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Lincoln MKS

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Comments

  • I would urge you to try one for yourself. Different people have different preferences regarding ride - some prefer soft and cushy while others like firm and controlled. My guess is that you will find the ride quality quite comparable to the others that you mention.

    Most who have criticized the MKS ride were expecting it to be soft and cushy - like a Lincoln Town Car, Cadillac DTS, or Buick Lucerne. It is quite a bit firmer than any of those. It is also a lot firmer than the Taurus upon which it is based.

    Let us know what you think after you drive one.
  • I think that lincoln should give the MKS a 3.7 with a least 300 hp. I mean what was the purpose of boring out the 3.5 for it to only generate 10 more hp than the MKZ. I mean even the accord, camry, and altima have similar outputs. Even if its the "temporary flagship" it should have a a base engine that more powerful than its siblings especially since it weighs more too.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,724
    What is it about "lack of time and engineering resources to implement direct injection" did you fail to understand?
  • What part do you understand about a fully equipped $48,000 flagship car having almost the same power output as a accord (268 hp), and having less power than a maxima 273 to 290
  • Well, the marketing segment that the car is aimed at are the Donny and Marie Osmond fans. That is why it is a little bit sport sedan and a little bit boulevardier. Like being a little bit country and a little bit rock "n" roll. Lincoln will probably have an MKS Donnie and Marie Osmond edition. I want Lincoln and Ford to know right now that if they do , they owe me some royalties for the idea.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,724
    Mercedes E350 - 268 hp, $53K. And it's a lot smaller. It's not a sport sedan. 300 would be better, but it's adequate for now until the EB version gets here.
  • First before anyone gets the wrong idea I am a Lincoln fanantic but its hard to be one right now when they keep having half thought out vehicles. Mercedes has the prestige that lincoln used to have and wants to get back to in the future. And i take it that you have never driven a E-Class because if you had thats it handling is like a lotus compared to the MKS. The E-Class is also being redesigned for 2010 and will have an new turbocharged V6. i also need to bring to your attention that the current E-Class is in the last year of its production and still produces nearly the same amount of power as the new MKS.
  • Didn't the LS share platforms and engines with Jag? Couldn't Lincoln have done the same? Oh I forgot the car would cost more than a Buick. On CNBC an auto-market analyst said that Ford is going to put all of their projects that have nothing to do with fuel economy on hold for at least an extra 2 -4 yrs. And depending on the price of fuel and regulations, they may abandon those projects. With Ford teetering on the verge of bankruptcy, I don't believe that it is too interested in producing a high performance Lincoln. Look for the 4 cylinder ecoboost to be introduced before the 6 cylinder version
  • i never said for them 2 build a high performance lincoln. Just build something thats near the top of the field. And another thing why does lincoln and ford for the fact think that comparing lincoln to buick is a good idea. I thought they built the MKS to further generate a lower aged customer base, comparing itself to buick would be doing just the opposite
  • Yea, leave the domestic performance stuff to Cadillac. Let Cadillac's products gain all the glory. That has always been the way. Lets face it, Ford could never produce a Lincoln comparable to Cadillac and sometimes Chrysler in terms of performance. And sometimes Lincoln's quality would be sub-par to Cadillac and Chrysler as well.
  • Lincoln SHOULD be building cars that have performance but i know that they cant do that currently because they dont have a platform ready. What I was pointing out that although lincoln cant directly compete with caddy, Benz, BMW, Infinity, and Lexus right now the still shouldnt be saying that they are targeting Buick, who looked at as even more un-luxurious in most buyers eyes than Lincoln is. Just equip the MKS with a DI 3.7 with 300-310HP standard ( with the option of a more sport oriented suspension), give the 2010 MKZ a 3.7 without direct injection that produces 273 and 3.7 DI as an option. In about 6 months time that shouldnt be too much to ask for as the ecoboost WITH direct injection will be arriving so ford can then DI the 3.7's
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,422
    In this now global financial crisis, Lincoln will not catch a break. Totally wrong time to be trying to get back into the luxury market. The dummies at Ford earlier this decade were just as ignorant of their real operations and how business works long-term as those at Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, AIG, Freddie, Fannie,, etc., etc. And they had no idea as well how far-reaching and devastating their more-guts-than-brains approach would be. Payment for their greed and short-sightedness is far from over. Lincoln's foray back into luxury with the MKS is pretty pathetic on the face of it. But what else could they do?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,724
    I think pathetic is a little harsh. Yes, the platform is lacking but I applaud them for finally getting competitive luxury features and even leapfrogging the competition for a change. The only thing lacking in the interior is a new gauge cluster and some wood for the center stack.

    I also give them credit for the interior changes for the 2010 MKZ - pretty significant for a mid cycle refresh.

    But I agree that it will take them years to get out of the hole the company dug for them a few years ago when they were treated like red-headed stepchildren.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,724
    There is no way Ford is putting projects on hold for 2-4 years. I'm sure they are accelerating fuel economy related projects and delaying others due to limited resources but I don't think it's that drastic or that long.

    The 4 cylinder ecoboost is way behind the 3.5L. I think the best case is we see the I4 EB late next year following the 3.5L next spring/summer, if they can pull it up that far. Don't forget the 3.5L EB is not just for cars - the F150 will also be using it and that IS a fuel economy project.
  • datagendatagen Posts: 107
    If I am not mistaken, I believe the wood package cover the center stack also as an option.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,724
    That's what I was hoping, too, but it doesn't. At least not that I've seen anywhere. I don't understand why not - they could certainly recover the cost by making it an option.
  • Mercedes also has that prestige based on the past, not it's most recent cars. Frankly, a Lincoln has been a better buy quality wise than Mercedes has been over the past 5 years. That said, Mercedes is turning things around and getting back on the right track.

    Comparing Lincoln to Mercedes is apples to oranges though, because the Merc is a RWD sport sedan and the Lincoln is a FWD luxury sedan. That said, the MKS is still a base model IIRC. From what i understand a Twin Turbo version of the 3.7L is in the works that will put out 300+ hp. (I could be going off of old info that has since changed, but I remember hearing this somewhere.) The point that the other poster was trying to make is that a company can offer a high class sedan with less than 300 hp. Mercedes currently offers a base model E class with 268hp for $53k and Lincoln offers a base model MKS with 275hp for $39k.

    In a comparison that's more accurate, the Cadillac DTS has a 4.6L V8 that only puts out 275 horses as well and that car starts at $43k. Just throwing that out there.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,422
    I think pathetic is a little harsh. You are right, if you are interpreting that as a critique of the MKS. What I really meant is, here is a world-wide recession, a pulling in of cheap leases on luxury cars, and a generalized sales downturn. Meanwhile, other than the MKS (which still doesn't have the direct injection engine available), Lincoln's line-up is motley and not changing fast. The F150 clone is going away (and should), the Navigator is failing in the marketplace with no replacement in sight, the MKX is little more than an Edge with lipstick (and doesn't look a thing like any other Lincoln), the MKZ has to soldier on with a Fusion body for several more years, and the Town Car, which unfortunately still sets the image for Lincoln, is now deservedly fleet only. What's on the horizon? The MKT, which is not exactly what Lincoln needs right now, and will only appear in very watered down form after almost another year passes. All that is pathetic.

    Look at Cadillac with their much better/more integrated line-up. They still have major problems in making decent sales in this environment. Even so, they have still lots of new models coming (new CUV, CTS coupe, CTS wagon, new small RWD sedan, plus a planned DTS/STS replacement). How will Lincoln ever catch up? The resources aren't there, and present lineup cannot sustain them over the next several years. It's a tough place to be.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,724
    I don't disagree - it will be tough and it will take years to get the product line turned around. But I'm not sure I'd use Cadillac as the poster child. The SRX was a failure and is being replaced. I'm pretty sure they cancelled the new DTS/STS replacement. I like the CTS and variations but that and the Escalade(s) are really the only things they've done even remotely right.

    I'm not ready to throw in the towel on the MKT yet. I think those prototypes have padding under the camo and the production vehicle may still be very close to the concept car. It's also possible they'll have both a 3 row and 2 row model with the 2 row model using the concept rear design while the 3 row model has a more conventional rear to accomodate the extra seats.

    If it looks like a flex or navigator rear though I agree that's not good at all.
  • I agree with greeg vw, Caddy has a couple of planned products even if some are off the same platform they have new products planned. Lincoln only has the MKT as completion for the rwd platform has no specific finish date. Due to fuel prices and lack of money i understand with ford not having a proper rwd platform currently but they at least could try to make their existing and upcoming products (2010 MKZ, 2010 MKT) very competitive. Lets not forget that GM is also in a fiancial crisis but they are still planning new product for caddy because they know in todays car market you cant become placent. Future Lincolns need to have something that is going to put them at or near the top of the class. Since they say that the 3.7 is "lincoln exclusive", then make it truely lincoln exclusive and give it to all lincolns, let the fusion and milan have the 3.5 as options.

    2010 Mks(Standard 3.7 Direct Injection 310Hp, Sport suspension option, 3.5 ecoboost 360HP)

    2010 MKZ(Standard 3.7 273 Hp, Optional 3.7 D.I. 300-310HP, manumatic, standard traction control, updgrade suspension option)

    2010 MKT(Standard 3.7 D.I. 310 Hp, 3.5 ecoboost 360-370 Hp optional, more sporty suspension than flex)
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,422
    I certainly wasn't holding Cadillac up as a great example of what to do. What I was saying is that even with their much more extensive and current lineup, they are not doing so very well (though way better than Lincoln). Even their worst stuff is better than what Ford left Lincoln to contend with. The DTS is nowhere near as ancient as the Town Car. The STS may not be selling, but it is a decent ride.

    The Escalade is holding up even in this tough environment. There is an Escalade hybrid. The SRX is being replaced with a more efficient and less station-wagony model. Lincoln has nothing at all like the CTS, which will soon be expanded by a coupe and a very racy looking wagon. The ESV and EXT extend the Escalade range. The XLR gives them a halo car. The V series adds to the cachet. And they already have a small presence in Europe. Plus plans for yet another rear drive platform right smack in BMW 1 and 3 series territory, but for less money.

    And yet their situation remains tenuous. Lincoln by contrast has almost nothing on deck. That's what I mean. The product planners and bean counters back in 2001 had no idea what havoc they would wreak and how their ture lack of skills might not just sink Ford from its long held #2 spot, but even spell the end for another venerable old brand like Lincoln.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Personally, I liked the handling and ride of the MKS. It was a luxurious ride, but had decent handling. I wouldn't call it sport, but don't think the car could ever be a serious sport contender with the FWD platform. It was comfortable, large enough, and adequately powered for what it was designed to do. The Eco-Boost will certainly be a plus. I liked it well enough to consider buying one next year to replace my Lexus. Frankly, it's quieter and tighter than my LS430 is. Hard to believe, but true.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Lets face it, Ford could never produce a Lincoln comparable to Cadillac and sometimes Chrysler in terms of performance. And sometimes Lincoln's quality would be sub-par to Cadillac and Chrysler as well.

    You're wrong there. Cadillac had the glory until the 80's, when they were making Oldsmobuicks with failing aluminum engines. (Coincidentally when I left Cadillac and went over to Lincoln). The Town car of the 80's and 90's was far superior to the Cadillac in every way. That all ended in 1998 though, and Lincoln has been spiraling down ever since, even abandoning the best lincoln ever made, the LS. I will argue however, that Lincoln's quality was EVER worse than Chrysler - not even sure about Cadillac....have to think that one over. Depends on the model I guess.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,724
    Lack of a global RWD platform and the mismanagement that allowed team Mustang to basically design their own one-off non-reusable platform is what killed Lincoln product wise. All things the Mulally and Fields would not have allowed if they'd been in charge back then. Of course that's water under the bridge now......
  • whats the reason that lincoln cant use the mustang platform?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,724
    Not sure exactly - just that the engineers have said that it can't be stretched for a sedan. Bottom line is they engineered the platform specifically for one vehicle - not taking into account any platform sharing. This is the way Ford used to operate - do whatever you want if you can make a business case. That's also how we ended up with a different Focus platform also not shared with anything else.

    That's why GRWD is so important. The potential cost savings for shared platforms between north america and the aussies is huge which would allow Ford to make more money on less individual volume.
  • Wasn't it Fields who determined that the Mustang didn't need an IRS?
  • It just dawn on me. Lincoln isn't interested in stealing customers from those that drive 2005 and newer STS' with the MKS, it is aiming to capture those STS owners that still drive the fwd pre 2005 version of the STS. You know those that want to go zoom zoom instead of verrr-room ,verrr-room. Also, how does your sales people handle it when a customer ask "but what kind of wood is that in the car?" I have the perfect answer. Just tell the customer that it is ultra rare wood from the composite tree. Again if any Ford and Lincoln marketing people decide to use my nifty answer, I want royalties!
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,724
    Also, how does your sales people handle it when a customer ask "but what kind of wood is that in the car?" I have the perfect answer. Just tell the customer that it is ultra rare wood from the composite tree.

    That would be funny if it wasn't completely wrong. The MKS has real wood.
  • I know it has real wood. What type of wood is it? Is it maple,oak, walnut or is the veneer a composite of different types of wood? Similar to particle board?
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