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Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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Comments

  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    It is obvious you don't like diesels and that is fine.

    You're missing the point completely. I'm just stating what has been my personal experience renting diesel F250s and that's all I'm stating. I have no personal preference when it comes to diesel but I'm sure you would agree that 9 mpg empty won't be saving me much over a gasser. Being rentals who knows what those trucks have been through and there is a sign in the cab stating only one type of diesel should be used and not the type made from recycled cooking oil.

    You have us beat on the price of RUG. But we blow you away with our current $.37 kWh.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You must be in Hawaii. That is the only place with higher electric than CA.

    The only vehicle I ever owned that got 9 MPG was a Ford F250 with 460 gas engine. And it nearly killed us back the the late 1970s when gas got up around $1.50 a gallon in MN.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399
    I suspected your previous experience with your last GM would be the reason you wouldn't want one. To be fair the new truck is already I. The world market and from what I have read is a good competitor to the Toyota and the Ranger ( the Toyota from what I have read is considered quite out of date in most of the world, even if it is still considered the safe indestructible bet), the truck that gets the most praise actually seems to be the VW amorak ( don't think that is quite the correct name). It seems to be winning the comparison tests I have read, the ford is usually second, the rest somewhere further down. That said I understand your reasoning, just hopefully the new Colorado sells well enough ( especially in Diesel Trim) to make some of those other competitors start offering their trucks in North America as well, choice is always a good thing after all.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I got all excited about the VW Amarok when it was shown somewhere. I thought it was a concept vehicle. Very cool, not sure if it is a practical PU truck. The Chicken tax is still in effect which may keep the cheaper small PU trucks out of the market. Got to protect the domestics money makers.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    > it had the same type of chassis shudder over bumps that a new 2011 CRV had when I demo'd it. Imagine every little bump having 2 or 3 extra concussion bumbs after.

    Whoa. Another flaw in the perfect image of some foreign brands. After bump reverb shake.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • scwmcanscwmcan Member Posts: 399
    Yes I think it wins when it is considered as a lifestyle pick-up ( compared against four door pick-ups of the same basic size). I think it is as practical as any of the other same sized pick-ups. Of course it doesn't offer a two door bench seat option with a bigger box as far as I know so that probably does limit it's appeal to a smaller segment of the market. As for the chicken tax it does seem that it may be going away sometime in the near future ( though of course that it subject to any number of things going wrong) as even the "domestic" manufactures want it gone ( of course the UAW probably wants it to stay).
  • tkfitz1tkfitz1 Member Posts: 36
    Let me see-
    My 1993 Taurus went 325000 miles before I gave it up. It drove to the scrap yard, and the kid there took one look at it and bought it for himself.
    My 2000 Intrepid has 175000 miles now. I just spent(happily) $1200 on needed repairs this Summer. The old girl still gets 30 mpg every day I drive her. A great comfortable commuter.
    I have done absolutely no repairs to my 2007 Focus. 130000 miles. Just tires, brakes and oil changes.
    Would I buy another domestic sedan?
    Why not?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    I could get under my 2000 Intrepid to change its oil and filter, but the filter and drain plug were up in front, and easy to get to. Haven't done it in awhile, but I was also able to squeeze under my '57 DeSoto to change its oil, without having to jack it up. And that's a good thing, because the few times I've been underneath that car with it jacked up, I just get a bad vibe. Dunno why, maybe because of the fact that it's essentially Christine's big brother?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Nice to hear that a 2000 Intrepid is still prowling the streets! Mine, alas, got hit-and-runned in a parking lot back in November 2009, and subsequently totaled out by the insurance company. It had about 150,000 miles on it.

    I still miss it sometimes. It did get good fuel economy, handled well, and was pretty reliable. My only beef was that the dead pedal was in a really bad position for me and when I drove it, I never could get my left leg into a comfortable position. Not bad for short-trip driving, but on the highway it was noticeable after about 45 minutes or so. Mine was just a base model though...I've driven a few with a power seat, and found that I can get it into a much more comfortable position.

    I'm driving a 2000 Park Ave new, which had about 56K on it, and now has around 93K. So, if that old Intrepid was still around, it would have about 187,000 on it. I wonder if it would have made it that far? It was still running well when it got totaled.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited September 2013
    Yep, I'd just as soon not fool with jacks or jack stands. Driving up on Gimmee's 2x6's is fine but that's another step that takes time. I just want to toss my old camping pad down and shimmy under the car. I had a sloping driveway in Boise so I could just hang the front end out a bit and block the wheels good on the van.

    On the DeSoto, you could probably climb into the engine compartment to do any work. :-)
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    I can easily change the oil in the Wrangler, '02, and X3 without raising them an inch. On the ti I raise up the right side with my floor jack and stick a piece of 4X4 under the RF wheel. That gives me enough room to get under the car and pull the drain plug. I then lower it and let the oil drain- repeating the procedure to refit the plug.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited September 2013
    "Let me see-
    My 1993 Taurus went 325000 miles before I gave it up. It drove to the scrap yard, and the kid there took one look at it and bought it for himself.
    My 2000 Intrepid has 175000 miles now. I just spent(happily) $1200 on needed repairs this Summer. The old girl still gets 30 mpg every day I drive her. A great comfortable commuter.
    I have done absolutely no repairs to my 2007 Focus. 130000 miles. Just tires, brakes and oil changes.
    Would I buy another domestic sedan?
    Why not?"

    I don't think anyone would consider what you've experienced anything less than a personal success story. In your case, I'd be asking the very same question..."Why not?"

    But, there are a few caveats to consider.

    As an example, Volvo has created a "high mileage club" for owners of Volvos that have attained mileage amounts comparable or in excess to what you have done. However, I doubt the average Volvo owner would reasonably expect 250K trouble-free miles, even with the appropriate maintenance performed.

    IMO, you attained your mileage levels because of the way you treated your vehicles, rather than getting it because of the way your vehicles treated you.

    As a side note, my BIL just crossed the 275K mile mark in his 2000 Buick. If you asked him, he'd tell you the car has been a trouble-free car, but he has a tendency to forget the number of times he's been stranded on the side of the road, waiting for a tow truck. The last time he visited us, the car had 2" of water in the floorboard, due to a non-draining A/C evaporator. To him, that wasn't anything to be concerned about. He borrowed my drill and punched a few holes in the floorboard. He was in a work car pool until the other 3 riders kicked him out, due to the lack of reliability of his chosen vehicle.

    I'm not suggesting you're anything like him, or that your experience is anything other than exactly what you described. Still, excessively high mileage figures on any make are usually far more anecdotal than an expected reality for most owners.

    The point is that, given the proper maintenance, just about any modern car can run unlimited mileage. Overall, the thing that once spelled doom for an automobile (rust) is nowhere near the issue it once was, and the mechanicals can be maintained indefinitely. I suspect the new "killer" of modern autos is going to be the electronics, or rather the long-term availability of replacement electronic parts...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Yep, I also believe for proper oil drainage the car must be perfectly flat, if not level. :-) I think I'd trust my Chinese floor jacks more than a 4x4 though.

    My CJ-5 was easy too. I even pulled the gas tank one time by just crawling under.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I cannot imagine owning a vehicle with 200k miles or more. I made the mistake of buying a 1999 Ford Ranger V6 FFV with 106k miles on it. Seemed ok driving around the block. We live in the hills and that was a totally gutless pig. At 114k the engine gave up and I traded it on a used Nissan Frontier which is 10 times the truck that Ranger was. No better mileage. Both were lucky to get 17 MPG. Just NO Substitute for a diesel engine.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    This guy proved high mileage can be done...

    http://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-first-car-to-3-million-miles-.html

    Although, if he really did have all the maintenance done, especially by a 3rd party, there's no telling how many new Volvos he could have driven for the same $$$...
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Those are one of the few Volvos that had any real style. Keeping a classic like that up and running is commendable. I have been driving 54 years and don't think I am even close to a million miles. That is way too much driving for me to think about. That would be 150+ miles per day every day for 54 years. No thanks.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    Every car in the RB garage has over 100k on the clock except for my wife's car. We drove the 2004 X3 to church today; at 156k it is still tight and rattle-free. The last used oil analysis indicated that the engine was in excellent condition, so I'm confident that it will serve us well for several more years.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    gagrice said: "I cannot imagine owning a vehicle with 200k miles or more."

    It is kind of a problem when you have a great Japanese brand such as Honda or Nissan. When you get near or over 200K and everything is fine and you like your car, you look for excuses to get rid of it and buy a new car. Probably boredom and looking for something different.

    We finally got rid of a 247K Honda, a 195K Honda, and a 191K Nissan when we got bored and wanted something more current in style, features, etc. and ended up with what? Another Japanese brand. Maybe American brands will be tempt us what with Cadillac and Chevrolet having some interesting offerings. Question remains about reliability.
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,818
    >> Yep, I'd just as soon not fool with jacks or jack stands.

    Amen to that!

    I changed the oil today on our minivan and used ramps and was thinking, I'll not do the jackstand thing again if I can help it. Somehow when I was in my 20s it didn't bother me, but I *hate* getting under a car. Ramps I trust. Especially the steel kind...

    Must be getting old.

    Cheers -Mathias
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It is kind of a problem when you have a great Japanese brand such as Honda or Nissan. When you get near or over 200K and everything is fine and you like your car, you look for excuses to get rid of it and buy a new car. Probably boredom and looking for something different.

    Or you have a Japanese vehicle that was out dated technology wise when you bought it new. Our 07 Sequoia has a lot of good characteristics, such as comfort, roominess, reliability. What it has always lacked is handling, fuel economy and decent electronics. It was my first experience with a NAV. I expected it to be at least close to up to date. When I realized freeways that were at least 3 years old that did not exist. I looked at the DVD that has all the maps. It has a 2005 copyright. Hmmm I have a 2007 top of the line limited Toyota with a 3 year old map DVD. When I mentioned to the service guy he was like whatever. Should be a new one soon. Well soon came in 2009 when they had an updated DVD that they offered me for $500. By then I was using a handheld that was better and cost under $200. The Nav also went dead in 2009 and took months for Toyota to get a new one from India. As a purely people hauler heavy duty vehicle it is fine. I am glad to be rid of it. More than likely my last Japanese vehicle.

    If I am ready to update my PU within the next few years I will look at the Ram diesel. Maybe some other domestic diesels will be available.

    I really do not see the attraction to Honda. Having rented a 2010 Accord for two weeks and ridden in a friends CRV, they are not anything I would consider buying.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited September 2013
    I'd have no problem OWNING a car with over 200K on it, I'd just have a problem giving you more than $500 for it.
  • ohenryxohenryx Member Posts: 285
    I changed the oil today on our minivan and used ramps and was thinking, I'll not do the jackstand thing again if I can help it. Somehow when I was in my 20s it didn't bother me, but I *hate* getting under a car. Ramps I trust. Especially the steel kind...

    I seem to be missing something here. What's the problem with jack stands? Floor jacks, yes, absolutely, I understand not wanting to get under a car / truck supported only by a floor jack. But I've never seen nor heard of a jack stand collapsing.
  • tkfitz1tkfitz1 Member Posts: 36
    are deadly. I put my faith in a good set of jack stands, properly installed on a solid level surface. Jacking a car up and putting blocks under the tires is another safer alternative. I do this when I really have to get it high up.
    One day I am going to splurge on a small garage lift. There are several inexpensive models available. I just need to do something with the low roof.
  • tkfitz1tkfitz1 Member Posts: 36
    I traded a couple posts with you on the Intrepid forum. It has since degenerated into a complaint board where people who bought a old used car complain about it. Very few original owners left.
  • tkfitz1tkfitz1 Member Posts: 36
    Buying a car, and driving it well past the last payment provides the most cost effective ownership experience. I maintain my vehicles, and I try to be proactive with repairs. Any vehicle regardless of age or mileage can break down- just go to any new car dealership and watch what comes into the service dept. I commute 100+ miles a day, so reliability is critical to me. Tires and brakes etc are consumables regardless whether your car is three or thirteen years old. This summer I put an alternator, a/c compressor, front struts, tie rods, sway bar bushings-front and back, and an exhaust on my 14 yr old car. Plus a couple small items. The total was less than 4 months new car payment.....a reasonable risk. The biggest chunk I have spent at any one time as well.
    Rust is still the big killer of autos where I live-the salt used in winter rots everything. The old Dodge is starting to go underneath and at a couple other spots-I will keep an eye out, and retire her when it comes time.
    Two more years please???
    PS to keep on topic(kinda)-parts for "American Cars" are cheap and readily available. A friend of mine recently bought an "Un-american car" for his wife.....Range Rover (used). Enuff said........
  • tkfitz1tkfitz1 Member Posts: 36
    certainly means less today than ever. Cars are produced globally out of globally sourced parts. There is less difference today than ever wrt build quality, parts quality etc than ever before. I would happily buy a "domestic" car or an "import". It all depends on the particular car, price etc..
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I have tried over the last 40 years to buy vehicles built in USA. Most of the domestic trucks were built in Canada or Mexico. The only one a 2005 GMC Sierra Hybrid was USA built and not as well assembled as the foreign assembled ones. 2007 I bought a Sequoia that was 60% US made and better built than the GMC. The 2008 Nissan Frontier 55% US made also much better than the Ford Ranger it replaced. This time I was determined to get a diesel SUV and ended up with one totally made from foreign parts. I will keep everyone posted on how well it does.

    For 2014 the top selling GM vehicles the Sierra and Silverado are down to 40% US content and 51% Mexican. With final assembly both US & M. Our tax dollars at work in Mexico. The 2013 Sierra and Silverado were both 67% US and 29% Mexican made.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Did you do a lot of that work yourself? The last major expense I had on my 2000 Intrepid was when the a/c compressor seized up, and ended up contaminating the whole system. It was my own fault, as I knew it was low on Freon. I was trying to hold off until warmer weather to get it fixed, but one winter morning, picking up a friend from the airport, and running the defroster, it seized up about a half mile from home.

    That bill was $1300...about 4 months of car payments right there!

    Kinda sad that the Intrepid forum has degenerated like that. But, considering the last LH rolled off the assembly line sometime in September 2003, I guess it was destiny. Funny thing is, after I bought the Park Ave, I never really frequented the Park Ave forum on Edmund's. I guess I just didn't bond with this car the way I did the old Trep!

    Last year I bought a 2012 Ram, and I don't think I've even set foot in a Dodge Ram forum on Edmund's. And they say pickup buyers are the most fiercely loyal of all! :-/
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Mr Shift states: "I'd have no problem OWNING a car with over 200K on it, I'd just have a problem giving you more than $500 for it."

    Got $1000 cash for the 14-year old Honda with 247K on it after putting in an ad in a newspaper.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well that's a fair enough price really for anything that can drive around the block.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    I was kinda shocked that my uncle was able to get $2000 in trade for his '03 Corolla, which had about 240K on it, and was pretty beat. Of course, being a trade, sometimes they'll fudge the numbers. But he got (I thought, at least) a pretty good deal on the 2013 Camry he traded on. It was at CarMax.

    For comparison, one of my friends traded an '04 Crown Vic with about 232K on it last year, at CarMax. He traded for an '09 Grand Marquis, and they only gave him $300! And his Crown Vic was in a LOT better shape than my uncle's Corolla was.

    Now, I just wish I could get my mother to realize that nobody in their right mind would pay the ~$2,000 that KBB says her 340K 1999 Altima is worth. :-P
  • ohenryxohenryx Member Posts: 285
    I've always thought the online pricing guides (or, in the old days, the NADA Blue Book) were too lenient when it came to high miles. The "standard" is supposed to be 12k miles per year, if memory serves, and anything over that is to be penalized. But the deduct for 150k miles on a 5 or 6 year old used car is not nearly as high in the books as what it should be in my mind.

    It's getting harder and harder to find a used car with no more than 12 to 15k per year on the clock. I have been reading that Americans are driving less the last few years, but you couldn't prove it by me. My experience used car shopping would indicate the opposite.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The "standard" here has been 15,000 miles for many years. We use that number for TCO as well as TMV.

    Got new tires for my '99 van a few month back, which tripled its value. But I probably would just keep it instead of selling it for the ~$500 TMV.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Not so. The Honda had mainly highway, interstate miles. Drove very well. Was very tight and rattle free, good paint, very little rust, excellent shape interior. This in contrast to my Chevrolet Suburban of the exact same vintage year as the Honda. The quality, reliability, body integrity, engine, interior of the two was light years apart. And, the Chevrolet had one-third the overall miles being it was used mainly for utility, was garage kept. Chevrolet of that vintage year was far inferior to the Honda in every regard. Of course, hauling capacity not included here.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    edited September 2013
    I've always heard that the standard is 10-12,000 per year when you're trading a used car to the dealer, but when you're buying one from the dealer, suddenly it's 15,000.

    Regardless, once a car gets to a certain mileage, I don't think it deserves a low-mileage credit. For instance, my '68 Dart was 42 model years old when I got rid of it, and had 338,000 miles on it. That may only be 8,047 miles per year, but that car was NOT low mileage! :P
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The most expensive part of keeping vehicles you don't drive much is the insurance and license. This year on the 24 year old LS400 smog and license $188. Liability insurance $320. New battery was $124 as the 6 year battery went bad at 4 years just sitting in the garage most of the time. Add a $70 synthetic oil change. I would sell it and save us $58 a month. Its the wife's baby. So it gets a spot in our 3 car garage.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The above mentioned 24 year old Lexus has 105K miles on the odo. That is low mileage. I don't think anyone would pay much attention. As it would take someone that wants a first year LS400 in primo condition. They seem to be going around $5000.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    edited September 2013
    How many miles per year does that Lexus get driven? Even if the wife loves it, does it get used enough to keep it around? Also, with it taking up garage space, does that force another car to sit out in the elements?

    BTW, what would the going rate be for a garage space these days, I wonder, if you had to rent one? I wonder if that should be factored into the cost of the car?

    I had a 4-car garage built back in late 2005, and it was finished up in early 2006. I'm probably in that garage about $33,000 at this point, and had full use of it for about 7 1/4 years. I figure that works out to around $95 per month, per space. Not too expensive, I guess. But, if I didn't have the old cars, I never would have had to build it!

    **Edit...wow Gagrice, you must have been reading my mind!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    high miles is not only about how the car looks and drives, but it's about statistics.

    At 250,000 miles, a car could look and drive fine, and just let loose in one catastrophic moment, and nobody would say "Gee, only 250,000 miles and your transmission burned up..."
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Most of the miles this year were put on by my wife's niece and family. They were here for 3 weeks in June. They did leave it spotless full of gas and a $30 gift certificate for Phil's BBQ. Best experience yet lending a car. Just looking at the spreadsheet. It had 106,805 when I got it smogged a week ago. All original exhaust and emissions. And it was way below the max on all the tests. It had 96k when I first added it to my spreadsheet in January 2009. Less than 3000 a year. We drive it to the zoo or downtown. Just to keep it charged up. I don't like the low slung tuna boat ride. Not bad as cars go. A heck of a lot better than the Accord we rented in Indiana. I did put a new set of Michelins on it back in 2009. She had some nearly new off brand tires a friend sold her. One had a bubble that caused the car to shimmy. Needless to say the friend and tire shop was gone. I don't buy cheap tires even for a parked car. And yes it takes a space in the garage. I don't think I would put the PU in there anyway.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    "Buying a car, and driving it well past the last payment provides the most cost effective ownership experience. I maintain my vehicles, and I try to be proactive with repairs."

    I agree totally. From a pure $$$ standpoint, unless there are unusual circumstances, the average modern production car could probably be kept and driven indefinitely (and maintained properly) cheaper than buying multiple cars over the same time period. That's the reason manufacturers spend so much money on marketing, so the public will feel the need to trade cars often. And, its difficult to factor in enhanced safety features into the costs equation.

    "...parts for "American Cars" are cheap and readily available."

    That's certainly been true in the past, but as car production continues its progression into parts from worldwide suppliers, I'm not so sure that trend will continue. That's why I think the primary limiting factor in the longevity of cars purchased today will be much more electrical/electronic related .vs. mechanical/body panel related.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    That's the reason manufacturers spend so much money on marketing, so the public will feel the need to trade cars often. And, its difficult to factor in enhanced safety features into the costs equation.

    I wonder how often, on average, people trade nowadays versus back in the old days? Once upon a time, the styles changed so fast that people were encouraged to trade every few years, whether the old ride was still running strong or not. In 1957, nobody wanted a car if it didn't have fins, but by 1960 or so, nobody really wanted a car with those towering monstrosities.

    And once upon a time, a new style could come out that made the previous look downright ancient...for instance, every time GM downsized something in the late 1970's. Or the 1986 Taurus versus the LTD. Heck, even when Ford redid the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis for 1992, they seemed to make the old models seem ancient.

    I'd guess people don't trade nearly as often as they used to, so sometimes I wonder how the auto makers stay profitable? They also don't restyle as often as they used to, or offer as many choices, so that might be part of it.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    "I wonder how often, on average, people trade nowadays versus back in the old days?"

    The main difference between then and now is that no one leased cars in the 50-60's, but leasing is incredibly common today.

    Leasing effectively changed the way cars were, and are, marketed.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I was astounded to find that my VW dealer leases 70% of the vehicles they move. And sell the rest with 0% financing? Hard to imagine. I think some automakers are just floating in cash.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Some of it was style and planned obsolescence, but cars really didn't last all that long either. Once you hit 50,000 miles you were living on borrowed time. Three year trade-ins were the norm in the 50s and 60s if you could afford it.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    I suspect the premium Germans are the same way. The profit margins on these vehicles are huge, they aren't losing money at it.
  • tkfitz1tkfitz1 Member Posts: 36
    and increasingly integrated systems might determine the end of life for vehicles today. At some point, the repair cost exceeds the comfort level of the owner. It is not just the cost of a replacement engine or tranny any more.
    As an example the charging issue with my car could have been the alternator, a wiring harness or even the engine ECM. The ECM would have cost me 300-400.
    There are countless parts whose failure would result in an check engine or ABS light-even though the car could still drive it would no longer pass the state inspection without repair.....
    And bad advice/repairs by unskilled, uninformed "pros" can cost 1000s.
    Those old cars that went miles and lasted decades had something modern cars lack-metal parts.
    But I am not complaining about modern comfort/safety/reliability or fuel economy either.
  • tkfitz1tkfitz1 Member Posts: 36
    Compressor-$125
    dryer-$25
    expansion valve-$20
    another $50 or so for cleaner, oil and R134
    I borrowed a friends a/c machine. Bought parts on e-bay.
    I went in from the top-pulled the top radiator support, removed the cooling fan and then removal was easy.
    This one was my fault as well. Note to self-if you have to add freon there is a leak. And if the gas gets out the oil does as well. It all made perfect sense after the compressor seized on me. It was last winter too-I was running the defroster. The leak is the evaporator-I hope the a/c sealer works. I do not want to deal with removing that.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I was watching a "How Its Made" program last nite on the Bentley currently in production (they're doing a series on exotic performance, high $$$ cars).

    According to the show, the Bentley has 8 MILES of wiring inside a single car.

    That's a lot of conductive material to keep in conductive shape. Maine tracking down a wiring problem in that vehicle...

    At least, I understand one reason the car cost so much...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Most modern cars have about 5 miles of wiring says Todd H. Hubing,
    Michelin Professor of Vehicular Electronics, Clemson University.

    And most new cars contain about 100 microprocessors and that is expected to double by 2018.

    The big bugaboo, I'm told, is worrying about electromagnetic compatibility.
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