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Toyota on the mend?

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  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    I want to see GM and Ford do good because its great for competition among the mainstream divisions, which directly helps us consumers get a variety of high quality, lots of feature options when shopping for vehicles.

    But don't you understand, that high fleet sales are not good for GM and Ford? They don't make the money off them like they do company and consumer sales. Having between 30-60% fleet sales each month, depending on what Detroit 3 were talking about, only goes to provide rental fleet fodder. I read time and time again online from various financial experts that say its not good for them. They need to get those fleet sales reduced because they are no where near what the foreign automakers do each month in fleet sales.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,155
    >40% increase in Toyota sales

    What were the sales in 2008, then 2009, and now 2010? Comparing with 2009, a down year in the economy for all brands means jack squat. :)
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,175
    edited April 2010
    I don't hate GM. What I do hate is the biased, pompous, arrogant, antagonizing sensationalist attitude who make up a majority of their fanbase.

    I could give a rats [non-permissible content removed] whether or not Toyota rises or fails in the future. I have never owned nor do I have much intention of owning one of their products in my lieftime. But I'm not going to follow the same vendetta as you and other haters with a pitchfork in one hand and an American flag in the other, pushing for the demise of everything that's NOT based in Detroilet in the name of protectionism (and racism :sick: ) as some sort of salvation for the decades of (deserved) criticism and negative rankings over the past 3 decades.

    Freedom of choice. Welcome to America. Enjoy your stay.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,155
    Where is a listing that includes the monthly sales by name plate that goes back to 2008 and earlier. I don't find any free ones on the internet in my searches
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Interesting, but before people break out the champagne let's remember they polled 1000 Americans.

    Can you imagine if they polled 1000 people in Japan? Do you think 33% would pick American cars?

    Any how, it's good news for Detroit, but the real question is what is the long-term effect.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,967
    But don't you understand, that high fleet sales are not good for GM and Ford?

    GM and to a lesser extent Ford still have obligations to the UAW. That means keeping workers busy. They have to build and sell so many vehicles to meet those obligations to the Pension funds. Toyota is not tied up with those obligations. This little recall for Toyota helps to level the playing field.

    "Onto every auto maker a little rain must fall". :blush:
  • avucarguyavucarguy Posts: 56
    I totally agree with you. I think some of these Toyota haters can't stand it because an asian manufacturer is beating the pants of the domestics in this country. I think these good ol boys would be bashing Hyundai also, if Hyundai was #1 in this country.
    I do not like GM because the first 4 cars I ever owned were GM and the were CRAP. I spent too much money fixing them at a time in my life when I did not have much money(being young and poor).
    But I do not want GM /Chrysler to go out of business either. The more competition, the better for us consumer. More choices for everybody to choose from.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    if Hyundai was #1 in this country

    I saw a survey of web site traffic and while GM was first, Hyundai was second.

    They're rising fast, and I bet they one day will reach the peaks Toyota did.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,967
    I don't hate GM. What I do hate is the biased, pompous, arrogant, antagonizing sensationalist attitude who make up a majority of their fanbase.

    You are not trying to get us to believe you have not gone onto a GM thread and shown bias while bashing GM products, are you? I would say you spend more time bashing GM than I do Toyota.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I would say you spend more time bashing GM than I do Toyota.

    Isn't that a bit like the pot calling the kettle black?

    I found that amusing on many levels. :P
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,175
    There is nothing to bash. GM started their decent long before I was driving. :blush:

    Again, Toyota has a reputation to destroy. Government Motors doesn't. :shades:
  • robsisrobsis Posts: 160
    Well, having owned several GM and Toyota models in the past (most recently an 03 Avalanche and an 05 Highlander), my wife and I decided to check out both in our quest for a new vehicle for winter driving in Flagstaff, AZ. I was impressed with the Equinox/Terrain for '10. It certainly appears as if GM is truly on their way back to the quality they used to be known for (and the engineering, I might add)...but then we drove a '10 Hyundai Tucson and realized how much further GM still has to go to truly compete when you compare features and price.

    The dealership we go to, Tims Auto Group in Prescott, AZ, has GMC/Buick/Toyota/Hyundai/Subaru, and we worked with the Toyota fleet manager (the best, I might add....), who brought us one of everything we were trying to compare. A morning of driving everything side-by-side and researching all of the units we tried still lead us down the Toyota path for reliability, quality, features for the price, etc. An added plus is all that Toyota is now doing to make sure that the customer knows that they are king...and the showroom traffic that we saw convinced me that, although they are suffering from the bad publicity (I've never seen that many Prius's on a lot before...), they are quickly rebuilding themselves back to the prime player that they are.

    What's nice for us, the consumer, is that this hit they have taken has allowed other manufacturers (Ford, GM, Hyundai, Subaru) to have their products seen by many who, in the past, would not have even gone into those other showrooms. This can only lead to better autos and better customer service by all.

    Toyota's coming back...but this is a win-win for all of us, IMHO.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,155
    It looks like the sales for March 2009 were down about 40% from 2008. Sales for March 2010 were up about 40% of the lowered base of sales number in 2009, but that puts them back about where they were for 2008 which was down 3.5% from 2007.

    And the sales for 2010 were with lots, lots of incentives. That even includes 2 years of service to loyal toyota buyers as an additional incentive to keep the faithful.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Well said.

    I like the Equinox but experienced some serious sticker shock when I saw one at the auto show that was $39 grand. :surprise:

    Knock off $10 grand and I'd be interested.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,694
    edited April 2010
    ladies and silly germs.

    Toyota say what
    I can't believe anyone
    Wants them after all

    Yes! You nailed it brother!

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • Now that there is a more level playing field (union is under control, cost structure is looking very favorable), look for GM, Ford and Chrysler to kick some serious butt. Two years from now as new models are introduced, the foreigners are not going to know what hit them. And ironically, its the unionized American worker that is going to benefit. But he will be kept in check this time around. You can take that to the bank.
  • mnfmnf Posts: 404
    WOW now that is a graph i would like to see ;)
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    Popped back in here and noticed this:

    Sadly finding quality is nearly impossible with all brands.

    That kind of echoed some remarks made by andres before that, and I couldn't agree more. All the automakers are trying so desperately hard to squeeze every last drop of cost out of their production systems nowadays that the age of being able to buy a quality automobile in the U.S. at ANY price, but certainly under $50K, seem to be over. :-(

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    I found that amusing on many levels

    Me too! ;-)

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,967
    Maybe, just maybe I have bashed Toyota more than GM. Truth is I have had more to bash Toyota about than the 5 GM vehicles I bought new. I should bore you with my horribly unreliable 1964 Toyota Land Cruiser, unlike Andres, I also had many good times in my Land Cruiser. Our Land Cruiser was featured in several 4X4 magazines that I took pictures for and my wife wrote articles. The Jeep Wrangler in front of me on this 1966 Tierra del Sol run made it look so easy. :sick:

    image
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    Recalls Cost Toyota a Credit Grade Cut

    April 22, 2010

    Credit-rating service Moody's cut its grade on Toyota Motor Corp. based on its prediction that the Japanese automaker faces a long profitability slump coupled with potentially expensive lawsuit costs from its multiple vehicle recalls around the globe.

    It marked Toyota's lowest credit rating ever, and it was yet-another piece of bad news in yet-another week of bad news for Toyota.

    ......In addition to noting the cost of recalls and the hit on profits, Moody's, lowering its rating of Toyota, said the automaker was at the for product quality problems significantly and permanently eroding Toyota's historical advantage of pricing power. Moody's said Toyota's profits could be hurt through 2012 by the recall mess.


    http://www.autoobserver.com/2010/04/recalls-cost-toyota-a-credit-grade-cut.html#- more

    I think the days of "Toyota's historical advantage of pricing power" would have proven to be just about over even if none of this SUA mess had come along. Too many good automakers nipping at their heels these days, including Hyundai, and even the domestics (certainly Ford at least) are making their way back.

    But Moodys is looking at this cloud over Toyota right now settling in for a two-year stint. The other credit rating agencies will almost certainly follow suit shortly, and it's unclear if Toyota might not eventually end up in a GM-like financial crisis in a couple of years...

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    Some may say that Toyota's sales incentives, while historically high, are still less than major competitors including the domestics. But check this out:

    Seven of Ten Toyotas Sold in March Had 0-Percent Financing

    April 20, 2010

    According to data released today by Edmunds.com, parent of AutoObserver, a remarkable 71 percent of all Toyotas sold last month were financed through a 0-percent loans.

    .....As Toyota's unintended-acceleration controversy abated, the company ratcheted back on its heaviest incentives, but its March blow-out led the entire industry to its biggest 0-percent financing penetration rate since Edmunds.com began compiling the data six years ago

    Some 22 percent of all new-vehicle financing loans were 0-percent APR deals in March, Edmunds analysts said, exceeding the 21-percent figure of July, 2006.


    http://www.autoobserver.com/2010/04/seven-of-ten-toyotas-sold-in-march-had-0-per- cent-financing.html#more

    WHOA!! Anyone remember Mitsubishi's 0-0-0 fiasco a few years back??!! :-P

    But seriously, this may not count as a cash incentive, but the amount of lost interest on this financing is still an incentive of sorts, and as Edmunds says, "Toyota Motor Corp.'s reputation may have taken a whack in recent months, but those troubles apparently are nothing a good deal couldn't make buyers forget."

    None of the other Big 5 automakers had even half as much 0% financing, with Ford the closest at 32% of all sales made on 0% loans.

    Of course, if you are looking for a deal on a Toyota, I think it's safe to say the 0% financing will be around for a while, it clearly works WONDERS for Toyota.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,327
    The more competition, the better for us consumer. More choices for everybody to choose from.

    I agree competition is good. However, there have been way too many examples where the BIg 3 weren't being competitive at all and only bozo's and idiots were buying them. Either that, or they got scammed and defrauded.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,327
    Knock off $10 grand and I'd be interested.

    I feel the same way about the Cadillac CTS. Knock off 10 grand off the super inflated sticker and then you're talking!
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,327
    look for GM, Ford and Chrysler to kick some serious butt. Two years from now as new models are introduced, the foreigners are not going to know what hit them.

    The Big three have spewed the same propaganda non-sense over and over and over again, and it appears you are paid to regurgitate it yet again. I heard the same line in 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997,1998 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and now your REGURGITATING it yet again here in 2010!!

    What makes it different this time, after all these repeated years of the same statement?
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,327
    isn't worth much these days as the most you can make on your money without risking losing it all is about 1%, maybe 2% if your lucky.
  • xluxlu Posts: 457
    only bozo's and idiots were buying them

    Watch what you say body. There's no need to label 50% of the car drivers in this country as you described.

    On the other hand, didn't someone here called those runaway Toyota drivers dummies because they did not know how to shift to neutral?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,155
    > didn't someone here called those runaway Toyota drivers dummies because they did not know how to shift to neutral?

    Others also referred to many of the over 50 buyers of toyota-lexus as incompetent because they were pushing the gas pedal instead of the brake pedal and causing the "alleged" runaway acceleration events.

    Of course they also blamed their cellphones, their calls to their husband, their prayers to God, faking the lexus restarting while trying to get it on the AAA tow truck, the past financial history of the owner, the porn business of the owner, a highway patrol officer being an incompetent driver and not shifting into neutral or pressing on the brake to stop, etc., etc., etc. image
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,162
    Toyota should be gravely concerned if it comes down to this:

    "$99 down! $99 a month on a new Toyota Camry at the Cherry Hill Triplex...!"
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