Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra vs Dodge Ram

blkhemi · January 2006

is the fact that the "dated" Ram just won the 4X4 Truck magazine truck of the year award. Guess all is not lost for the "class leader" now, is it?

They too said that the full-size truck arena has some catching up to do as the '06 Ram is now back on top like it was in '02 with the new redesign. Just more facts to be stated

KCRam · January 2006

Dodge/Cummins:
325 hp/610 lb-ft - manual and automatic

Chevy-GMC/Duramax:
360 hp/650 lb-ft - automatic
300 hp/520 lb-ft - manual

Ford/Powerstroke
325 hp/570 lb-ft - manual and automatic

If you like to shift for yourself, nothing comes close to the Dodge. For the automatics, they're all pretty close since truck weight and dynamics tend to neutralize the small power differences.

kcram - Pickups Host

uga91 · January 2006

When did the opinion of 4x4 Truck magazine become facts?

blkhemi · January 2006

The same way that cheezy Ford infomercial became "facts" The only thing with the mag is it's not biased, unlike the very hyped and pathetic Ford video.

Funny thing is, the Ford has never won any "of the year awards" in a pure truck mag.

blkhemi · January 2006

kcram, thanks for the updated power output for the '06's

uga91 · January 2006

What does it matter who produced the videos? Had George Lucas produced them, the facts would have stayed the same. Ford uses the heaviest frame. Ford is the only truck with standard 4 wheel antilock vented disc brakes. Ford has the most stable ride as it is the only truck with outboard mounted rear shocks. The list goes on and on. Who made the videos is irrelevant. The facts are there to see no matter who points them out to you.

uga91 · January 2006

http://www.fordvehicles.com/trucks/f150/awards/

I know you won't believe these awards, either. However, you can go here and see that the F-150 is the most awarded truck on the market.

blkhemi · January 2006

Most stable ride? Heaviest frame? Outboard shocks? WHO CARES! The fact that the Ford has the heaviest frame contributes to the fact the Ford is really overweight, hence the back of the pack acceleration. I beg to argue about the most stable ride. I'm not the only person to have a 4WD-equipped Ram that rides really well for a truck. Stability, plushness(for a solid axle laden pick-up), quietness is all part of the package. Wish I as well as aplenty of other people could say the same for the 4WD-equipped Fords, especially the teeth-chatter-inducing FX4. By comparison, the FX4 is a railcar in light of the Off-Road packaged Ram. I should know because I've driven both. Can you say the same? Probably not.

Vented disc brakes? It does no good to have them when you have one of the longest stopping distances in the class.

To be fair, put a Ford F-150 Supercrew Lariat 4WD up against Nissan Titan Crew LE 4X4 for a tow and accel run. I say these two because they are the closest in powertrain you can get in this class.

Even tho the Nissan has only 5hp more than the Triton 5.4, the Titan blows it away by an extraordinary margin: 7 sec. flat vs 9 seconds to 60 for the Ford. They both tow about the same weight, but the weight of the bloated Ford makes it work MUCH harder than Nissan, which tows it weight with confidence.

schmedly · January 2006

I know that the Hemi is an admirable engine, but let's not get carried away without actually looking at the numbers. The Hemi is advertised as 345 HP and 375 lb-ft of torque. The Ford 6.8 puts out 362 HP and 457 lb-ft of torque. Exactly where does the hemi beat the Ford? Ford has 17 more HP and a whopping 82 lb-ft of torque. The Hemi is a strong engine for its size, but not even remotely close to the V10. As far as the GM 8.1, well, I really don't care what it makes. I wouldn't own one.

uga91 · January 2006

Trucks are not made for acceleration, they are made for hauling. Also, if you have to call the heavier and better construction of the F-150 "bloated" to feel better about yourself, then go right ahead.

blkhemi · January 2006

I stand corrected on the '06 V-10 specs. Thanks, tho I wouldn't own Ford or Chevy.:P

blkhemi · January 2006

I'm still intrigued to know what was taught at UGA? You have to have an acceleration force in order to pull. In simpler terms, POWER is what is needed to haul.

Better constuction? Then explain why I heard a late('04 or later) F-150 "squeeking" at the dentist parking lot today? Sounded like how the older trucks did when they aged. If that's better construction, then I'll past and keep my squeek-free Dodge.

uga91 · January 2006

Oh, come on. Are you serious? Trucks are geared differently than cars are. Trucks develop their power for hauling, not acceleration. I used to have a Ranger that had slow acceleration. But, if you loaded the bed up with bales of pine straw, its acceleration was almost the same as it was when empty. Why? Because it was geared and set up for hauling and not for fast acceleration. You know that 300 horses will have one result in a sedan and another in a truck.

79customd · January 2006

Turbine failure is nuthin but a myth. Sure ya have guys who have had it happen to them but I dont think that that needs to be the argument. Things happen to trucks all the time and the fact that that happened to the Duramax is more of luck than anything. How about this. Friend drives an 02 Ram 1500 with the Hemi, tears out the rear end taking off from a stop light. Durability :confuse:
What you are trying to tell me is that the ram w/ the Cummins 6 CYLINDER! with 40 less cubic inches out tows the Duramax. 6 cylinder out towing 8 cylinder due to the frame revisions, yeah, tell that to sum one who will listen

blkhemi · January 2006

I hate to be the one to tell you, but your friend does not drive an '02 Ram with a HEMI. The HEMI did not come out until mid-'03 MY.

And yes, the 6-CYL DOES tow more than the UNDURABLE Duramax TD V-8, by quite a wide margin, especially the manual transmission-equipped Duramax. The Cummins is compact BUT packs a mighty punch, all the while returning better fuel economy than that of most TD's. Maybe when you actually get a license to drive on a public road, then you'll be able to relate to how the frame and specs of the truck tell more of the story.

Until then, please reframe from any more of those UNDURABLE comparisons.

P.S.- Check out Cummins TSB's and recalls vs. Powerjoke and Undurable. You'll see a huge difference in reliability and longevity ratings. The turine/propeller failures on the Duramax were very numerous, not isolated to say the least.

79customd · January 2006

Okay, I'll go with you on the 6 out towing the 8. :confuse:
But why are you comparing the figures of the manual equipped Duramx and the auto equipped Cummins. If you are gonna compare them make it fair. The Allison T1000 is what puts the Duramax over the edge as far as towing and yes Durability. Sure its subject to turbine failure but Rams are subject to tearing out the rear end so I guess its just about even. Also, if this is such a common problem why is it we dont see Busted Duramax's all over down her if they are so Un durable. I'll be willing to let go most of the Gas engine debates but with desiels I hate for you to overlook the best on the road. Heck, we have truckers that say the Duramax is the best deseil in 3500 class trucks and they wish they would put it in big rigs, who drive Cummins trucks. Dont be lured in to beleiving that the 6 cylinder is more durable than a much larger, much newer, and much more efficent V8. My friends must be an '03 or '04 I just guessed that it was an '02 cause he bought it second hand in January 2004. You know me though. I spend less time with the stuff that dont matter and more on the technical and specific data. I dont have as much time as new F-150 owners whose trucks are constantly broken down to worry about model years.

Some people work for a living

blkhemi · January 2006

The Isuzu-built Duramax is very far from being best in class. Cummins has over 75 years experience of building tough and long-lasting diesels. Their 6 cylinder formula has worked for as long as time, so why would they mess up a good thing just to add 2 cylinders? You ever heard the saying, "it ain't what ya got , it's how ya use it". That is Cummins philosophy. This company along with Detroit Diesel and International know how to make a TD.

If you'd check out construction sites around the country, you're likely to see more Cummins Dodge and Powerstroke Ford's than anything else. Why? Because the people know what works and what doesn't. Since when does a larger engine last longer than a smaller one? That doesn't make any since.

You're likely not to see any diesel equipped light trucks broken down for the reason they are designed to withstand long running hours without hesitation. You ever wondered why 18-wheeler drivers hardly ever turn their rigs off?

To say the least, I've driven Cummins-equipped Rams for quite sometime now. All have acheived the 300k mile mark without a single problem. One actually made it 412k miles before the turbo replacement and engine overhaul. So when you get old enough to buy your own diesel, you'll see what I mean.

blckislandguy · January 2006

Blkkhemi, thanks for all the info. But lets not get carried away. The Cummins B Series while a good engine and best in its class is not a severe duty diesel. Sure, as a six it is configured better than a V8 (an in line block is far more rigid and gives you more room for the bearing surfaces). But, unlike a "real diesel" it doesn't have any sleeves (or liners) and is a relatively lightweight engine. This means that unlike a sleeved engine you can't do an in chassis overhaul and that you are going to get probably only one overbore out of the block.

I sense that some of those who own them fantasize that they are real Class Eight truckers (why anyone fantasizes about a sedentary $9 an hour job surrounded by druggies is another topic) but that doesn't make the B Series into a million mile engine.

blkhemi · January 2006

The Cummins TD engine is a marvel of internal combustion. This engine is very compact yet is durable to withstand the riggers of a harsh life. Take for instance my '98 Dodge Ram Quad Cab CTD 3500 4X4. I use this as an example because it is the one out of my whole fleet that has the most mileage. At 412,000 miles, it needed it's first overhaul and turbo swap. It was a relatively "easy" overhaul, despite it's "sleeveless" design. It currently has 547,000 miles on it and it has not missed a beat. So to make it short, I'm pretty sure it'll be a million mile engine.

Do you own a diesel-equipped truck? Probably not because as you said on this Dodge forum elsewhere that you don't agree with a person paying an $5500 upcharge for a diesel engine. The Cummins is a million-mile engine, maybe more.

P.S.- I'd choose my choice of words more carefully as there maybe some people offended by you in saying their 9 buck an hour job is "sedentary". And not all hang with druggies. Get knowledeged.

blckislandguy · January 2006

Blkhemi, you are a knowledgeable guy about specs. I respect and have learned from that. But maybe you are quick to draw hasty inferences. Yes, I do own diesel trucks. My company fleet has 7 and they are on the road every day here in New England. Having said that, I don't think that buying a 3/4 ton diesel pickup as a commuter vehicle is a good allocation of money. I can make the $5500 upcharge grow much faster in an emerging market bond fund without worrying about where I am going to buy fuel if I want to stay late at the gymn some night.

The B Series is obviously the class engine of the light duty market. In no way though is it a million mile engine. Yours ran 412,000 miles before overhaul. In fact, people in the industry describe it and almost any engine without sleeves as a throw away engine. I'm happy that your rebuild was "easy" but think about how much easier it would have been to have just pushed the liners out and new ones in without having to bore the block.

Finally, I think we can all agree that driving a Class 8 truck is very sedentary (I don't see too many trim guys getting out of those sleeper cabs), doesn't pay very well on an hourly basis, and does expose one to unsavory people. Apparently the job is very unappealing because there is a nationwide shortage of drivers.

Now for a question to you. The Ram 1500 and 2500 are almost exactly the same price. With the 1500 you get a IFS, rack and pinion, better handling, and a lesser engine. The 2500 gives you a sold front axle, recirculating ball steering, same frame, larger diff, and the hemi (although not with the trick cylinder shut down feature). Do you think that in normal service over 100,000 miles the 2500 will be cheaper to run because the front end will last longer? I know people, admittedly who plowed, who are now spending $3000 on front end work on 2003/4 F250s and will probably face that again in another two years.

blkhemi · January 2006

It all depends on the life the truck lead. The 2500 does have a stouter front end to handle the really nasty stuff. It's durable solid axles f/r are enough to keep it out of suspension related services less often than the IFS- equipped models. HOWEVER, this would not be my choice for personal transport as this thing along with Ford's and Chevy's gets pretty bouncy without a load on it's back.

For the record, I too am based out of New England (Maine) and I couldn't imagine what it would feel like when someone goes out to turn over their Powerstroke or Duramax only to have nothing happen. My Cummins trucks have turned over everytime, including one morning when the temp read -63 F BELOW 0. It gets no colder than that my friends, and I'd hope I'd have a dependable enough truck to get me where I'm going. This is why I preach Cummins so much because they're the only medium duty diesel engine supplier to do "extreme cold weather testing". Extreme as in 30 below. Not 32 F like most of the other makers.

blckislandguy · January 2006

Blkhemi, you're right the Cummins is a quality engine. So good in fact that it probably saved the Dodge pickup truck line in the dark days of the mid-90s when it wasn't competitive except for the Cummins option.

Let me ask you again about frames. The '05 frame is different from the '06 but is it simply differnent in that the '06 has the crushable extensions out front? Is that a significant difference? Is the 2500 frame different from the 1500 only in the number of cross members?

schmedly · January 2006

The entire frame is new, from my understanding. Adding the new crush zones would not qualify thier advertising of being the strongest, stiffest frame for Dodge yet. The 1500 and 2500 frames are different, not just in # cross members. The 2500 has to be stronger due to the higher payload rating and adding crossmembers will not do that. I do believe that the 2500 and 3500 share the same frame. The main differences there is the suspension components and possibly a different rear axle.

blkhemi · January 2006

The frame for '06 is completely new. It is said to be stiffer by quite a margin. It is thicker yet it allows the Ram to take the claim to be quietest in class. There is also new steering components and suspension mounting points that allow the Ram to ride very well for a truck.

The 4X4-equipped Rams also switched from the dated torsion bar setup to a fresh coil-over-shock IRS, which eliminated the notorious bobbing motion that the '02-'05 Ram had, especially the 20" wheel equipped models.

As for the HD models, the frame revisions carried over into that line also. Their frames are even thicker and several crossmembers and various other things allow it to tow upwards of 18k pounds. They do differ in rear diff sizes, gear ratios, wheel/tire options, and tow equipment.

So to say the least, the new frame shed some needed light on the Ram pick-up. It has made it to be tops in it's class in several catagories. And to that, add a new instrument panel/dash, HEMI w/Multi-Displacement System(for better mileage), new front-end styling, and of course the 1500,2500, and 3500 MegaCab models, and Ram has the makings of taking the sales crown from you know who.:P

P.S.- If things continue the way they are in Dearborn, everyone is going to be saying in 5-years, F-15who?????.:P

blckislandguy · January 2006

Blkhemi, thanks for the info. I agree. But, after all these nice improvements, would it be too much to ask Dodge to have nicer, more F150 like interiors? Even the upscale SLT interior isn't as nice as the Ford, particularly the center stack.

blkhemi · February 2006

Yeah, it sure is pretty, but is sure is not put together well. Several journalist and customers have complaints about squeaks and rattles coming from that gorgeous dash board. The gear selector broke apart on 2 different editors in 2 different publications driving 2 entirely different F-150's. This speaks volumes of solidity and quality engineering, or lack thereof.

My Dodge's have never sqweeked or rattled in the time that the supposed "best in class" F-150 started too. ALL pick-ups will start to rattle. It's gonna happen. But at 5,000 miles on the odo? I don't think so.

uga91 · February 2006

You might want to reference page 108 of the March 2006 issue of Car and Driver magazine. In naming the Ford F-150 the top pickup (against the Ram, Ram Mega Cab, Sierra, Ridgeline, Isuzu i-350, Mark LT and Mitsu Raider) they say: "...we are always amazed and delighted whenever we open the door of an F-150 and view the beautiful cockpit that Ford has crafted. Everything from the shape of the dashboard to the design of the instruments to the quality of the switches and knobs is first-rate." Car and Driver goes on to say the F-150 "...feels as rigid as the most solid sedans and this provides a sense of quality and confidence that no other truck can match."

You can keep spouting off your urban myths if you want to, the rest of us know better. Have a nice day.

blkhemi · February 2006

that is the same publication that bashed Ford for giving the Ford a nice interior but no good craftsmanship with it in the long-term test. So C&D is still contradicting themselves. Nothing's changed. And the Ford still is a quality nightmare to it's owners.

P.S.- You're the only person on this thread who likes to Fix Or Repair Daily. There is no other "us" who know better. And moreover, this is supposed to be a Chevy V. Dodge thread. No Ford was ever mentioned. They have plenty of brokedown Fords on the F-150 forum. Join them. Oh, and just to let you know, it's not just how good the pick-up is when new, but how long it'll last. Ford's long-term durability is marginal at best whereas Dodge, Toyota, and GM owners get to enjoy their rides a little longer without the worry of the usual Ford every-two-year trade in.

blckislandguy · February 2006

The new issue of Motor Trend Trucks (I may have the name wrong) has a big comparo of pickups. In the article they go over the Dodge frame change from '05 to '06. Yes, it is all new, stiffer, hydro formed, wider, different mounting points, etc. etc. A whole new thing.

Blkhemi, with regard to the F150, check out the F150 boards. They have a tremendous vibration between 45-60 MPH that no one has been able to fix. This is a major problem for Ford and it is not limited to any one body style or drivetrain. IMHO anyone who buys one is nuts.

fastrietz · February 2006

This is mainly to blkhemi, I have read most of youre posts and u seem very knowledgeble. Anyways i own a 2005 dodge ram 2500 with the cummins. I was just wondering if u think that the 2006 is that much better of a truck. So what i am asking is if u would go ou of youre way and buy an 06. Any comments would be great.

uga91 · February 2006

You may be right. However, Motor Trend call the F-150 the class fo the full size truck field--the current design winning Truck of the Year for 2004. The all new Ram got beat out this year by the Honda truck built on a mini van platform. What does that say about the Dodge? Now, Car and Driver has named the F-150 the best pickup as well. As far as the quality nightmare you wish were a reality...ask J.D. Power and Sons about the quality of the Ford F-150.

This is not a real Dodge vs. Chevy thread. As stated before, the 14 year old who started it knows nothing about trucks--and has not been around for a while. I like the way your attitude becomes "You have to leave" when confronted with a better vehicle choice--proven on the field, not in your imagination. I wish there was activity here in Town Hall for the Ford. Based on the size of the Dodge Problems board, I guess more Dodge owners have more down time to allow them to post more often.

uga91 · February 2006

I do not have "tremendous vibration" in mine. I do, in the name of honesty, get a slight vibration at about 55 mph that is gone at 60 mph. My wife's uncle just bought a 2006 Avalon. He comments that it also vibrates at about the same point. I guess he was "nuts" for buying a Toyota, huh?

blkhemi · February 2006

I have reviewed a many comments about the vibratory problems that MANY F-150 buyers experience(ing), especially when loaded with a trailer or bed full weight. Maybe it's those glorious "out-dated er,er, out-board shocks???? Or maybe it's because the "supposed" best in class frame is not welded the way Ford claims?? Or maybe it's the usual Ford "bad" transmissions when it engages 4th gear??(How is it the best in class truck still has only 4 gears in the transmission when everyone else, including the upcoming GM's, have 5 or more?)

There are so many unanswered questions as to why this could occur. Maybe Ford couldn't afford the extra long bolts anymore as it is sending the business into bankruptcy. See uga91, these aren't urban myths. These are problems that your fellow Ford drivers face on a daily basis. They can enjoy their brokedown time in their crisp interior listening to Toby. OOPS, the radio is broken too. Too bad.

blkhemi · February 2006

The main difference in the '05 V '06 Ram HD is the suspension and the frame. If you're like me, then you greatly appreciate the absence of the bobbing motions the '06 Ram deleted. The powertrains remained the same.

The frame is much better put together and the suspension geometry and mounting points have allowed even the 2500/3500 to give a decent ride, even when loaded. My '06 MegaCab and my '06 3500 4X4 both have the Cummins in them and let me tell you from experience, these are the most quietest, easy to drive Rams ever. I traded both of my '04 and '05 HD's for these and the difference is noticeable from the instance you start to drive.

So, if you like to enjoy your pick-up a little more, then the '06 may be the truck for you. I've enjoyed the both of them since day one.

P.S.- The new frame revisions have also increased tow ratings, so if you tow heavy, then it may be something to look into.

blckislandguy · February 2006

Let me give the F150 vibration problem a shot. Afterall, no one else has been able to identify the cause. I think that the combination of Ford's introduction of rack & pinion steering and a new, rigid, seemingly better designed frame have resulted in more vibration being felt by the driver. Take a look at the BMW boards. They have lots of wheel balance/vibration problems because the rack & pinion transmits everything right to the steering wheel. Apparently the F250 with its recirculating ball steering and not so fully boxed frame doesn't have this problem.

I can't answer why other rack & pinion steering/rigid chassis sets ups (e.g., the Dodge 1500) don't have this problem. But, this might be because the suspension pickups are mounted differently etc.

And yes, I think that anyone who buys anything which has a significant minority of owners experiencing problems with it, is nuts. Here in New England most people spend most of their non-interstate miles between 55 and 60 MPH.

roughneck · February 2006

I have driven the both on 12hour+ road trips(04 chevy and 05 dodge) and like the chevy better. Both are good trucks, but the comfort in the chevy is much better than the dodge. Dodge needs to seriously upgrade the auto tranny and ride. It is ancient compared to the allison. Only 4 gears and shifts are a lot more noticeable. To me the cummins was still louder than the duramax and performance actually felt about the same. I found that hard to believe with such a power difference, but by the seat of the pants it felt the same.

blkhemi · February 2006

That Ram that you took a road trip in was an '05. Take that same trip in an '06, and you'll immediately feel the difference in ride quality, steering, and NVH. The overall feel of the '06 is very solid, a lot more than the '05. I am a Dodge HD owner of some 20 years and couldn't imagine owning anything else.

As to the Cummins, it'll feel the same in power, until it is time to do some heavy towing. Trust me, it will be markedly different.

dustyk · February 2006

Well, ride and comfort are very subjective. Regardless I, too, have been in both and I don't find the seats in the GM versions anywhere near as comfortable as the RAM. The ride in the RAM is more controled, in my opinion, and I can see why some would equate this to a "better" ride in the Chevy. But I most certainly don't think the RAM has a horrible ride. Heck, they all ride better than my '89 Chevy C15.

Handling, again in my opinion, is better in the RAM.

Just to be clear, it is obvious that if you were in a automatic transmission equiped RAM that only had 4 forward gears, it either had to be a V6 or a Cummins diesel. All RAM V8s get a automatic with six forward gears.

A five speed would offer an advantage in the Cummins equiped RAM, but that by itself wouldn't keep me away. The Allison for all its hype is not without some negatives, mostly the inordinate complaints of noise after 30,000 miles, some vibration issues, and irratic shifting complaints.

The new 48RE, although a four speed, is as stout as any automatic on the market and more than enough behind the Cummins engine and since introduction has been extremely reliable. And when it comes to lower maintenance costs, in my experience the Cummins is the leader.

Regards,
Dusty

dustyk · February 2006

Blkhemi,

I have not been in a '06 RAM as of yet, but do you really think there is a marked difference from '05? The new frame stiffness would reduce some body jiggle and shudder, but I never detected any in all of the '05 and down RAMs I've been in. The '02-'05 RAMs were always pretty quiet, too, in my opinion. I know they've changed the suspension geometry enough that ride has likely been affected, but again I never felt that prior years rode bad at all.

Just took a trip with some friends and I rode shotgun in a new F-150. After sixty miles or so I got into another's '04 RAM. I think the F-150 was a tad quieter at highway speed, but that was the only difference to my ears. The RAMs 4.7 motor seemed quieter, though. Overall I think the two were pretty darn close!

Best regards,
Dusty

drfill · February 2006

What does the future hold for the RAM?

Will it get the 6.1 Hemi, and the Dakota turned into the "Rampage" with the current Hemi?

I sell Dodge in Houston, and that's what I would do for 2008!

DrFill

blkhemi · February 2006

The '05 vs. '06 Ram in terms of ride quality, steering, and quietness were improved. The ride is less bouncy, especially models equipped with 20" wheels. The HD models benefited the most from the changes in that they're less prone to bobbing in dips and moguls.

I've got a '06 1500 4X4 w/HEMI and a 2500 MegaCab CTD and they're both seem to be better than the '04 and '05 I replaced them for in terms frame rigidness and solidity. The Ram is vastly better than the Ford in terms of overall ride and steering, IMO. Maybe that's why the Dodge is now the longest lasting full size pick-up.

blkhemi · February 2006

It has been said that Dodge, for the '07 model year will do a SRT-8 version of the Ram, meaning it will get the 6.1L-425-hp version that is used in other DC vehicles. As to everything else, we'll just have to wait and see.

thereisnospoon · March 2006

BULL

Everything you said is wrong, including "Stick with the Chevy"

Outboard mounted shocks are not a gimmick - trust me - they do improve ride quality, help in cornering, aid a little bit with towing, and DO work. I guess you have never driven one, but are so quick to bash. You must be a bowtie lover with blinders on.

If you want terminal problems all the way down the line, either buy a Chevy that was made before approx 1990, or ditch it and get a Ford or a Dodge.

patriot03 · March 2006

Just a good story I thought I'd let the Ford and GM owners in on. I'll be graduating with a mechanical engineering degree a year from now, I'm just getting through all of the tough engineering classes. My thermodynamics professor was a manufacturing engineer for GM for 20 years. So one Friday he drives up one day in a brand new 2005 F-150. In class we asked him why he worked for GM for so long and was buying a Ford, and his response, "You can imply what you want from that." Later we found out that he thought GM was lagging behind Ford in ride quality and Dodge in performance. However, the next Monday he's driving his Honda motorcycle, so we asked him where the F-150 was. Turns out it died on him with less than 2000 miles on it. He was stranded half of Saturday on the side of I-20 watching his nice riding Ford sit there while he called the tow truck. Needless to say, he now drives up in a beautiful silver Ram 1500 Quad Cab every day. All I'm saying is, "You can imply what you want."

blkhemi · March 2006

Spot on patriot. I guess I'm not the only one to have someone experience the "Built Ford Tough" F-150 choke out.

redline_455 · April 2006

You raise some very good points, and are right about the Cummins TD...it is a very good engine. Watch your facts when stating information about the competition though, and what is right and wrong. The PowerStroke has had MANY problems over the past few year, one of which IS complete turbine failure. In fact, Ford has 58 class action lawsuits pending right now over that engine and F-250/350/450 combination. There are over 325 thousand units that are affected with over 77 technical issues listed for the 6.0L TD. Compare this to 14 for the cummins, and only...(wait for it)..'8' for the Duramax. I wouldn't write the Duramax off, and as far as towing, find someone with an LLY, or LBZ Duramax powered HD GMC/Chevy, and have a tow off..just don't go for slips because you'll be without a RAM at the end of the day. The 40000 mile 'melt down' is ONLY a myth and sould be concidered that. Every engine has it's bad apples produced, and none of the TD's that are in current pickups are an exception. The Cummins is concidered a 'Med-Duty' engine but is manufactured to different tolerances than anything that would go into a heavy machine or marine-industrial application. They are not at all the same engine, even though they share the same configuration and 'similar' opperating components. I am very familiar with all three major brands of domestic TD's that are currently produced, and each have their strengths and weaknesses. The Cummins 600 is a great engine, but doesn't pull well in the higher RPM, the Ford is very strong when it's not broken (amazing high RPM pull), and the Chevy seems to be quite solid as well (amazing low to midrange power, and the high RPM is good as well but not like the Ford). If I was to choose a tow rig, I would go with a Duramax/Allison combo. Can't beat the CAT like power. I manage a dept that works with almost 200 TD powered Trucks and opperators every day in an industry that works them HARD. To put this issue to rest after 30 or so forum pages of people fighting back and forth on which one of their 'pride-and-joy' is better than the other: NONE. Like I said before..they each do their own thing well. DODGE guys...pull you heads out of your bums..there is life beoned a Hemi and a Cummins, some of which is actualy better..Ford guys, admit when your current product sucks (because they do..repairs and mechanics don't lie...look it up on the internet read about it, strong frames don't mean crap when the TD's broken ALL THE F#&*'n time)..and Chevy guys, just becuase your old 350 used to rock, doesn't mean that their new stuff is anything to ride home about. Yes the D-Max is the top of the chart for numbers right now, but that doesn't mean everything. NOW!!! stop arguing and go enjoy your trucks. :mad:

blkhemi · April 2006

Not quite so fast redline, I happen to know that there are way more than "8" pending/current class-action law suits against GM for the Duramax diesel.I know for sure there are at least 16 in my state of New York alone, more than F-Series. So my facts were indeed valid. The Duramax is prone to turbine failure, right along with the Ford. The Isuzu-built Duramax just doesn't have the longevity the Cummins has exhibited for over 60 years in the med/heavy duty category.

The Dodge isn't without fault, but for a tow rig, the new '06 2500/3500 CTD's are the way to go, especially if you want to stick it yourself as the Duramax 6-speed cuts torque from 620 back down 520lb-ft. May not sound like a lot, but high up in place like the Sierra Nevada's, you'll need every horse and pony you can get.

And you're right, lets put this to bed. All of these trucks have their ups and downs, and what it virtually comes down to is brand prefrence. They all get the job done at the end of the day, but which will make it back home is the $1 million question???? :P

redline_455 · April 2006

That's a superb responce blkhemi!!! I like that you have an open mind, and I can't agree more about they all have their ups and downs! I just want to correct a couple more things, and then I'm done. The '8' that I posted were 'known posted technical issues'(I guess that's the nice way of saying 'flaws'..LOL), not law-suits. I actually don't know how many law-suits GM's got going on, but I'm sure your totaly right with the 16. I'm just happy that GM dumped the 6.5 and is actually striving to work with another company just like Ford, and Dodge to provide a decent TD for the GM fans out there. Second, the Duramax is not built by Isuzu, it's was co-designed by Isuzu with General Motors. It is built by D-Max Industries in Moranie Ohio. The current HP/Tourqe numbers are 360HP at 3000 RPM and 650-660 Ft Lbs. at 1600RPM for the Allison Combo (LBZ), and a very crapy 300/520 for the 6-speed (Booooo...). The drop in numbers is due to the fact that the ZF manual can't handle the twist. That will change in the 2007 year when the new Body/Platform is introduced, along with an updated 7-speed Manual. As far as tow rig is concered..the new Dodges are totally killer! You can't go wrong with anything that can litteraly rip the tow pin right off of a 5-wheel!! Still after driving them all and appreciating each for their different qualities, I still like ripping through the RockyMountains with an 06 Chev Duramax/Allison combo, towing a 35-foot 5th wheel, and the truck barely breaking a sweat. I'm completely impressed by that. I just hope it lasts like the proven Cummins has. For today though, at this point in time, the Duramax puts a huge smile on my face, just like your Dodge does for you, and my best friends 03 Ford TD(7.3L mind you)does for him. That is all that truly matters! Thank you again for your impressive knowledge, and great responces. If I have a Dodge question..I know where to post!!!! :-)

ddf1 · April 2006

blkhemi and redline 455 you guys are right on the money. Both trucks get the job done. But if you put a duramax or cummins in front of me I would pick the duramax to drive. To me it is funner to drive the duramax.

blkhemi · April 2006

Both of these powertrains are very decent. They get the job done right, the first time, not like having to wait until your PowerJoke gets out of the shop to move your farm equipment.

Let's face it. It's all about brand prefrence at the end of the day. We Mopar gearheads won't have it another way. Same for the bowtie clan. And with GM set to release the much-updated Silverado line, it'll be fun to see how this war heats up again.

BTW redline, i stand corrected about the Duramax. It was "designed" by Isuzu, not built. I heard GM is one-upping the Allison with 6-speeds to compete with the upcoming 6-speed, 700lb-ft Ram and '08 Tundra.

I do have one question. Why does the Powerjoke still smoke upon take-off while the Cummins and Duramax are smoke-free until you really get on it? I guess that 6.0L PowerJoke ain't no different from the old 7.3L clunker it replaces, despite the switch to common-rail injection.

Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra vs Dodge Ram

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