Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

robr2 · January 2013

Do all car dealers really have the same overhead? In my area, taxes and operating expenses (especially value of land) vary by county. It is generally known if you travel a county or two over, you can save money. People do it.

I guess it's based on one's perspective. Around here, taxes are state based and the state is pretty small so driving an hour west of Boston probably doesn't save you anything. You can go an hour north to NH but the cost of being in business there isn't any less than metro Boston. I would presume that all dealers have fixed overhead costs to run the buildings, pay the staff, et al. I wouldn't think the difference would be in the thousands on the price of the car - maybe a couple of hundred. IMHO, driving 2 hours to save $200 on a $35K purchase isn't a good use of my time.

fintail · January 2013

Certainly a partnership, but maybe not a 50/50 partnership. When it comes down to it, the execs/upper managers hold the keys, they have their fingers on the button, and they usually fail - while usually never answering for it. Then when things fail, it is the actual worker who gets the blame and pays the price. The supposed leaders get a pass during bad times when union demands look steep - the stuff rolls downhill, but they fail to try to reign things in during good times, as they are busy gloating and swimming in undeserved "earnings" when they are usually just succeeding via luck. Just as the societal ideal of "shared sacrifice" is a lie today, the ideal of it in the working world is also a hoax.

Act like a traitor (doing business with hostile "partners" with no thought to consequences, running offshore to dodge taxes etc), get treated like a traitor. If these corporations are people too, time to hold them to the same accountability.

gagrice · January 2013

I wouldn't think the difference would be in the thousands on the price of the car

I think it has more to do with the brand. Not all dealers will exchange vehicles. So if you want the best deal on a vehicle equipped as you would like you may have to travel. When I bought the Sequoia I sent emails to every dealer in San Diego County. I told them what I wanted and to give me they best price at the start. Two dealers responded with vehicles I would accept. One was a limited with just about every option for $10k under MSRP. The other was $5k under MSRP for the SR5. I would have been happy with the SR5 for less than they were asking. I ended up with the loaded Limited for less than the other dealer closer to home wanted for the SR5.

Another factor in CA is property tax. Two dealers with comparable valued dealerships could pay a huge amount of difference in property tax with our Prop 13. The older dealership has the advantage on taxes.

gagrice · January 2013

Pat Buchanan wrote a good piece on bailing out when you feel your government is becoming repressive. I like this statement best:

Californians flee to Nevada, Arizona, Idaho and Colorado to escape Golden State taxes. Are they disloyal to their home state, or are they doing what is right by their families, their first responsibility?

This could apply to buying cars because they have a domestic label on them. The needs of my family come before the needs of the D3 workers families.

No when to hold em, and know when to get the heck out

dieselone · January 2013

But so many consumers think it's ok to get the showroom person to spend half a day with them designing a kitchen or bath and then go and shop each item on the internet.

Yeah that, I have a problem with. When I buy something online, it's something that I don't really need to test out first. For instance, I don't need a salesman to explain to me how to work "Smokey and the Bandit" on blu-ray. And I know what size I take in Under Armour, what waist/length Levis I wear, what size Adidas I wear, etc.

I agree.

I ordered a 65" Panasonic plasma last week (no one around here had the model I wanted in stock). I ended up going through my local Best Buy. Amazon was the same price including delivery (Best Buy is far more aggressive in matching online prices now). Sure I have to pay sales tax up front. But for whatever reason, I feel some comfort ordering big items locally.

Considering I was ordering a TV which BB didn't have in the showroom, the sales person was impressively knowledgeable about the particular model I wanted to order. Crazy that this TV cost less than a 32" Sony Bravia XBR LCD I bought in '05 or '06.

BTW, I have a 35" Sony Trinitron in my basement free to whoever wants to come and get it. Be sure to bring some friends to help;)

fintail · January 2013

Sadly for many, paying any taxes at all is "repressive", no matter that the taxes paid by those in the past both helped them get started and aided their past and present success. Modern societies don't come around for free, and these people simply wouldn't have been able to obtain (I hesitate to say "earn"...) their gold elsewhere. I don't quite see the fleeing traitors the same as buying the best vehicle for your needs.

Those who run away like cowards should become in effect, marked men.

I'd like to see what Buchanan would say to this economic solution - simply roll both taxes and spending back to pre-Dubya levels.

tlong · January 2013

Sadly for many, paying any taxes at all is "repressive", no matter that the taxes paid by those in the past both helped them get started and aided their past and present success. Modern societies don't come around for free, and these people simply wouldn't have been able to obtain (I hesitate to say "earn"...) their gold elsewhere. I don't quite see the fleeing traitors the same as buying the best vehicle for your needs.

Those who run away like cowards should become in effect, marked men.

That's all good and nice, but then the real issues are mostly beyond the execs. The structure is set up that the job requires fiduciary responsibility to the corporation. An exec isn't doing their job if they leave large amounts of money on the table. The current legal structures do not bind a corporation to a country, so they are free to move about the world. In fact, the same "unfriendly" countries are found to be "most favored" by our wonderful government. And that trading avenue opened up before corporations even had financial interests there. So being "a traitor" in your vernacular is actually doing the logical, legal, and responsible thing per the current laws and job descriptions.

If you want that to be different, then the rules need to change, and that's a governmental issue. Fundamentally the Congress is spineless and beholden to getting their own jobs renewed every few years. And then you have the parties, which are pretty much like the unions for politicians. Don't think independently, or you are out. Toe the line. And then we have the Supreme Court, reaffirming that campaign finance reform shouldn't happen because corporations really are still people. And that causes a cascade of effects.

So it's highly simplistic to blame it all on company management. They are functioning, mostly logically, within the system that they have been provided in which to do their jobs. And yes, they are going to compare their own salaries against their peers and then you have compensation inflation that's wildly out of control.

So GM in China isn't traitorous for an exec whose job it is to try and maximize GMs markets and profits. Perhaps that's a poor example, though, since GM's management is still struggling with their understanding of "maximizing profits".

fintail · January 2013

If the issues are beyond the execs/upper managers, why do they continue to command endless bloated salaries and perks? That entire sector of the workforce is a one trick pony - cut costs, nothing else, yet society still fails to give any blame. They have nothing else of value, little substance. There's a difference between profitable and sustainable - but the buck stops at the first. A big reason for so many issues we have today. One can act within existing laws and still be treacherous, when those laws are illogical and broken. Simply being legal does not make something defendable or right. Only legal, so an untouchable few can continue to reap undeserved rewards. Responsible? To the Romneys and Buffets perhaps - they and their peers are doing better since before the depression, but on the backs of who?

Rules change? That's all good and nice, but fantasy. Corporations control government, not vice versa. Until the house of cards collapses, no rules will change.

Corporate leadership buys the regulations they want, but they don't pay for the externalities. Who else is to blame? The politicos? Sure, the average upper manager/exec is no different than a congressdolt or lobbyist. Both sides deserve a purge of sorts, solve the debt by making it public and putting it on TV. Share some of that sacrifice. At the least, let some potheads out of prison and replace the spots with suits.

Running to slimy tax havens and dealing with "partners" who are really just playing along to steal tech are indeed treacherous activities. Even if legal. When laws are created by a few for a few, they do not make anything right.

tlong · January 2013

Running to slimy tax havens and dealing with "partners" who are really just playing along to steal tech are indeed treacherous activities.

Yeah, ok, so? One can easily argue that the average standard of living in the US, and the consumption of resources and degradation of the world is on the backs of the third world. Therefore, what we all do is also treacherous, just like corporate execs. And impacts the earth in far more significant ways. Those execs are making products and services that feed OUR appetites. So perhaps we should all go live in a hunter/gatherer commune if we are really so concerned?

To keep this on topic, is Toyota also treacherous for building cars in the US? How about for taking those tax breaks for a new plant? Or is the government treacherous for offering the breaks in the first place? Where does it end?

And by the way, why do so many people feel Chrysler still deserves to be considered a "US" brand if it is owned by Fiat? Because of some legacy that no longer applies? It makes no sense...

fintail · January 2013

I'd say the US as a whole has actually done more to earn its (declining, thanks worst generation) standard of living than the typical managerial/exec "leadership" (ha) type has done to earn their standard of living. Therefore what we do is treacherous? Some fun logic there.

Funny though, and what I might expect from experienced management who has climbed a ladder that doesn't exist anymore and now can't accept any critique or questioning of what they and their peers have wrought.

To some Japanese, Toyota might be treacherous, but not nearly to the extent of some other firms who do business with "partners" who then steal the tech, and use reprehensible labor and environmental standards to advance themselves. When does it end? Deflection, when the original question is to be evaded like a slimy smarmy zillionaire running off to Monaco or Singapore.

There isn't really a "US" brand out there anymore. But some employ more Americans than others, for those concerned with such things. Those who do so aren't always traditional American names. A car with a "1" or "2" VIN could easily be more "American" than one with a "3".

tlong · January 2013

I'd say the US as a whole has actually done more to earn its (declining, thanks worst generation) standard of living than the typical managerial/exec "leadership" (ha) type has done to earn their standard of living.

Funny, I've never heard why it's ok for our country to walk on the backs of the rest of the world, yet the CEOs like Wagoner walking on the backs of their own shareholders isn't ok. I don't see much difference, morally, but I really didn't expect an answer this time, either.

Ultimately buying a car to help this country should just be about buying one with the most US content, as well as being assembled here, IMHO. Ultimately we support the US economy by doing that. Even better if you are close to a plant, like uplander, and can buy a vehicle that's really locally produced.

gagrice · January 2013

Those who run away like cowards should become in effect, marked men.

How about the million or so ex-pats that have moved to Mexico because their SS and retirement would not support them in our inflated society? Or how about the traitors like Piers Morgan that left the UK after being part of a scandal, then becomes a US citizen to protect himself? How many EU rich people migrated here to get away from abusive taxation over there? It is very obvious you do not believe in the right to move where you please. Even though you lament the lack of mobility in our country. HMMMMMM

stever · January 2013

"The dollar's relative weakness against many currencies in recent years has attracted foreign manufacturers, as has the rising quality of American workmanship. Expanding energy production, led by a surge in gas and oil extracted from shale, also is raising U.S. competitiveness, said Jeremy Anwyl, president of online research firm Edmunds.com.

Germany's BMW is a major exporter from the U.S., shipping out just more than 160,000 vehicles, or more than two-thirds of the SUVs assembled at its Spartanburg, S.C., plant to China and other markets.

Toyota Motor Corp. also exports U.S.-built vehicles to markets outside North America, and it is considering exporting components from the U.S., too."

U.S. rising as production base for Honda, other foreign carmakers (Detroit News)

andre1969 · January 2013

Californians flee to Nevada, Arizona, Idaho and Colorado to escape Golden State taxes.

My Mom and stepdad are planning on doing something similar fairly soon: leaving Maryland for Florida. I don't know how taxes fall into the big picture, but I think Florida has no state income tax, and goes easy on retiree benefits. In Maryland, state income tax comes out to around 7.5-8%, depending on what county you live in.

But, I'm not sure how other taxes and costs equate. I'm sure homeowners' insurance costs more in Florida, because of the hurricanes. And, I dunno how sales and property taxes compare.

To a smaller degree, I'm planning on, eventually, bailing on the county I live in, although I could see myself staying in Maryland. Property taxes are high in my county, and so is political corruption. The county piggyback tax (part of the overall state tax) is also a bit higher than one of the counties I'm considering (3.2% versus 2.56%), but that's not a huge deal. On $100K of AGI, that only comes out to about $640 per year.

fintail · January 2013

Walks on the backs of who, exactly? I don't expect an answer to that one. I don't expect an answer about unnamed tax havens, either. Funny how that works. No haughty and hypocritical claims about morals needed. I also find it funny how inheriting the unearned wealth of the worst generation can be seen as a birthright by their devilspawn, but the developed standard worked for by society by a whole by those further in the past is not a birthright for those in the future.

I see the most "US" car as the one that puts the most into US payrolls. For all we know, that could be an Avalon or a Passat.

fintail · January 2013

Are they relocating business and (often questionably "earned") wealth to dodge taxes - unwilling to pay maintenance on what enabled them to exist to begin with, or simply retiring to someplace cheap because they can't afford to live elsewhere? I'd say it's mostly the latter - sounds like why people have moved to the south for decades. Doesn't exactly sound like an apples to apples comparison.

The lack of mobility in the US is socio-economic mobility, which has little to do with being able to physically move, or move to dodge taxes. With rights come responsibilities, and it's not only the welfare queens of society who are shirking said responsibilities.

tlong · January 2013

I see the most "US" car as the one that puts the most into US payrolls. For all we know, that could be an Avalon or a Passat.

So we agree on that.

I do love your adjectives, even though no answers are given - "haughty", "devilspawn", etc. You could become an author of colorful novels!

ateixeira · January 2013

MD taxes are high but we have some of the best public schools in the country, so there is something to show for it, especially Montgomery County, which has the highest county tax in the state.

I hear TN has no state sales tax...but I wouldn't want to live there and I doubt the schools are as good. I guess the tax is you have to listen to country music.

robr2 · January 2013

My Mom and stepdad are planning on doing something similar fairly soon: leaving Maryland for Florida. I don't know how taxes fall into the big picture, but I think Florida has no state income tax, and goes easy on retiree benefits.

Florida does not have an income tax but it's sales tax range from 6-7.5% depending on the municipality and IIRC, they tax everything including clothing. Property taxes are high in Florida as is car insurance. Surprisingly, orange juice is expensive there per my in-laws.

My in-laws moved from MA to FL 20 years ago and are now moving back and they decided to settle in NH which has no income or sales tax. But property taxes are astronomical in NH. Where they are moving from in Florida, the property tax rate is over 15%. Where they are moving to is 2%. Here in MA, I pay 1.2%. Their car insurance for one vehicle in FL is the same as mine for 3 vehicles.

One needs to look at the total cost of living.

ateixeira · January 2013

Even then you have to look at what services you get. Cheap is not good to me if the schools are weak, or crime is high.

marsha7 · January 2013

"I remember someone posting previously, that getting through to some southern workers at the Benz plant that turned out the small SUV that had many issues, a decade or more ago, was so difficult they resorted to pictures in communicating processes and procedures to the employees!"

In a TV interview with Lee Iacocca, when he ran Chrysler (80s, 90s?) he specifically mentioned that his workers were so illiterate that they could not read the signs (or figure it out on their own) not to stick their arms into the hundred-ton presses that stamped steel doors from sheet steel, so they used diagrams with a photo (or diagram) of a person with their arm in the press with the "red slash" thru it, as in "do not do this"...this was Detroit autoworkers...

So you can make fun of southerners and rednecks all you want, they had the same problems up north, long before the automakers came south to avoid the unions...

And, any company that would tolerate 100 absentee days per employee deserves to go out of business...same with the company where that one guy assembled the HVAC correctly, and the other spit on the floorboards...where does one GET sucj stupid ideas that the product should be made like JUNK???

Is THAT the kind of behavior that "Rocky the Union Man" brags about???

lemko · January 2013

Heck, just cross the border into Delaware. I stay in Philly because the property taxes in surrounding counties is psychotic.

robr2 · January 2013

In a TV interview with Lee Iacocca, when he ran Chrysler (80s, 90s?) he specifically mentioned that his workers were so illiterate that they could not read the signs (or figure it out on their own) not to stick their arms into the hundred-ton presses that stamped steel doors from sheet steel, so they used diagrams with a photo (or diagram) of a person with their arm in the press with the "red slash" thru it, as in "do not do this"...this was Detroit autoworkers...

I'm sure OSHA something to do with those signs....

andre1969 · January 2013

MD taxes are high but we have some of the best public schools in the country, so there is something to show for it, especially Montgomery County, which has the highest county tax in the state.

I thought Montgomery and PG county both had the same piggyback...3.2%? How do real estate taxes compare in Montgomery, compared to Prince Georges? That's actually what funds most of the public school budget, and most of the PG county schools are so bad that parents end up putting their kids in private schools.

I don't have kids, so I tend to forget about the quality of schools. But it still affects me, since poor school districts are going to net you poor home prices. Good if you're buying and intend to stay there I guess, but bad when it comes time to sell!

imidazol97 · January 2013

>I hear TN has no state sales tax

I believe it has not state income tax. Instead they levied a rather onerous state, county, local, etc., sales tax scheme a few years back. Different counties and cities piggyback their sales tax, and the tax rates vary with the item purchased. Confusing.

Maybe a Volunteer state resident can set me straight if I've got it wrong.

bpizzuti · January 2013

When you're about to draw money from a 401k, it's important to have a little income tax as you can manage. Then it ends up being free money, and it almost always ends up as more than enough savings to cover the other costs.

stever · January 2013

No income tax but there is a sales tax. Don't know about the property taxes; they were okay when I lived there but that was a $19,000 house back in '74.

My brother is a big reader and lives in one of the burbs. He really got irritated with the Chattanooga library for charging $50 for a library card if you lived in the county. That was especially irritating since the building was funded by the city and county.

I've lived in six states now and it's mostly a wash. Alaska was the cheapest but you paid for it in airline tickets getting the heck out of there. Lots of people in Chattanooga send their kids to private schools because the public ones are underfunded. I don't think I could afford California or NY State though (property taxes there are nuts). Idaho was the best of the lower 48 states we've lived.

Unlike car companies, we've always moved places we wanted to live, and not worried too much about the tax consequences. Although, since I have a portable job, maybe I should sell my place of residence to a state in exchange for some tax breaks. :shades:

marsha7 · January 2013

income tax on EARNED income (salary, wages), but they do, IIRC, have an "intangible tax" on UNEARNED income like dividends and capital gains...so, if you work for a living, if I am correct, you pay no state income tax, similar to Florida, Wyoming, Nevada, Alaska and Texas...but if you are living off your investments ( like Mitt Romney) I think you are subject to an income tax, which they call and intangible tax...feel free to correct me if anyone knows better...

tlong · January 2013

income tax on EARNED income (salary, wages), but they do, IIRC, have an "intangible tax" on UNEARNED income like dividends and capital gains...so, if you work for a living, if I am correct, you pay no state income tax, similar to Florida, Wyoming, Nevada, Alaska and Texas...but if you are living off your investments ( like Mitt Romney) I think you are subject to an income tax, which they call and intangible tax...feel free to correct me if anyone knows better...

Looks like I won't be retiring in Tennessee...

stever · January 2013

Come to Michigan where they just started taxing pensions. Can't really win anywhere.

This would be a good project to undertake up here in the American Car City:

"The city is choking on cars that are under wraps at various locations."

In other words, we've got all kinds of great things to see and do and drive in this town. Let's get more of them out on display in smart, exciting ways that will draw crowds to town -- and not just for auto show or Dream Cruise weeks."

Where's Detroit's world-class auto tourist attraction? (Detroit Free Press)

andres3 · January 2013

Now I'm not saying that I don't shop online. My bigger issue is with people that showroom at brick and mortar stores then shopping online.

All they have to do is match the online prices to those savvy shoppers without making it a huge hassle and inquisition, and that'll settle that.

I bet a lot of showroom shoppers were burned by the poor customer service of that brick and mortar store, and showroom shopping is sweet revenge.

fintail · January 2013

Well, it is hard to count many pensions as "earned income", in more ways than one. :shades:

If I visit Detroit, it would be to view the decomposing prewar housing stock, to see the quality construction and architecture that would be preserved anywhere else sadly returning to the Earth. The place would be well served by some car-themed attractions - it works elsewhere. There'd be little reason to visit Wolfsburg without the VW Autostadt, for example - and other German maker facilities range from impressive to awesome.

isellhondas · January 2013

So, it's OK in your opinion to waste the time and talents of a salesperson who probably works on straight commission so you can shop his price to death using the internet?

" Sweet revenge"?

I guess for people like yourself, PRICE is all that really matters!

tlong · January 2013

If I visit Detroit, it would be to view the decomposing prewar housing stock, to see the quality construction and architecture that would be preserved anywhere else sadly returning to the Earth. The place would be well served by some car-themed attractions - it works elsewhere.

The Detroit airport is seriously nice. That's the only place I've ever been in Michigan. It's one of only two states that I've not visited, as I don't count plane changes as "visiting" a state.

andres3 · January 2013

I don't waste salespeople's time. I draw the line there. I do my own research, usually online. I may pick up the phone and ask a question or 2 if I have to, but I don't waste more than 5 minutes of anyone's time.

Besides, 95% of salespeople seem to know nothing of the product they are selling, and hence, are useless anyway.

I'm talking more about Best Buy and Circuit City (2 companies; 1 bankrupt, one on the verge) as examples.

So the salesperson's talents is usually dubious at best from what I've seen. I bet the average dealerships turnover rate is huge!

andres3 · January 2013

Price is never all that matters. People in general will pay a bit extra for great customer service, but just don't gouge them.

However, if you have terrible customer service, and charge higher prices, you are headed for the way of the DODO bird (are you listening Best Buy?)

You should be getting some value for your money if you are willing to pay more.

I don't see much value in San Diego dealerships telling me I have to pay for their advertising budgets when Los Angeles dealerships don't insist.

robr2 · January 2013

All they have to do is match the online prices to those savvy shoppers without making it a huge hassle and inquisition, and that'll settle that.

In my industry, the brick and mortar stores generally will match online prices. Most showroomers don't even bother to ask the store to match.

The issue with showrooming in my industry is that many folks don't understand that if they buy a $500 faucet for $400 online and there is an issue, it's up to them to deal with the online retailer - who often isn't even authorized by the manufacturer to sell the product - and get the problem resolved. They have a plumber on site who washes his hands of the problem (at $75 an hour), they have to get through to the online customer service which often is e-mail based and then wait for a resolution.

If they bought locally, the dealer would contact the manufacturer directly and get it resolved ASAP.

As I said, if it's a $100 printer - online shop it all you want.

gagrice · January 2013

The issue with showrooming in my industry is that many folks don't understand that if they buy a $500 faucet for $400 online and there is an issue, it's up to them to deal with the online retailer

I have found dealing with Amazon, if you are not buying directly from them, returning an item can cost a lot of money. I bought a defective lounge chair and the 3rd party vendor would not pay return shipping which was $56. I paid it and because I do a lot of business with Amazon they did reimburse my out of pocket expense with an Amazon credit. I am very careful now buying from Amazon 3rd party sellers. Now that Amazon charges CA sales tax that 8% benefit is gone.

dieselone · January 2013

The issue with showrooming in my industry is that many folks don't understand that if they buy a $500 faucet for $400 online and there is an issue, it's up to them to deal with the online retailer - who often isn't even authorized by the manufacturer to sell the product - and get the problem resolved. They have a plumber on site who washes his hands of the problem (at $75 an hour), they have to get through to the online customer service which often is e-mail based and then wait for a resolution.

Good point. That's why I shop online for certain items and go locally for others. If I feel I need or will need service, I expect to pay accordingly and rarely buy online for those types of items.

You really have to watch out on certain items in regards to the warranty. Sometimes the warranty is invalid if purchased through non "authorized dealer" channels.

robr2 · January 2013

Good point. That's why I shop online for certain items and go locally for others. If I feel I need or will need service, I expect to pay accordingly and rarely buy online for those types of items.

I do the same thing. If I need filters for my humidifier, I buy them online. I don't need them today, a two pack is $25 online and I only have to buy them every other year. If I have to buy a $400 chainsaw, I'm shopping locally at the small engine shop.

bob192 · January 2013

the same for appliances and outdoor power equipment. Most dealers wont even work on stuff they didnt sell. Esp. if its one of those big box store brands.

andres3 · January 2013

If they bought locally, the dealer would contact the manufacturer directly and get it resolved ASAP.

Your assuming most local dealers are as customer service oriented as your company. I'm assuming most are not.

When I had an issue with a sofa/love seat furniture set from a local vendor, They were not all that helpful for me with a warranty claim other than providing the option to provide my own shipping to their store (they wouldn't pay to pick it up or return it).

andres3 · January 2013

If they bought locally, the dealer would contact the manufacturer directly and get it resolved ASAP.

If the lounge chair arrived in defective condition, I think you could legitimately say the vendor has not fulfilled the terms of the purchase, as they haven't sent what you ordered. You ordered a brand new undefective lounge chair, not a used/defective/broken lounge chair. I would tell your credit card company they sent a different item than ordered, and back charge them unless they send another. As to the defective chair, tell them they can pick it up or it'll end up on the street if they refuse.

You will win every time. A vendor's obligation for a sale is to deliver the purchased product, and if that's a new product (not used and/or as-is) then it has to be a working new un-defected product.

isellhondas · January 2013

It so happens I was thinking about Best Buy.

Shoppeers want to touch and feel the products they are about to buy and contrary to your opinion, our local Best Buy seems to hire people who know their products well. You throw around numbers like 95% and you are wrong.

So after spending an hour explaining the difference between plasma and lcd televisions and doing a complex demonstration, the "savvy" shopper scours the internet in a desperate effort to save 20.00 and you think that's O.K. to do?

As the brick and morter stores slowly go out of business guess what will happen to on line pricing?

Yes, the average car dealershiops turnover is very high. It's a tough, demanding business and a lot of stores treat their salespeople horribly.

Then they deal with customers who can be very difficult and will cut their throats for 100.00.

I got lucky. I picked a great store to work at and I stayed there over 13 years.

Still, I got very tired of some of the "savvy" shoppers I had to deal with!

ateixeira · January 2013

I think property taxes are about 1% or so of a homes value, but PG county homes cost a bunch less.

The funny thing is all the grocery store circulars say "Montgomery County prices may be higher" so the cost of living is definitely higher.

andres3 · January 2013

So after spending an hour explaining the difference between plasma and lcd televisions and doing a complex demonstration, the "savvy" shopper scours the internet in a desperate effort to save 20.00 and you think that's O.K. to do?

1 hour demonstration? $20 to the best online price? Really? Which Best Buy are you going to? Never have I had even a 15 minute demonstration at Best Buy. It's been a while since I price checked them, but what I remember is 20% differences, not $20. On a 2,000 dollar TV that means $400! Maybe in the last few months they are more competitive price wise, as they woke up and smelled the coffee. I saw something from them recently about matching online prices now. Knowing their customer service in the past, I'd imagine they'd act like a typical insurance company during a claim, when you ask them to match a price. I'm talking Spanish Inquisition and they'll probably make up some excuse anyway to not match the price after wasting 15 minutes of your time. Frankly, they are poorly managed and have atrocious customer service managers. Have they improved in the last few years.... maybe, but the stink of things they did 6-10 years ago remains. They lost trust, so they shouldn't wonder why; when they fail to meet projections with promotions like "we'll match online prices." It's the boy who cried wolf one too many times.

Best Buy was and is the KING of why REBATES are hated today. Rebates were never honored, or forgotten, or paid 12 weeks late even after the 8-12 week waiting period was observed in the fine print. I don't see rebates much anymore, unless they are instant, and that's a good thing, the consumer has revolted on Best Buy's schemes. I'm not sure anyone pushed rebates more than Best Buy did.

Having said all that, I still bought my latest printer and my I-phone 4S from them. They had the best deal on the phone in town, and I needed a replacement printer immediately (couldn't wait for shipping as my current printer died suddenly, and they are nearly 8 miles closer than the nearest Fry's). I generally avoid them, as most all of their stuff is very low Wal-Mart grade and low quality (except the Magnolia sections where the decently good stuff is, but at top dollar "full" retail only).

P.S. For a night and day example to Best Buy, try Crutchfield.com. You can trust them, they have great customer service even though they are an online retailer, but you do have to pay the same as the high Best Buy prices, but at least they have a great website and service; not to mention technical support. They also carry better stuff "brands" than Best Buy generally.

robr2 · January 2013

Your assuming most local dealers are as customer service oriented as your company. I'm assuming most are not.

Successful local dealers tend to be customer service oriented.

BTW - I don't work at the retail level but rather wholesale.

andres3 · January 2013

Successful local dealers tend to be customer service oriented.

I think that goes for any business anywhere in any field. You are either in business to make a buck or two right now, or for the long term. You either want to gouge your customer for a few extra bucks now, or have them as a lifetime customer.

I wonder if the employees of Circuit City saw the end coming years before it happened (chicken and the egg; which comes first)? I have a feeling the companies with the worst customer service know the end is near, or at least coming, and inevitable, so they are particularly bad with customer service.

For most business I've blacklisted (most are out of business and/or were bailed out; twice in the case of Chrysler). I think the employees were actually smarter than they let on; I think they purposely and knowingly were in it for the short-term.

Isellhonda's said:

As the brick and morter stores slowly go out of business guess what will happen to on line pricing?

I don't know... there's a lot of online competition, so I think prices will hold.

Either way, we do need a good brick and mortar store, especially for electronics, the problem is it's not Best Buy. When they close a new better fresher smarter company will emerge.

Just like the USA needs some good car manufacturers, the problem is it's not GM, Ford, or Chrysler.

anythngbutgm · January 2013

Subaru Revs Up U.S. Capacity

By 2014, the capacity for Subaru models will be raised by about 30,000 units. Fuji Heavy is in negotiations to lift the capacity for Camrys to 170,000 as early as fiscal 2016.

ateixeira · January 2013

I'd still like to see them move Camry production out and build Foresters there.

Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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