exhaust at all, water vapor.

    Toyota is on record as saying that it can bring this technology to market affordably by the next Generation of vehicles in 2015. Honda is going in the same direction with the FCHV Clarity.

    These can be on the roads and running well before affordable BEVs. But just like BEVs it's an infrastructure problem; charging stations that'll get you up to 100 miles or hydrogen fueling stations that can get you up to 450 miles?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Nope that's not accurate. The text of the presentation is on Toyota's website ==>About the Company ==> News

    You saw the hybrid Yaris yesterday, FT-CH concept, but it'll be called the Prius-something. It will be the first of the 8 new dedicated hybrids. As I said several pages back now what Toyota is going to do is use the marketing hammer that is the Prius name. Torrance has been fighting to get Toyota's agreement on this and now apparently it has been given.

    Read the presentation. In addition there is this Toyota video for the new concept

    The bigger issue as I see it is that Toyota now agrees with the US Govt that petro-fuels are absolutely going to be insufficient in the relatively near term to power the vehicles of the world as it grows and expands. I'd say that the sudden movements by the governments in Europe and China as well to accelerate low emissions/low fuel usage technologies is a further confirmation of the data and scenarios that they're privvy to seeing that we are not.

    Toyota however is the first huge industrial company to come out and state that it's future strategy is planned around the scenario that petro-fuel will either run short for the driving public and/or that the driving public will see pricing run up so high that it causes economic hardship to the point that it turns away from auto's.

    Neither situation is good for a huge international giant in the auto business. Toyota is telling everyone that in the event that these scenario's do come sooner rather than later that it will have options for the public, options that don't rely solely on petro-fuel. That is innovation on a huge scale.

    This is a huge statement IMO that no other company of this size has ever made.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,768
    Not having seen the presentation, was there any mention of hydrogen fuel cells or hydrogen in any form in their future?

    I think they've wisely decided that hydrogen is a non-starter.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Sorry if this is already posted - don't have time to look back and find out:

    Toyota will install brake override systems to prevent runaway vehicles

    How do you say "better late than never" in Japanese?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,387
    >"better late than never" in Japanese?

    We spin it as "wonderful." It's the best thing ever. It's the way everybody should be doing it.

    Nothing to see here. Everybody move on! (translated: we don't want to talk about that!)
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Oh Yes Dey Do.

    Prius has won all sorts of Awesome awards.

    Prius ushered in the Era of Economy.

    Prius has record for most miles on a tank of gas.

    Fuel economy in Prius = Awesome.

    Resale Value in Prius = Awesome.

    Awesome and Prius go together quite well.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,651
    Oh Yes Dey Do.

    Prius has won all sorts of Awesome awards.

    Prius ushered in the Era of Economy.

    Prius has record for most miles on a tank of gas.

    Fuel economy in Prius = Awesome.

    Resale Value in Prius = Awesome.

    Awesome and Prius go together quite well.


    I wouldn't dispute those facts, but the car doesn't interest me. Well, I find the technology interesting, but the car itself itself does nothing for me. I don't blame anyone for wanting one if their primary goal is to use less fuel. The Prius seems to be extremely well built and engineered, but it's just to boring for my tastes.

    Gas isn't nearly expensive enough (yet) for me to change my ways. I don't drive enough during the week with only me in the car to justify the expense of an additional car for commuting purposes. I usually drive maybe 50 miles M-F, but on the weekends I need the room and towing ability of a BOF SUV. I often drive 150-250 miles on the weekends to and from the lake during the summer (a Prius won't haul our stuff or tow our boat).

    Gas will have to get to the $6+/gal range for something like a Prius to make sense for me. Even then I want something that is remotely rewarding to drive. Good fuel economy alone won't do it, if that's all I cared about, I'll just drive my electric Club Car everywhere.
  • I saw this recently...

    "Newsflash! Toyota will equip all vehicles with a lever that will allow the vehicle to be shifted into neutral under any circumstance, thus allowing drivers to stop any unintended acceleration. Said levers will be located either between the front seats or on the steering column. The neutral shift function may be multiplexed with the forward and reverse selection option to reduce implementation costs. Other automakers are rumored to follow suit.

    Oh yeah, shifting the car into neutral would require the driver to actually know how to drive. Never mind."

    I know 6 Prius owners. My observation is that they don't accelerate very well going uphill or up grade when merging into Interstate traffic going 70 or more. Maybe even 60 or so.

    My first economy car was a Datsun B210 in 1975.

    John
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,855
    sit and stare at this post and you can learn something about a Prius.
    not broken, she is taking a lot of short trips with the heat on, so the gas engine is running.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    This is the Yaris hybrid plans I was talking about:

    Toyota Adjusts Yaris Future

    January 06, 2010 / By Paul Horrell

    Click to view Gallery
    The 2009 Toyota YarisToyota's subcompact cars plans have been knocked sideways by the recession. The company was planning a new generation version of its Toyota Yaris that would feature the innovative engineering of the tiny iQ, but it will now instead rebody the current Yaris (pictured) for 2012.

    However, in search of ultra-economy, Toyota will make a hybrid version -- a full hybrid, as opposed to the mild-hybrid system in the Honda Insight. Toyota plans to release hybrids across its range. In Europe it is launching an Auris -- the European Corolla-equivalent hatchback -- with Hybrid Synergy Drive.

    ......The original plan was to design a range of subcompacts longer than the iQ but with the same packaging solutions and front platform, yielding a very spacious five-seat car, and an additional seven-seater a little bigger than a Honda Fit. But now, the need to save money on retooling Yaris plants means the current car will get a straightforward rebody.


    http://www.motortrend.com/future/112_0912_toyota_yaris_future/index.html

    I was not talking about that FT-CH monstrosity they pushed at the show. I am doubtful that will ever see the light of day, and if it doesn't that might be for the best.....

    And they could sure do themselves a favor, as I said before, if one of those 8 promised hybrids is the Corolla. If hybrid-hating Europe can have a hybrid Corolla, why can't we?

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • Yeah I kind of agree with that. Its not an enthusiasts' vehicle. Its a car for people that don't care about cars and want to get to work and the store and think gas is going to be $10/gal next week. Or they want to feel good about the environment. Or they want to lessen the US reliance on foreign oil. Or they have some moral/ethical/politcal statement to make and it helps them do it. For all those other uses, it is very good.

    My uncle had the best reason: he bought his used because it happened to have the sticker for the HOV lane in southern California. Apparently, using the car pool lane alone in a Prius is Awesome.
  • "Europe where about 70% of all private passenger cars are diesel"

    Read this article. It tells us that Europe's government taxes gasoline at a much higher rate to get people to buy diesel and it talks about how the automakers in the usa are going to get more technical with the gas engines to get better performance/ gas mileage like direct injection, turbo, supercharger.

    http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4722851
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