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Ford Excursion vs Chevy Suburban/GMC Yukon XL - The battle of the titans

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Comments

  • jenlbirdjenlbird Member Posts: 1
    I am considering a sub or ex depending on several of the factors already discussed at length here. Thank you all for your input. One thing I have heard about subs is that there is a plant in Mexico and a plant somewhere in the States and that Mexican-built subs should be avoided. I am in Texas so I am assuming most of the new subs here would be from Mexico. Can anyone tell me if there is any validity to this story?
  • dmezdmez Member Posts: 3
    As far as I can find out, all Suburbans have their final assembly in Mexico. According to www.carpoint.com that is. The Fords are all built in their Kentucky truck plant along with all the Super Duty trucks. And I agree, I try to avoid anything assembled in Mexico. Quality is just not the same. I'm an electrician and we get a lot of products "Made in Mexico" now and quite frankly the quality is horrible compared to US manufacturing of the same product but the cost to the consumer is the same. EXPENSIVE! I can't see that their vehicle manufacturing would be any different. Hope this helps.
  • retractretract Member Posts: 13
    Both the US assembled and the Mexican assembled SUV's are very well made. This is mainly due to the "design for manufacture" strategy that was/is employed. The Mex assembled Suburban/Yukon XL is likely to be slightly better than the Janesville built Tahoe/Yukon. Some reports do support this. In any case, the parts are all the same US-made components made by GM's suppliers and are only as good as the supplier.
    Here is one BIG difference:
    In Mexico, the assembly worker has one of the most prized jobs in the whole country. If they get slack and start causing QA problems, then they are fired on the spot and replaced by another very eager worker.
    In Janesville, or ANY US automotive plant, the job security and many other dynamics of the worker/management relationship prevents this ultimate job motivation. I have spent a good deal of time in the assembly and powertrain plants and observed this relationship first hand.
  • figmomanfigmoman Member Posts: 55
    Arthur,retract on post 218 could not have stated it better. Do not be aprehensive of the Mexico built vehicle. I have had a Jainsville suburban and a Mexican which I currently have now that has better body panel fit than the US one. BTW, the US one was returned as a LEMON. The Figmoman
  • franmike3franmike3 Member Posts: 1
    I also had apprehension about Mexico production but I have 2 Yukon XLs--both made there and the quality is top-notch--no complaints. I had a 94 Sub made in Janesville and that was fine, too.
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Mine is a long story, but I will try not to give too much unnecessary info or risk being chided by my wife for babbling. We have decided to get a full sized camper trailer. We are a 3 child/one large dog family and currently own both a 99 Toyota Sienna minivan and a 92 Nissan Pathfinder. Have loved them both, and know that we made the best decisions when buying them. As you probably notice however, neither is capable of pulling a 25' trailer, so we need to buy a towing vehicle. Now we have children, safety is our first concern, and that is why we purchased the Toyota (the Windstar and Sub were the only other considerations) For our new purchase I narrowed the choices to the Sub, Exc, and also considered the new F150 Supercrew with 4 full doors. The truck would be my usual vehicle, and only transport the kiddies when travelling. (The van has a much more convenient layout for putting 3 kids into car seats on a daily basis)
    The glaring deficiency in both the of the Ford products is the complete lack of any head restraint in the rear seat. (back seat in F-150 or 3rd row in Exc) That means, that in a couple of years when the kids are big enough, at least one of them is at much grater risk of neck injury in a rear end collision. I am much more sensitive to this because a girl was killed here recently after being rear ended waiting to turn left on a highway. She was sitting on a bench truck seat and died of severe neck/head injuries. Others in the vehicle who had head restraints were Ok. How can anyone market an upscale vehicle like this without full head restraints? At least the Suburbans have 4 head restraints in the 2 back rows.
    I live in Northern BC, and this is really 4x4 truck country. Lots of snow and ice, and at least 50% of the vehicles driving around are 1/4 tons or bigger. Personally, I much preferred the feel of the Excursion to the mushy no feedback feel of the Sub, and I found it felt more solid. The new Subs feel tinny and cheap to me. There is no way that their interior trim or finish is up to what should be seen in a vehicle of that price. I don't remember having that impression when we considered them in 98-99 against the minivans. Do previous owners have the same feeling? Yes, gas will be more expensive, but there are so many things I preferred about the Exc. However, if there is no way to get head restaints for our third child, it is a mute point. I will not buy the vehicle. Does anyone have any info on this?
    Some may think I am an overanxious parent, but before you judge, visit the IIHS web-site for safety info re. head restraints. They should be considered in the same scale as seatbelts, and there is no way you would want your child riding without a seatbelt.
    Volkov
  • retractretract Member Posts: 13
    Review my post #85 above and then read my statement below. I hope this helps.
    Regarding the "the mushy no feedback feel of the
    Sub, and I found it felt more solid" Comment: I respect your opinion, but I own or have recently owned 2 Saab 9000 Turbos, 1 Saab 900 Turbo, a Porsche 911, A Ford Expedition, A 91 Suburban, and a 2000 Suburban. The 2000 Suburban (with Autoride) drives like the Saabs even when towing 9000 lbs. Expedition is far better than the Excursion for keeping its tires planted on the pavement but they both feel as though they ride on $4.99 shock absorbers. They both feel top-heavy. The burb, IMO, drives like all next generation truck will drive is it uses modern multi-link rear and computer assisted shocks.
    Did you test one with the Autoride and did you drive the Exc on a rough road? Don't make your decision until you have. As far as the interior goes, the Burb and Exc both have plastic interiors. I don't see a big difference here especally when you have been driving around in more plastic interiors.
  • bluehogbluehog Member Posts: 1
    Hi #225
    good luck with your excursion, where did you
    find 2.9% financing and for how many months. The
    best I've seen here at the Ford Dealer was 5.9% for 36 months.
  • bartsimsonbartsimson Member Posts: 3
    It is Ford motor credit and it is 2.9 for 5 years. At least that was mine. Head restrains. Do school busses or public transportation have them, no, because of the size of the vehicle and the location I guess. Many vehicles do not have side air bags. The Ex did not have one but I still bought it. You have to weigh those factors in any vehicle. 4 wheel drives are easier to roll over which may be a little harder on the head and neck than a rear end collision maybe getting a 4 wheel drive is not as a safe decision. Should the Ex have head restraints ( I assume you mean head rest) sure, I think they should do it in the future, there may be a reason they don't, I don't know. Because the airbag cannot be disabled if you put your kid in the front seat he may be killed, not by the crash but by the bag, seems unsafe to me. Maybe older children should not be put in the back seat. My Ex has the backup warning system to prevent you from backing over your young children or their friends. How could any company produce a vehicle that sits as tall as these and trucks do not have that feature? I believe in the future all vehicles will have it. So my point? As with everything the longer the companies are around the safer they get. They don't all move at the same time but there are moving in the direction of safety.

    The ride is subjective, different people feel differently about it and who cares how a Saab handles, some people don't like the way it handles. That is why it is subjective. The EX vs Sub is a better comparison. The suspension system on the Sub is more modern and when I rode it, it felt slightly better handling but it didn't handle as well as my short bed 4x4 Chevy truck. (Which is as poor a comparison as the Saab). The EX is roomier inside. That is not subjective; the numbers show the EX to be 4 inches more shoulder and hip room and more head room. Is the Sub slightly better ride, slightly more quiet, 2 mpg gas economy increase $10,000 better? It may be cliché but that seems to be the $10,000 question. (Priced a similar featured Sub on the Chevy web site and it was $44,000 not to mention 2.9 5 year financing and availability. Chevy offers 0% financing on the blazer during truck month (no suprise there) but not on Silverado, Tahoe, Sub.)
  • 4sons4sons Member Posts: 1
    My choice has narrowed between the Ford Excursion Diesel and the Suburban 1500 with the 5.4 litre V8.

    Any experience with these two vehicles?

    I do not tow anything yet, but I am not ruling it out (boat or maybe camper in the future).

    I like the diesel for the increased mileage and longevity vs the Ford V8 and V10. Any ideas of the mileage I can expect with these various engines? The dealership says 10-12mpg with the V8 and V10 while with the diesel I can expect a little over 20mpg on the highway.

    I have driven both (only once each) and the suburban seems more nimble which is to be expected due to the excursions size. I really like both vehicles.

    How will the Chevy V8 hold up? Any major problems with this engine (5.4 liter) or transmission? Many recommend the Diesel, but these are primarily Ford people. There are still alot of Suburbans on the road so they must be holding up. Right?

    I am just looking for advice, my family has outgrown the minivan and we do alot of outdoor recreation (camping, kids sports, etc..).

    Thanks,

    4sons
  • figmomanfigmoman Member Posts: 55
    I have a 2000 sub. This is my 4th GM truck and while ive had trouble with the last three, this is a keeper. It is a fresh design and they have addressed the problems of the past. Im very happy with mine. It is very smooth and quiet, stops well and for its size, gets good mileage. I average 16 MPG for all around driving, have got as high as 20 on the road. It is very nimble for its size. Do not be afraid of the Mexico build! You cannot tell the difference between the two and frankly i think the mexican worker values his job much more than the "protected" union worker and might be a little more concientious in doing a good job. I think ford puts out a fine vehicle too. The excursion is built on the super duty platform and I am building a second one into a fire truck at work as we speak. I have dissasembled the cabs and dashboards extensively and added and modified the wireing. What I have found with both Ford and GM is excelent build quality. The power stroke diesel is an excelent motor but an expensive option that will take a lot of driving to offset the cost of the option versus mileage. I prefered the smooth quiet luxury ride myself. The ford will definetly have a more truckish ride and realize that you will be hauling almost 2000 pounds more vehicle weight around which definatly impacts mileage with the gas motor. A real plus for the ford is you can make a much better deal on the cost. GM is selling them as fast as they make them so its hard to deal. Good luck with your choice and let us know what you decide. Mike
  • dmezdmez Member Posts: 3
    If your only consideration is the diesel over the gas for the improved mph, you have to consider that it will take approximately 36,000 miles to the break even point. Also, the fact that a gas engine doesn't even need a tune-up for 100,000 miles shows that the maintenance factor is low too. I am very fond of diesel engines. It is very hard to kill them. If you are doing a lot of heavy towing then the diesel might be the way to go. I have the V-10 in my Ex and tow a 7500 lb. trailer with no problem. Also have a 1986 Ford F-250 with International diesel with 200,000 miles on it. The engine runs great but the truck is no longer street legal. The body and along with everything else just wasted away. So that's part of the problem. The diesel engine will out last the rest of the truck with no problem.

    I too considered the diesel when I ordered my truck but I figured the longest that I would probably keep this truck would be ten years max and figured the gas engine would suite me fine and so far I'm not sorry for the decision.

    Another factor about diesels is that they liked to be driven. They are not a good choice for the 1 mile ride down to the store and back. They need to be run hot. My brother is a diesel mechanic and says that the worst thing for a diesel engine is a quick hop and not letting it get hot. It can damage the turbo charger over time and that is a costly item to replace. Ford guarantees the turbo charger for 100,000 miles but for a diesel that's just getting broken in.

    I hope all this information is helpful.
  • kspace7kspace7 Member Posts: 1
    I currently own a 99 Suburban and am contemplating trading the lemon on a 2000 Exc. Limited. For any readers who want the facts, go to www.gmclemon.com. When I first visited, I thought it was sour grapes. Now 36,000 miles later, It's almost scary how I've experienced most of the same problems with my Mexican built Suburban. Undersized brakes, premature brake wear, pulling to right when brakes are applied, broken door handles, cracked windshield, chirping heater fan are a few of my complaints. Last week I discovered the factory battery leaked acid out of the positive terminal and corroded the lead so bad that the post fell out of the battery.
    With 36,472 miles my battery cables were out of warranty. No problem my $1,700 extended warranty will cover it! Wrong again! Battery cables aren't covered, and neither is towing on uncovered components. I changed it in the rain. Took two pair of vice grips to free the cable from the bolt after it fell out of the battery. Later learned 1995-1997 GMC Sub's and Yukon's are currently being investigated by the government for the same problem. Before buying a Suburban, I urge everybody to research GMC's technical service bulletins, and visit the National Highway Transportation web site before they choose to purchase a GMC Suburban. Listed there are hundreds of complaints to the government, many similar to those listed above.
  • ddfrog98ddfrog98 Member Posts: 1
    A lot of people say the Excursion is too big. Its only nine inches longer than a Suburban. It is actually the same length as my extended cab short bed pickup. If thats too big than a lot of trucks should be taken off the road. A lot of people say it gets bad mileage, I remember when most cars didn't get as good as the Excursion gets. There has been a lot of advancements in engine technology and for the power out put there shouldn't be any complaining. I own horses and when I am going somewhere with horses I would rather have something bigger so I can carry my horses and the riders. No small SUV can carry all the tack and the riders while pulling a 8,000-9,000 lbs trailer. Most people have a reason for having an SUV that big. Quit complaining. If you don't want something that big than don't buy it.
  • flmom2flmom2 Member Posts: 1
    I am so happy with my 2000 Excursion. The only bad thing about it is the gas mileage in town, but with everything there is a tradeoff,our comfort and safety for less mileage is fine. My husband was driving it on Friday on the interstate and the construction truck in front of him lost a 5 foot long steel pipe, it hit my new truck then ricocheted off to the next lane and hit a mini van. We have a salad plate size dent in the bumper, the van has $3000 of damage and had to be towed. If my husband had been driving his BMW he would have had a steel pipe for a passenger and probably would have been killed. We agree that we will only replace this with another one when it is time to do so. I have driven a friends suburban and I think that this drives much easier and I do not have a problem parking at all.
  • acobraacobra Member Posts: 1
    I've seen posts relative to K & N packages on Excursions and effects on mileage. Can those of you that have K & N installations, give me info on what specific installs you did and the effect? I have a 2000 Limited with a V-10 and 3:73 gears. I get decent mileage, but if I can get even more power and mileage I'm all for it!

    Thanks
  • subscursionsubscursion Member Posts: 1
    I have owned 3 subs over the past 15 years. I have loved all of them. I am sure the new gen. is another great unit. I am disappointed in the reduction in interior storage space behind rear seat. All of my subs have been low maintenance / low problems.

    Still I am seriously checking out the PSD Ex. I really like the machine. I am having a problem with the dealers (most don't know a truck from a tonka.)
    Questions:

    I want to order an Ex without all that body molding crap. Can you do that? If not, does it come off easily... without damaging paint etc? Are the cloth captain seats in the XLT the same as the leather captain seats (obviously except the shell)? Has anyone had any experience with the Banks power products upgrades to the PSD? What kind fuel mileage are the PSD Ex's getting?
    Is the interior of an XLT the same as an LTD (with XLT options added to equal the LTD and I know the XLT does not come with the wood grain fluf.)

    This has been a great thread. I hope some of you can help me fill in a few of the blanks that the dealers can't.
  • cack999cack999 Member Posts: 4
    Subcursion,

    Any Ford Excursion brochure should be able to answer most of your questions.

    Ans, Limited Excursions come with the mold, XLTs do not. You can take them off on the Limiteds but wouold have to scrape off some double sided tape. I heard of this from someone, I'd keep it if I had the Limited, maybe repaint it the same color as the whole truck. Seats are the same, the front middle 9th seat does not come in leather. All Limiteds and XLTs with Conveninece package which also has leather have a center console instead of the seat. Banks I heard is good, so are other upgrades for the diesel. Kenne Belle supercharger for the V10 but why?? 300+hp is enough for me. Check out ford-diesel.com forums for more info. As long as you get the Convenience package with the XLT, it's almost the same as the Limited, except no wood, no Limited embroidery and mine had no rear sensor warning thing. I think fog lights are an option on the XLT. I had to have silver so I had to get an XLT. Just check out the brochure, that's the most accurate info. Forget the guys that drive a pinto at the dealer.

    FYI, there are a few changes on what's standard and what's an option between the 2000 and 2001 models.

    Good luck,
    C
    cedosada@hotmail.com
  • joker1joker1 Member Posts: 3
    Anyone know if Ford will offer power pedals for the Ex?
  • lovrienlovrien Member Posts: 1
    have a 97 Expedition with 58K and have never
    had a problem. My wife wants a 3rd seat for our
    children and a chevy dealer has a Blk 96 Suburban
    K1500 with 4WD. It has 64K and as he claims " good
    Maint. record". The dealer will trade straight
    across.Is there any advice on this model from
    anyone ? I'd love to hear an opinion.

    Cheers
    john
  • danjon12danjon12 Member Posts: 3
    Lovrien,
    Before you trade the Expedition for the Suburban, go take a look at the Edmunds Suburban Townhall site. The number of blown engines and trannys is amazing.
  • cathacatha Member Posts: 1
    Help me out here... I've searched the car lots and seem to find the 2001 Suburban on of the best vehicles on the lots. I've read the problems some are having with the older models, is the 2001 LT w/ the 5.3 worth almost 40,000? Please advise!
  • rbogarrbogar Member Posts: 2
    I put a K & N filter in, not for the milage, just to let the engine breathe a little better and for the cost, it's cheaper than replacing the filter a couple of times.

    I have not seen any noticable increase in milage....
  • excursionman1excursionman1 Member Posts: 2
    If you would of been a real man you would of bought a FORD EXCURSION. Just you wait when your trans goes out and the dealer won't repair it for you. Than you'll be wishing you would of bought a real truck and not the mickey mouse mexican made sub. My deepest sympathy for you.
  • wrambowwrambow Member Posts: 1
    I just purchased a 2000 Suburban 4X4 and it is a fantastic truck. I drove the Excursion and found that although very well appointed, the ride and overall performance was lacking. When I went to the Ford dealership, the first two I wanted to test drive wouldn't even start!! I finally got behind the wheel of the diesel and found it very loud on the interior and the ride was much like a tank with leather seats.

    Ford is currently having sales issues with the Excursion for a number of reasons: 1) It is too high to fit in most garages and parkades. The dealership had the "manager demo" that had to be lowered just to be used in downtown areas. (This is funny because I believe that I read the clearance of the Suburban is greater, headroom difference is negligible, but overall height is 7 inches lower than the Excursion). 2) The truck rides very poorly. 3) Fuel economy is beyond brutal. A person AT THE DEALERSHIP stated that you do not want the V10. Avg economy is around 3 in the city and 10 on the highway. OUCH! The diesel is better, but very loud and expensive.

    Now, onto chevy. I owned a 95 Chev Z71 extended cab before this and found it to be an outstanding truck. Other than routine maintenance, I never had any issues that required any expensive or lenghthy repair times. (I fixed the seat that I broke through misuse and replaced the starter beginning to end in less than an hour). That's IT!

    The new Suburban (2000+) has some incredible improvements. It's ride and comfort are second to none (including Expeditions) and are a real pleasure to drive. The ladies of the house should also feel comfortable driving this as visibility is good and steering is very light. I purchased the LS model (Loaded except for leather as leather is too cold in Canada!!) It has ALL the creature comforts one could ask for. The new 5.3 vortec is very modest on gas compared to the Ford products, yet power and towing capabilities are not compromised. I average close to 19-20 in mixed driving... Let's see Ford pull this off!!

    I honestly went into this purchase with an open mind and researched and drove everything I could to come to this decision. Let's face it, these are not cheap vehicles and this decision should not be taken lightly. All things considered fairly and objectively, the Suburban wins hands down. Believe me, if Ford had the best, a Ford is what I would be driving, but it simply does not have all the technology offered in the Chevy and has a lot of refinements needed in order to compete.

    Right now is a great time to buy a 2000. I was offered a great deal PLUS .9% for 4 years or 2.9% for 5 years (keep in mind this was in Canada).

    Good luck in your decision and I hope the information above is helpful.
    Wayne
  • danjon12danjon12 Member Posts: 3
    "Rides like a tank with leather seats" hmmm sounds good to me. That tank-like protection is one reason I bought an X for my wife and 4 kids. Also Suburban owners will be into their second or third engines just on normal wear when the Powerstroke Diesel is just geting broken in. I'm not even considering egine problems. I too was torn between the two, , Subs. vs. X., until I visited the Suburban website at Edmunds. Every other message is about a blown engine or tranny. Some people may luck out and get a good product, but overall the reliability of GM products is lousy. I then test drove an X and owned it 15 minutes later. And I got 0.9% for 5 years.
  • figmomanfigmoman Member Posts: 55
    "Every other message is about a blown engine or tranny"You were reading a different suburban website than the rest of were.
  • danjon12danjon12 Member Posts: 3
    Go to Edmunds Suburban website and you'll see in the Forums listed that under Suburban they've even started a forum entitled "Reliability?Suburban". Then go into that site and start counting.
  • figmomanfigmoman Member Posts: 55
    The forum you speak of talks about any year of suburban not just 2000,2001. The 99 and older did have a lot of problems. I know, i had one. I now have a 2000 and am very happy with it. I have been reading the "Reliability? Suburban" and other related posts for one year now. That is what prompted me to look into and order a new one. Mike
  • rickintxrickintx Member Posts: 1
    I'm looking at trading my 99 Suburban w/ 454 for Excursion Ltd w/ P'stroke, but have been told that Ford may retire the Exc. Any truth to this? Or is it a malicious rumor by Chev salesman?
  • michaellehrmichaellehr Member Posts: 2
    The 2002 GMC Yukon XL is going to have a new radio with 100 nationwide channels and 2 satellites beaming the signals. Also, the Quadrasteer all-wheel drive option and the Duramax Diesel engine option.

    The 2002 Ford Excursion will have adjustable pedals. That's it? Come on Ford!
  • excursionman1excursionman1 Member Posts: 2
    good for gmc you better run out to the dealership when they first come out, so you can get one. Better yet, if you want a real truck go to your local ford dealership.
  • dicksiedicksie Member Posts: 4
    I have finaly decided to take the plunge and buy a 2001 big block Suburban or GMC. Even though I do some towing, I have decided to forgo the 410 read end for the stock ratio. What kind of gas milage can I expect?
  • pluskinpluskin Member Posts: 79
    There is no truth to the rumor that Ford is retiring the Excursion. It makes a ton of money.
  • kreykrey Member Posts: 41
    What I've been told by a buddy who owns a local ford dealership is that he understands they are in the process of a bottom-up redesign of the Excursion, probably for 2003. He said too many people have complained about the height problems and the ride. The owner's son actually got stuck in a parking garage recently when he went up to the city to see a baskeball game. I'm told it was not funny.

    As for all the money they're making, I'm not too sure about that. True, they have a hell of a profit margin in these trucks, but you gotta have sales to make the money. Right now they're trying to give these trucks away where I live...$7-9K off msrp for a new 2001 limited.

    To be fair, demand for all new large SUV's is down, with the exception of the new Sequoia, but the Excursion is taking the biggest sales hit by far.
  • pluskinpluskin Member Posts: 79
    Excursion will be getting a redesign, but only as part of the natural life cycle of its design, and certainly not for 2003MY. In fact the redesign has been pushed back from original plans.
    As for profitability, even with sales slow, I wouldn't worry about it. This is a big winner for Ford. Also, Ford can also simply build more Superduty trucks when Ex sales are slow. Can you really get one for $9K off MSRP?
    Don't most parking garages have a height restriction at the entrance? The owner's son sounds like an idiot.
  • phil62phil62 Member Posts: 6
    Yep, they're really selling 'em that cheap. I live in the Beaumont, Texas area and one dealer just east of here a week ago was advertising three of the 4x4 loaded Limiteds for a little over $32K (MSRP more than $42K.) I'd have bought one too, if it weren't for the height and parking issue. Not all garages post the clearance as well as they should, and if you phone their security staffs or attendants, half the time they don't know the clearance of their own garage. Besides, what if you get into one of these huge concrete labyrinths and then the clearance is lower further in? What a nightmare! I think if I can afford it I'm going with a Sequoia -- not quite as big as I want but it'll fit more places and will have significantly better reliability than the GM (and probably Ford) products. Just my two cents.
  • tcadamstcadams Member Posts: 2
    phil62, we are looking for an Excursion and would have no problem going to Texas to buy one ( we're in Colorado ). What is the name of the dealership advertising the $10K off MSRP price?
  • phil62phil62 Member Posts: 6
    I believe that dealer was Orange Ford/Lincoln-Mercury. They're in Orange, Texas, which is on I-10 just a few miles from the Louisiana border, so that's a heck of a drive from your neck of the woods. Here's the info: address is 16th at Green Avenue; e-mail www.orangeford.com; phone 1-800-817-5255. If it looks like you'll buy one from them, please e-mail me at riddle@ix.netcom.com. Maybe you could mention my name so they'd have warm fuzzy thoughts about me if I do decide to pick one of their machines. :) Good luck.
  • protravelprotravel Member Posts: 19
    "The new 5.3 vortec is very modest on gas compared to the Ford products, yet power and towing capabilities are not compromised. I average close to 19-20 in mixed driving... Let's see Ford pull this off!!
    "
    Well FORD did pull this off and did better. I'm getting 22-24 mixed driving and paying a lot less for diesel than you are for gas.

    I have the PSD Excursion and is NOT loud in fact it is quieter when it hits speed than any vortec the planet.
    Now for the whiners gripping about parking garages, give me a break, the MEN who drive Excursions add 3"-5" lifts on to their TRUCKS and the operative word being truck NOT Chevy station wagon. So we that build our truck even HIGHER than factory could care less about parking in some downtown garage, that we will never go to or park in anyway.
    Why don't we complain on why the Excursion doesn't go 150 MPH
    at the drag strip, or why it can't fly ...get real. It is what it is! The MOTHER of all trucks with enough power to tear a Suburban in half.

    Since when is it a good thing to have a mushy ride in a truck. Oh, I know, when it's a Suburban Station wagon.

    I read all the Hundreds of posts regarding lousy suburbans and tranny's etc, and the most incredible thing - all these Chevy guys complain about how the Suburban is falling apart, ( Brakes, tranny Rear end etc) and then on the next breath say it's the best vehicle they have owned HUH!!!!!. Ya, but its OK now they fix'd all the problems in the 2000. Ha Ha Ha Ha. Ya, right.

    Let me get this straight, Suburban has been around for 65 years according to the commercial, and just now in 2000 - 2001 they got it right. Can I just ask one question here - What took them so long?

    Ford first year out of the shoot, and it is heads and tails over a 65 year old WANNABE.

    Does anybody doubt who would come out a winner if a Suburban and an Excursion were in a head on accident...I think NOT.

    For no other reason with all the nuts on the road, you want to be driving in that tank with leather seats. Now that is music to my ears.

    And as far as all the complaints regarding PSD Excursions from Chevy guys, I can tell you it's ALL bunk. And this is from someone who drive one every day, not a three minute ride at the dealership.
  • kreykrey Member Posts: 41
    Interesting, though not uplifting, diatribe but the problem with your logic is simply that the majority of drivers of both suburbans and excursions are WOMEN, not men. They do use parking garages and have to fit their vehicles into the insanely small parking spaces at supermarkets and schools. Good thing too, because us men like to eat and know that our kids are being taken care of while we men are out "slaying all the dragons."

    No, real MEN drive whatever they need to get the job done, nothing more. Those who drive big, jacked-up trucks just to look good are nothing more than WIMP wannabes.
  • phil62phil62 Member Posts: 6
    I am soooooo embarrassed. Imagine my chagrin in discovering a sexual identity crisis as I approach middle age. As I recall, my analysis of my automotive needs -- which I thought utilized logic and practicality -- was based on several considerations:
    1. I've got a wife (Sob; how will I ever face her?) and three kids.
    2. I engage in such effeminate hobbies as surf fishing and astronomy.
    3. A large suv with four-wheel drive might be just the ticket, if I can afford it.
    4. The wife and I have frequent business in the big city (Houston, for the geographically challenged), and will probably soon be living there again.
    5. The wife will be the main driver of the machine.
    6. The Suburban would be ideal, but as our esteemed friend pointed out, has lousy reliability.
    7. Since to my great shame I lack sufficient body parts in the, ahem, lower frontal regions, I am not able to work, live, play exclusively in the country. Therefore, the Excursion would probably be too big for me.
    8. The Expedition and Sequoia remain as options. Dilemma: Sequoia reliability will probably be better than the Ford, but costs about $10K more.

    Due to the above, I'm leaning toward the Sequoia, but no final decision yet. And finally, with regards to "gripping" about parking garages, I must reluctantly agree that I shouldn't do it. After all, as useful as opposable thumbs are, engaging in such behavior in the vicinity of attractive young housewives in parking garages could get a guy arrested -- questionable orientation or not. Oops, I've gotta' go; there's a run in my pantyhose.
  • kreykrey Member Posts: 41
    Great post!

    Back to business, however. I too looked at the Sequoia and, frankly, if it hadn't been for the fact that it's the first year of the model, I would have opted for one instead of the Yukon we got instead. I've had several Toyotas before, and have had zero problems. The build quality and durability were great. I just never, ever, buy the first year of anything. I've heard a few (there are not many of these on the road yet) complaints about the 4wd and traction control systems; we live where there are lots of snow and ice, so people around here are pretty sensitive about those things.

    As to which car is really better, it depends...on needs, and a lot of luck. Truthfully, I 've got a lot of friends and acquaintances who own both the Ford and the GMC. Most have had great experiences, others not. I wish there wasn't as much luck involved as there is, but so it goes. But, and this is just my opinion, Ford missed the mark with the Excursion. The beast is simply too tall and the turning radius is unbelievable. If Ford fixes those details, it's a player.

    My $0.02 worth
  • phil62phil62 Member Posts: 6
    Thanks for the kudos. I also have to say you raise a good point re: first year manufacture of a vehicle. It's only because it's a Toyota that I would even consider a first year. I have a 92 Honda Accord, while my brother has had several Toyotas and a Honda. Without exception, they have been quality vehicles, and have rarely needed anything other than routine maintenance. Since this is an Excursion/Suburban topic, however, I should get back on track. One thing I've been curious about is the diesels in both makes. Any of you folks have data, anecdotes or opinions on the relative merits and reliability of the diesel engines in the Ford vs. the GM? Thanks.
  • jkidd2jkidd2 Member Posts: 218
    This is similar to our last election, I guess I'll vote for the lesser of two evils....the Suburban.
  • tcadamstcadams Member Posts: 2
    Phil62,

    The new GM diesel, the Duramax, is -- according to what I've read on the web -- not going to be available in the Burb until the 2003 model year :-(

    When it is available, I've read, it is not going to be mated to the Allison transmission. (IMHO I believe that GM is really missing the boat here by not making the Allison available with the Duramax.) Also, apparently GM is going to "de-tune" the Duramax so that it will not tear up the tranny currently in the Burb. So, you will be able to get a diesel but not the diesel/tranny configuration currently available in the HDs.

    Hopefully the Duramax will become the same class engine that Ford's PSD is today. Only time will tell.

    As for the PSD...here is some information that I've pulled off the www.ford-diesel.com site regarding statements made during a presentation by Lew Echlin, Ford's Marketing Manager for Super Duty and Excursion products:

    begin quote ->
    "Recently I had the opportunity to give a presentation to over 3000 of our Ford Dealers during an intensive set of Dealer meetings meant to prepare them for the coming year. I was talking about only the toughest trucks - the over 8500 lbs GVW type, like our beloved F-250s though F-550s. Now, while I went on and on about the technical dominance of F-Series Super Duty trucks over their Dodge and new Chevy and GMC competitors, I stopped dead in the middle of the speech and asked 'How can we talk F-Series Super Duty without talking about Powerstroke?' the engine that made Super Duty what it is today. As if on cue, many Dealers knowingly shook their heads, because they know that we CAN'T talk about F-Series Super Duty trucks without talking about Powerstroke diesel.

    So I devoted the rest of my speech to the new facts on the Powerstroke engine for 2001 and how it stacked up to the new Isuzu/GM Duramax engine, and I thought I share these facts with you.

    There are three things that Powerstoke has at its very foundation of toughness:
    1) Powerstroke is Proven in the market among customers like you
    2) Powerstroke doesn't just look good on paper, it has 'street credibility' as the work engine and
    3) Powerstroke is NOT a high maintenance, temperamental engine, it's designed for easy and low maintenance. In my effort to keep you empowered with key facts about F-Series Super Duty and Excursion, let's give you some key 'did ya knows'.

    Ford Powerstroke is Proven in the Market. Did you Know:

    - Powerstroke is the best selling engine in its class, Diesel OR gas
    - Powerstroke outsells all diesel competitors, combined
    - Powerstroke has been proven in over 1 million Built Ford Tough trucks
    - Statistics show that even at 250,000 miles in service, 90% of Powerstroke engines have no repairs requiring head, pan or front cover removal.

    Powerstroke is the Work Engine. Did you Know:

    - The turbo charged Power Stroke turbo diesel provides peak power sooner, reaching peak torque power at 1600 RPM vs. 1800 RPM for Duramax.
    - Power Stroke has an industry leading low-pressure common rail fuel system that is electronically controlled and hydraulically activated (HEUI), technology borrowed from medium truck applications.
    - Power Stroke offers a proven tough solid 'V' block design with uniform cast iron block and cast iron heads, while Isuzu/GM Duramax has cast iron block with aluminum heads.
    - Powerstroke now offers 520 ft./lbs. of Built Ford Tough torque in manual applications (and 505 in automatics)

    Powerstroke is Designed for Low Maintenance. Did you Know:

    -The lubrication system on the Powerstroke employs reusable gaskets.
    - Powerstoke has an easy-to-access, spin off fuel filter and a visible air filter cleaner reminder.
    - Powerstroke is so tough it has been certified for underground mining applications (and applied in countless other industries) and can even run on 'low lubricity' Diesel fuel like aviation fuel.

    And to back this all up, Power Stroke comes with a 5 year 100,000 mile warranty standard in every F250-550 and Ford Excursion."
    <- end quote

    Ford has some very impressive things to say about the PSD and GM is bringing a new engine to this party. The PSD has the lead but the Duramax has potential. As I stated earlier, only time will tell.
  • GexGex Member Posts: 1
    Any news on when the Excursion is getting the adjustable pedals option?

    It was suppose to be a 2000 model option.
  • bowhuntwi2bowhuntwi2 Member Posts: 80
    http://fordtruckstore.com for great deals and they ship to your local dealer..............
  • skeewb_4287skeewb_4287 Member Posts: 17
    Well, I started this discussion over a year ago to promote talk about the upcoming war between the two titans of the SUV realm. Little did I know that my discussion would turn out so large. One year later, we have 4 titanic SUVs on the market, even more reason to keep the talk(or war) going, so keep sharing your thought and opinions and maybe a Ford SUV loyalist and a GM SUV loyalist will come to their senses and just get a truck or a minivan ... or not.
  • lrc1lrc1 Member Posts: 2
    I also used Dodge Vans for towing my 26 and then 32 foot TT. They were great tow vehicles asp. the 94 with the Magnum 318. Then I purchased the X. V-10, 430 rear. My opinion is "NO Comparison"! The Excursion tows with much greater stability and ease. I have 45K plus on the beast. I have towed from Quebec to the Florida Keys. No problems with stability, rear end sag, cross wind sway etc. This truck can tow. Also I have not installed a rear end sway bar. Which I have installed on the vans. The X just don't seem to need it.
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