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Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There has to be a way for those affected to provide feedback. It should be constructive, sure, but they can't just be told to shut or else.
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    uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,107
    Obviously, these folks haven't spent much time in the regular work force.

    Boy, I was thinking the exact same thing from 32 1/2 years of post-college employment and a few years prior to then too!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    There has to be a way for those affected to provide feedback. It should be constructive, sure, but they can't just be told to shut or else.

    That is why they have a Union. The UAW agreed to the work rules. Time to live with it or go look for another job. People have put up with crappy hours and weekends forever. They should be tickled they are getting OT. That is extra money in their pockets. That was the worst part about being a shop steward, was putting up with worthless whiners. Most times they were the very people not carrying their weight on the job.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited March 2013
    Cooley is, well, Cooley

    How about calling VW's head unit an "unmitigated disaster"?

    http://youtu.be/1iGo-FIfoXo

    Give the guy credit, though, he doesn't sugar coat it for his sponsors.

    "Fail. Fail. Fail." :D
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    tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,605
    "Satellite radio for 3 months, then its your problem."

    Classic Cooley review. And it demonstrates once again the honesty in his evaluations. Just try guessing the conclusion before the video ends...

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

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    dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    The alternate reality of the left comes shining through again.
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    tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,605
    Updating this post, I actually went and drove a Civic Si this weekend and wrote up the experience here on the CCBA thread. In case anyone was wondering.

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    A ugly one, they're telling people to park V6 models due to engine fires, 7 cases so far.

    Fortunately only 2500 affected.
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    andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    A recall for a Chrysler is a positive thing. At least they are admitting something is wrong.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Here's a source for the rest of the story:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/17/2013-dodge-challenger-v6-recalled-for-electri- cal-fire-riskmodels-f/
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    busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Maybe its just me, but having a Challenger with just a V-6 seems a bit weird...
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Makes as much sense as those folks who purchased an Impala SS with the inline six back in the 1960s.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,687
    Maybe its just me, but having a Challenger with just a V-6 seems a bit weird...

    It does, but apparently they're no slouch. I just looked up some numbers from here: http://www.zeroto60times.com/Dodge-0-60-mph-Times.html

    Looks like a Challenger with the 3.6 V-6 is good for 0-60 in about 6.3 seconds. Even the Charger SXT is good for 6.5, and in the little Avenger, they're showing 6.2.

    Of course, a Hemi's gonna be faster. But, any of those three listed above would be quicker than any car I've ever owned. I think my 2000 Park Ave is good for 0-60 in around 7.5 seconds. Dunno what my Ram would be. There are so many configurations that can change the weight by a significant amount, different axle ratios (mine ha s 3.21, but I think a lot of them have a 3.55). That site I posted above lists a 2013 Ram Hemi at 0-60 in 6.0 seconds. I don't think it's that fast though.

    Hate to say it though, but if I bought a Challenger, I'd probably succumb to peer pressure and get the Hemi. Don't wanna be typecast driving a chick car! :shades:
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    dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Looks like a Challenger with the 3.6 V-6 is good for 0-60 in about 6.3 seconds. Even the Charger SXT is good for 6.5, and in the little Avenger, they're showing 6.2.

    That's significantly quicker than the much heralded mid 90's Impala SS. I doubt a 427 Impala SS could match a current v6 Challenger.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe they recalled the V6s to put Hemis in them. ;)

    Sounds like they're plenty quick, but I'd want the Hemi for the sound.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,687
    Sounds like they're plenty quick, but I'd want the Hemi for the sound.

    I'd be happy with the 3.6 V-6 in something like a Charger, which I would view as an every day sedan. Still quick enough for most needs, but fairly easy on the fuel bill.

    but, to me, something like a Challenger is more of a toy, an extravagance. Something to treat yourself to that hopefully eases midlife crisis. So in that case, you might as well go all the way!

    Strangely though, some of these new, high-powered engines really don't sound all that great to me. I don't think there's anything special about the sound of the Hemi in my Ram. One of our IT guys has a V-8 Camaro convertible. Brutally fast I'm sure, but it just doesn't sound all that hot. And, one day, I even heard a fairly new Corvette start up, and it even sounded a bit underwhelming.

    I think the problem is that they're too sophisticated these days, and the sound is more tame, more faked, somehow. So even if the performance is there, the sound just seems lacking. Either that, or I just got too accustomed to the sound of a 360 with no muffler. :blush:
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    To be honest I like the sound of the Mustang V8 the most, out of the 3.
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    dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited March 2013
    Yeah, the Mustang sounds sweet, and that goes for all of the v8 versions.

    Last year at the Chicago autoshow, Ford had a 2011 Mustang GT500 strapped to a dyno. Wow, it made the hairs on my neck stand up it sounded so good. For whatever reason, Ford has done a great job on the Mustang's sound track going all the way back to '85 or so.

    My buddy with the Tundra has a dealer installed TRD dual exhaust and it sounds pretty good. But honestly it's almost to loud.
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    busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I dunno....

    Seems like marrying the prettiest girl in town, then sleeping in separate beds at night...

    It just doesn't seem natural to me, but I guess if you really want that model, and that's what's in your price range, its a logical choice...

    But, I do agree that the 6-cylinder of today is a far cry from the 6-cylinder I had in my 1969 4-door Chevy Nova... By just about any standard...
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    toomanyfumestoomanyfumes Member Posts: 1,019
    I bought a new Mustang last year, and originally was going to get tha GT. I ende with the six, though. It was around eight grand cheaper, I get 23 MPG in daily driving, and it's still plenty quick with 305 HP and six-speed manual.

    I do miss the sound and low end torque of a V-8, though. A co-worker got an aftermarket exhaust on his GT, sounds great at idle, but he said the sound gets tiring on the freeway.
    2012 Mustang Premium, 2013 Lincoln MKX Elite, 2007 Mitsubishi Outlander.
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    marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    a problem with a V6...if the V6 now has 300-plus HP, more than many V8's of the last few decades, why not get the better gas mileage???

    If I bought a new 300, I would get the V6...who wants a 14 mpg Hemi with gas at this price???

    I already have one in my 2004 Ram pickup...one Hemi sucking gas is enough, thank you... :cry:
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,687
    I already have one in my 2004 Ram pickup...one Hemi sucking gas is enough, thank you...

    I didn't realize you still had a Ram, Bob...I thought you were Chrysler-free by now. Other than being a bit piggy with the fuel bill, has it been okay otherwise?

    I bought a 2012 Ram Hemi about 6 months ago. It's rated at 14/20, which doesn't sound too bad for something that big. And, I actually did hit 20 mpg once, on a trip. But, in local driving, I've seen as bad as 12-13 mpg.
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    marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    Yes, I have my 2004 Crown Vic (just passed 200K miles) and my wife has her 2004 Ram 1500 (83K miles)...it has had its issues, luckily covered under the 7 year/85K mile extended warranty...

    It has needed a new radiator, right front and rear calipers along with bearings and rotors, radio/CD player, drivers seatbelt, to name a few...

    When we bought it, we expected my wife to put on about 8K miles yearly, and she is close to that...so, expecting the truck to last at least 120K miles, that would be about 15 years...this was a truck she would drive until the wheels fell off, so, if it lasts 150K miles, we are talking about keeping the truck forever...still in great shape (she had a wreck 6 months ago, about $2500 worth of body damage, no frame damage, fixed perfectly)...

    Gets 12-13 in city, if she drives to Mississippi, gets about 19 mpg on highway...considering they are advertising 22 mpg now with a Hemi, it certainly is not worth 30 grand to get another 3 mpg, when this truck has something magical about it...IT IS PAID FOR!!!!!!!

    Interior is perfect, bed has a few scratches from carrying a rototiller...the HORROR!!!...

    Goodyear tires only went about 30K miles, highly dissatisfied...Edmund's "tires, tires, tires" topic recommended Michelin tires with 70K expected, some folks writing they got over 80K miles on theirs, so I bought those...smoother riding than the Goodyears (I am a fan of Goodyear whenever possible) and we will see how long they last...

    Despite being made by the UAW (I had to fit that in, don't you know?) my two Big 3 vehicles have done well, both still humming after 9 years (2004-2013) and expected to go further...

    Oh, my fuel pump just died in my Crown Vic...electric, mounted on TOP of the gas tank, so tank must be dropped to replace it...$692.00 later, I have a sparkling new fuel pump...I thought fuel pumps mounted to to block, had a lever to engage the camshaft, and cost $25 to buy and 3 minutes of labor to install... :cry::cry::cry: ...seems like technology has changed...

    Next thing you know, they will try and tell me that spark plugs have platinum in them and last 100K miles...HA!!!... :P ;)
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,687
    Despite being made by the UAW (I had to fit that in, don't you know?) my two Big 3 vehicles have done well, both still humming after 9 years (2004-2013) and expected to go further...

    Well, my Ram was made in Mexico, so maybe there's hope for it yet! :P

    Goodyear tires only went about 30K miles, highly dissatisfied

    Now that I think back on it, my old 2000 Intrepid had Goodyear tires. Eagle GA's, I think. I had 'em worn down to practically racing slicks by around 30,000 miles. I'm not sure what's on my new Ram. I'll have to check.

    At the rate I've been going though, it could very well be 6-7 years before I even hit 30,000 miles. It was 6 months ago on Saturday that I bought it, and it only has something like 2070 miles on it. I've thought about trading it, right around the 5 year mark, because that's when the powertrain warranty is up. And, it should have enough value that it would make a nice down payment on a new vehicle, so I could get back into something with a full warranty for a monthly payment that's not too hideous.

    But, we'll see when we get there. As you said, "paid off" is a very nice thing!
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    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    ...and there is a good chance the Crown Vic was made in Canada by the CAW.
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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    I know Bob will appreciate that I bought my first UAW car in quite some time - a 2004 Mazda 6 wagon. Has the UAW sticker on a side window.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    Yes, I am sitting here right now, as we speak, in deep appreciation...:):):)
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    roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,362
    The Abarth has a UAW assembled engine- which gives me pause... :P

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

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    busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I saw my first Buick Encore "up close and personal" yesterday in a parking lot.

    The thing that struck me the most about the vehicle was just how small it looked on the outside.

    Not a bad looking ride, but perhaps its the height, coupled with sort of a "boxy" design, that gives me the impression of a vehicle that looks shorter than it probably is...
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,687
    I saw the Encore at the DC auto show, and wasn't all that impressed overall. Now, it did have a very nice interior; I'll give it that much. But, as my friend put it, it seemed like some leftover foreign design that GM had inherited, didn't know what to do with it, so they were like "Hey, let's market it as a Buick!"

    To me, it just doesn't seem to be what a Buick "should" be. Maybe a Chevy though, since they really need a small SUV, something smaller than the Equinox.
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    robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited March 2013
    But, as my friend put it, it seemed like some leftover foreign design that GM had inherited, didn't know what to do with it, so they were like "Hey, let's market it as a Buick!"

    But of course it isn't - it's also sold as the Opel and Vauxhall Mokka and it's the basis of the Chevy Traxx.
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    busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    It does seem (at least, to me) like a viable successor to the Chevrolet Tracker, in a Chevy-branded vehicle. I'm not sure how many Buick buyers will be all that crazy about buying a Korean-made Buick.

    Of course, its aimed at younger car buyers, and they may not care about where its made as much as it being a Buick, a traditionally "old person's" car...
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    tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,605
    edited March 2013
    They had one at the SF auto show a few months back. My wife saw it and said "Ooh, that's cute. What is it? I like it." I think that sums up the business case pretty succinctly. She's a 32YO professional, which is where Buick would like to go, I imagine.

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

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    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    To me, it just doesn't seem to be what a Buick "should" be. Maybe a Chevy though, since they really need a small SUV, something smaller than the Equinox.

    One of GM's problems has been that they never seem to know the difference between their divisions, or where they "should" be, IMHO.
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    robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    One of GM's problems has been that they never seem to know the difference between their divisions, or where they "should" be, IMHO.

    On a positive note, the old GM would've sold this car as a Chevy, Pontiac, Saturn and Saab as well. At least today, it's doing duty only as a Buick here in the US.
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    toomanyfumestoomanyfumes Member Posts: 1,019
    I saw the Buick Encore at the Chicago auto show. Actually, saw it spin round and round on a turntable while a spokesmodel pitched it, and Buick had a chef there feeding us and giving a cooking demonstration. It is a tall, short car, they really pushed the lane change and front warning systems, the fold down front passenger seat, and they were pitching lease deals.
    2012 Mustang Premium, 2013 Lincoln MKX Elite, 2007 Mitsubishi Outlander.
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    busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited March 2013
    On a positive note, the old GM would've sold this car as a Chevy, Pontiac, Saturn and Saab as well. At least today, it's doing duty only as a Buick here in the US.

    You make an excellent point. The old GM couldn't decide how to selectively market niche-style vehicles in many cases, so it simply sold them under every brand..shotgun approach.... Cheapening the appeal.

    Still, IMO, its going to be a bit of an uphill battle trying to sell a Korean-made Buick to many in the target market (youthful buyers). There isn't any compelling reason to buy it over competing foreign makes, and the age group being targeted doesn't have the USA brand loyalty that older Buick owners have (as a % share of the Buick market). That age group has never known the US auto market when imported cars weren't the norm.

    Again, IMO, a Chevrolet brand would make more sense, as I understand the Encore doesn't have certain features normally associated with LUX models. from what I've read, the Encore has power front seats where only the bottom is powered, and the seat back is manually adjustable, no push-button start or power lift gate.
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    scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399
    It may be an uphill battle, but then most people won't even know it is built in Korea, and for some that will be a plus instead of a minus ( maybe even those in the target market who don't buy American?). In any case it should be interesting to see how it does. Of course up here we get the Chevy Traxx as well ( or maybe instead haven't really looked), though it doesn't have the " lux" I can agree it probably makes more sense as a Chevy, but I do think the Buick version looks more appealing, and more suited for the potential target market ( youngish professionals).
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    busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    most people won't even know it is built in Korea

    It's always hard to predict how people will react, but if they look at the window sticker the country of "most parts" will be fairly evident.

    I wonder how many Aveo buyers knew it was Korean built?
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    scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399
    I have a feeling very few knew or cared, I don't think most people even look at the window sticker to see where a car is assembled, they see a car they like, find out what it drives like and how much it is the way they want it equipped and buy it if they can, I am not sure that where it is assembled comes into the average buyers purchase decision, that may be different for traditional Buick buyers, but this isn't aimed at them ( and really it is a bold move by GM to sell it as a Buick in the states, it will be interesting to see how it works out).
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    uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,107
    I wonder how many Aveo buyers knew it was Korean built

    I don't recall that being much of a secret...I was thinking it was marketed as a 'captive import'.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
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    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I saw a white Encore pulling into a parking structure today. That was interesting because I think white shows flaws. After watching it a bit, my conclusion was "meh" - not as ugly as I thought, but certainly not a looker. I still don't think it fits the image of an upscale Buick though.
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    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I saw a white Encore pulling into a parking structure today. That was interesting because I think white shows flaws. After watching it a bit, my conclusion was "meh" - not as ugly as I thought, but certainly not a looker. I still don't think it fits the image of an upscale Buick though.

    I don't like big vehicles in general, but I do like nice interiors. This actually looks pretty interesting to me. I probably wouldn't buy one, but it may be worth a trip to the dealer to take a look. And that's the first time I've ever said that about a Buick. :surprise:
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    busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/03/26/cadillac-cts-ats-auto-show-n- ew-york-bmw-audi/2013683/

    The 2014 CTS, one of the New York show stars, should be the next big step for the venerable brand in its move toward global credibility on the same level as BMW, Audi, Mercedes-Benz rivals. But if past is prologue, it'll be another small step toward weaning Cadillac from less-wealthy car buyers with graveyard demographics.

    "The brand hasn't done a 180. It still appeals to older buyers, and has a ways to go," says Jessica Caldwell, industry analyst at auto researcher Edmunds.com.
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    anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited March 2013
    has a ways to go...

    I don't think this status will ever change, notice how the German makes or Lexus never even mention them in their ads? Heck, even Infiniti and Acura ignore their existence...

    Cadillac IMO (and I'm not alone in this) is (and probably will always be) a brand for diehard "Buy Murican" types who want something a bit more special than a Buick. And as mentioned above, their clientelle has in my years been, um...

    Older...

    And regarding the new CTS? Other than the sharp looking nose it's a big ol' bowl of Meh. Such a sharp and edgy snout (like the ATS) yet the back looks soft, like it was inspired by the Deville. Polar opposites IMO. I really wonder what a "V" versions is going to look like, or heck even a coupe?

    Even the last one when it was revealed was nothing much of a standout. Heck I remember they parked one in the dead heart of one of the richest, upper class towns in Masachusetts and it got about as much attention as a Cavalier, it just looked to much like the first Gen.
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...I think the new CTS looks AWESOME and I'm hardly ready for the cemetary!
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    dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    The new CTS does look pretty good overall. I'm still warming up to the LED DRL's that seem to run 1/3 of the front fenders, but that seems to be the trend these days.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Cadillac IMO (and I'm not alone in this) is (and probably will always be) a brand for diehard "Buy Murican" types who want something a bit more special than a Buick.

    Caddies seem to appeal to retired Navy and Marines around here. Caddies are rather a rare breed in San Diego, except the Escalade. The Caddy sedans I see invariably have half a dozen bumper sticker proclaiming allegiance to their branch of the Military.
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    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    The new CTS does look pretty good overall. I'm still warming up to the LED DRL's that seem to run 1/3 of the front fenders, but that seems to be the trend these days.

    It's those kinds of features that make a car look really dated 10 or so years later, IMHO.

    Remember Opera windows? Vinyl tops? Etc. Now we will be able to add LED eyebrows to the list.
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    busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-03-28/gm-seeks-to-save-200-million-by-incr- easing-resale-values


    General Motors Co. (GM), seeking to boost its profit margins, says it can save as much as $200 million annually by improving resale values of its vehicles and further narrowing the gap with competitors who don’t have to spend as much to offer lease deals.
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