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They too said that the full-size truck arena has some catching up to do as the '06 Ram is now back on top like it was in '02 with the new redesign. Just more facts to be stated
325 hp/610 lb-ft - manual and automatic
Chevy-GMC/Duramax:
360 hp/650 lb-ft - automatic
300 hp/520 lb-ft - manual
Ford/Powerstroke
325 hp/570 lb-ft - manual and automatic
If you like to shift for yourself, nothing comes close to the Dodge. For the automatics, they're all pretty close since truck weight and dynamics tend to neutralize the small power differences.
kcram - Pickups Host
Funny thing is, the Ford has never won any "of the year awards" in a pure truck mag.
I know you won't believe these awards, either. However, you can go here and see that the F-150 is the most awarded truck on the market.
Vented disc brakes? It does no good to have them when you have one of the longest stopping distances in the class.
To be fair, put a Ford F-150 Supercrew Lariat 4WD up against Nissan Titan Crew LE 4X4 for a tow and accel run. I say these two because they are the closest in powertrain you can get in this class.
Even tho the Nissan has only 5hp more than the Triton 5.4, the Titan blows it away by an extraordinary margin: 7 sec. flat vs 9 seconds to 60 for the Ford. They both tow about the same weight, but the weight of the bloated Ford makes it work MUCH harder than Nissan, which tows it weight with confidence.
Better constuction? Then explain why I heard a late('04 or later) F-150 "squeeking" at the dentist parking lot today? Sounded like how the older trucks did when they aged. If that's better construction, then I'll past and keep my squeek-free Dodge.
What you are trying to tell me is that the ram w/ the Cummins 6 CYLINDER! with 40 less cubic inches out tows the Duramax. 6 cylinder out towing 8 cylinder due to the frame revisions, yeah, tell that to sum one who will listen
And yes, the 6-CYL DOES tow more than the UNDURABLE Duramax TD V-8, by quite a wide margin, especially the manual transmission-equipped Duramax. The Cummins is compact BUT packs a mighty punch, all the while returning better fuel economy than that of most TD's. Maybe when you actually get a license to drive on a public road, then you'll be able to relate to how the frame and specs of the truck tell more of the story.
Until then, please reframe from any more of those UNDURABLE comparisons.
P.S.- Check out Cummins TSB's and recalls vs. Powerjoke and Undurable. You'll see a huge difference in reliability and longevity ratings. The turine/propeller failures on the Duramax were very numerous, not isolated to say the least.
But why are you comparing the figures of the manual equipped Duramx and the auto equipped Cummins. If you are gonna compare them make it fair. The Allison T1000 is what puts the Duramax over the edge as far as towing and yes Durability. Sure its subject to turbine failure but Rams are subject to tearing out the rear end so I guess its just about even. Also, if this is such a common problem why is it we dont see Busted Duramax's all over down her if they are so Un durable. I'll be willing to let go most of the Gas engine debates but with desiels I hate for you to overlook the best on the road. Heck, we have truckers that say the Duramax is the best deseil in 3500 class trucks and they wish they would put it in big rigs, who drive Cummins trucks. Dont be lured in to beleiving that the 6 cylinder is more durable than a much larger, much newer, and much more efficent V8. My friends must be an '03 or '04 I just guessed that it was an '02 cause he bought it second hand in January 2004. You know me though. I spend less time with the stuff that dont matter and more on the technical and specific data. I dont have as much time as new F-150 owners whose trucks are constantly broken down to worry about model years.
Some people work for a living
If you'd check out construction sites around the country, you're likely to see more Cummins Dodge and Powerstroke Ford's than anything else. Why? Because the people know what works and what doesn't. Since when does a larger engine last longer than a smaller one? That doesn't make any since.
You're likely not to see any diesel equipped light trucks broken down for the reason they are designed to withstand long running hours without hesitation. You ever wondered why 18-wheeler drivers hardly ever turn their rigs off?
To say the least, I've driven Cummins-equipped Rams for quite sometime now. All have acheived the 300k mile mark without a single problem. One actually made it 412k miles before the turbo replacement and engine overhaul. So when you get old enough to buy your own diesel, you'll see what I mean.
I sense that some of those who own them fantasize that they are real Class Eight truckers (why anyone fantasizes about a sedentary $9 an hour job surrounded by druggies is another topic) but that doesn't make the B Series into a million mile engine.
Do you own a diesel-equipped truck? Probably not because as you said on this Dodge forum elsewhere that you don't agree with a person paying an $5500 upcharge for a diesel engine. The Cummins is a million-mile engine, maybe more.
P.S.- I'd choose my choice of words more carefully as there maybe some people offended by you in saying their 9 buck an hour job is "sedentary". And not all hang with druggies. Get knowledeged.
The B Series is obviously the class engine of the light duty market. In no way though is it a million mile engine. Yours ran 412,000 miles before overhaul. In fact, people in the industry describe it and almost any engine without sleeves as a throw away engine. I'm happy that your rebuild was "easy" but think about how much easier it would have been to have just pushed the liners out and new ones in without having to bore the block.
Finally, I think we can all agree that driving a Class 8 truck is very sedentary (I don't see too many trim guys getting out of those sleeper cabs), doesn't pay very well on an hourly basis, and does expose one to unsavory people. Apparently the job is very unappealing because there is a nationwide shortage of drivers.
Now for a question to you. The Ram 1500 and 2500 are almost exactly the same price. With the 1500 you get a IFS, rack and pinion, better handling, and a lesser engine. The 2500 gives you a sold front axle, recirculating ball steering, same frame, larger diff, and the hemi (although not with the trick cylinder shut down feature). Do you think that in normal service over 100,000 miles the 2500 will be cheaper to run because the front end will last longer? I know people, admittedly who plowed, who are now spending $3000 on front end work on 2003/4 F250s and will probably face that again in another two years.
For the record, I too am based out of New England (Maine) and I couldn't imagine what it would feel like when someone goes out to turn over their Powerstroke or Duramax only to have nothing happen. My Cummins trucks have turned over everytime, including one morning when the temp read -63 F BELOW 0. It gets no colder than that my friends, and I'd hope I'd have a dependable enough truck to get me where I'm going. This is why I preach Cummins so much because they're the only medium duty diesel engine supplier to do "extreme cold weather testing". Extreme as in 30 below. Not 32 F like most of the other makers.
Let me ask you again about frames. The '05 frame is different from the '06 but is it simply differnent in that the '06 has the crushable extensions out front? Is that a significant difference? Is the 2500 frame different from the 1500 only in the number of cross members?
The 4X4-equipped Rams also switched from the dated torsion bar setup to a fresh coil-over-shock IRS, which eliminated the notorious bobbing motion that the '02-'05 Ram had, especially the 20" wheel equipped models.
As for the HD models, the frame revisions carried over into that line also. Their frames are even thicker and several crossmembers and various other things allow it to tow upwards of 18k pounds. They do differ in rear diff sizes, gear ratios, wheel/tire options, and tow equipment.
So to say the least, the new frame shed some needed light on the Ram pick-up. It has made it to be tops in it's class in several catagories. And to that, add a new instrument panel/dash, HEMI w/Multi-Displacement System(for better mileage), new front-end styling, and of course the 1500,2500, and 3500 MegaCab models, and Ram has the makings of taking the sales crown from you know who.:P
P.S.- If things continue the way they are in Dearborn, everyone is going to be saying in 5-years, F-15who?????.:P
My Dodge's have never sqweeked or rattled in the time that the supposed "best in class" F-150 started too. ALL pick-ups will start to rattle. It's gonna happen. But at 5,000 miles on the odo? I don't think so.
You can keep spouting off your urban myths if you want to, the rest of us know better. Have a nice day.
P.S.- You're the only person on this thread who likes to Fix Or Repair Daily. There is no other "us" who know better. And moreover, this is supposed to be a Chevy V. Dodge thread. No Ford was ever mentioned. They have plenty of brokedown Fords on the F-150 forum. Join them. Oh, and just to let you know, it's not just how good the pick-up is when new, but how long it'll last. Ford's long-term durability is marginal at best whereas Dodge, Toyota, and GM owners get to enjoy their rides a little longer without the worry of the usual Ford every-two-year trade in.
Blkhemi, with regard to the F150, check out the F150 boards. They have a tremendous vibration between 45-60 MPH that no one has been able to fix. This is a major problem for Ford and it is not limited to any one body style or drivetrain. IMHO anyone who buys one is nuts.
This is not a real Dodge vs. Chevy thread. As stated before, the 14 year old who started it knows nothing about trucks--and has not been around for a while. I like the way your attitude becomes "You have to leave" when confronted with a better vehicle choice--proven on the field, not in your imagination. I wish there was activity here in Town Hall for the Ford. Based on the size of the Dodge Problems board, I guess more Dodge owners have more down time to allow them to post more often.
There are so many unanswered questions as to why this could occur. Maybe Ford couldn't afford the extra long bolts anymore as it is sending the business into bankruptcy. See uga91, these aren't urban myths. These are problems that your fellow Ford drivers face on a daily basis. They can enjoy their brokedown time in their crisp interior listening to Toby. OOPS, the radio is broken too. Too bad.
The frame is much better put together and the suspension geometry and mounting points have allowed even the 2500/3500 to give a decent ride, even when loaded. My '06 MegaCab and my '06 3500 4X4 both have the Cummins in them and let me tell you from experience, these are the most quietest, easy to drive Rams ever. I traded both of my '04 and '05 HD's for these and the difference is noticeable from the instance you start to drive.
So, if you like to enjoy your pick-up a little more, then the '06 may be the truck for you. I've enjoyed the both of them since day one.
P.S.- The new frame revisions have also increased tow ratings, so if you tow heavy, then it may be something to look into.
I can't answer why other rack & pinion steering/rigid chassis sets ups (e.g., the Dodge 1500) don't have this problem. But, this might be because the suspension pickups are mounted differently etc.
And yes, I think that anyone who buys anything which has a significant minority of owners experiencing problems with it, is nuts. Here in New England most people spend most of their non-interstate miles between 55 and 60 MPH.
As to the Cummins, it'll feel the same in power, until it is time to do some heavy towing. Trust me, it will be markedly different.
Handling, again in my opinion, is better in the RAM.
Just to be clear, it is obvious that if you were in a automatic transmission equiped RAM that only had 4 forward gears, it either had to be a V6 or a Cummins diesel. All RAM V8s get a automatic with six forward gears.
A five speed would offer an advantage in the Cummins equiped RAM, but that by itself wouldn't keep me away. The Allison for all its hype is not without some negatives, mostly the inordinate complaints of noise after 30,000 miles, some vibration issues, and irratic shifting complaints.
The new 48RE, although a four speed, is as stout as any automatic on the market and more than enough behind the Cummins engine and since introduction has been extremely reliable. And when it comes to lower maintenance costs, in my experience the Cummins is the leader.
Regards,
Dusty
I have not been in a '06 RAM as of yet, but do you really think there is a marked difference from '05? The new frame stiffness would reduce some body jiggle and shudder, but I never detected any in all of the '05 and down RAMs I've been in. The '02-'05 RAMs were always pretty quiet, too, in my opinion. I know they've changed the suspension geometry enough that ride has likely been affected, but again I never felt that prior years rode bad at all.
Just took a trip with some friends and I rode shotgun in a new F-150. After sixty miles or so I got into another's '04 RAM. I think the F-150 was a tad quieter at highway speed, but that was the only difference to my ears. The RAMs 4.7 motor seemed quieter, though. Overall I think the two were pretty darn close!
Best regards,
Dusty
Will it get the 6.1 Hemi, and the Dakota turned into the "Rampage" with the current Hemi?
I sell Dodge in Houston, and that's what I would do for 2008!
DrFill
I've got a '06 1500 4X4 w/HEMI and a 2500 MegaCab CTD and they're both seem to be better than the '04 and '05 I replaced them for in terms frame rigidness and solidity. The Ram is vastly better than the Ford in terms of overall ride and steering, IMO. Maybe that's why the Dodge is now the longest lasting full size pick-up.
Everything you said is wrong, including "Stick with the Chevy"
Outboard mounted shocks are not a gimmick - trust me - they do improve ride quality, help in cornering, aid a little bit with towing, and DO work. I guess you have never driven one, but are so quick to bash. You must be a bowtie lover with blinders on.
If you want terminal problems all the way down the line, either buy a Chevy that was made before approx 1990, or ditch it and get a Ford or a Dodge.
The Dodge isn't without fault, but for a tow rig, the new '06 2500/3500 CTD's are the way to go, especially if you want to stick it yourself as the Duramax 6-speed cuts torque from 620 back down 520lb-ft. May not sound like a lot, but high up in place like the Sierra Nevada's, you'll need every horse and pony you can get.
And you're right, lets put this to bed. All of these trucks have their ups and downs, and what it virtually comes down to is brand prefrence. They all get the job done at the end of the day, but which will make it back home is the $1 million question???? :P
Let's face it. It's all about brand prefrence at the end of the day. We Mopar gearheads won't have it another way. Same for the bowtie clan. And with GM set to release the much-updated Silverado line, it'll be fun to see how this war heats up again.
BTW redline, i stand corrected about the Duramax. It was "designed" by Isuzu, not built. I heard GM is one-upping the Allison with 6-speeds to compete with the upcoming 6-speed, 700lb-ft Ram and '08 Tundra.
I do have one question. Why does the Powerjoke still smoke upon take-off while the Cummins and Duramax are smoke-free until you really get on it? I guess that 6.0L PowerJoke ain't no different from the old 7.3L clunker it replaces, despite the switch to common-rail injection.