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Toyota Fearing Hyundai?



  • delta4delta4 Posts: 138
    ".... I don't think Yota or Honda are worried about Hyun/Kia ..l.o.l... but I do know they are watching any manufacturer that's in the market place showing any growth ..." rroyce10

    Honda and Toyota are “worried" at the moment but they are more "worried" about the near to distant future as Toyota in particular is known to do. Here are some figures and facts that substantiate what this discussion is based on: In 1998, Hyundai ranked number 12 among global manufacturers, selling 1.3 million vehicles (including those of its sister company, Kia Motors)" according to Forbes.

    Last year, it was number 7 worldwide... with sales of just over 3.1 million vehicles" (from article titled 'Last Laugh,' Joann Muller & Robyn Meredith, Forbes, April 25th, 2005). Calendar year 2003 made Hyundai only the fourth import franchise ever to exceed 400,000 annual units in the United States.

    Go back in time, and Hyundai has been in a similarly enviable position before. Its first three years on the U.S. market were inspired, with a rapid growth rate (as Ward's Auto World charted recently) that was quite a contrast to the gradual launches of Honda; Toyota, and even Kia.

    Hyundai stumbled after finding early success in the U.S. with 1990 Sales tumbling to a crippling 100,000 units due to all kinds of quality related issues. (source: wards Auto, &

    Fast forward fifteen years today finds Hyundai back on track, now listed as the fourth largest import brand, with the opening of its first U.S. Auto plant in Alabama, comprising of two million square feet, at a cost of 1.1 billion dollars. This plant currently staffs more than 2,000 full-time employees with more to come once full production is ramped up to produce not only the newly re-designed Sonata but re-designed Santa Fe as well. Manufacturers who go bankrupt can hardly afford this level of investment if they are unable to deliver increased sales year-over-year, especially if the product they sell is not native to that country and quality has not drastically improved.

    Price is the first consideration the car buyer is attracted but in today’s market place price must also compete with quality. Car buyers today are demanding both. This is why standard stability control and six standard air bags, including seat-mounted side-impact and side curtain units, and active head restraints are included in the new Sonata. ***Note that four of those six are optional on America's current mainstream best-seller, the Toyota Camry.

    Where does the claim that "they still have the largest MBB/NW (Manufacturers Buy-back, No Warranty) volume in the industry" comes from? what industry fact is that based on?

    The rant regarding Hyundai receiving so-called "good press" is utter nonsense. Hyundai is getting the so-called "good press" because it is finally producing good, quality, reliable cars and is now being recognized for that accomplishment. (source: consumers reports 2004 reader surveys)

    As far as the comment about Hyundai adding to rental fleets name one manufacturer that mass produces mid-sized vehicles who doesn’t currently allocate a percentage of their models to rentals? What better way to introduce your product to a potential prospect. Toyota does this all the time.
  • n.htm

    This report is very interesting. It does mention the Excel.

    Anyone hear ever read about Mitsubishi giving Hyundai the tranny/engine for the Excel, or is that a internet rumor?

    I also read that Mitsubishi sold a version of the Excel.
    So which is it? Mitsubishi sold Hyudnai's, rebadged, or visa-versa?
    On with the show. ;)
  • fintailfintail Posts: 37,876
    Mitsu sold a rebadged Excel, the "Precis". A friend of mine had one in high school, and it was a tinny little thing. I called it the "Precis Zero" after the WWII plane.
  • delta4delta4 Posts: 138
    fintail is correct regarding the Precis being a rebadged Excel sold by Mistubishi. Both quite forgettable models. While we're on that subject isn't it ironic that Mistubishi, a Japanese company who at one time supplied the powertrains for Hyundai is now leaking miles and miles of red ink and may soon become feed for fast moving Chinese auto conglomerate. How the student has passed the teacher.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Posts: 1,828
    Wasn't the Hyundai Pony/Excel a reworked Mitsu??
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Anyone hear ever read about Mitsubishi giving Hyundai the tranny/engine for the Excel, or is that a internet rumor?

    Mitsubishi supplied the engines and transmissions for the early FWD Hyundais (Excel and Sonata). Hyundai built their own copies of the Mitsu drivetrains beginning around 1991 for the second-gen Excel and Sonata, and the first Elantra and Scoupe. Hyundai reengineered them (flipping the tranny to the driver's side in the process) around 1994 (these went in the last of the turbo Scoupes, the 1995 Accent, and 1996 Elantra and Tiburon; the 1996 Sonata got new heads).

    I also read that Mitsubishi sold a version of the Excel.

    Mitsubishi Precis. This was part of the deal for the Mitsu drivetrains.
  • Thanks, Bumpy!
    Very interesting!
    Wondered about all of that, and never could find a 100% clear answer.
  • Toyota not worried? Are you aware when Hyundai rocketed onto the quality charts in 2004, when the Sonata was ranked the most reliable car ever (2 problems/100 vehicles), that Toyota's Chairman requested a tour of Hyundai's Ulsan plant(the worlds largest and most advanced) and offered to allow Hyundai's Chair to tour Toyota's Lexus plant in Japan. Hyundai declined. What do you think Toyota wanted to see. Toyota not concerned?
    Hyundai's Sonata sold 14,000+ last month and was up 117%. It was the SEVENTH BEST SELLLING CAR IN THE UNITED STATES behind the Camry, Corolla, Accord, Civic, Impala and Altima. Projections for December sales are 20,000 which puts the Sonata only 3,000 units behind the Accord and 6,000 behind the Camry. Not concerned? When a Hyundai Sonata used to be a joke and it is now one of the best sellilng cars in the US, it warrants concern.
    Motor Trends December Issue states that Lexus/Toyota brand should be very worried and rated the Hyundai Azera a better car in its rankings than the Avalon.
  • You guys are beating a dead horse. So what do you guys want? You want Toyota to make public admission that they fear Hyundai and that they plan to "cut and run" by pulling out of the market? Is that what you want?
    The industry is tough and I'm sure Toyota is not only aware of Hyundai as a competetitor but also the "other" much larger competitors.
    What goes around comes around. Hyundai and Kia has its own share of failures, so does Nissan and Mitsubishi. Hyundai and Nissan was able to turn it around and its not far off to say that Mitsubishi can do it too.
    Nobody knows what will happen in five or ten years time. maybe by then Mitsubishi is hot on the heals of Hyundai. Will you guys parading Hyundai success be with us still to join a thread that I will start entitled "Hyundai fearing Mitsubishi"
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Dodge City, KSPosts: 6,421
    about Hyundai and Kia and the floating Big Boy, Toyota. Honestly sir, Big Boy's still making the same great product for the same great prices. They've never stopped. :)

    I realize that Kia is doing worse as far as quality goes but they are still my favorite. They've always taken more than adequate care of me, dealer service scores have been a 99% from me for both of my Kia dealers. One was in Burlington, WA, and one was in Springfield, MO. Helpful, courteous and technically top-notch people. I'm fixin' to meet my local Kia dealership's employees, this one being Robert Allen Kia in Pocatello, Idaho. Robert Allen also sells Nissan's and Mercedes-Benz'. I think they'll do a great job for me as they want to get the Kia part of their business going here in SE Idaho. I'll let y'all know as the story progresses, OK?

    I took a several months long time period to study the Scion lineup of cars and I came away very impressed. Was strongly considering buying a Scion xA RS 1.0(used) or 2.0(new)but am now firmly back in the new car market looking only at Kia's.

    I have bought two Kia's in a row so an owner loyalty rebate would be cool as well as a college grad rebate(they'll consider anyone who has a degree that they earned up to two years back from the proposed purchase day of your new Kia, I graduated on May 4, 2005) of $400 on my proposed purchase of a 2006 Kia Rio5 in 5-speeds and Tropical Red color. The Kia Rio5 SX has everything I'm looking for in a rig including 32/35 mpg. I just examined everything thoroughly and, you know what, that Long-Haul Warranty, superior Kia body stylers(the best in the business IMHO), metal pedals, spoiler, rear wiper/defroster, AM/FM/CD player, air conditioning and leather-wrapped steering wheel and shift knob has won me over to the Kia Rio5 SX.

    All that equipment for $14,110 and then the fact that Motor Trend has picked the 2006 Kia Rio5 SX as one of their 26 contenders for 2006 Car of the Year and their write-up is very complimentary, as well as countless great reviews of the "Euro" design Rio5 that are very favorable towards it. This includes one from my old hometowm Seattle Times newspaper that heralds it as a wise choice to consider for those that are one car families.

    Describes us wife, I , our one Norwegian Forest cat and two Pomeranians, plus a 25-y/o son who visits us real often. We are a one-car family and the Rio5 SX from Kia for 2006 is a great fit for us.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Toyota 'fears' all car companies. Their success is enviable. Of course Hyundai wants to make a run at them, but so do all car companies.

    Hyundai is such a mystery financially. Try to research the company's financials and you get a bunch of mosh. The SK government obviously has a huge interest in the company doing well and the subsidies/freebies/concessions are rumored to be huge. But who knows? In a few years the company could implode and get bailed out again. Or get nuked by North Korea.

    The cars may be built better but it'll take many more years to convince a huge part of America that Hyundai can hunt. Their negative reputation still looms over them. And the styling of their cars is so 'Eastern European' dull.
  • "get nuked by North Korea."

    I find that to be offensive. Please be remineded that there are Koreans who visit this forum and read posts with great interest. I, for one. I know you didn't mean it to be offensive. However, I think that was inappropriate.

    Thanks. :)
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    My wife and I have spent the last 9 months driving and scrutinizing Honda, Nissan, and Toyota products, and only recently Hyundai. Originally, we were in the Accord or Camry model-type market, but recently reconsidered our needs due to its primary purpose: city commuting, i.e. downmarket. First of all let me state, we've driven primarily European and Japanese vehicles since the mid-60's, and have substantial experience with relative high quality vehicles with generally excellent fit and finish.

    To cut to the chase, we bought a 2006 Hyundai Elantra GLS. One could set an Elantra next to any Honda, Nissan, or Toyota, and by objectively viewing the consistent seam and body panel alignment and gaps, as well as the overall visible build quality and attention to detail, the Hyundai is every bit as good as any of the Japanese brands. (Note: Every 2005/2006 Camry LE we looked at earlier had inconsistent panel and trim alignment. Perhaps this is more due to the manufacturing process in Georgetown, KY?) We later spoke with a number of late model Elantra owners, and they stated its reliability has been outstanding.

    I'm old enough to remember the first Honda, Datsun, and Toyota products which landed in the USA in the '60s. They were no great cars either, practically rusting away within the first few years of ownership. In many ways, Hyundai is paralleling the product growth over time of the Japanese brands. In other words, we are witnessing another market growth cycle, this time with a Korean manufacturer. Who's next - most likely China and India.

    In the USA, perception of a product seems to be paramount. You could have a better mousetrap in every sense of the word, but if the masses perceive otherwise, it would be viewed as inferior. That's exactly the way most adults viewed the Japanese brands initially - Japanese products in the USA were perceived as junk. Times change, and with the products Hyundai currently offers, their standing in the marketplace will change as well.

    If one considers the current Hyundai Sonata dull, the same logic must apply to the Audi A4 and VW Passat styling, as well as the larger Ford Five Hundred.

    Total sales volume for 06, for all Korean vehilce makers(including GM-DAT).

    Hyundai sold around 2.53 million units, and Kia 1.27 million= for the Hyundai Group: 3.8 Million.

    GM is thisclose to Kia(GM-Daewoo).
  • for S Korean makers, all of them combined.
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    One other thing regarding the purchase of our 2006 Elantra - we paid cash as we always do when purchasing a car. As one who at one time worked in the auto industry, many dealers, regardless of what brand they sell, try to qualify any "breathing human being" for a loan to close a sale. Afterall, the majority of car salespersons' make their living on sales commissions.

    I could have paid cash for any Honda or Toyota, but chose the Hyundai. Like I said, times may be changing.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ..**Toyota not worried? Are you aware when Hyundai rocketed onto the quality charts in 2004, when the Sonata was ranked the most reliable car ever (2 problems/100 vehicles), that Toyota's Chairman requested a tour of Hyundai's Ulsan plant(the worlds largest and most advanced) and offered to allow Hyundai's Chair to tour Toyota's Lexus plant in Japan. Hyundai declined. What do you think Toyota wanted to see. Toyota not concerned? **

    There must be some thick glass on that aquarium you live in ..... "rocketed" ..l.o.l... have you looked at the long term figures.? .. where's all of your 85,000/135,000 mile Sonata's at, the Guggenheim Museum...? ... as far as the Chairman of Toyota going to the plant, I understand that, that's business 101 .. he was invited along with probably 10,000 other industry people, him being in the top 5 I'm sure, it's done on levels and at various dates and times, c'mon even I was invited and I'm not even a Hyundai dealer ..l.o.l... ... but that's a very common business/industry practice, it shows a mark of respect and there's a certain comradory with folks in the business and across the board, it happens everyday whether you're in the car business, the boat business or the hat making business.

    Hyundai's Sonata sold 14,000+ last month and was up 117%. It was the SEVENTH BEST SELLLING CAR IN THE UNITED STATES behind the Camry, Corolla, Accord, Civic, Impala and Altima. Projections for December sales are 20,000 which puts the Sonata only 3,000 units behind the Accord and 6,000 behind the Camry. Not concerned? When a Hyundai Sonata used to be a joke and it is now one of the best selling cars in the US, it warrants concern.
    Motor Trends December Issue states that Lexus/Toyota brand should be very worried and rated the Hyundai Azera a better car in its rankings than the Avalon.

    14,000.? .. actually the figures are just shy of $14,200 .... but that figure also includes the 5,300ish vehicles that were shipped off to Dollar and other rental car companies, plus those figures also include the 1,500ish in "buy back replacements" ... so those figures are a little skewed .... I'm not waving Toyota's flag or any other flag for that matter .. and I'm not from Florida or Ohio, I'm from Missouri: "the show me State" ....

    When Hyun/Kia can put some back to back winners together and they have 4 or 5 years of "proven history" (and their buy back rate isn't the highest in the industry) ... and they can continually link 250/350,000+ units of 100,000/150,000 mile vehicles in the market (which they haven't) - and the word "reliability" can be used in their vocabulary as a history fact - not an advertisement for the future, and the word "longevity" becomes a fact and not a promise with a hinky warranty, and they can show the buying public they can sell cars with quality dealers that have no fear of their own products with ~ then, they have gotten somewhere .... with 3 times at the plate lets see if they can play in the Majors .....

  • I am curious now about these 20% buy backs, et al..

    Not being nasty, I just have not been able to find any info on any internet searches. If you are privvy to info we are not, would be cool if ya can share it somehow.

    I have tried, but all I get are sales from Hyundai, or parts from Hyundai, or testimonials on Hyundai; nothing about buy backs, for any company.

  • delta4delta4 Posts: 138
    "There must be some thick glass on that aquarium you live in ..... "rocketed" ..l.o.l... have you looked at the long term figures.?" - rroyce10.

    There needn't be any sarcasm when responding to any post.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,695
    just how concerned Americans are about quality anyway. In this age of disposable everything, people probably don't care that much about how much a new product breaks down as long it as it will be "exchanged" (repaired under warranty) with minimal hassle and cost rock bottom prices.

    This race to the bottom is the very reason for WalMart's resounding success, and the thing that should most scare Toyota. Whether or not Hyundai is these days making stuff bought back at the rate of 20% or not, someone is standing right behind them in the line, ready to sell their stuff cheaply to Americans, who WILL manufacture their product to that standard and sell it at rock bottom prices.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • is why Wal-Mart is where it is today, plus, the grocery-clothing,oil-change store combination, to make shopping in one spot easy, and going anywhere else un-necessary
    (10/10K warranty could be thought of as same way?).

    Yes, nippononly is correct: China, Inc will be here soon, and I bet that it will not take 40, 30, or 20 years for them to get their quality up, and sell on cheap prices.

    Then, of ocurse, you have India, Brazil, and many others. My question is this: What happens when ther are no more "cheap labor/materials' countries for cheap cars built to acceptable standards?

    I wonder what say GM, Ford, Isuzu, among others, buy back rates are?
    What are their rental fleet %?

    I read in December that Ford still sells Taursuses, for rentals only, and sold more rentls of those than I think than of the 500 or Fusion!

  • delta4delta4 Posts: 138
    nippononly I'm curious about where that "buy back" number for Hyundai cars orignated? In the meantime some research found the following at the Federal Trade Commission's website regarding lemon law buy-backs Here is one quote, "In Massachusetts, lemons manufactured by Chrysler, General Motors, Ford, Isuzu, Mazda, Mitsubishi, and Nissan were retitled in other states or were placed in "auction." In Georgia, the same pattern held for vehicles produced by BMW, Chrysler, General Motors, Ford, Hyundai, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Toyota, and Volvo." although this is one quote taken from their website, I have yet to find any source on the web that purports to have specific information broken down by manufacturer.

    If you have a source or know of one can you share that with us?

    As to your statement that Americans disregard quality so they will also do the same for their cars? Looking at what's happening to both GM's and Ford's market share dispels that as obviously not the case.

    Americans do indeed care about quality especially when it comes their cars. Otherwise organizations like consumer reports and J.D. Powers would not exist. GM and Ford have unfortunately learned this lesson the hard way.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,695
    "Americans do indeed care about quality especially when it comes their cars"

    Yeah sure, some do, but the majority? I am thinking NOT! But I am not saying I am totally sure I am correct or anything.

    If people paying $20K and up will put up with repeated trips to the service drive (think VW Group owners and others), probably a lot of people paying $12-15K will also. The manufacturer just has to make them feel like they are getting a bargain - give 'em CD players, A/C, and outside temp gauges, and slash $1500 off the price at rebate time, and they will lap it up no matter how often the car itself breaks down. AS LONG AS when it does give them problems, it gets repaired for free.

    Just a theory.

    And as for Toyota, well, it is counting on there being a significant percentage of people who will not only pay extra because they value quality and reliability, but will also buy into Toyota's rep and will feel the quality IS there at test drive time.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ..... You need to quite taking things personally, because this discussion "isn't" about you ... we had this discussion back in June/July(?) last year and you didn't like the information that was posted then ... I don't make the news, I just report it .... if you have something personally to say, then just email me ... now, read on.


    12/13/2005 FAAO $ 9,300 2,351 BURG 6G A X SE
    12/20/2005 FAAO $ 10,300 4,231 BLUE 6G A X SE
    12/08/2005 LAS VEGA $ 9,500 4,629 SLV 6G M X WC
    12/23/2005 NEVADA $ 9,000 4,653 GREY 6G 5 WC
    12/21/2005 CEN FLA $ 9,300 5,680 BLACK 6G A X SE
    12/28/2005 MINNEAP $ 10,600 7,572 GRAY 6G A X MW
    12/13/2005 FAAO $ 10,100 8,615 BLUE 6G A X SE
    12/13/2005 STATESVL $ 10,400 10,062 BURG 6G A X SE
    12/14/2005 BAY CITI $ 11,200 11,700 RED 6G A X WC
    12/22/2005 MID AMER $ 9,500 13,317 GRAY 6G A X MW
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 10,800 13,367 WHITE 6G A X MW
    12/14/2005 ORNG CTY $ 10,900 13,947 2 BLUE 6G A X SE
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 10,300 14,240 SILVER 6G A X MW
    12/28/2005 BAY CITI $ 10,500 14,478 BLUE 6G A X WC
    12/27/2005 FAAO $ 9,400 15,891 GREEN 6G A X SE
    12/14/2005 DAYTONA $ 9,300 15,981 GREY 6G 5 X SE
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 10,700 16,048 WHITE 6G A X MW
    12/21/2005 MILWAUKE $ 10,500 16,656 BLUE 6G A X MW
    12/14/2005 DAYTONA $ 10,500 17,376 WHITE 6G 5 X SE
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 9,700 18,236 BLUE 6G A X MW
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 10,800 19,428 WHITE 6G A X MW
    12/08/2005 GTR TMPA $ 9,100 19,884 SILVER 6G A X SE
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 10,700 19,954 MAROON 6G A X MW
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 9,100 20,035 WHITE 6G A X MW
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 10,500 20,127 BLUE 6G A X MW
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 9,500 20,560 SILVER 6G A X MW
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 10,100 20,740 SILVER 6G A X MW
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 10,500 20,902 SILVER 6G A X MW
    12/15/2005 SO CAL $ 10,200 20,956 SILVER 6G A X WC
    12/15/2005 SO CAL $ 10,200 21,048 GRAY 6G A X WC
    12/02/2005 MANHEIM $ 8,700 21,076 GRAY 6G O X NE
    12/15/2005 SO CAL $ 10,700 21,096 GRAY 6G A X WC
    12/15/2005 SO CAL $ 9,200 21,106 MAROON 6G A X WC
    12/14/2005 DALLAS $ 9,000 21,136 GRAY 6G A X SW
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 10,700 21,144 WHITE 6G A X MW
    12/06/2005 ARENA $ 10,200 21,187 SILVER 6G A X MW
    12/07/2005 DALLAS $ 9,500 21,198 WHITE 6G A X SW

  • they won't be buying back my 04. Has 23,000+, 0 problems.

    The 99 was rough, the Sonata, I will admit,but it lasted around 120,000, before nickel and dime stuff set in heavily(or it was the dealership, not fixing things right the first 3 times!), but before 113,000? Nothing, really.

    Wish our 200sx, Nissan, 97 model, base, would have been bought back, but it had 67,000 miles, and nearly 3.5 years old. Thing quit running, due to gear tooth chipped, timing chain slipped, threw off the timing, and needed a rebuilt starter,ignition coil,new timing gear and chain, spark plugs,etc, and kept having issues, so we dumped it.

    Thanks for posting those figures .
    I wonder how many GM or Fords get recalled annually?
    or Isuzu's(they only sold 9,000+ up through November of 05).

    I have honestly owned 2 Nissans, 2 Chevies, 3 Hyundais, and now a Scion tC, and all but the last 2 cars had some mechanical failing.
    Maybe not bad enough for repurchase, though.
  • "fixed". got stuck 2 times, mid-way up the windshield, passenger side.
    That was it for nearly 40,000 miles now. The other Scions, I read, were "bad", due to NVH, mainly?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,695
    complaints like squeaks and rattles have been hitting Toyota hard for almost three years now - the new 2002 Camry, the new 2003 Corolla and Matrix, the Scion xA and xB. They ought to do something permanent about that. It's not a reliability issue, but will certainly impact how people feel about their new Toyotas. It was a contributing factor to my deciding to get rid of my '03 Matrix earlier than I otherwise would have. Three service trips is what it took for them to quell the worst of the rattles, and even then new ones would crop up from time to time, and the original ones were never 100% cured by the service department. Apart from that it was flawless.

    The real thing about Hyundai is not where ti stands today, but rather how quickly it has straightened up its act in the last few years. Is there any reason to think it will not be able to continue on this path for the next five years? If it does, it will certainly be something for Toyota to worry about. The "what if" of whether today's Hyundais WILL stand the test of time is something that should be planned for today by Toyota and all the other big players in the industry.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • despite buy backs, or whatever.
    and, for the first time, Sonata sales topped the 20K mark in a month.
    My deal is this: I think the cars had more character last year or 3, than now. Even saw an Azera, and it was at the end of a line of Sonatas, and I did not realize what it was until my 2nd pass, and I looked, intentionally, for the name on the deck lid. That's not good, for a car that is one level up from the Sonata, to almost look like a Sonata.
    Seems the more dull, or "normal" they make thme, and the more 5 star ratigns they get(plus sales) the more fly off of the lots.
    The Sonata sales...... went from 11,000 being their best, to 20K+, in 6 months time, for a single best month sales.

    I read on a fan site that one guy looked at the 06, and got a left over 05, because he liked the old design better(as do we, in our family).

    I won't buy another Hyundai, unless they snap out of this make a better looking Accord stuff.

    Won't even consider one, but seems others are, as SOnata hit , i think 132,000 sales for 05.

    Toyota should worry, they learned their secret: 5 star crash test ratings, and Bland Cars= Sales :confuse:
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,293
    I agree! They've got to stop copying those dull Japanese designs. The only thing worse than a Camry is a Camry clone! That's what the Azera is! Some goes for the Accord-clone Sonata. Korean cars had a funky look all their own that I liked. Who else but the Koreans could give us something as funky as the Kia Amanti?
  • yes. I agree. The 1st 2 generations of the Tibby were odd, too, but different looking from anything else.

    If I wanted an Accord or Camry, I'd buy one, not a clone, either.

    Hey, get this. Surprised me... this past Summer, 05, I saw 2(or 3) Yellow, Scoupes! One was driven by a guy who looked to be in his mid-30's . He would go by here daily.
    Arm hanging out of the window, radio cranked up, etc.
    The other was in town.
    Had a guy a few years back got one for his daughter, in college....said it was a nice little car( he had Buicks).
    He said if gas were higher priced, he would keep it himself and drive it.

    They should have "retro-ed" the new Accent 3 door to Scoupe-like deal? :confuse:

    I know people buy em!

    a 11K new (sort of retro) Scoupe, but have 140HP, in a 2,500 lb car, may not be too sluggish, and look different than anything else out there.

    Different sells.

    Ask Chrysler.... they had 5% increase for 05 over 04, i read. It sure was not due to simple, copy cat, or "quiet" designs, that do not stand out.

    Hey, ya want to see a funky sporty car design from Hyundai? Look up the HCD-8. Or wait for their newer version at Detroit. I hope that they do not mess it up , and water it down to bland.
    Take It Easy.
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