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Hybrids and Hypermiling - Tips on more miles per gallon
Let's discuss the Pros and Cons of driving styles, particularly the "Hypermiler" style, which leads to amazing fuel economy but sometimes irritates speeders.
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Also, from the perspective of the REST of the driving population (ie: the 'speeders'), it doesn't matter one iota what the aim of your driving style is (hypermiling). All that matters is you are holding up traffic.
What kills is not speed in and of itself. What kills is speed DIFFERENTIALS. If 90-95% of the drivers on a particular stretch of road are driving at 70-75, the 'dangerous' drivers are not those going 70-75, the dangerous drivers are those interupting traffic flow by driving at 60-65, creating a large amount of lane changing and slowing down/speeding up.
Is it more reasonable for the 5% of those going slow to pick up the pace with the rest of traffic OR is it more reasonable to expect the other 95% to slow down?
You have pointed out a big problem on freeways. If someone is plugging along at 60 MPH in the right lane just prior to an exit they will find people rushing to get past them then take the exit. In that case both the person not going with the flow and the fool trying to squeeze in to make the exit are at fault. If you are not able to at least go the speed limit during heavy traffic. Maybe you should stay off the freeway during heavy traffic.
Bingo!
If you are a hypermiler doing 20mph below average traffic speed on any road, you are a hazard regardless of posted speed limits.
You are more dangerous than the guy doing 20mph above average traffic speed, since in your case you cause more than 1 person to weave in and out, although you may feel self-righteous in doing so.
I beg your pardon sir - did you misspeak? Speed DOES NOT Kill, is that what you meant to say?
You are correct in one fashion - it's not the SPEED but the STOPPING FROM HIGH SPEED which kills.
You know there is a direct correlation between highway speed limits and roadway deaths?
http://fleetowner.com/news/speed_limit_repeal_maximum_120805/
Research by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) indicates 31 states have increased their speed limits to 70 mph or higher on some portion of their roadways since the repeal of the NMSL in 1995, and it said that global studies consistently show that when speed limits are increased, highway deaths on the roads go up.
In 1999, IIHS researchers compared the number of motor vehicle occupant deaths in 24 states that raised speed limits with corresponding fatality counts in the six years before the speed limits were changed – and estimated that there was a 15% increase in deaths on interstates and freeways.
Or:
http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051212/OPINION01/5121- 20311/1015
The association contends that police in 42 states routinely permit drivers to exceed the speed limit, which is obvious to anyone who uses highways around here.
So the PROBLEM is not people who drive too slow - it's the fact that in virtually EVERY STATE the police allow people to drive too fast.
Hypermiling will SLOW people down, and that is nothing but good.
"If you can reduce the speed, you can reduce crashes and the severity of crashes," Timmins said. "Everything is based on doing the proper speed limit: the curves of on and off ramps, the distance of passing zones, the size of signs, everything, and it all changes when you speed."
"The safety community is very frustrated," Harsha says. "We should have much more gains in highway safety than we're seeing."
Congress' repeal of the national maximum speed limit of 55 mph in urban areas and 65 mph on rural roads went into effect Dec. 8, 1995, enabling states to set their own limits. Since then, 31 of them raised their speed limits to 70 mph or 75 mph on some roads, the GHSA says.
Speeding is a major factor in about one-third of the 42,000 U.S. traffic deaths each year, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says.
"We are not advocating a return to the national maximum speed limit," Harsha says. "But we want more attention paid to the issue. We want speeding to be a national priority."
1.Who would go 20MPH under flow?
In a 70 limit would be 50,
50 would be 30,
45 would be 25.
2. Going 20 over the limit is extremely dangerous and will land you in jail in many areas.
You'd be driving 90 in a 70,
70 in a 50
65MPH in 45 (65MPH on residential streets not dangerous???)
(I truly hope you don't drive like that- although some still try it)
I'm not sure if you are aware but slower traffic stays right.
Which means the Left lane is the fastest, the next lane to the Right is a little slower, the next lane to the right of that is a little slower, etc.
You must be judging your traffic flow based on the far Left lane of a 5-7 lane freeway.
The far Left lanes in my Atlanta area flow at about 75MPH. (65 Limit 5 lane)
General traffic flow in the Right lane is about 58.
If you attempt to go your 85-95MPH in the right lane you'll hurt people or worse. You won't be able to swerve fast enough.
It's not the people causing the wreck minding their own business in the Right, but the speeders who need to swerve to maintain their gamebox type thrill.
And last, If the person in the far right lane gets gently passed 5 times over 20 miles of road, while the 85-95 MPH driver needs to aggressively swerve around 40 other speeders then who is creating a more dangerous situation?
Who will the side of the law be on when a wreck happens?
3. Isn't speed variation — not high speed— the real problem? No. Both variation and speed are important. Although research conducted in the 1950s on two-lane rural roads did indicate that vehicles traveling much faster or much slower than average were more likely to be involved in crashes,6 that study also showed that severe crashes increased with speed. The risk of death and severe injury is a direct exponential function of speed, not speed differences. Many differences in travel speeds are unavoidable because of the slower speeds of turning or merging vehicles. Higher speeds of the other vehicles exacerbate this problem. Besides, many crashes, and nearly half of those resulting in occupant deaths, are single-vehicle impacts in which differences among vehicle speeds play no role or only a very minor one.
http://www.iihs.org/research/qanda/speed_limits.html
Now the Hypermilers. They feel it is there god given right to drive whatever way they want as long as they save 2 cents worth of gas on their trip to work and back.
How does Joe Public view both groups.
I would imagine if I was a commuter with one or two passengers in my carpool, watching all the hybrids with one person, it would tick me off. To toss fuel on the fire they give you a big sign that says hybrid car. That means I don't have to conserve fuel by taking more than one passenger. I got a pass because some lame brain politicians do not understand the concept of car pooling is to ease congestion, not save someone gas money.
Hypermilers:
I can tell you they hate the guy in front of them creeping along to save a few pennies on gas. Probably making the comment to whoever he is talking to on the phone that, "some jerk in a hybrid is tying up the freeway".
So if I was the average person on the highway encountering a hybrid I would probably consider them a hazard. I am sure most of the hybrids do not have a big HOV sticker. I have not seen one in San Diego. And I have been passed at high speed by a Prius. I have only been held up once by an Escape Hybrid on a steep grade in rush hour traffic. I formed my opinion of the Ford Hybrid, at that time. Not enough power to get out of it's own way.
Or was it a goofy hypermiler?
They're not going slow, bottling up traffic or causing trouble.
"I formed my opinion of the Ford Hybrid, at that time. Not enough power to get out of it's own way.
Or was it a goofy hypermiler?"
This afternoon I passed a new looking Jetta tooling along in the Right lane. Everyone else had to pass him too.
Since it wasn't a hypermiler, it must either lack the power to overcome the hills in our area or the proverbial grandma driver.
One thing I noticed when gas was +3.00/g- many people simply driving slowly thinking they're saving on gas.
I always found it aggravating to get stuck behind them, especially when it was detrimental to economy.
Is this what you call a "hypermiler" or just a slow driver?
You see grandma with nose stuck on the glass bottling things up and report this as a hypermiler.
I don't think I would mistake the one for the other. I was stuck today at 30 MPH in a 45 zone behind an older woman that was too busy talking to her friend to be aware of her obstructing traffic. You have never advocated blocking traffic in the pursuit of better mileage. On the other side larsb has said many times it was best for the environment and his right to go slower if he felt it best suited his mileage.
So we have different approaches to hypermiling. You have mentioned you never thought it possible to get great mileage until you owned the HCH. I cannot fault you for that. A lot of people could save a lot of gas using your techniques.
My point is if the hybrids are to become popular the two mentioned stumbling blocks set up by the early hybrid adopters will have to be overcome. Once a stigma is attached it is difficult to remove it.
I hear more negative than positive remarks regarding hybrids.
"Speeding is a major factor in about one-third of the 42,000 U.S. traffic deaths each year, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says."
That means that two-thirds ( 67 percent) of traffic deaths are not caused by speeding.
Hypermilers are a defintie HAZARD especailly if they are in one of the leftmost lane.
However, last night I saw something worse, in the leftmost lane was a car going 20 mph under the speed limit, But it was okay becuase he/she had their hazard lights on. Maybe it should be a requirement that all hypermilers drive with their hazard ligths on, especailly if their chosen speed is substantially slower that the ambient traffic.
Cheers and Mery Christmas,
MidCow
P.S. - HOV means high occupancy, not high miles per gallon and HOVs are intended to facilitate traffic movement not to hypermile it down to a turtle's pace!
Do you agree that the access to HOV lanes by single occupant hybrids gives them a negative appearance? Along with the possible obstruction of traffic.
HOV lanes were allowing CNG vehicles and motorcycles LONG before anyone ever thought of encouraging hybrid purchases by granting HOV lane rights to owners of hybrid vehicles.
The single driver HOV privilege is about "doing the right thing for clean air" and it has been all along, before hybrids even.
Anything governments can do to increase ownership of CNG vehicles, HEVs, EVs, Fuel Cell, anything other than a straight gas or dirty diesel vehicles, it's good for ALL OF US in the long run.
Another lame brain political fiasco. I doubt in all CA there are 1000 private CNG vehicles using the HOV lanes. Over 40k hybrids have been sold in CA. There is a limit of 75K HOV permits to be issued. How does that cut down on congestion on the freeways? As has already been experienced in VA it has made the congestion worse. Leave the car pool lanes to car poolers "ONLY". You think it is great. I can tell you it will have a negative impact on the image of hybrids and hybrid owners.
There is no way two single occupant hybrids traveling 75 MPH in the HOV lane is better for the environment than two people in a Camry getting 30 MPG in the HOV lane.
that's not the point. The point is that every AT-PZEV Prius/HCH on the road that WAS going to be a SULEV or ULEV car is a benefit. That's the point entirely - ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO BUY AND DRIVE CLEANER CARS.
I thought that was what the Fat Juicy Tax Credit was supposed to do. Why don't we give free gas to everyone that buys a new hybrid. That would be more logical than congesting traffic more than it already is.
My point that I think more valid. Is for people to get a car pool partner and save gas, emissions and congestion.
Hold on partner - Allowing hybrids into the HOV lanes does not INCREASE traffic congestion - it RELIEVES it !!!
One less car in the "stopped" lanes means more room for them...The HOV lanes (in most places) STILL move better than the non-HOV lanes.
And that one person in the hybrid would still be a one person on the road in one car if they were not driving a hybrid...
PS
We need to move this to the HOV lane forum if you want to keep talking about this G-Man......Reply over there if you have a reply....
Most of the time, no you would not. When I'm in hypermile mode, I constantly CONSTANTLY scan my rearview mirror for people who might want me out of their way and do everything I can to let them by, short of "speeding up."
Unless they ae going to pay for my fuel/speeding ticket, no one driving behind me is going to force me to speed up - whether I'm hypermiling or not.
This is my point exactly. Some people think speed is the only tool to use. For example when the traffic gets moving again from that light you (we) have choices.
Surely I could just follow behind the pack with a cars length in front gassing it hard with them to gain speed....
Or I can see that there isn't anyone following for 1/4 mile...Since there isn't anyone behind I can back off a little bit, cut my rate of increase and save some gas.
Nobody notices or cares.
Or I might notice my fuel consumption display shows mid 40's MPG, so I increase it to mid 50's or 60's with no change in speed....
Again, nobody notices or cares.
Or I'll be doing just fine getting great MPG flowing along in traffic and see an upcoming hill.
A vehicle ahead decides to go slow for what ever reason. Now we pack in like an accordion behind them.
Later we're on that hill and I'm burning alot more fuel than otherwise for that slow person.
The person in front of me who is also victim of this slow driver gets home, goes to Edmunds and posts that hypermilers cause hazards.
Sound familiar?
This brings to mind a funny thing last summer.
There's a set of HUGE hills on my way home @ 3:00AM.
These are on a 55MPH limit, cops patrol it to just over 60MPH.
Since there isn't anyone around at 3:00AM I usually take them @ 60MPH at their base and let her sag down to about 45MPH at the top.
That night most of the way up this steep 3/4 mile hill someone pulls up right behind and very aggressively tailgates. I couldn't see their headlights they were so close.
So I held it to about 53MPH and as I reached the top immediately pulled into a turn only lane on the left to let them pass.
Wow! It was a cop driving like that behind me.
In fact I returned to my lane after he passed, then he pulled me over for improper lane usage! (Because I let him by)
Well I was pretty hot at him and he knew it- denying to the end that he was tailgating.
Another benefit of hybrids are conversation. It turned out OK, he admitted trolling for drunks and my lane change was his excuse. Of course I also mentioned my 68MPG average and showed him my dash which said 72 point something MPG.
People's reaction is priceless.
Two cents?
My hypermiling paid the bulk of my hybrid premium within the first year of ownership, and can almost double the MPG of our Grand Caravan.
(The wife mainly drives the GC and thinks nothing of hypermiling, but have learned from it as well. She averages about 21-22 which is great, coming from 14-16MPG...simply from non-aggressive driving)
You too Larsb!!!!
2. If you want to save the environment, live within walking distance of work.
OR
biking distance of work.
OR
ride a motorcycle! 40+mpg, only 500lbs into the landfill, and donate the extra $12,500 you didn't spend on your Prius to Charity! :shades:
I do a lot of coasting in a 1979 Oldsmobile...and my vacuum gauge swings wide right and tells me I'm doing quite well. But I can't do it all the time. I try to stay within 5-10mph of the posted limit (low or high) and do all the coasting I can do so my foot is off the gas and no more than idle speed fuel is being consumed.
Someone incorrectly thinks they are cute.
And why would we need to ban hypermiling? If someone is breaking traffic laws doing it then enforce the laws.
I think he was serious... :surprise:
Nothing happening here folks... back to your regular programming.
One idea that came from a friend makes a lot of sense and I've been doing it ever since he mentioned it to me about a year ago. When you get in your car, do everything that you need to do before driving like putting on your seatbelt, adjusting mirrors, etc. BEFORE you start your car rather than after. I know it doesn't seem like much, but every little bit helps and it does keep you in the right mindset
So let's hear from you hypermilers. How are you increasing your range?
On my daily commute the puter in the vehicle (which is more or less accurate when compared to calculated milage) my 30 MPG EPA estimated highway ride has been on a regular basis (outside of cold winter temps) getting 33 MPG without trying to hard.
After reading this last week and being on the road sunday I did a little test drinving like I had a raw egg between my right foot and pedal and managed to get puter reading of 36MPG on a 30 mile trip. It does take considerable focus to do that though on a regular basis.
Gradually I came to gradual acceleration and decelleration as a habit, and now I do it without thinking. We just got my wife a Mariner hybrid, and now she is going through the same conversion. Driving a little slower than she did, taking acceleration easier, etc...
I don't think its something that translates well to conventional car drivers. Its a paradigm shift. My position on the slow drivers being a danger, etc. is that I drive the speed limit in the slow lane and get blown by. I don't think anyone should be faulted for going the speed limit.
I had to make a trip from Colorado Springs to downtown Denver and back, 120 miles, almost exactly. I drive an '05 Focus auto tranny Sedan, and in the past I've averaged 28-32 city/hwy mixed driving.
The drive included a small pass (a climb from 7000-8000 ft.), so several long hills. There was also a lot of stop and go traffic in Denver. I cut down on AC usage, coasted on hills, and accelerated slowly. I also slowed down my average speed by about 5-10 mph.
I filled up back home when I had 119.9 miles on the trip ticker. I bought 2.5 gallons of gas. You can do the math, but that's nearly 48 mpg! I'm very excited about this discovery. Admittedly, perhaps not the most accurate measurement, but I'm guessing it was within a couple mpg's, which is still great for me. I'll definitely be using this in the future!
Thanks for considering this question. I have looked everywhere and can't figure out with the idling problem. A year left on the lease, then I should buy?? a Prius??
Also stop and go is ideal for hybrids since the stopping recharges the battery through regenerative breaking, and the low speed go is almost purely electric. I often wonder with a long enough traffic jam if I could reach Miami (900 miles) on one tank (I've averaged 90mpg+ for as long as 20 minutes in traffic jams before in my Prius)
The difference in the ride is noticeable but not objectionable. I expect that the tires will wear more unevenly than they would at the recommended pressures, but that effect may be less than one might expect due to the nature of the steel-belted radials.
I am extremely pleased with my Prius. I think the Edmunds review is too critical, although I can understand why they might want to be conservative. I especially like the ability to fold down the back seats to make the car into effectively a station wagon. I think Toyota has some work to do on the transition from regenerative braking to mechanical breaking, especially if the car was last driven on wet roads. The mechanical brakes can then grab, almost to the point of causing wheel lock. I have learned to drive a short distance at slow speed with the brakes on to dry them out before parking the car after a drive on wet roads.