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Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,894
    Useless trivia - union made in Lafayette, Indiana.

    For what it is worth Subaru Forester is selling well. I have seen two new ones and they are decent looking vehicles. If they bring it in a diesel with a real Auto transmission I would buy one as a daily runabout. As well as trips to the desert. The Forester could pass up the Outback as top of the line seller.

    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/subaru-reports-march-2013-sales-as-best-- sales-month-in-company-history-201067151.html
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,359
    Caddy and Buick lead the way last month...

    Not in the number of vehicles sold, however. Chevrolet is still paying the price for it's mediocre Malibu, and Lincoln is sinking fast. How long will it take the suits at Lincoln to realize that no one in their right mind will pay a substantial premium for what is merely a gussied-up Ford?

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,744
    Event the weak players will do ok in a growing economy. The real test will be during the next downturn, which probably happens in the next 5 years. Then we will see how strong the big old trees really are - will they topple again in a new storm?
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,145
    Geeze, if this is a growing economy, I'd certainly would hate to see a bad one! It might be growing for the big shots on Wall Street, but for everybody else...eh...not so much. :sick:
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,894
    Geeze, if this is a growing economy, I'd certainly would hate to see a bad one! It might be growing for the big shots on Wall Street, but for everybody else...eh...not so much.

    You said it right. I look around me in CA and people living in tents like never in my 70 years. The only jobs that come up are entry level with 3000 applicants for every job. I don't know what to call this bubble as it has so many heads. Welfare bubble, subprime auto loan bubble, low interest housing bubble, all subsidized with borrowed Chinese money. Not even close to sustainable. Those with good jobs, mostly in the public sector can afford new cars. I hear of new layoffs in the private sector every day here in California. Average person out of work 40 weeks.

    Tent cities
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,175
    edited April 2013
    Leaf posting ginormous gains for March.

    GM has reacted to this by offering 2000 bucks cash and 0% for 60 months.

    Heck, there are still brand new 2012's AND 2011! models still on the lots so there are probably even better deals to be had there.

    link title
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,894
    edited April 2013
    They cannot sell the 2011 Volt in CA as they do not get HOV privileges. Only certain models from 2012 on are clean enough for California. Where everything is perfect. :sick:

    The Leaf at lower cost and made in America seems more practical for a specific demographic. If your commute fits easily into the Leaf range it makes a lot of sense.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    They cannot sell the 2011 Volt in CA as they do not get HOV privileges. Only certain models from 2012 on are clean enough for California.

    Electric, partial electric cars like Volt not as clean as we might think. In terms of impact on environment. Have been hearing, not on internet, that Volt not as clean "overall" as would be a very high mpg small compact with regular internal combustion engine. Don't hear details, but would guess that the "total" environmental impact of the Volt was measured somehow. From manufacturing to being recharged by some algorithm of electric generating plants (coal, gas, nuclear, hydro) to the ultimate disposal of its large battery pack.

    Also, how practical, reliable is the Volt in our coldest climates? Does GM sell any Volts in our coldest States such as WISC, MINN, ND, MONT, Alaska, etc?
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,561
    It'll trickle down eventually, right? :shades: :sick:
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,894
    Electric, partial electric cars like Volt not as clean as we might think. In terms of impact on environment.

    That has been the argument against hybrids from the start. Toyota did a life cycle analysis and it takes over 100k miles and 10 years to mitigate the pollution in manufacturing a hybrid. It is NOT just the batteries that are polluting. The electric motors are made with REE resources that are heavily polluting in China. Now the Australians are processing REEs in Malaysia that is potentially devastating to that area. The USA and Australia will not allow the processing of most REEs in our countries. It is a case of out of sight out of mind. Most alternative so called green energy is highly polluting in manufacturing as well.

    http://e360.yale.edu/feature/boom_in_mining_rare_earths_poses_mounting_toxic_ris- ks/2614/
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,175
    IIRC, the Volt didn't even qualify as a Partial Zero Emmisions Vehicle when it came out which is laughable... Then there was the gas mileage, what 33mpg highway? Same as a Toyota Corolla?

    Now the landscape has grown even more since both the Leaf and the Chev came out with additions like the Honda Fit EV, Ford Focus EV, RAV4 EV, and soon to be BMW "i" line so the future of the Nissan is uncertain. If sales next month are close to this month then may finaly be a success story.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    unless YOU happen to be one of the 59 owners and the wheel actually detaches while driving

    Yeah, that would kinda suck! LOL
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Subaru seems to do no wrong lately.

    Hard to believe it was their best March ever, they've had I don't know many years in a row of growth, even straight through the recession.

    Kia doesn't have much new product out now, so I'm not surprised they dropped a tad.

    Hyundai is a bit of a surprise given the new Santa Fe models are out.

    The ATS is selling well for Caddy. Buick has the Encore and Verano helping them.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Chrysler Group LLC Reports March 2013 U.S. Sales Increased 5 Percent; Best Sales Month Since December 2007

    http://media.chrysler.com/newsrelease.do;jsessionid=8F42B8355AB048DAF9D6EA9D42F9- 7AEC?&id=14064&mid=2

    Up 5%. Overall market was up 3%.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Fusion, Escape Achieve All-Time Record Sales; Ford Motor Company U.S. Sales Up 6 Percent in March

    http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=37868

    New models doing well. A case of build it and they will come?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    GM Reports Best March Sales in Five Years
    Cadillac sales up almost 50 percent on new models


    http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/201- 3/Apr/gmsales.html

    All 3 Lambdas absolutely whopped asphalt. Impressive given their age and only a minor face lift.

    Encore helped Buick so it seems like crossovers are what's helping GM, car sales were actually down.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited April 2013
    Car March 2013 March 2012 Year-to-Date
    1. Nissan Altima 37,763 41,050 86,952
    2. Toyota Camry 37,663 42,567 100,830
    3. Honda Accord 36,504 26,771 88,427
    4. Ford Fusion 30,284 28,562 80,558
    5. Chevrolet Malibu 18,539 23,887 49,179
    5. Hyundai Sonata 18,031 23,281 47,285
    6. Chrysler 200 16,593 14,914 36,885
    7. Kia Optima 14,366 15,008 38,813
    8. Dodge Avenger 12,439 9362 32,047
    9. Volkswagen Passat 9521 10,032 25,909
    10. Mazda6 6102 7855 10,951

    Altima is on a roll, though prices are lower than Accord/Camry so I'm sure that has helped.

    The drop from 4th to 5th is steep. GM will hopefully make it up with strong Impala sales. I'll see if I can find the break down for that segment.

    If you combine Sonata/Optima and 200/Avenger they actually do well.

    Mazda6 sales should start picking up as the new model trickles in. I'm very surprised they're down for March. Supply issues? That's bizarre.

    EDIT: Altima number includes the old coupe, so actually Camry was the best selling sedan. Sorry haters. LOL
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    Malibu down, March 2013 vs March 2012, 18539 vs 23887. Could GM be thinking they made a mistake with new Malibu design? Smaller back seat, no V6? They probably could have more sales if they just stood pat. Keep the old design. Styling wise it was pretty decent. Better reviews on the old model than on the current one.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Don't ask me how he gets this info and don't shoot the messenger if you don't like how they're categorized, but here goes:

    Verano 3,564 +42.7%
    ILX 2,059; hybrid 145
    CT 1,062 -50.5%
    A3 120 -81%

    Buick POWNS the segment.

    Regal 1,605 -38.5%
    TSX 1,492 -53.9%; wagon 203 -40%
    1series 594 -44.3%

    Buick again. No wonder they're sales are way up.

    3series 8,858 -10.5%
    Cclass 8,396 +32.4%
    ES 6,798 +124.4%
    Gsedan 4,530 -3.5%
    LaCrosse 4,157 -1.9%
    A4 3,951 +20%
    ATS 3,587
    TL 3,080 +9.3%
    CTS 2,791 -37.8%
    MKZ 2,360 -19.5%
    IS 2,255 -13.9%

    Lots of movement in this important class. ATS has work to do.

    5series 5,306 -2.7%
    Eclass 4,009 -28%
    XTS 3,061
    GS 1,882 -23.7%
    A6 1,746 +18.1%
    MKS 925 -45.3%
    M 641 -32.5%
    RLX 336
    RL 8 -78.2%

    Let's see if the RLX can ramp up, I don't think so at the asking prices.

    Sclass 1,216 +24%
    7series 1,046 -18.3%
    LS 980 +77.4%
    A8 563 +34.7%

    Sweet lease deal on S class maybe?

    RX 9,072 +33.3%
    SRX 4,368 +5.4%
    RDX 3,875 +299.1%
    Q5 3,099 +39.3%
    X3 3,031 +42%
    GLK 2,694 +11.2%
    FX 968 -2.1%
    EX 146 -61.4%

    Wow, Lexus owns this segment. No contest. More than Double #2.

    Enclave 5,676 +55.1%
    X5 3,876 +36.4%
    Mclass 3,501 -14%
    MDX 3,207 -11.4%
    JX 2,633 +387.6%
    MKX 2,354 -9.8%
    Q7 1,092 +52.5%
    GX 770 -15.1%

    Lamba rules. Buick dominates a 3rd segment.

    X6 410 +64.7%
    ZDX 43 -49.3%

    Why bother?

    Encore 3,003

    New segment, I guess.

    500 3,807 +3%
    Spark 3,538
    Cooper 2,750 -2.4%
    iQ 383 -69.1%

    Versa 15,917 +2.1%
    Sonic 6,907 -16.3%
    Fiesta 6,728 +3.5%
    Accent 5,669
    Fit 4,602 +4.7%; EV 23
    Rio 4,009
    Yaris 2,393 -30%
    Mazda2 925 -39.7%

    Prices rules here. So many reviews say that's the worst car yet it sells the most!

    Corolla 31,423 +15.2%
    Civic 27,665; hybrid 572 -34.5%
    Elantra 26,153
    Focus 24,929 -11.9%
    Cruze 23,260 +7.7%
    Jetta 15,005 -.6%
    Sentra 13,965 -.9%
    Mazda3 10,505 -20.6%
    Dart 8,091
    Forte 5,932
    Impreza 5,327 -37.7%
    Golf 2,854 -21.4%

    Hard to believe such an old design leads. Civic refresh looks good, and sales plunge? Are prices higher or what? Weird.

    Altima 37,763 -8%
    Camry 37,663 -8.2%
    Accord 36,504 +41.4%; PHEV 26
    Fusion 30,284 +6%
    Malibu 18,539 -22.4%
    Sonata 18,031
    200 16,593 +11%
    Optima 14,366
    Avenger 12,439 +33%
    Passat 9,521 -5.1%
    Mazda6 6,102 -22.3%
    Legacy 4,400 -18.3%

    No one wants the PHEV Accord because it's the ugly version.

    Impala 14,766 -22.4%
    Charger 9,386 -3%
    Taurus 7,003 -1.3%
    Avalon 6,982 +117.2%
    Maxima 6,088 -11.7%
    300 5,686 -22%
    Azera 1,117

    As suspected the Impala leads, but sales dropped. I think it's the higher prices, and also fewer fleet sales. Avalon sales surged with the re-do.

    Prius 22,140 -20%
    LEAF 2,236 +286.2%
    Volt 1,478 -35.4%
    C-MAX 768
    Insight 454 -54.4%
    CR-Z 451 -12.7%

    Leaf had its best month ever with the price drop. Ford should put some actual cushioning on the rear seat to sell more C-Maxes. My family ran away from it.

    Camaro 8,102 -12.8%
    Mustang 7,688 -15%
    Challenger 6,132 +42%
    FR-S 1,828
    Genesis coupe 1,042 -19.8%
    BRZ 905
    370z 669 -38.9%

    Tight race for the muscle cars. The Z is ancient, when does that get replaced?

    Soul 12,080
    xB 1,778 -10.2%
    Cube 793 -14.6%

    Funny that the Soul leads by so much yet it's the next to be updated.

    Juke 3,916 -6%
    Veloster 2,693

    Oddball segment, yet both sell in bunches.

    Outback 10,453 -3.4%
    Venza 3,965 +17.4%
    CrossTour 1,522 +15.9%

    No contest.

    Escape 28,934 +27.6%
    CR-V 26,897 -9.6%
    Equinox 20,997 +4.7%
    Rav4 16,474 -1.6%
    Rogue 15,381 -9.4%
    Forester 9,050 +46.2%
    Patriot 7,420 +8%
    Journey 7,283 -5%
    CX-5 7,116 +96.1%
    SantaFe 7,116 (5 & 7 passenger versions)
    Compass 5,111 +28%
    XV CrossTrek 4,688
    Tucson 4,073
    Tiguan 3,304 +24.3%
    Sportage 2,680

    Very interesting (and important) segment. I bet Ford's happy to be on top with the new design. Separating C-Max didn't hurt it, either (the hybrid used to be the Escape hybrid). RAV4 and CR-V slowing already?

    New Forester is on fire, probably stealing sales from those two. Crosstrek didn't hurt the Forester one bit.

    Told ya CX5 needed more power. Wow, sales almost doubled!

    Explorer 17,509 +32.5%
    Grand Cherokee 12,639 -10%
    Edge 12,237 -13%
    HighLander 11,287 +6.9%
    Pilot 11,207 +15.1%
    Traverse 10,944 +54.5%
    Sorento 10,005
    SantaFe 7,116 (5 & 7 passenger versions)
    Durango 5,441 +19%
    Murano 4,870 -21.5%
    CX-9 4,281 +123.8%
    Toureg 726 -2.9%
    Tribeca 151 -17.5%

    Ford again, 1 and 3. That's a lot of Jeeps, too, did it get the 8EAT already? People seem to like the CX9 face lift. Tribeca hasn't changed since 2008, here's Subaru's big miss.

    Sienna 12,062 +22.2%
    Town & Country 11,626 -7%
    Caravan 11,110 -19%
    Odyssey 10,923 +1.2%
    Mazda5 2,526 +101.1%
    Flex 2,167 -34.9%
    Quest 1,345 -48.2%
    Sedona 54
    Routan 39 -93.4%

    Sienna leads but really Caravan+T&C own this segment. Wonder if the vacuum cleaner on the Ody will help pick up sales? The new van sucks (literally). :shades:
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,561
    Definitely good deals on the S (sales will explode when the new one hits, too). 2013 E has been out of production for a couple months - some stocks are declining (my local dealer hasn't had a diesel for a month) and people are waiting for the new one. Shocks me that GS is falling already.

    Corolla sells based on name equity, people will buy anything with the model name on it (and it is durable and not-intimidating for the new or timid).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    New ES has to be hurting the GS. They even look alike.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,561
    I wonder if that is doing it. Might be a very similar feeling car for 30%++ less.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    We compare segment, but shoppers walk in to a showroom and compare the cars that are right next to each other.

    The new LS also launched, so the GS is sandwiched between 2 fresher designes, even though it's still new.

    If I were a product planner I would launch new models in price ascending order. Entice people to move up, not down.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Corolla sells based on name equity, people will buy anything with the model name on it (and it is durable and not-intimidating for the new or timid).

    That's exactly how Toyota markets it... Using descriptors such as

    Durable
    Economical
    Reliable
    Functional
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Cheap, too. I've seen then in the $15s. A decade later you'll still probably get almost half of that back. It's ridiculous.

    You won't enjoy it much, I'm guessing, but it's pretty good and not being bad at anything.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Cheap, too. I've seen then in the $15s. A decade later you'll still probably get almost half of that back. It's ridiculous.

    You won't enjoy it much, I'm guessing, but it's pretty good and not being bad at anything.


    As my dad used to say... "A bad ride ALWAYS beats a good walk".
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,561
    And maybe arrange the showrooms differently, too.

    What new LS? All I see is an Exnerized facelift. It's structurally the same car that we've had since 07.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,561
    The "DERF" - has a ring to it.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,902
    I thought the Corolla looked really nice when they updated it for 2008. But I wasn't so crazy about the 2011 refresh.

    My uncle still has his '03 Corolla, which is coming up on 11 years old as of Memorial Day weekend. It's looking pretty beat up, but that's his fault, not the car's.

    There are definitely better cars out there than a Corolla, but once you factor in the price and reputation, it still has a lot going for it. The only thing I really, truly hate about my uncle's Corolla is the seating position. If you have really long arms and really short legs, it's perfect. But for me, with the seat all the way back, it seems like the steering wheel's actually too far away to comfortably reach, but legroom is so skimpy that I almost feel like my feet are tucked up under me. Steering column is way too low, as well, even when adjusted all the way up.

    The new Corollas that I've sat in seem to have a better seating position. They're still no denying the fact that it's a small car, but it's at least more tolerable.

    Fuel economy is something like 26/34 for the 1.8/automatic, which is essentially unchanged since 2003 (30/38 under the old ratings), and the automatic is a 4-speed. But still, it's cheap, reliable, durable, probably cheap to fix when it does break. And, once you get into high-economy models like this, 26/34 isn't going to cost a whole lot more than 28/38 or whatever the class average is these days.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    I bought my daughter a new 2004 Corolla for her to use commuting back and forth to college.

    From a DIY maintenance POV, it would be extremely difficult to design a more "mechanic friendly" car. Lots of engine compartment space, and the easiest oil filter change location I've ever seen on a FWD car.

    IMO, it was a very successful design in that regard, and that's probably 1 reason it hasn't changed very much over the years. Toyota found a setup that worked well, it was well received by the buying public, so Toyota decided not to tamper too much with success.

    Steady, year to year sales will trump peak and valley sales spikes every time.
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