Lincoln MKS

e_net_rider · November 2012

I had a 96 Olds Aurora with Bose and passed it on in 2009. Speakers were still fantastic, except weak on the bass end.
If your CTS is similar to 11 Lacrosse seats, you will start to feel every bit of hardware under the padding in time. A Fusion I test drove a couple of years back also had bad seats. Dealer Demo with only about 5K on it and those seats in my opinion were shot. At 28K, MKS, padding is many times better than Lacrosse at 12K, which is why I said I might replace it when it gets bad. Pro reviewers were spot on about the comfort level as luxury moved to cooled seats. I suspect the problem is finding a medium for use as the padding that does not block the air flow. Maybe GM and Chrysler will do better if they re-invent again.
With available time, and not driving but a little, I've yet to take in with brake issue. Nearing time for oil change, and getting 1 to 2 PSI leak fixed is a must. A darned nuisance since it changes the handling.
And now besides the brakes, a handling issue is popping. As in something loose in steering/suspension. It showed up in a definable way when braking, something I'd already been tuned in to because of that issue. Sometimes, when first applying brake, it does a little zig to the left. (could be braking) But as that continued, on several occasions I felt a simultaneous bump at the steering wheel, as in something being loose. I suspect it is coming from R Front. And I recall hearing a bit of a strange sound like a bearing whine the other day. It stopped by time I turned radio down.
The movements that occur with road tiny bumps and steering make me think Ford designed their suspension system to burn off the kinetic energy generated via lateral movements of the vehicle. Not inspiring to say at minimum but likely dangerous if such action is happening when contacting slippery surfaces. That motion could break traction or would be the equivalent of applying brakes when you are freely sliding on ice or snow.
I'm hoping it is just a case of something coming loose.
And then sometimes when exiting the vehicle, the steering wheel does not move up?
And the other day, the right rear door did not unlock when parked. Since passenger may have been pulling handle before parked I will have to watch and see on that one.

akirby · November 2012

Where did you see that the 2013 Fusion doesn't handle well? This is what Car and Driver said and they're usually the most critical about this:

The mood improves by measures once you start driving, though. The brakes are strong, the structure is stiff, and response to steering input is immediate. The suspension keeps body motions and head toss to a minimum even during spirited driving, and the impression is one of solidity, willingness, and capability. Overall grip levels feel high, too. The car is one of the best to drive in the class, perhaps only trailing the latest Honda Accord in overall goodness

How is that worse than the old model? Add in the MKZ's electronic suspension and it should be even better.

The new MKZ outclasses the new ES350 in all categories and that's the target here, not BMW or MB.

Relative to the current one it should be a big step forward and I would expect the same improvement across the board as the new vehicles roll out.

You don't need a dedicated RWD platform to be a successful luxury brand.

euphonium · November 2012

As I'm not a severe driver, I conclude the road feel, handling, & braking results in a very safe and comfortable motorcar. These three subjective qualities are usually at the mercy of the psuedo & wannabe road racer whose driving skills are below standard expectations for safety. :P

e_net_rider · November 2012

Cornering lights: Sure are nice when trying to avoid ruining a high priced low profile tire. Alternative, hoping they shine enough to the side, is the driving/fog lights. But a better switch is needed, like the GM one that is a tap on/off. Light under the hood? These days it is best to carry a flashlight and it will shine where you want it to.
Rear air shocks: I assume you mean load levelers and I agree.
Sound of a V8: I like quiet.
Backup camera: So far it has surpassed the Lacrosse by having good night vision and not having become blocked by exhaust condensation on a cool morning. But when functional, the GM seemed to have a bit wider angle and when activated the side mirrors moved down so you also saw the ground the tires were actually moving on. Also the distance stripes on screen moved with the steering wheel to show where you would actually be backing.
As to the rest, trunk pull down adequate. Superior sound yes. Eco, don't have. Nav, nice. Would love to try the Verizon millions of points of real time monitoring system and see it tied to this system. Self park, don't have. Paddle shift, yet to find the point, especially since you have to reach for the stick to change it. Adaptive Cruise, don't have, but obviously part of the intent, when you hold the cruise button for coast, less speed, it will force a downshift aiding in the speed adjustment.
More comfortable seats, AMEN. Maybe not the most comfortable seats ever, but since high end meant cooled seats, these are far more comfortable than other recent GM or Chrysler.
Thanks for the points.

e_net_rider · January 2013

Just this week, I've suddenly started having issues with phone connection. Phone fully charged. Sometimes it does not connect. And yesterday it got worse. It would not put call up to answer. I went into history and tried to call back. Hit send(dial) and nothing. It would not even mute music. Used commands and it worked fine up through muting. Then it would just hang up and return to music.
Any ideas as to what might be going on?

hey_tinkerbell · January 2013

Suggestion: try connecting your spouse's or kid's phone to determine whether it's the car or your phone that's the problem. If someone else's phone works, then it's likely a problem with your phone. If not, you can arm yourself with that ammunition when you go to the dealership and they insist it's not the car. Ask them to pair their phone up with the car or shut their trap and fix it

.

hey_tinkerbell · January 2013

I bought my new 2013 MKS about a month ago on 12-14-12, and I like it a little more every day. It moves effortlessly down the highway, the roominess and comfort are unbelievable, and it zips in and out of parking spaces just as easily as my old '08 CTS. The technology is a bit overwhelming, but I'm learning to appreciate it. The voice recognition system is frustrating...I need to learn how to speak slow-ly and e-nun-ci-ate each syl-la-ble...and even then sometimes I fail to connect with the system. I made the mistake of calling the handy 800 number in the manual when I was trying to figure out a Bluetooth issue...I have never, in my life, had a customer service rep try so hard to pass the buck. Now I know why my sales rep wants me to call him instead. While unusual to me, that is a workable solution. I do like the accident report information, and while I only ski about 3 days a year, having access to the current slope conditions is amusing. My gal pals all like the ability to select the ambient lighting from a rainbow of colors. The seats are very comfortable. I'm not thrilled with the a/c system, which may be a big issue in the summer months. I expect the fan to come on at full force when I first turn on the car to reach My Temperature as quickly as possible, and that doesn't happen. What good is the auto temp function if I have to manually adjust it? My guess is that it's set that way to help with fuel economy, which is really not that great. While I get around 21 mpg driving around the suburbs, its a bit less than my old Caddy, and I feel like I'm at the gas station all the time. I didn't buy the car for it's fuel economy though. The only other negative worth mentioning is how annoying the parking sensors are in the garage. OMG the incessant LOUD beeping when I try to pull out of the garage...and I'm pretty sure those garage walls, assumed by the car to be to be moving vehicles or people, aren't going to disappear any time soon.

Overall I'm really pleased with my purchase. Will I buy another Lincoln? Time will tell.

toomanyfumes · January 2013

I have the same issue with the back-up sensors in my Mustang pulling out of the garage. It would be nice if you could silence it without disabling the whole system.

akirby · January 2013

In the winter the fan doesn't come on full force right away because it would only be blowing cold air. It waits until the engine warms up enough to provide heat. It's actually smart. In the summer it will come on immediately with A/C if required.

euphonium · January 2013

Interesting to read your comments as they remind me of enduring the same beeping with our recently purchased '11 MKS. We bought it with 7,797 miles on it last August and went on a 2,000 mile trip into Canada. On one tank, we averaged 28+ mpg, but all the rest were in the mid 20's.

Recently, we had to drive 120 miles round trip for 7 consecutive days. We were on I-5 in WA going down to Clackamas, OR. It was 75 mph on I-5 and 70 in 405 and we averaged 24+ mpg.

We bought this car because we need an AWD to climb our snow laden road and driveway & after sitting in the '13 Taurus SHO, the CPO Lincoln was chosen due to the more elegent interior.

Compared to other Lincolns we've owned, I miss the Cornering lights, under hood light, Air shocks, AutoTrunk pull down, but the AWD & IRS make up for it.

So far, 13,500 miles and we are very satisfied with it.

hey_tinkerbell · January 2013

Well that is a very valid point, Akirby. I do live in central Texas, and the winters run rather mild here. My frame of reference is to my old '08 Caddy CTS's A/C system, which was truly superb. I ruled out Audis this past summer because their systems couldn't cool down their cars fast enough in the 100+ summer heat. Maybe the Lincoln's system is more refined...I shall hold off a final ruling until we hit the summer months. Thanks so much for your perspective.

hey_tinkerbell · January 2013

Euphonium - glad to hear you are getting some decent fuel economy. I have the base engine, not the Ecoboost, and given that Texas is largely flat and snow-free, I did not allow the salesperson to sell AWD to THIS "eskimo". A friend told me that the car should perform better once I get a few thousand miles on it. The worst gas mileage has been 16 - travelling from Houston to San Antonio on I-10 after Christmas into a strong headwind, with 4 people, fully loaded, and 3 bicycles strapped to the back. Hopefully all will improve from here.

I totally agree with you about the Lincoln having a more elegant interior than the Taurus, and don't understand when the car critics pan the MKS saying it's the same and the Taurus is $10K cheaper. My retort is that the Taurus is about the same price as the MKS once you option it similarly, but lacks the class, sophistication, and other amenities that come with owning a Lincoln. I'm not saying the Taurus is bad, but rather that I think it's ridiculous to say they're the same.

I'm not sure what cornering lights are...I have noticed that my MKS lights shift when turning. I had a Lincoln rental a few years back that would use hydraulics to close the trunk once you manually pulled it down to a certain point so that it wouldn't slam. I didn't really have much use for that...a button that would have automatically closed the trunk - I would have missed that, because it's really high. There's no place on the exterior to grab it firmly, and I'm scared I'm going to slam my wrist in there each time I use the loop inside to pull it down. Yes, auto-trunk-close would be a very nice feature indeed.

These are minor annoyances, some of which I expect I'll get used to over time, and some will grate on my nerves more each day.

Filing under "burying head in sand"...I hope this waterfall grille is here to stay. Not because I love it (I don't), but because I envy the timeless styling of Mercedes and BMW, masking the ability to gauge exactly how old your car is. Geez, for any Lincoln made in the last 5 years, I can tell you exactly what year it is just by catching a glimpse out of the corner of my eye.

e_net_rider · January 2013

Going to dealer today for service. The phone issue stopped.

e_net_rider · January 2013

A/C system. Not sure about what system current MKS use. 11 Lacrosse used an updated expansion valve system. Maybe because it has been known for many years that with home systems an expansion valve would boost efficiency by about 0.5 SEER. A significant saving over life of system. Also eliminates most of the time needed for system pressures to stabilize. Almost from start it would blow very cold air and cool even a heat soaked vehicle quickly. Until poor trouble shooting (GM method) had them open the freon system instead of fix the electronic issue.
My MKS does not cool as quickly. It has bigger interior and maybe more air leaks.

euphonium · January 2013

I'm not sure what cornering lights are

When the headlights are on & the turn signal is used, the cornering lights illuminate just to the edge of the turn so one can miss the ditch & hit the driveway in the fog.

The lights are mounted in the lower leading edge of the front fenders and can be quite bright when changing to brighter bulbs.

e_net_rider · January 2013

It seems they were reserved for high end vehicles such as Town Car or Cadillac, full sized rear wheel drive. On those big vehicles, they may have been as much as two feet back from the front of bumper.

brucelinc · January 2013

Hey_tinkerbell, I am glad you like the MKS. If your experience is like mine, you will continue to like it more.

Regarding the voice commands, mine has never missed a word. Check out the manual. If the 2013s are like mine, you can "train" it to recognize your voice better. That might help - especially if you speak Texan. That is NOT an insult! One of my co-workers is from Lubbock and I love listening to her!

As for the A/C, I think you will find it more than sufficient when the weather gets really warm. The cooled seats are great too. I never use the automatic setting because I do not want the fan to come on full blast - but that is just me.

I know you did not get the ecoboost, but for those who did and would like even more power, there are tuners who prepare custom tunes that provide more turbo boost, advanced ignition timing and transmission recalibration. I recently purchased a tune from Livernois Motorsports and OMG! The difference in performance is incredible, the transmission shifts better and the engine is still quiet and refined. Fuel economy is even improved if I keep my foot out of it.

Keep enjoying your car, Tinker!

e_net_rider · January 2013

Was at dealer for service yesterday. New MKS in showroom, 50 miles. It was not cleaned up so it showed the places I complained about earlier as hiding places for crud, pollen, road dust, leaves, etc. Those places being around doors, trunk opening, and hood areas.
They made a feeble attempt at improving the sealing on the 2013, or at least since the 2010. One of the door seals, front doors, is extended so it is supposed to seal the gap between the door and front fender. Nothing to stop the issue on the bottom of door or other areas. Also, they added a rubber strip to contact the bottom edge of the hood each side. As stated elsewhere, the seals used seem very inadequate.
Looking under the hood, I saw the UAW pride at work. That seal mentioned was not in one of the retaining holes. And near the front a push-pin that appears to be used for retaining headlight assembly, it was not pushed. That center piece of push-pin sticking straight up.
And to that new hood with that extended center piece curved downward to meet bumper, say higher insurance. If you had the misfortune of a minor bump on the front taking out grill, now it is the grill and a new hood plus colateral damage. I sat in it long enough to find the storage hole with door front of center console. Another stupid design. The shape and design is that you would intuitively push near the lower edge center to open. And do the same to close. But that is apparently a release button, unlike the ones in the overhead that automatically toggle between unlock/open and lock/closed.
Part of quality would be attention to detail, in all areas. That false pride needs to be removed if it says "Lincoln".

e_net_rider · January 2013

Even though no appointment necessary and they were extremely busy, they serviced and checked my brake issue, posted here earlier, and was not duplicated on a recent visit. Maybe I should have insisted upon driving another one myself.
I need to do a bit of background work myself since VIN does not pop the TSB that took place three days prior to my build or any recall. Appearance of rear rotors wear pattern has been the same as front prior to performing TSB for the front. That is the pads have/had not been making contact with the outer 1/4" of the rotor. If you understand the principles of torque, braking in this example, the outer portion would yield the most torque/braking.
Results of inspection showed 3mm pad left rear, 6+mm right rear. The front pads, new 5000 miles ago because of TSB, are also 6+mm. I'd say that obviously shows some brake issue to the rear. But not necessarily connected to my complaint of "reapplying brake within a couple of seconds of an apply results in less brake with hard pedal."
And of course I asked if they did a full bleed after replacing the front calipers per TSB. Naturally the answer was yes. I don't know what they did when it was in back, but the initial issue may be cured. Rolling out of the lot, first brake apply I thought I would bite the steering wheel. I don't recall it ever having that much braking. Will have to follow up on uneven pad wear.
But I'm (___) about something else. Having stopped elsewhere on the way home, as I returned to my vehicle the low in the sky sun revealed fine scratch marks. The only carwash this vehicle has ever been through is a touchless and after a couple of tries I found that does not get clean. So I hand wash starting with a pressure washer to remove any grit that might be stuck. As part of their service, they hand wash. They are obviously sloppy because I washed just one week ago. It had already accumulated pollen on the exterior. The interior clearly demonstrates their bad technique. The glass was wiped with a cloth having dirty water leaving muddy water spots. That is, they used the same materials on my vehicle that they washed prior vehicles that were so dirty they looked like they traveled the back roads of Georgia. And that plastic door keypad? Those of you who wear eyeglasses and don't opt for the hardened plastic, you will best understand what it now looks like. For those that don't, you never ever use anything but proper cleaning solution and lens paper. Even a Kleenix tissue will scratch plastic.

e_net_rider · January 2013

I agree on voice. It rarely misses, at least for phone. I don't use it for my music on HDD because it is beyond capacity of system. It flat tells me, "index is full" followed with "USB device has too many for voice commands." Hopefully this is something they will expand upon in the future since that HDD is not full at 500 GB and I have another 1 TB that I've added to my collection on the computer.
The quality of this sound system is good enough to appreciate very high bit rate or lossless music. Using lossless CODEC approximately cuts in half the storage space needed by a CDA.

unitedkingdom · January 2013

Why did you re-tune the car when with the added cost of retuning you would have been able to purchase a BMW 5 series vehicle? You also would have a vehicle that holds it resale very well. Here after 3 yrs, the BMW has about 72 % of its purchase price. The after market re-tuning on your Lincoln does nothing to add to the resale value of your car. Also how does this re-tuning affect the vehicle's warranty?

How happy could you be if you had to after market re-tune the vehicle? I would have done some research on the vehicle before buying to determine if the car's road manners where on par with my performance expectations.

brucelinc · January 2013

Hmmm....unitedkingdom, how can I say this politely? I will put it this way: I do not give a rat's [non-permissible content removed] about BMWs or resale value.

I only have a mild interest in warranties but I am fully aware that if my modification causes a mechanical problem, it is MY problem. That is a chance I am willing to take after doing considerable research, visiting with the tuner and chatting with hundreds of SHO owners who have done tuning much more aggressive than I have. Many of those SHO owners put their cars on the dragstrip on a regular basis and abuse them far beyond what I ever would.

As for satisfaction prior to tuning, the stock ecoboost MKS vastly exceeded my expectations. A 4400 pound car with AWD that would go from 0-60 in around 5 seconds and still deliver high 20s MPG on the highway was superior to what I expected. An aftermarket tune, admittedly with some risk, has exceeded my expectations even further. If I had not been extremely satisfied with the car in stock condition, I would have replaced the car - not spent money on it for a custom tune.

Thanks for your interest.

nvbanker · January 2013

The usual fix for this is a reboot of the phone, and if that doesn't fix it, reboot the car. (disconnect and reconnect the battery). I'm betting that will fix it completely.

hey_tinkerbell · January 2013

I was given a moronic response like this when I called Ford about something Bluetooth-related (please note that I think the response is moronic; I do not think nvbanker or any specific person at Ford is moronic).

It's an oxymoron to expect a luxury car owner to ever have to disconnect anything on their car themselves. Such acts are reserved for '83 Plymouth Horizon owners et. al.

Ford needs to ban such recommendations so they are not repeated in forums lime this. Hope I'm not alone in this opinion.

toomanyfumes · January 2013

The dealer where I purchased my '12 Mustang has a "clinic" every Thursday where they explain the sync and touch systems and make sure your phone works with your car. Not sure if this is just good service or a response to issues with the myfordtouch system. The salesman did mention how difficult it was to explain myfordtouch to an elderly customer.

e_net_rider · January 2013

My mistake. After looking more closely at my vehicle, I see it has the seal at front door to contact front fender. It ovbiously does nothing to aid in stopping grime from getting into door cavities. And mine also has seals at side of hood, but they are much shorter than the ones on '13.
And I stopped by dealer to address the terrible clean up. The man I needed to talk to on some issues was not present. I returned that high priced Snap-on tool left in my vehicle. Since my car was thoroughly cleaned by self only a week earlier, it is rather discouraging that they used probably a cloth wet with dirty water to clean interior. One of the very tell tale places is the rear window. That brown water collected near the defroster strips and left a parallel row of dark spots at each wire. They then also topped off my low coolant with "water" from a dirty jug. Not real low, but at the low cold line when hot.
Next week I will have to go back to see what they say about other issues, especially the long near straight scratches in top coat on hood and trunk and probably everywhere else. The ones on the hood look like something was worked from the side of the vehicle that had grit on it and either someone with very long arms to move it in such long straight lines or a pole attached.

euphonium · January 2013

A luxury car does not make a luxurious owner. As a light weight non professional mechanic with a '11 Lincoln MKS I look forward to performing basic steps in maintaining this car as I've done with the following:
95 T Bird; 94 Lincoln Town Car; 82 Town Car; 80 Town Car; 73 Ford Squire; 67 Ford Country Sedan; 66 Mustang GT (still own it) 60 Corvair; 57 Plymouth; 53 Chev Bel Air & 39 Chev Sedan.

Some of the best race car drivers were mechanics first.

Did I mention my V8 Sea Ray runabout?

jowillie · January 2013

I needed a road car that wouldn't wear me out on long trips. I shopped them all since I had an open budget (but I didn't want to get crazy). The MKS delivers more than advertised. Don't confuse issues. This is a "ride" not a sports car. I was surprised at the power and agility that it does have. Decent milage and a back massager. Take the time to learn the MySync. Live with it a while and you'll appreciate all it can do. Don't make false comparisons. This car does exactly what it was designed to do...and does it well.

e_net_rider · January 2013

You Did not say what year or equipment. I agree to a large part. I still want HUD. I suspect the stabilization option is expensive and would have to test it to see what advantages it might have over an Olds Aurora suspension.

jowillie · January 2013

2013 MKS. Stabilization package comes with the deal. The Lincoln continuously controlled damping (CCD) continuously adapts to road conditions. It gives you a choice of 3 ride set-ups: Comfort (and it is), Normal (drives like a Taurus to me--and that's good), Sport (solid--like a train on rails). I select "Comfort" for my "D" position on the shifter, and "Sport" for the "S" position. I drive over the mountains on some of my trips and when I drop to the "S" it becomes a whole different car. The steering response is quicker and the transmission stays in lower gears for control (you do have paddle shifters if needed) and the suspension really tightens up.

nvbanker · January 2013

I agree it should not have to be done - but if you want to fix it sans an appointment with the dealer and all that inconvenience - reboot the car.

It ain't just Ford, BTW, my BIL is moronic enough to own a new Malibu that frequently goes into limp mode on trips. His suggestion from Government Motors is to "reboot the car" the same way. Sure enough, it works. Beats calling a tow truck once a month.

euphonium · January 2013

Was Stabilization offered on the 2010, 11, & 12 models or is 2013 its first year?

Kirstie_H · January 2013

Is that the "reduced engine power" message? We have a whole discussion dedicated to that problem on GM vehicles. If so, it'd be interesting to hear how to go about re-booting. Edit: I see now that it's disconnect/reconnect battery.

e_net_rider · January 2013

Kirstie, sometimes it might call for that drastic disconnect. The 09 Malibu and electronic toy laden 11 Lacrosse required, "pull over, shut down, restart." Regardless, that is unacceptable. So far, 28K miles, no such issue with my MKS. At least not for major items such as traction control, electric power steering, and the entire navigation system. I did do it one time for bluetooth phone and it worked, but that may have been an anomaly. I noticed the couple of times I had a bluetooth phone connect issue that the phone was only half charged which may have led to a weak signal. And some having phone connect issues should obviously try another phone. Besides bluetooth 2.0, 2.1, 3, & 4, etc. there are classes within each of them. Three I think, and that indicates the distance it will cover. I have a 2.0 device within the class that is good to over 100 feet. So far I have not been able to find any devices of that class for Bluetooth 3 or 4.
Is there a spec that tells what Bluetooth class and version is used in these vehicles?

e_net_rider · January 2013

I don't know what they did at dealer for my complaint of hard pedal, poor braking, if pedal was reapplied within a couple of seconds, but they noted the rear pads were worn very uneven. One side at 3mm and the other at 6+mm. They said they lubed the caliper slides, but pretty sure it was more than that. And likely involves TSB that was for brake drag on rear for 09 & some 10.
After the service, I now have to be a bit more cautious and readjust my driving when stopped in traffic. Letting up on the brake, the vehicle starts rolling. I don't want to bump anyone, but also appears to demonstrate brake drag was present. And so far it appears I've gained about 0.8 MPG on local driving. Good braking, good news. Better gas mileage, good news.

e_net_rider · March 2013

Rockauto now has a available a carbon impregnated replacement by ATP. Avoid the NAPA 4068 EnviroSheild, it is treated with Biosheid 75 and emits a lungs and eyes irritant as well as an odor. Look at Biosheild website. The chemical works because it has many tiny spikes on molecule that puncture cell of microbial and very likely human cells as well. I certainly can not think of a reason it would not. It may also cause itching.

e_net_rider · April 2013

Last time in they replaced pads and a caliper and turned rotors on rear at 28,000 miles. I'm a bit unhappy that they turned instead of replaced which means when the rears are up for service it will mean new rotors out of my pocket instead of just turning. The reason was odd wear on rotors, not to the outside edge, an apparently drag since one side was worn more than 3 mm more than opposite side.
I also have been noting for a long time a bit of instability in suspension effecting tracking unless on glass smooth road. Gave me the impression of someone not professional at using a Pogo stick.
Now 29,948 miles, when braking I feel the vehicle point left a small amount and return when brake is released. Brake drag? Possibly but it gets more complicated. The Pogo stick control has advanced to the point that it is worrisome for keeping it between the lines traveling with traffic. It gives me the impression of loose joints on arms, bad ball joints, or loose wheel bearings. Really hard to say if one cornered causing all of it or it is all four corners.
If that is not enough instability, add in that I'm now feeling slight play on input side of rack. (I think this vehicle uses rack and pinion) On older vehicles that had power steering strong enough to hold against road bump input, this likely would not be an issue. With this setup and not perfectly smooth road I have to constantly adjust to keep it between the lines and even get slower than prevailing traffic.
Has anyone run into these issues, individually or in combination? I'm not sure what is going on, only that it is becoming very disconcerting.

Recap: Car takes a slightly left heading when brake applied and returns when brake released. Brakes or bearings or suspension?
Car feels unstable as a small bump catches one tire and seems to pass that energy to the other corners in an unvertical fashion. Bushings, joints, or what?
Steering input has slight play allowing or adding to wandering on the road. Rack and pinion (too much play between rack and pinion gears), play in U-joints on steering shaft, or play in steering column shaft?
Someone please tell me they did not use that same crappy shaft tensioner they used on all the Taurus except first generation. Those vehicles had more holding by the power steering than this one so if they used the same junk it is little wonder it is failing by 30,000 miles. Those Taurus would fail for me around 60,000 miles. That is three of them. The first generation used spring steel clips and was still good at 150,000 miles. The rack and tie-rod ends had failed on it. All of the earlier generations of Taurus used the same design stabilizer bar links on front. And they all would fail early because of the poor quality of rubber boots. The boots would desintegrate allowing dirt and moisture in wearing the joints out.

Any input will be helpful.

toomanyfumes · April 2013

That pull to the left when you apply the brake. Does the temp make a difference? My 2012 Mustang does this, especially when I first drive the car and it's cold out, but it doesn't feel like the usual brake pull, I think it might be the electric power steering. My car only has 6000 miles. I talked to a co-worker who has a 2013 Escape, he has a similar issue.
It's not enough of a bother that I have gone back to the dealer, it seems much better now that the weather's warmer.

e_net_rider · May 2013

Temp not connected to my issue.
Although temp changes can affect some issues, example, ice forming adding unbalanced weight, a grease or lubricant that has been applied unequally from wheel to wheel and is stiffer when colder. Coefficient of expansion might cause some rare situations especially where there is a difference of material at a connection point or nexis. Example, ABCM, the electro-mechanical portion. If engineering did not properly design for temperature extremes including allowable tolerances of machining or fit, the housing being of one material, bored for pistons that actually controll the fluid/pressure to individual calipers, one of the pistons might be at the maximum allowable design tolerance and it binds when the temperature reaches a certain point. That would give uneven brake apply.
One thing for sure, with the addition of ABCM, that is anti-lock, traction control portion, stability, the brake system has become a lot more complex. Just because you feel a pull to the left when braking, you can no longer assume it is the caliper on the right not applying, but possibly a malfunction in the ABCM or its control module or a sensor.
Is it the same on all road surfaces? Make sure tire pressure is even, at least within 1/2 PSI of each other. Has a RFB, road force balance been done. They are really good at eliminating tire issues. But just rotating tires, because of existant wear patterns, can alter how the vehicle feels, even if there is not eye-ball detectable difference. If the problem moves after rotation, then it is likely tire/wheel related.
What temps? Why do you think EPS?
As with mine, if you are rolling straight and stays straight when releasing steering wheel, however applying brake veers toward oncoming traffic, it is braking related. But bad/loose part in suspension, a bad wheel bearing, could be shifting under the force of braking resulting in the veering to a side. Still, you say temp related so I'd chase that to the end.

e_net_rider · May 2013

Update. Talked to Lincon, they say I can take to any Ford Lincoln. Checked a couple of alternative dealers and decided to pass on local ford since they also use rent a wreck if you car stays and use a third party mop and bucket for clean up. Went to next closest Ford Lincoln. Mechanic said he did not see problem. Test drove with service writer, he did not see, but offered his boss. Boss said issue was with road surface and run-around. If it was the road, then we needed to drive on a different road. He mentioned something about road crown and felt it was going no where I left. But a couple of miles down the road I tried braking a few times in right and left lane, high point being to left and more slope in right lane. Against what I would have thought, the veer to the left was worse in the right lane. Say What? I turned around. Now out to lunch, then more run-around, and talk to his boss who happens to be at lunch. I wait. Surprise, at that time a Lincoln rep is there, we ride, he drives, yes there is a problem. Great, at least an admission. But he insists not brakes and wants align check. OK, it is out a bit, tow on front and rear, creating a slight angle. So aligned, my pocket, and problem still exists. The align has reduced the poor straight line control on bump, four-corner bouncing, and the bad effect of steering input play since it is likely applying less pressures against the steering dampening. And tires will need to settle to new settings.
It looks like they only touched toe settings. Camber and caster settings read the same, within tolerances, but definitely not centered on ranges.
Waiting on call back from Lincoln rep since they said they'd pass message, but I won't bet on it. (He bet align would take care of problem)

e_net_rider · May 2013

Tried a troubleshooting thing yesterday that I had been absent minded over, probably because it worked for the hard pedal issue somewhat diagnosis. And in my mind it showed improper brake bleed after front brake repair then showing hard pedal and poor braking on sequential braking attempts. Almost certain improper brake bleed led to improper function of ABCM. And they would not do improper brake bleed a second time when rear brakes were worked on? Right?
My improper brake bleed affecting centering of pistons/parts internal to ABCM is just a guess since I don't have actuall details of parts.

But, I started that brake pedal press as far as possible while stopped. Note, the first time the pedal slowly settled to limit like a leaking piston cup in a master cylinder would. I've done this about three times so far and after the first one I could tell a tremendous decrease of the vehicle trying to dart toward oncoming traffic. As of yesterday afternoon, it almost was gone. And so far, after each improvement it was not working back toward the worse end of situation. I will be passing that info back to those who did not see a problem.

euphonium · May 2013

Bleeding the brakes is to get rid of H2O &/or air in the lines. As a result of your pedal pressing, where did the H2O and air in the lines go? :confuse:

e_net_rider · May 2013

Bleeding does more than just remove air or moisture.
Hydraulic brakes stated as a simple master cylinder and slave system. With front and rear slaves at some point mechanisms were introduced such as proportioning valves. An equal force to the rear brakes would result in rear brakes locking up creating a dangerous skid. A simple form with piston and springs allowed a maximum amount of fluid pushed to rear while more pressure/pedal could be applied to front. A better method employed by Mazda for a number of years before Ford adopted (earlier Taurus and others) was a pressure control mechanism that varied rear brakes according to weight on rear axle. It was at rear axle with an arm and link between body and axle. More weight on rear, the arm moved more allowing greater braking on rear. At a time maybe 60's vehicles started using what was dubbed safety brakes. Part of that was the dual in-line pistons of the master. If one failed the other took over usually with less braking. Variations on this occured with springs between the piston & cup of each portion. Some sent fluid from one piston to front, the other rear. Some vehicles crossed that relation with pressure from one piston going to one front brake and diagonal rear brake.
Eventually the standard seemed to be a dual master cylinder plus a separate diverter and proportioning valves. Some combined the proportioning and diverter into a single assembly. Part of diverter, along with sending fluid to each brake, included valving/pistons to prevent total failure such as a burst line. The sudden flow toward that slave would overcome the spring allowing piston to at least partially block total loss of pressure allowing other three brakes to provide some braking.
Air in system, bad news, it compresses. Sometimes small amounts of air get past rubber/neoprene sealing cups at pistons. Line routing can minimize migration away from problem area. Often that seal is damaged because of corrosion resulting from moisture in fluid. Brake fluid absorbs water from air, leave a container of it open and observe over weeks. Mercedes had as part of its scheduled maintenance a requirement to annually bleed brakes and every two years replace fluid. Non-corroding parts have helped eliminate that need, but water boils much lower than brake fluid.
A whole new era with anti-lock brakes, traction control, and electronic stability control. Most now look like a dual-master, four slaves, and the ABCM between the master and slaves. ABCM being controlled by computer that determines proper output from various sensors.
That ABCM reminds me of the valve body from an automatic transmission pre-electronic control. A nightmare of channeling to route fluid/pressure to the appropriate point, a check valve, springs and plungers, mechanical solenoids, pressure sensors, dividers, adders, multipliers, on and on. Electronics have removed much of that, but still the system needs to stay in balance for what might be non-computer control braking. The computer sits idle until it realizes a situation such as one wheel not turning or it has only one wheel turning.
Regardless of added computer safety factors, the objective is proper braking without the computer having to take over.
I can not speak specifically to the ABCM in this vehicle, but some earlier ones with the internal bores, pistons, and springs to provide proper fluid to each brake, had a piston and springs, even pistons with springs between, which generally controlled fluid for a pair of brakes, so at least two such bored cut into cavity of ABCM. The piston or pistons needed to be centered within the bore and may not have been self centering or doing so after an improper brake bleed or the burst line situation scenario mentioned earlier as part of divertor valve discussion.
Will a brake bleed fix my issue? Maybe, maybe not, but it seems a logical step in diagnosing. Much like a vehicle that does not track properly, if visual inspection shows nothing, you might rotate tires or alignment check.

I only point up all the extra detail to show how confused I am.
Bottom line, vehicle will dart toward left upon brake apply. I know this is dangerous and would like to get it resolved without tearing the vehicle apart, but to do nothing because they can not pinpoint the problem is wrong.

euphonium · May 2013

Thank you for the education.

e_net_rider · May 2013

Little I know and fwiw. Update, cruising interstate something felt off and I took a close look at steering wheel. Turns out that bunch at OC Welsh are incapable of a proper alignment because the wheel is now clockwise of center. I got that service followup call yesterday and told them of that and the brake problem. Again asked if I wanted to trade. And then told not to bring back. And still waiting on callback from Lincoln.
:mad:

euphonium · June 2013

Have you had to replace the Power Takeoff Unit or replaced the seals in your MKS?

quiltingal · June 2013

No, I haven't had to. But had to replace Cabin filter.

hey_tinkerbell · November 2013

Uh oh, and yes you read that correctly. 11 months and 11K miles into my 2013 MKS ownership, and my car died yesterday WHILE I WAS DRIVING IT and would not restart. This is less than a week after having my 10K service at the dealership and the fuel delivery module replaced under Recall ID # 13V227000. Lincoln Roadside Assistance was very helpful and managed to get my car towed to the dealership within 90 minutes of my call on a Sunday, although I was glad I had someone to take me home during the wait time because it was 36 degrees outside. The electrical system worked and I could hear the starter firing, but nothing was happening with the engine. The brake felt "frozen" and though it's been decades since I had to deal with a problem car (the last time I bought a Ford product, ironically), I have to say that this is a very bad omen. Lincoln called first thing this morning and said instead of a loaner car, their goal was to get my car fixed and back to me this morning. When I pointed out that having your car die while you're driving it is a significant safety issue, and it would be my preference for them to keep the car until they're 100% sure they know what's wrong with it, the service advice advisor agreed about the "safety issue thing" but reiterated that they want to get my car back to me instead of giving me a loaner, but he agreed to be completely sure first. Meanwhile, I'm stranded at home. I'm guessing they screwed something up when they serviced the car a week ago.

Anyone have ideas of what the problem could be? What if the dealer messed my car up last week? How am I going to know if what they "repaired" caused irreparable damage to other systems in my car?

hey_tinkerbell · November 2013

Update: Found the answer. The dealer said that the fuel level sending unit on the new fuel delivery module wasn't working, which means that my the fuel level on my dashboard stopped working, and I ran out of gas.

Based on information provided on a dealer Q&A from Ford, my belief is that the new fuel delivery module was sent without the fuel level sending unit, and the service department forgot to transfer the sending unit to the new part as directed in Q11 on the last page of the document here: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM439329/RCMN-13V227-59- 07.pdf.

Given that 390,783 cars were affected, I hope that Ford/Lincoln pays more attention to its other customers than what I received. I am very lucky that I wasn't speeding down the highway with my two children in tow when this happened.

akirby · November 2013

Sounds to me like they forgot to tighten a connection somewhere and it worked loose. That would also explain why they're able to fix it so quickly. I wouldn't worry about any long term issues.

Lincoln MKS

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