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YOUR QUESTION IS HERE
DBurk
Is it possible caused by the bad VSS, since the VSS had problem before burnt the fuse?
Thanks
Quick check on V.S.S. is to see if the cruise control maintains a speed. If the speed is maintained the V.S.S. is good.
You probably have a short some where . The instrument cluster is easy to remove Honda calls the instrument cluster a (Combination Gauge). With the cluster out try the fuse if it does not blow, may be short in cluster, move some wires around under dash and under hood. Be careful with the screws on the back of the Combination Gauge (fragile connections) If nothing works on the Combination Gauge and a fuse is blowing you have a short some where.
IIRC, my 95 had a tie rod issue that may be what you are experiencing.
The car unexpectantly dies within ½ - 1 mile from my house after I start it up first thing in the morning and start driving down the road. The problem is random. It hasn’t done this since I replaced the ignition control module (ICM) on February 8th, but died twice today (February 21th). I have taken about 10 or more trips with the car during this period. Some times I have gone 1-2 days between driving the car. Once I get past the 1 mile mark, without stopping at a nearby grocery, corner store, etc. it runs fine and will run fine the rest of the day. I’ve never had it die after the initial first start of the day *and* within the 1st mile of operation or stopping at a close market/store.
Additionally, the car idles under 500 RPMs (usually around 400 RPMs). According to my Haynes manual, the idle speed should be between 650 and 750 rpms with IAC valve connected. Also, there is no check engine light before or after the car dies unexpectantly.
So, now I’m wondering what I should try next to resolve this unsafe issue. Others have reported their cars dying even after running for a long time, but mine so far has only died within the 1st mile after starting it up after sitting overnight *or* for a day or so.
What would people on this forum suggest I troubleshoot next or try replacing?
Car: 2.2 liter (4 cylinder) NON-VTEC engine. The faulty ignition starter switch has been replaced (in 2002) that was part of a Honda recall. Local Honda dealership has tested this part and confirmed it is working properly.
Details:
On January 27, 2010 I purchased a used 1997 Honda Accord LX that had about 128,400 miles on it. The car had no maintenance records with it, so I was purchasing it “blindly.” When I was initially looking at the car, I started it up and let it run in the dealer lot for a few minutes and a couple of times it stalled while I was checking out the various functions of the car (A/C, door locks, radio, windows, etc.). The dealer chalked it up to the after market car alarm system installed and my extensive testing of the various peripherals. Due to the fact that the car wouldn’t start while the alarm system was engaged, I thought he was right and we just armed/de-armed the system to get the car to start up again. I took the car for a test drive had an independent Honda dealership do a full inspection of the car (worthless in the end) and everything checked out so I purchased the car - which was in excellent shape visually (inside and out).
Well about two days later the problem with the car not running smoothly started to crop up again. I left my house and drove about ¼ mile down the road to pick up some food before heading to a friend’s house and was in the store about 5 minutes and when I returned to my car, it started fine but stalled and it took me about 3-4 minutes and several tries to get it started and idling correctly. After this it ran fine, but I noticed while I was driving down the road, the tachometer jumped all around for a few seconds before “settling down” (this only happened once). The car ran fine the rest of the night.
The next day the same thing happened when I went to purchase some fuel injection cleaner (thinking this might be the problem) at the local auto parts store that is ¼ mile from my house. When I got out of the store, I couldn’t get the car started initially. It took several tries before I was able to get it running again.
The next instance of dying unexpectantly came on a rainy day right after I left my house. Within 1 mile of my house the car unexpectantly died while doing about 40 MPH. I couldn’t get the car restarted, so I had it towed to the dealer I bought it from. We were unable to reproduce the problem, so we expected the alarm system might be faulty causing the engine to cut off unexpectantly. So we disconnected it and I said I would monitor the problem and report back.
About 2 days later, it died after I turned into the parking lot of the grocery store down the street (about ¾ of a mile down the road). I was unable to get it to stay running each time after I got it started (about twice). I tried holding the RPMs at 2000, but after about 2-3 seconds of running, it would just die cold. I pushed it to the parking area, and called my mechanic and was going to have him listen to problem, and it started up just fine and ran fine.
After this I turned to the Internet and found several others who were having similar problems with their 1990 vintage Hondas. Many of the experienced Honda techs suggested the ICM module and external coil pack had gone bad (an apparently common problem with Honda Accords from this time period). So, on Feb 8th I replaced the ICM module (the old part was an original Hitachi ICM with the Japanese factory stamp on it) and put silicone heat transfer paste from Radio Shack on the module as well as the heat transfer plate.
The car has run great with no problems until this morning (February 21th) when it died twice within 1 mile from my house. Both times I was able to get the car to start right up unlike previous times when I had to wait 5+ minutes to get it to start again or try repeatedly for a few minutes. I even let the car warm up for a few minutes in the driveway of my house (this has never made a difference in the ongoing problem).
Update 10-9-2010:
Well, I have more concrete evidence to report on my particular problem. It looks like it is weather (temperature specifically) related. I haven't had one single mysterious stall since April/May when the weather here in Florida warmed up (above 80 degrees). Yesterday morning, October 6th, the thermometer said 71 degrees and after I started driving it down the road it stalled again. Two stalls within the first mile on October 7th. I drove the car in the late afternoon on October 8th after the temperature had warmed up, and the car did not die at all.
I looked at the circuit board for the fuel main relay yesterday (October 8th) and did not see any cracked solder joints which can cause problems. Anyone have any ideas on what parts might be affected by the cold morning temperatures?
Corkscrew
It sounds like this can also be caused by high humidity.
I have no experience with this code... I just googled it.
Thanks.
Honda Accord Heater knob is very easy to install by sliding off the metal stem.
:P
Should be able to find for around $6.00
-Matt
http://techauto.awardspace.com/ecu.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNBZ9snNpDc
-Steve
Corkscrew
http://www.mediafire.com/?7fmrt991ez2
Corkscrew
As I say, this may be normal and I've just never noticed it before, but if it is abnormal, I wonder if it might be diagnostic of some impending problem? In either case (normal or abnormal) I'd be curious as to what is causing the sound and would appreciate any explanation. Thanks.
See if you can eliminate the problem to electrical, fuel or mechanical.
Buy some starting fluid from parts store, Walmart, etc.
Find a place that you can introduce some of the fluid into the intake air flow,
Spray some in and see if the engine fires a few times. If it does it is a fuel problem.
Connect a timing light and see if it light up (flashes) as you try starting. If it does the distributer is probably okay. You can also pull a plug wire and with a plug held on a ground (metal, screw,etc on engine or frame) and see if there is a spark. A spark would also indicate the distributer is okay. Any wire is okay because you are not checking timing.
Take a heat gun or hair dryer and warm any/all wire connectors, sensors one at a time to see if the problem is affected and the engine starts. this includes the key switch.
I would think if you had a problem with a sensor there would be a check engine light on. Sensors can cause the problem. Example temperature sensors tell the ECM on how much fuel to supply.
Reply for follow up.
Check for bad battery, cables or loose connections.
Most parts stores will check/charge battery at no cost
Thanks,
R
All the 94's I have seen have a mechanical type indicator that can be reset with pressing the end of your key in at the indicator.
Whoever that was changing your oil must have been resetting it but not the last time.
Thanks to everyone who takes the time to help!
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This is a Honda ***DESIGN*** problem with the relay - this is one of the few defects in an otherwise very reliable vehicle. The heat produced by normal operation of the relay causes the metal mounting tabs to expand, however the Printed Circuit Board (PCB) is rigidly restrained, so the thermal expansion stress is transmitted through the solder joint. Eventually a high number of thermal cycles causes fatigue cracking in the solder joint (which it was not intended to resist).
Over a number of years, the crack progresses all the way through the joint, however the car will continue to operate as long as the cracked joint can maintain electrical conductivity (such as when it is cool in the winter). When it gets hot however, the combination of normal relay heating added to ambient temperature will expand the main relay solder joint apart and the fuel pump will lose electrical power (and the engine will stall).
The reason you may not have seen the crack when inspecting it visually is that the crack is finer than a human hair (you will need a 10X magnifying glass to see it - but it is there). The joint will test fine electrically when it is cold, but fail when it is hot. (If you have electrical ability and a schematic from the library, you can *manually* jumper the relay to perform the function the relay ought to performing. The stalled engine will start up and run normally - I operated for several months 'hot-wiring' the relay until I could get time to repair the relay - but I don't recommend this if you can just fix the relay).
If you're cash-strapped (who isn't these days?) and have a little mechanical ability, you can repair the part yourself (or have a friend do it). You'll need some socket wrenches with extensions to move some electrical boxes out of the way under the dash so the relay can be removed. Pop off the cover on the relay and look at the solder joints under a magnifying glass - there will be an extremely fine crack in the solder joint. Just re-solder the joint to "reset" the solder joint back to factory initial condition (only the main relay tabs are affected, and usually only one joint has a fatigue crack) and reassemble. You will get the same amount of life out of the relay you got the first time (~50,000).
Alternatively, take the car to the shop and have them replace the relay (~$70 plus labor - takes about 15 minutes if you've done it before). Your engine stalling will be a thing of the past (for the next 50,000 miles anyway - it will last as long as the first relay did).
Honda is aware this is a problem: I've replaced 4 relays on my and my friend's Hondas - they must have replaced virtually ALL of them. Honda is reluctant to fix the problem. A simple "Z-shaped" stress-relief notch in the PCB (which is commonly done in the consumer electronics world) would reduce the stress below the point it would become a problem. Honda probably figures that 50,000 mile failures will be beyond any warranty problem, and scrapping inventory would be $$$, so the problem persists. The replacement relay you would purchase WILL possess the same exact design defect.
This is a simple, quick fix for a known common problem on Hondas of this vintage.
There is a remote possibility that the fuel pump has some weird problem whereby it doesn't produce enough fuel pressure, but this is unlikely. Harbor Freight Tools has a pressure gage ($9) to check the fuel pressure in the injector rack. If the fuel pump is weak, it will register a low pressure on the gage, but a fuel pump is expensive to replace (~$400+) but I've not seen this problem on Hondas. Could be a flaky electrical connection also, but it is *99% sure* it is the fuel main relay.
Your low idle speed is likely a separate issue. Yes, a low fuel pump pressure could cause low idle speed, but if the pressure was THAT low you'd have problems accelerating away from a stop sign and the car would never operate smoothly.
Check the basics: The idle speed is computer-controlled, so you would suspect junk in the idle circuit, or more likely, a vacuum leak or unplugged/improperly plugged/cracked vacuum line. Replace any and all suspect vacuum lines (look for cracked rubber). If that doesn't fix the problem, look for vacuum leaks in the manifold area. Check your spark plug gaps. Check for proper operation of the Positive Crankcase Valve (PCV) valve or replace (it's not expensive) and clean out the manifold ports. If all of these items are in good condition, you ought to get a good idle. If not, you have a more complex situation and will need some tools to diagnose - at least the problem will be repeatable and not intermittent or unpredictable (like the relay).
Questions: What should struts cost installed, & what kind to get, & where? I saw someone here got Monroes. Or would OEM Honda struts be best, perhaps installed at a Honda dealer? TIA for any advice.
But roughly, ball park? Maybe $1000 -- $1200 bucks for quality parts and quality repairs. Maybe if you cut every corner, $750 to $800.
Or you can do a down and dirty chain store version but they'll probably try to oversell you.
And yes, weak struts can wear out tires, mostly definitely---it would be called "cupping" and once a tire exhibits cupping, it's toast.
You didn't describe the type of tire wear. While the struts could contribute to tire wear, it would more likely be the **'scalloped'** type of wear. If you have, however, wear on the **edges** of the tires, this is more likely due to alignment, and/or not rotating tires on schedule (every 5,000 mi). At 90k miles you should be looking at replacing suspension ball joints too.
If you push down on the fender and the car bounces up more than 1.5 times, the shocks/struts are worn. I have 200k on my Accord and the original struts are still fine - just depends on your situation.
From what I read you have been taken to the cleaners a few times as they say.
With a little time and about $150.00 dollars would have taken care of all your problems.
I suggest you sell it to sell it to some one who can give it a good home.