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Lincoln MKS

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Comments

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,722
    Why don't you answer the question that was asked about your affiliation with Ford? In order to get an unbiased opinion of the product consumers have a right to know if those who are posting on this site are affiliated with Ford. Don't you agree? I can't wait for the next answer.

    So you're not even reading my posts? I said this in post 2148 about 18 hours ago:

    I certainly don't work for Ford but I am a Ford fan.

    I can't be any more clear. And I've been building furniture for 20 years so I know how they make particleboard, chipboard, MDF and tabletops. Particleboard doesn't look anything like real wood.

    You've never said that it didn't match or didn't look or feel good, so your hangup is simply on the manufacturing process. If it looks and feels good, what difference does it make?

    Yes, the MKS shares a basic platfom with the Taurus. It is therefore FWD and nose heavy and they share a transmission and possibly the gauge cluster. Everything else in the car is unique to the MKS including the roof line and doors which is the most obvious place to save money.

    And you never answered MY question: do you work for Toyota?
  • I don't work for any auto maker. An automaker wouldn't want me. I restore autos. If one is buying a premium vehicle ,one would expect to get a premium interior. That doesn't include recycled wood . Recycled wood is alright on lesser cars. And as far as Ford being green, I don't care if Ford is purple ,orange, red or a combination of. And I really don't care if the car only gets 10 mpg. People who could afford paying for a premium car should be able to afford the fuel and the extra cost of a premium interior using ebony or oak that has a matching grain pattern from a block of wood. In my opinion the engineered wood is just another method of if trying to do things on the cheap. Make it as cheaply as possible and then charge for it as though the option is made from a block of wood that has a matching grain pattern. I don't mean only Ford . Ford gets mentioned only because the MKS is a Ford product and that is what this forum is about. I think that every manufacturer would always try to do things as cheaply as possible and then try to maximize the return on investment from doing such. What I take exception to is doing that on what is supposed to be a premium vehicle. I would expect at least a little craftsmanship on that type a car. One has to ask if Ford couldn't use its engineered genuine wood ,would Ford use any wood at all in this car? Would Ford deemed genuine wood as being too costly? Another thing, what is happening to craftsmanship? If your a furniture maker, or a person who likes to make his own furniture and cabinets ,etc, then you should be concerned also.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,722
    Nobody has complained about the wood in the MKS interior. In fact it's been praised. You're the only one who has an issue with it. If you don't like it then don't buy it. Olive Ash is an option and is solid natural wood - ebony is an option. This isn't a hand built luxury car costing 6 figures. It isn't even a $60K Lexus or Mercedes.

    And I guarantee you if any other import mfr was doing the same thing it would be celebrated as another example of environmental responsibility. But because it's Ford it's criticized.
  • I feel that many of your posts are worth reading. I feel that many posts from others are also worth reading. I have learned lots about the MKS from this forum. Don't anyone become discouraged by reading some of these posts that are directed towards certain people. Let's not let it get personal here. We all have the right to have our own opinions. We can explain them if asked. We shouldn't have to go out of our way to defend ourselves, however.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,722
    Point taken, however I don't appreciate the "you must work for Ford" accusations. And some people don't understand the difference between opinions and facts.

    "I don't like the ebony wood" is an opinion that nobody can argue with. Why can't we stick with that?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I have been fairly complimentary of the MKS, and own a Lexus LS430. Let me assure you, I have NO connections to Ford whatsoever. I just like the car. I wouldn't be so suspicious, personally.
  • dds010dds010 Posts: 33
    Thought the 09 Gator was suppose to be getting the 6.2 since it wouldnt be used in other applications.Until it gets a suitable powerplant then its going to continue to lang behind the Escalade. Its funny how it be producing the same amount of power since '99, and the Caddy was playing catch up, now its been completly redesigned 3 times and the Gator has only got front and rear end redesigns, man how times have changed.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,722
    True, but do you really think a bigger engine with more power is what the public wants right now?
  • Saturday, I got in an MKS, started it and the salesman and I took off. About 3 blocks later, a bell started to chime and he said it was because his belt was not fastened. It kept chiming after he fastened it and then the car stopped and would not restart. He said it was out of gas. I walked back to my car.
    Anybody had any experiences such as this? It didn't seem to give a lot of warning before shutting down completely.
  • datagendatagen Posts: 107
    Did you see anything flashing as well? What was the gas gage indicator indicating? If it was that low, it should have indicated this when you started it up. I know the owners manual is on-line somewhere (anyone have that?) where the process for low fuel can be checked out.
  • I went to a Hyundai/Lincoln dealer and drove comparably equipped MKS and Genesis' back to back. Both had 18'" wheels. Drove city streets, country road and interstate. I did not "push" any of the cars hard and was mainly interested in everyday driving. If you cannot take criticizm of MKS or Genesis, please read no further.
    The MKS had a somewhat bouncy ride, but better than my Azera. I did not detect a pronounced body roll as Edmunds reported, but there was a little.
    The Genesis rode much rougher than either the MKS or my 07 Azera, but was not as bouncy as the Azera with brand new L460 shocks. This was on all three road types. The dash and console of the Genesis are much more impressive, especially with black leather instead of the brown. The MKS is larger inside and feels it. Even cruising at about 40 MPH, the Genesis was very harsh over moderate pavement irregularities. It was much worse than either the MKS or my Azera and had the feeling that if I pushed it hard on straights or curves, it would start heaving and wallowing severely.
    I agree with Car & Driver and Automobile magazine that Hyundai needs to revisit the suspension on the Genesis.
    the Genesis was $5,000 cheaper than the MKS and had better power.
    The MKS performance was OK, except when you had to accelerate uphill to enter the interstate, it took more pressure on the gas pedal to get up to speed. The wood trim on the MKS impressed me much more than the leather on the Genesis.
    I checked the gauge this time and it had a quarter of a tank. I did not notice the fuel gauge the other time.
    For what Ford is asking for this car and what they expect it to do for Lincoln, they need to make it a little better. The dash/knobs/buttons could be improved to comparable with Genesis, Acura, Infiniti, etc. They just do not look that good. Edmunds edititors referred to them as too Fordish switchgear. Add some color to the dash and console. If you get the darker wood trim, it really is monochromatic.
  • Ford has laid off 750 employees at the Chicago Torrence ave plant that produces the Taurus, Sable and MKS. The reason is that there is an oversupply of inventory of these three models. So much for the MKS being popular with the discerning motoring public. The BMW 500 series and the Cadillac DTS out sells the car. Both more expensive models. One has to ask why do two more expensive cars outsell the less expensive car? Any MKS defenders know why?
  • The Navigator will eventually be replaced by the MKT. The Navigator will be discontinued by the start of 2010. I expect a certain person to post a reply that counters this. Nevertheless it is true. The new rear wheel drive platform for Lincoln and another large Ford sedan is also to be discontinued for the American market. Ford is going fwd for all of its domestic models except for the Mustang if it survives. Wishfull hopes will not change that. Look for the platform for the next gen Mustang to be smaller than the present one. There is some rumor that the Mustang may be discontinued eventhough the refreshed Mustang is due for 2011 as sales of this model has declined precipitously. Also Ford Volvo is terminating over 6000 employees. Ford is stuck with it. So much for any other manufacturing wanting to purchase Volvo. Well, maybe the Federal Government.
  • I was reading some of your post in the forum Where is Ford Taking Lincoln and also in this forum. In both forums you use the term, "my Ford connections," this term gives people the idea that you have a connection with Ford. Do you or don't you.? If by that term you mean that you have a friend who works for Ford ,make it clear. Also, The Mustang that is most used for racing by both professionals and novices has an IRS usually designed by Roush. Some dealers sell these models to those that order them. This models can be driven in all fifty states by the average motorist. This means that the vehicles are considered to be standard street vehicles that some race circuits require.
  • The LS 430 is obsolete and it still is a better made car than the MKS which is a new design. How well will the MKS compare to the LS460?
  • Why compare the wood trim on the MKS to the leather that is used in the Genesis?
  • theman123theman123 Posts: 170
    I found this Video review by Top Speed on You Tube. What do you all think ?

    Top Speed Review of the 2009 Lincoln MKS
  • datagendatagen Posts: 107
    Well not defending but just speculating here. Your statement may explain a few things. First I will say that the MKS will not outsell the BMW and DTS for some time if ever. It is funny that even in this fast pace world things take time. It takes time for people to warm up to something new and different from a manufacturer who has had marketing and operational issues. It is funny that many of the Ford employees I talked with were impress with the MKS commercials. Many said that it was something that Ford should have been doing for sometime. When you have a product better than the marketing force that pushes the product, Dearborn you have a problem.

    With the current economic situation and with it to be going on for sometimes to come, all bets are off. Sales projections, modification projects, and other growth elements are on hold. Your statement tells me that the production cut backs explains why in the Detroit area a dealer only has a few MKS on the lots is any at all. Numbers are all over the chart now and nothing can be seen. This situation may be for sometime (5-6 years) to come. To sun it up, there was an article in the Sunday Detroit Free Press about the Ford Flex. The headline said “The Flex, great vehicle bad timing.”
  • Then again why is it that a car with a base price that is lower than a BMW5 or an obsolete DTS not able to outsell these models? In your post you state that it may never outsell he Bimmer or DTS. Why is that? I believe it is because the segment of purchasers for these type of autos have a perception that a car that is suppose to be a competitor to the DTS or Bimmer that has a cheaper price must be cheaply made for this type of market. Otherwise, price equals quality. If the car is being positioned to compete with the Buick Lucerne, then will it outsell the Buick? If not, then the average purchaser in this market segment is not convinced that the Lincoln is as good as its Buick counterpart. Its going to take more then commercials to convince the market segment that this car is aimed at that the car has better or equal value as its competition. Even if Major Tom or ground control tells them it is. It has to do with consumer experiences. The consumer has always believed that GM products are superior to Ford products in quality and that Ford products are superior to Chrysler products and that foreign products are superior to all three. Its hard to change that perception. Tell me why continue to manufacture the Taurus X and the Flex . They both compete with each other. From my experience with potential buyers the style of the Flex is either love or hate. Maybe that is why the Taurus X is still being produced. Again the Torrence Ave plant in Chicago is diminishing production for these autos along with the Taurus and Sable . As far as the economy, I believe what is the real cause of all of the mess is the cost of energy. All caused by rabid speculation without regard to the well being of the whole economy. There was never a reason for oil to hit 100 dollars a barrel let alone 147 dollars. The price for a barrel should have never been higher than 75 to 80 dollars.There was never a shortage of product. Its just that a lot of speculators found a loop hole in the law and decided to use it for their advantage. I am happy to say I was not one of them. Whomever becomes president I hope will curtail this type of greed with a return to prior laws that regulated these actions.
  • datagendatagen Posts: 107
    Your comments are well founded on the energy situation. I believe there were a number of factors that when it all came together became the perfect storm for a catastrophe. Granted the one element in all of these factors was greed and it will haunt us for some time to come.

    You seem bent on instant success of failure on a product. True it has happened in the past but the pattern again is time. If the MKS outsells the others fine, but if it does, it won’t be this years or next. Maybe on it’s third years and forward. If the marketing teams are on the ball, they should have new commercials that point out the advantages of the MKS over its competitors. The last time I checked, Consumer Reports still had not fully tested the car yet. My purchase of the MKS is based upon my history with Ford and Lincolns. You are right the Flex is a vehicle you got to love or hate. I guess the experts got together and figured out that if they can make money from the ones who love it, then they may get the others over in time. I could see a fleet of taxi flex in a large city then maybe it will grow from there, who knows what those guys were thinking at the time.

    The Taurus X may be the teaser car that they plan to slowly bring down to get people to move over to the Flex. Price and quality mean different thing to different people. The quality of the MKS has not yet been proven at this stage, so the numbers aren’t there. Throw in this economic situation and your guess (point of the quality) is just as good as anyone’s. Ford had proven to the critics that they could make a luxury vehicle (the LS) cheaper. The MKS has received many favorable comments, though not perfect; it may make it mark as well. Personally I like having a quality cheaper vehicle that few others have. The MKZ started out as the Zephyr and it took some time for that market to grow and in truth it was the foundation for the MKS and MKR concept. So for now lets give it time and see what happens. As far as president, I believe anyone who would want the job in this mess needs their head examined.
  • datagendatagen Posts: 107
    Your comments are well founded on the energy situation. I believe there were a number of factors that when it all came together became the perfect storm for a catastrophe. Granted the one element in all of these factors was greed and it will haunt us for some time to come.

    You seem bent on instant success of failure on a product. True it has happened in the past but the pattern again is time. If the MKS outsells the others fine, but if it does, it won’t be this years or next. Maybe on it’s third years and forward. If the marketing teams are on the ball, they should have new commercials that point out the advantages of the MKS over its competitors. The last time I checked, Consumer Reports still had not fully tested the car yet. My purchase of the MKS is based upon my history with Ford and Lincolns. You are right the Flex is a vehicle you got to love or hate. I guess the experts got together and figured out that if they can make money from the ones who love it, then they may get the others over in time. I could see a fleet of taxi flex in a large city then maybe it will grow from there, who knows what those guys were thinking at the time.

    The Taurus X may be the teaser car that they plan to slowly bring down to get people to move over to the Flex. Price and quality mean different thing to different people. The quality of the MKS has not yet been proven at this stage, so the numbers aren’t there. Throw in this economic situation and your guess (point of the quality) is just as good as anyone’s. Ford had proven to the critics that they could make a luxury vehicle (the LS) cheaper. The MKS has received many favorable comments, though not perfect; it may make it mark as well. Personally I like having a quality cheaper vehicle that few others have. The MKZ started out as the Zephyr and it took some time for that market to grow and in truth it was the foundation for the MKS and MKR concept. So for now lets give it time and see what happens. As far as president, I believe anyone who would want the job in this mess needs their head examined.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,722
    The Navigator will eventually be replaced by the MKT. The Navigator will be discontinued by the start of 2010. I expect a certain person to post a reply that counters this. Nevertheless it is true. The new rear wheel drive platform for Lincoln and another large Ford sedan is also to be discontinued for the American market. Ford is going fwd for all of its domestic models except for the Mustang if it survives. Wishfull hopes will not change that. Look for the platform for the next gen Mustang to be smaller than the present one.

    And your source for this is what? Motor Trend and Rumor Mills? Or do you have inside knowledge? I don't but I do know that you can't trust a lot of what's being reported because most of it is speculation (pun intended) based on limited comments from company executives that are being misintepreted.

    As for me - my Ford sources are current and former Ford employees on several websites - public and private. I don't know why I have to explain that to you or what difference it makes, but if it makes you feel better......

    People buy BMWs for 2 reasons - prestige and performance, in that order. The MKS has neither. It's a luxury sedan and Lincoln is still trying to build prestige. And people don't buy these types of cars based on price.

    Here's the OTHER side to your sales coin: the MKS which has only been available for a couple of months, outsold the Lexus GS, Audi A6, Infiniti M35/45, Cadillac CTS and Jag XF. Please explain that.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,422
    The Taurus X may be the teaser car that they plan to slowly bring down to get people to move over to the Flex.

    You give Ford too much credit, The Taurus X is the Freestyle with a different grill and upgraded engine. Ford thought the conservative station wagon crossover would sell, and when it didn't thought giving it a more distinctive grill and a bit more power would juice sales. It was not one of their better ideas.

    They then scrambled to get the Flex to market. Meanwhile, the X is still a very new design and it would be dumb to just dump it without giving it some more time for additional sales. And of course the Flex, a polarizing design that the X should have had (had Ford had any real thinking people in charge), arrived just at the wrong time. Besides, Ford is hardly the only company that has several crossovers for sale in the same showroom.

    This mishmash within the American Ford brands, Lincoln included, is just ludicrous, but again hardly a Ford exclusive. Meanwhile the more integrated and better designed European Fords are still at least two years away. I wouldn't bet on the survical of an independent Ford--or the Lincoln brand at all.
  • Because IMO, the wood looks better and offers a greater contrast. Since everybody except Genesis uses "wood" or aluminum, must be a reason.
  • I've driven all three and Lexus admits that the ride on the LS 430 was not as good as it should have been. The 460 does ride some better than the MKS, but for $25,000 more, it darn well should. The 460 has less on it than the MKS unless you get up into the $75,000+ area and service costs a whole lot more for Lexus.
    The only Lincoln dealer in about six counties of a large SMSA only has one MKS and has sold everyone that came in within a week or so. On the other hand, he also sells Genesis' and those are beginning to build up.
    The inventory of Lexus LS 460's in this area is really building up, so much so that they are now offering as much as $8,000 off whereas the normal discount is $2,000.
    The only cars selling now are economy cars and even very few of those due to the credit crisis, the financial crisis and the fear that most people have about what is going to happen.
  • datagendatagen Posts: 107
    OK everyone as promised, I finally got my MKS. The dealer called me yesterday around high noon to say that he had it confirmed that it just came off the truck. It had been on order since 27 Feb, but due to the things I wanted on it, I had to wait. After going through all the paperwork I went through approx 20 minute briefing on the navigational system and other features of the car. Part of this dealerships policy is to not only show customer about sync, but to actually perform the syncing of the customers phone with the car through the blue tooth technology (this could be a safety requirement as well). It took less than a minutes to have the car discover my phone, up load my complete address book and get in a ready state for operations. You can give it a voice command calling the name directly from your phone book and it will make the call.

    I took some phone pictures of certain areas at http://www.me.com/gallery/#100013. You can down load them to take a closer peek if you wish. Some things to note:

    When I started the car the first time, the gas indicator computer said that it was 409 miles before E, but to get it to that point, you had to fill it to the brim. When I filled it up again, I got it up to 398 miles. Yes, I understand it will vary.

    They sticker shows the cost of operating (gas cost) was estimated at $4.10 a gallon at $3,227 bucks a year. The lowest price I have seen in my area was $2.85 a gallon. Lucky me for now (till next summer when gas will hit $10 bucks a gallon).

    I ordered the wood package and even though I wished they had done the center console, it still looks nice and accents the doors well with the wood on the dash. The rear doors are done as well.

    I also order the 20-inch high polished rims for this car. There is a cost for that because you feel it a little more on bumpy roads. It is not much, but depending on the bump, it can be noticeable. Warning, they are supposing to come out with some chrome rims. My dealership said that if they do not come on the vehicle, do not order them as an accessory. The cost for the transfer to chrome is just not worth it.

    I did order an additional key bob, wheels locks, and the MKS weather floor mats. I was not impressed with the floor mats and I believe an off market brand would be better.

    I am still learning all the features of the navigational package but I have learned quite a bit already. You can also dial on the screen to any number you wish. The gas price feature is cool also, but remember not all gas stations participate.

    I will have to agree the operational buttons in the center console are kinda small. For those who work on a laptop most of the day you may not notice the difference. Others, it may take a little getting use of the difference.

    Trunk is deep and the opening does question what you can put it in. More on that down the road.

    On the highway I was impressed with that 3.7 engine. It moves and does not play. It is very quite inside and sometime I had to struggle to hear the engine. On the flip side the 20-inch rims really give you control on the road. I believe it really assist on the responsiveness side.

    Even though I ordered the ultimate package and everything, the rear shade cover was not on this vehicle. I do not know why at this time.

    I have not done the Ipod thing yet and used the hard drive (other than installing my phone book) so I will provide more on this later. I will say the large screen is nice and the rear camera is great also when backing up. I did find myself struggling to trust it and looking at the mirrors mostly and using the camera as a double check.

    Well that’s it for now, If you have any questions, I will do my best to answer them for you. Thanks All :) :) :) :shades: :shades:
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,422
    Good to see you bought one. Lincoln chose almost the worst possible moment to try to turn things around, and they did it with a compromised entry...though the MKS (God I hate that name!) is fine compared to the direct competition.

    I feel very badly for this brand. 10 years ago, it was poised to really make waves. Now, we have to wonder if it will survive. Sad. People in control in almost all arenas (not just cars) made some very bad moves in th epast decade, and apparently learned nothing from the dot.com downturn and Worldcom and Enron. Ford made it through the depression. I hope they can do it again.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    The LS 430 is obsolete and it still is a better made car than the MKS which is a new design. How well will the MKS compare to the LS460?

    The Lexus is twice the money the MKS is - of course it's better made. But IMO, the MKS is a good car for the money, and very pleasing to drive.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2008/10/ecoboost-on-its.html#more

    More HP and better fuel economy than the 3.7 base engine - if true, the Ecoboost can't get here soon enough.
  • For the first time in my life, I am seriously considering a Lincoln. Being an old school kind of guy, I really hate numbers and letters for cars. MKS, MKZ, MKQ, MKK, KKK? It is hard for most people to differentiate and people who pay $30K plus like for others to know what they are driving. At least Lexus, MB and BMW use a progressive hierarchy in their nomenclature.
    Maybe they could change the MKS to Continental or Mark ??
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