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Lincoln MKS

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Comments

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    WOW, no comment ! :D

    Rocky
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    George; Rocky owns and drives a Mustang currently - I don't think he's married to just one brand.
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    Well I'm going to kick up a whole bunch of stuff here, but oh well. I think the MKS is a poor attempt to copy lexus. ANd After they did such a nice job with the decent looking MKZ. The only way for Lincoln to make somewhat of a comeback is to be bold, daring and different.I want someone to tell me different. Look at cadillac. How did they do it? And now I, like so many others, want a Cadillac. (so to speak).
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    The MKS, looks more like a Acura, than a Lexus. I for one if I was a regular JOE, would rather keep $10-15K
    (if I didn't have a GM discount) in my pocket and own a MKS. The MKS, will have a better quality interior, have at least as much horsepower as the STS, and beats it in technology for a whole lot less couch change. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    George; Rocky owns and drives a Mustang currently - I don't think he's married to just one brand.

    My wife had the Mustang, when I married her. Her dad bought it for her before she graduated H.S. So technically I never bought a Ford. I did buy a 96' Dodge and a 05' Acura. Both of which were first non-gm cars for me. My current loyalty goes to GM, and Ford, since they are the last survivors of the domestics. My next new vehical is 100% likely to be one of the brands under those 2 car company's.

    Rocky
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    As you wish, but it's a matter of splitting hairs what is domestic and what isn't. Ford has drawn a whole lot of design (engines, architecture) from across other borders and companies. And it builds a slew of cars in Mexico and Canada. Last time I checked, those were still other countries. And Ford has invested entirely too much money--with few good results--in the offshore operations of PAG.

    I understand the drive some people have to buy American. However, if the product cannot compete on its own merits no matter where it hails from, then the buy American effort is doomed over time. We all know that greed and complacency and arrogance and unions that lost their purpose and way all conspired to cripple the big 3.

    GM has made real progress in the last year. Ford seems to be moving in the right direction now. Chrysler has the right products, but was arrogantly overproducing them in the past year. Another year should tell if Ford's careful, qualified "bold" moves are accomplishing anything big.

    If they all start to build products people really want over the competition, then incentives won't be a big factor. Look at Toyota. If the product isn't hot, it is either produced in smaller numbers or eliminated. Updates and redesigns come like clockwork. New directions are taken. They have even had success with boring styling, although thankfully they are moving away from that.

    I'd rather buy a Ford product for no other reason than I liked them as a kid. Nine of the 27 vehicles I have owned have been Ford products. But obviously, I buy what appeals, regardless of the brand. More and more other people do too.

    I note Rocky that you said "likely," which is a prudent qualification. You aren't old enough and rigid enough to buy only one or two brands, without doing any other comparisons.
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    The MkS looks like no acura on the streets. And though I don't like RL, TL looks awesome!!! If I was a regular JOE, I'd save even more and buy a Chrysler 300C. I do not think MKS beats STS in snything but size. THe STS should get an interior update soon, and what technology does lincoln have? Plus, that STS looks great, and is a real sports sedan and not some Ford poser. Price wise, they should be neck and neck (at least until V-8, then ford knows no one will pay over 45 g)
  • The biggest issue is that with only one exception, no one seems at all impressed with either the looks or mechanics of the MKS.

    And it won't go into production for 2-3 more years!

    If everyone is yawning about how boring and irrelevant your product 3 years before it appears- you have real problems. (See: Ford Five Hundred)

    Luckily, Ford now admits they have problems and hopefully they will throw the MKS in the trash and start from scratch.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    I know. It's amazing to me that they're still pushing this thing as their future 'flagship' when it's been so thoroughly panned everywhere. The autoextremist was particularly harsh on it and he seems to really know his stuff.

    I actually could see something like the S as a car that slots UNDER their flagship, which would be something closely resembling the Continental concept. Hell , they could even build it on the Panther chassis and it would outsell the Town Car by lots. I think anyway.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I'd rather buy a Ford product for no other reason than I liked them as a kid. Nine of the 27 vehicles I have owned have been Ford products. But obviously, I buy what appeals, regardless of the brand. More and more other people do too.

    Likewise - the majority of my cars have been Ford products - however even I, an avowed buy American guy, and Ford guy, won't drive stuff I don't like. When Lincoln ruined the Town Car (1998, IMO), and I needed a Sedan, I went where I believe the best product and value were - Lexus. If Ford were to really revive the Town Car and make it a quality, modern and luxurious car again, they could get me back. I am even tempted to drive a Cadillac, even though I was greatly irritated with prior Cadillacs in the 80's, however, the Cadillac they make that is comfortable to me, is the DTS, and it's still FWD, which I don't care for. Cadillac has made great improvements, however their interiors are lacking in luxury to me, as is the Town Car.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I note Rocky that you said "likely," which is a prudent qualification. You aren't old enough and rigid enough to buy only one or two brands, without doing any other comparisons.

    Let me re-phrase that. I 100% guarantee my next new vehical will be a General Motors or Ford automobile brand. ;)

    I support unions, and want to buy from a domestic manufactor. The only exceptions would be a Saab or Volvo, but then again GM, Ford, get the money. Those workers are also unionized and can support their family's. I owned a Acura TL, once and won't ever do that again even though I liked the car. The service I recieved was the worst experience I ever had and thankfully I won a good chunk of change for all my problems. ;)

    I'm looking at a 1990' 25th Ann. Ford Mustang 7-UP convertible. If all goes well tomorrow I should buy it and have it here within 3-4 days. Since I plan on buying this car for cash, I will probably further delay buying a brand spankin new car since I will have a lot cheaper toy, and can concentrate on a new house. I also tomorrow or the next day am going to purchase a 2000' Buick Century for $4K. It was my wifes grandma's car. She passed a few months ago

    However if the rest of my plans come togeather, I won't rule out buying a new 2009' suv, truck, car, like the MKS. I think the Mustang, for now will cure my new car itch for awhile and my plan is to keep it forever and pass it down to one of my 2 kids. ;)

    Lincoln, in a few years will have the models I like on the market. Cadillac, will have a CTS-V. However unless the
    CTS-V is that great, I no longer need to have a sports car. The MKS will be a luxury car though something I won't have. My wife told me though if I get the Stang, she gets a SUV. :surprise: She wants me to buy her a new Cadillac Escalade hybrid, or Lincoln Mark LT, or Navigator. :surprise:

    Oh brother......The boss speaks, I might have to listen ! :blush:

    Rocky
  • "I'm looking at a 1990' 25th Ann. Ford Mustang 7-UP convertible. If all goes well tomorrow I should buy it "

    Might be a collector's item.
    All the 25th Anniv. models were 1989's so a 1990 version is pretty rare, or it's the ultra-rare 26th Anniversary Edition.
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    Finally someone gets my drift!!! Not many want a boring car! For that price range I'll just get a BMW 5, or Caddy STS. Or Even a Lexus GS (for all those who do like the styling)! It's not that I don't like the car, It's just it should have come out 4-5 years ago! Styling's too old.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I do not think MKS beats STS in snything but size. THe STS should get an interior update soon, and what technology does lincoln have?

    The STS V-8 AWD, beats the Lincoln in price $66-67K for a copy, Uses a old engine, with only minor updates *yawn*. Speaking of interior quality the MKZ, has a heck of alot better interior than the $30K more expensive STS. What an embarrassment. The MKS, has as much gadgetology as the STS, at a cheaper price. The rumor is the MKS, during it's current rework is suppose to be recieving even more technology. Perhaps some stuff from Volvo like Bliss ?

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    My aunt had one and on the dash it says 25 years on it. Yes only 4K something were made and only 1k and something were 5-speeds.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    Uses an old engine
    Hold on there patner! Ford has yet to develope a sizeable engine that can put out more than 300 hp. and the STS has what? 330? It will handle so much better. And the Caddy's interior- which should be updated in a year or so- is nice. Not the best, but better than some current Lincolns. But like i said, we don't have to go red vs. blue. Most people i know would rather drive a lexus GS than this thing. But some of that may be that no one wants to be driving Ford right now! Let me tell you something and I want everyone to hear:
    Lexus, and only Lexus does Lexus right. NOt FORD, NOt Infinity (though theyv'e done well breaking away), no one! THe style looks plain on this LIncoln. Go Bold. look at some past concepts. USe the styling of the MKX for God sake. Don't make make me bring up the 300C. BUt I know fords already looking hard at CHrysler. right before 500 debut, Ford's head of design said 500 looks as good as and will sell better than 300. Ford still hasn't gotten it!
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    Maybe they can go look at all the 2006 300Cs sitting in parking lots in Detroit.

    Just to be fair, the mustangs NA 4.6L SOHC engine actually puts out around 320 hp. It's underrated.
  • arumagearumage Posts: 922
    The STS is available with 320hp, but it's standard engine is just 255hp. Ford's already producing more than that with the 3.5L V6 motor without direct injection or any valve-train modification. If they do add twin-turbo's (which virtually eliminates lag), I believe they can still undercut Cadillac in price and outperform them as well. With the V8 (not the STS-V) and the performance package, it runs over $60k. Ford will surely undercut that. I don't think the styling on the MKS is any less bland than the STS either.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    I don't think the styling on the MKS is any less bland than the STS either. That sure is a stunning endorsement (the MKS is no worse than...)
  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    The STS is certainly not bland. I like it. But there are many who don't. So I will say this: Any one who sees this car knows 2 things. 1: it's bold. 2:It's no xerox. like i said, i do like Lexus style. Just not on a lincoln. And a poor attempt at that. But truthfully, If you want great styling and a decent interior (it's not great but okay) you know there is nothing else but the 300. and with 340 hp and the price of the 300C, It kills lincoln easily. It's nice not to look like everyone else in toyonda styling. Chrysler has sales to prove it.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    I too liked the traditional Town Car of 1997 and earlier. You may like the CTS, if you don't mind a little less than world class interior. I bet they don't squeek like the '80s Cadillac after a few year. They really do look tight, with very good reviews and reliability. What is your take on the LS? They had a RWD car to compete with Caddy, but dropped it. Seemed like no effort to change the looks or the advertising, it simply faded away like the Camaro did. I like the idea of a pretty good handling car for Lincoln. Why didn't they spruce up the looks a bit?

    OK, a bit off subject. 1997 vs 1998 Town Car - your pick '97. What ya think of Mustang 2004 vs 2005? In my research I have found at least a couple to three reasons to like the one people seldom pick as one I would buy. Reliability, cost of repair, looks, simplicity, initial cost, interior dash, to name a few -- OK more than a couple for sure, to me goes to the '04 model year. But I am a sucker for the looks of the 1994 model too. They say it is too rounded. Hummm, a sports car too rounded??? I owned a '65 and it was OK, but preferred the '67 or '69 models. Owned an '85, but without the V8 -so sad. Looked pretty good, though not to much of a hatchback fan for that model. The new look is not too bad, but looks a bit replicar, and a bit pudgy heavy, without a lot of jazz.

    Please, make the Cougar something new looking -- some chrome of days-gone-bye too, would help. Or hey, how about a sporty car for Lincoln, if it still has a pulse left in the old brand?
    -Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Right, the STS needs to be changed style wise. A longer, more bland, toned down to no style version of the CTS is simply wrong. It is however RWD. The MKS is a non-contender to the CTS or STS. Now they could challenge Audi or Acura. -Loren
  • arumagearumage Posts: 922
    AWD, when properly engineered, can provide a similar performance experience to RWD, with better launch due to less wheelspin and better all-around traction, but it would have a slightly lower top speed. It wouldn't be as fun to drive as RWD unless they made it "tossable", like a Subaru though.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I too liked the traditional Town Car of 1997 and earlier.

    It wasn't just the outside that I liked better in the 97, it was mostly the interior. They went from beautiful to bland, and then went downhill from there as the materials lost quality...

    You may like the CTS, if you don't mind a little less than world class interior.

    I NEVER liked the CTS. The STS I can stand. The interior in both of them is awful to me.

    What is your take on the LS?

    The LS was world class when it came out in 00. But it was mostly Jaguar underneath, and therefore expensive to make. At the Lincoln price point they could sell it at, it wasn't profitable, so it was just kind of quietly made, and neglected. A restyle would have been lovely, inside and out, but they already had too much engineering and money invested in it, to restyle it would make it more unprofitable again, unless they could get about $10,000 more for it. I loved how it drove, but it was too small for me, too low to the ground, and not the best looker on the road either.

    What ya think of Mustang 2004 vs 2005?

    I had a 91 GT Convertible, which I dearly loved. Unfortunately, my son nearly totalled it 4 times. It was much tougher than one would have thought. The last time, I told the dealer to fix it and sell it for me at the auction. It was done for.

    I choose the 05 over the 04 though, hands down. It's retro - but more than that, it's a beautiful design to me. With the leather package inside, it's even bordering on luxurious.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    "The LS was world class when it came out in 00. But it was mostly Jaguar underneath, and therefore expensive to make. At the Lincoln price point they could sell it at, it wasn't profitable,..."

    Put down the Kool-Aid, nv. We had the Lincoln VP of marketing on this very board a month or two ago deny this claim when he said the LS was profitable when he was there (2000 thru 2002 or 3 model years.)

    I still marvel at the classic lines and proportions of my LS from the side view. The front os nice, the rear not the best.
  • pnewbypnewby Posts: 277
    Even with the "early build" problems I encountered, it was the most fun of any car I ever purchased. I still can't believe the 252 HP in my '00 V8 would outrun anything on the street I came up against. With jroger19 on the board, it was the best experience I have ever had with an automobile, and I doubt that something like that will ever happen again. Even though I couldn't make any of the yearly events, that also made it a top notch experience. I even loved the moisture sensing wipers, which were discontinued with the reason of "too many problems because owners didn't know how to use them" but in reality was just another "bean counter" problem at FOMOCO. I still have nothing but Fords, but really hate to see the way they have handled success in the past.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,890
    Thank you. We have a separate discussion for talking about Lincoln in general.

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  • albookalbook Posts: 1,282
    i say that, before the 300, the ls and bonnevile were the two best American sedans on the road. And maybe the CTS. THat car turned Caddy around. it's too bad GM couldn't start producing more cars like this at that time! THe MKs' problem is clearly that it should have come out in 01-right after LS. Lincoln would have really had a hit. Now they just have an old car that's aging and still a few years down the road. But if this is all Lincoln's got then bring it on. At least they'll have something for the market!
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I have driven a Zephyr and was "whelmed" by it, not over or under. But for 07, somebody has been cattle rustling over at Lincoln, because the seats felt Lexus soft!! What a change! I loved it. I noted the Navigator has similar quality stuff inside, as does the MarkLT. Only the lowly Town Car limo/taxi still has fairly non-cushy leather inside now. This is a very positive step for Lincoln, IMO. It's getting back to what a luxury car should be.
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