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You can also use 215's with no issue. I will be ordering that size at the end of the summer because I want the Falken Ziex 512 and they don't sell 205's
The last thing I remember sandman saying about the Mazda3 was that it wasn't aging that well. It had squeaks/rattles and just seemed older than it was, in general.
Sandman will step-in and fill us in, I'm sure, but I didn't know when he'd be back!
Maybe it's just our particular car, it's just not aging well. But since we owe nothing on it, we'll just keep it until something really major goes wrong. This is by no means a slam on Mazda products...it's just that our experience has not been as good as we had hoped.
Buy what you really like, that's the bottom line. I really think most folks do love their Mazda 3's. Just wanted to give another point of view to keep in mind. But honestly, any car can have many little problems that just ruin the owner experience.
Good luck with whatever you choose and please let us know. I'd be very curious on what you end up with.
The Sandman
Why do you think you'd take a hit on the trade? The resale value is very strong. As an example, my 2006 3s Touring (stick) with 28K miles has a Kbb trade in value of $13,235 for good and $14,175 for Excellent (mine is probably in between). Edmunds is a little lower. I paid $16,700 in October of 05. I think that's very good
I understand the prepaid maintenance being an issue, though
Civic EX coupe manual
-handling is fun
-acceleration is good
-reliability is likely better than M3
-resale will probably be better
-interior is nice for the money except seats look cheap but comfortable
-better tires based on forum discussion
-better trunk configuration (can easily drop to golf bags in)
Mazda3s GT manual
-handling is more fun
-did not feel a big difference in acceleration
-interior is much nicer than civic (leather, Bose, etc)
-did not find the pedals too close although they are close enough that I know what everyone is talking about
-exterior is better looking
-stability and traction control is a big plus (NH resident)
-two sets of clubs requires the back seat in down position
Other things I am wondering about:
interior noise in the M3 hatch vs sedan
do not like reading some of the things in the Mazda discussion like tranny problems, lousy tires, etc. Maybe someone can put me at ease.
I would appreciate any feedback since I am very close to puchasing. Thx.
The biggest upside for the Honda is that it's a Honda, so you have a bit of an edge with reliability. Gas mileage is also going to be a bit better in the Civic.
The upside for the Mazda3 is the features that come with the GT. There are definitely more toys (especially for the money compared to the Civic EX) on the GT like the leather and Bose that you stated, but also the auto xenon headlights, foglights, rain-sensing wipers, auto climate control, and sportier 17" wheels (just my opinion, though). The only complaint we have is that the A/C isn't all that strong, which is more noticeable since we're in FL. I would imagine that downside weighs very little on your decision since you're not battling 90 degree weather on a regular basis in NH.
I know how hard this decision is because there isn't a clear-cut winner. My wife has an '06 Mazda3 GT automatic with the sunroof/bose package and I have an Accord, so I'm a fan of both Honda and Mazda. We looked at the same two cars for my wife that you're looking at, and we made the choice for the Mazda3 based on the reasons I mentioned. The reliability has been excellent so far after 20K miles (knock on wood). We also had a friend who hooked us up with the employee pricing so the deal we got on it made a difference; although, I think we could have received the same deal without the employee plan.
As you may have already assumed, my vote is slightly in favor of the Mazda3, but either car would have made us happy.
So far, there really has not been any major problems with the Mazda3, small stuff, sure, like every vehicle. Even the new Civic has had a bunch of little issues. Just look at the 2006-present Civic problem board...
As for resale, I seem to laugh every time I see that mentioned. It is very hard to sell one privately!! Even if you own the vehicle out right. If you have a lien on it, forget it! Who is going to pay you thousands for a car if you don't even own it! If you own it long enough to buy it out right, and sell it when you have 70-80K on the clock, you are talking maybe a dollar difference in the 100's. Not thousands. So, would the extra hundreds in savings over 5,6,7 years of ownership be enough to sway your decision? Maybe. Maybe not. That;s for you to decide. Every publication recommends the Mazda3, as well as the Civic. You will be fine, reliability wise, with either.
From a dealer's prospective, both are worth about the same from 2004-present, if you were to trade. One cannot go by KBB or Edmunds. No dealer in my neck of the woods (North East) uses them.
The Sandman
Not sure why you are under the impression tha tthere will be a major problem. Most issues have been ironed out. Teh A/C is not the strongest, but it gets the job done for me and it can get very hot here in NJ.
The reason I have Mazda 3 is that my Saab 9-3 was brought in roughly a dozen times in 2 1/2 years, the final straw being a completely blown auto tranny at 37K miles. Thank God it was warrantied until 50, but I had to sell before I was out of warranty. I bought the Mazda and have had zero issues besides oil changes with it in 30K miles (aside from getting rear ended). My tires have held up, too and only now are looking at replacement
One other thing I noticed in your comparison. If fitting golf bags with the seat up is an issue, why wouldn't you consider the sedan for both?
one thing that dairyshick seemed to play down a bit in his post; your mileage will not be 'a bit better' in the civic. its going to be amazingly better, especially if the mazda you are comparing it to is the 2.3.
Invoice $20,609 (inc/regional adjustment for the Boston district-advertising, etc.)
Only option was moonroof/Bose.
Documentation fees were $169.
Out the door for $20,778.
I don't know if there was money left on the table but thought it was a good price. The regional adj was $249 (probably goes back to the dealer.
Nevertheless, it was the only S GT manual in galaxy gray within 100 miles and didn't want to lose it for a few extra bucks. There is restricted allocation of manuals as many of you may know and sticks are much harder to come across. I went with the Hatch out of personal preference. You are right- the clubs do go into the sedan trunk without getting into the back seat but I'm sure there will be a day when the hatch comes in handy. I found the appearance unique and fewer on the road, perception anyway. Will pick up the car by the weekend and will report back on first impression. Feel pretty good about the decision anyway.
Regarding mileage, that was one of the trade offs compared to the civic coupe. Assuming 5 mpg difference based on EPA ratings, 25,000 miles/year, it's about $400 in gas cost annually. I figured that $7.69 a week was worth the extra "entertainment value" that the Mazda3 offered over the Civic. Heck, a movie is $9.00 now!
By the way, I mentioned the reliability issue I had in my decision to the sales mgr and he showed me a new survey put out by Cars Direct just today indicating that Mazda nosed out Honda in fewest mechanical problems among 3-9 year old vehicles. I was a little surprised but pleased to hear. Hope the data is credible.
http://www.1stchoice.co.uk/News.aspx?ID=10457
So far I haven't had any issues with the A/C. We've had a few 90+ days so far in Chicago and even if the car has been sitting in the sun it cools off in 10min or so.
I know I didn't get a huge discount for this one because the dealer I went to wasn't the best dealer you want to buy a car if you want deep discounts. But, they were the only one who had a manual tranny at that time with the color that I want. Wayne Mazda had one but in red and black. I'm only looking for either the Sunlight Silver or the Aurora Blue Mica.
I'm glad you chose the 3, you really won't regret your decision. I was worried about the A/C too when I bought my car, and I couldn't test it because I bought it in Feb this year, in the middle of winter. But we've been experiencicng in past 3 days, temperatures in the mid-90's with humidity in the NY Metro Area, and the A/C is superb! Used the A/C at fan speed level 3 (GT models have 7 fan speed levels) in the coldest setting. My eyeglasses will frost as soon as I get out of the car. That's how cold the A/C was! They've surely fixed the issue on past models.
Fuel economy is fine. I'm getting 24 city/32 hwy (23 or less if driving mostly in NYC traffic) and it's not that far with my sister's 2006 Civic EX which she gets 25 city/34 hwy (24 or less if driving mostly in NYC traffic). Really close to 2008 EPA estimates.
By the way, I just had an oil change with synthetic oil Friday morning. Performance is a lot better. Also putting in Premium Grade (93 octane) gas most of the time now. I've put in 87 for a while and noticed a different sound on the engine. Love the sound better in higher octane gas.
So far, I'm really enjoying and loving the car. It's been performing well above my expectations for a premium econo-box.
By the way I'm picking my car up in 2 hours and thinking of adding the rear bumper step plates. Do you find them to be more fashion than function or do you think they really do protect the bumper?
In a word...SMOOTH.
This car just purrs. I can't believe how quiet the ride is in this 4-cyl. Throwing gears is like going through butter. The one thing I was surprised about when I was test driving the civic coupe ex was that the stick was a little notchy, tougher to find gears than some of the Accord sticks that I experienced. After 200 miles on the new GT 5 door, finding gears is effortless. If I have a "complaint", in the past I've always listened to the engine to get my cue when to shift. This engine is so quiet (although I'm wondering if I've been playing the Bose too loud), that I'm watching the tach more than ever (but I'm really not complaining). This car seems like a perfect blend of fun and economy which is exactly what I was hoping for.
My only concern right now is dealing with the NH winter driving. From all accounts, it's sounds like I don't want to be on these Goodyear Eagles when the snow starts flying. In time, I will probably switch to a high performance all season tire. But I won't be ready by Dec when I'll probably have 10-12K miles on the car. I'd rather not sink $500 into a set of winter tires plus the cost of another set of wheels, not the mention the pain of changing tires twice a year. What I may try to do is rough it for this winter and have new all seasons for next.
Among you snowbelt drivers, any thought which way to go?
to mr zzoom: are you just posting your sisters epa sticker numbers? becasue the civic gets 36 mpg; the mazda 3 2.3 barely manages 29 on the highway; you must be driving VERY conserviately to get those numbers; thus negating any need to put in premium gas for its 'performance' benefits.
Overall MPG
Civic ex sedan manual 31
Mazda3 5-door hatchback manual 28
Keep in mind that the numbers I posted has a bit more percentage for both... Meaning if it's the city, more percentage driving in the city than the highway, I'm getting around 24, 23 if mostly in NYC traffic. If it's mostly highway, I'm getting around 32. You apply the same measurements with my post regarding my sister's Civic EX.
The numbers I should have posted also are the MPG of a mix (let's say 40/60, 50/50, or 60/40 percetages) city/highway driving...
My sister's Civic EX - 30.8 mpg
My 3 GT 5dr - 29.9 mpg
All in all, it really depends on how each and every one of us drives.
One more thing, when I was driving from Toronto to Montreal, I've only achieved 29.7mph as I was following this Mazda6 running at around 80 to 110mph. I was following that car for about 45 mins and my MPG went down 3mpg. Oh boy, this 3 GT 5dr just hits 110mph easily!!!
I was worried about the engine noise when I was buying this car too. My corolla was quiet and the RPM is at 3000 on 80mph. The 3 that I bought is purring at 3000RPMs on 65mph. But, it is really smooth and you'll notice how they've insulated the cabin from the engine noise, even when hitting 4500RPMs. 3000RPM's on my previous Corolla and the 3 are world's apart.
The stick is superb! My friends from all over the Northeast when I've met them the past few months, LOVED this new baby of mine. The stick is just smooth and easy. You won't find it hard to shift the car. And you'll really have that shifting "problem" when you're listening to the BOSE we've got on our cars. I was running at 4th gear merging to the NJ Turnpike and continued to do so at around 70-72mph. I forgot to change gears as I used to have an automatic and I never really heard the engine that much to give the cue to change.
Winter driving is bad at first. But once you get used to driving a stick in 10 inches of snow on the ground, the Goodyear Eagles are fine. I'm planning on changing the tires next winter season as I would probably have more than 20,000 miles on it. And from reviews I've read on tirerack.com, these Eagles are not good after a few wear and tear. From reviews on tirerack too, the best options for our GT's with the same dimensions are the Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S, Pilot Sport A/S, and the Avon Tech M550 A/S.
Try driving a Mazdaspeed3, see how you get to 110 in the blink of an eye..
as does my average of 38 mpg in my old civic!
Bottomline, like I've already said, it varies from driver to driver. My Mazda is performing better than I expected and loving every minute I'm driving it. I wish I had bought the Speed3 though.
I test drove the new Civic and I thought that the car felt like a late '90s Accord rather than an econmoy car like the old Civic. What kept me from buying it was that I use the hood to judge where the front or side of the car is and in the new Civic you can't see the hood at all from the driver's seat.
only gets 36? thats fantastic, given its rated at 36.
Actually, it is lacking severely in torque compared with the GTI turbo.
I'd still pick the Civic, but it's not the more-powerful car.
"Compared to the Civic si the Mazdaspeed3 cranks everything one noticeable notch"
:mad:
Honda fans need to take deep breathe here is the rest compared to the 3:
Better ergonomics,more body roll, less powerful brakes with nonlinear response,less peak power,lazy steering response,more understeer than the 3!
How do you claim the above?
the si's motor is wonderful. but its attributes are also its weaknesses. you don't have to keep a gti's engine on boling point to get power out of it. in fact most 0-60 runs in a gti are quiker than an si, almost a second in fact. (last gti was car and driver tested and it ran in 6.2 seconds.)
you can turbo an si, but how much will that cost? (not to mention preparing the car for the turbo.) 500 bucks gets you a gti with 50lbs of torque more and about 30-40 more hp.
the twisties? yeah, stock, si rules. But that gti is still in your rearview mirror.... :P
anyway, all i was really saying is that the Si competes with it. and that i would rather have the Si over the Gti.
most people interested in racing wont opt for a fully loaded gti; i can get a four door for about 24k, and there is no way you are getting a 2k turbo that will last outside of 1500miles. even if you do get a decked out gti; after the expense of turboing a civic; you are still just tacking on 500 bucks to the gti's 27k pricetag; and your still saving one thing: TIME.
the ecu upgrade wont really 'change' your vtec engagement point either, especially since i vtec is always 'engaged' and just swithces between economy and performance cams. this isn't b series v tec. and modding this wont really change your ability to shift on the money; you'd have to upgrade your own brains ecu to do that!
don't worry man, im not hating on you, i like the si and you should enjoy your car, i just prefer the gti for different reasons.
you've seen? or driven? they must of been working that transmission, again why the gti has the advantage, you can bully the engine, but don't have to to get a time like this.