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Toyota Camry Hybrid

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Comments

  • jimlockeyjimlockey Member Posts: 265
    You can forget about a Sienna. I had an 04 Seinna and out of 40 new cars in my life time it is the second worse car I have ever owned. The first was a 57 Chevrolet. I kept it one year and got rid of it.

    I have an 05 Passat TDI and couln't be more happy. Give me a good diesel anytime. The sad thing is we don't get the best diesels here in the US. Europe has the best.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    7.9s 0-60 is not really "V6" power in this day and age anymore.

    The Accord 4 cyl. gets about the same 0-60.

    Plus, the penalty of aggressive driving in hybrids is higher than in normal cars.
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Member Posts: 265
    I would like someone to give an honest review of the hybrids, but dirve it in the Rocky Mountains and the vast deserts of New Mexico, Arizona and West Texas.

    Then drive it through the Ozarks. City driving I get enough of, so lets take one on a long vacation trip. When you do this, use a hand calculator.
  • devsiennadevsienna Member Posts: 70
    You can forget about a Sienna. I had an 04 Seinna and out of 40 new cars in my life time it is the second worse car I have ever owned. The first was a 57 Chevrolet. I kept it one year and got rid of it.

    Sorry to hear that you had such a negative experience with your '04 Sienna. We have one (XLE Limited) that has been a joy so far to have. As of today, it's 2 years old and has 56K miles on it. The only problems I've had with it was that the hydraulic steering pump developing a leak, and that was replaced without fuss under warranty at the time.

    I'm personally looking forward to the Sienna Hybrid. Will I rush out and replace our conventional Sienna once the Hybrid comes out? Unlikely, since we'll still have a couple or so years left on the loan for the current one. But when it comes time to replace the Sienna, it will be the first car we look at.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    With 300,000+ Prius' and HH and 400h and FEH and HCH on the road now they have already been proven. To see the statistical data go to GreenHybrid and see the fuel ratings being reported around the country by real owners.

    It's all there. Most owners are in CA - on highways. Lots of owners in AZ and CO to give you a different perspective. The 2nd leading area is the MD/VA/DC corridor. That's a pretty varied sample.

    Why would driving it in the deserts be any different than on a dead flat stretch of I95 on the E Coast? What is your supposition?

    The HAH, HH and the 400h will be rockets in any driving environment.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    As in most things, vehicles especially, one size doesnt fit all. The vast majority of owners love the Sienna if reports from the field are accurate. Some will not like it at all. Life is like that.
  • mary99mary99 Member Posts: 65
    Ok, Mid, if you're offering your services as a car picker, here's my specs!

    How important is mileage and TCO (Total Cost of Ownership)? is that why your are looking at 2007 Camry Hybrid ?So-so importance. I drive probably 20k miles a year as part of my business. I think V6 XLE MPG is ok but not much higher. Hybrid interested me for the enviro. effects, the quiet, the saving, and because it would allow me to have a 'dressed-up' car (nav, auto climate control, smart key, etc.) w/OUT leather or moonroof!

    There are a bunch of other options for 32K?

    Quiet,Luxury, reliaiblity

    Camry XLE Currently my frontrunner. Would love XLE V6 with CLOTH, though.
    Avalon XLS A little big.
    Lexus ES 330 Add nav and price gets too high, leather
    Lexus IS 250 Ditto
    Honda Accord EX Another strong candidate
    Acura TL See Lexus comments
    Acura TSX Ditto
    Prius Comfort/luxury is important to me this time. Plus they're selling way over MSRP here, I think.


    I might go look at the Hyundais, though they have no nav. Passat is nice but add any options and it's up to $35k quickly. Plus it's leather or vinyl.

    Any other thoughts? XLE V6 looks like my winner so far (w/unwanted leather), or the SE V6 w/cloth, and just forget Auto Climate Control and some of the other niceties in the XLE.

    THANKS!
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Jrock65 said: "7.9s 0-60 is not really "V6" power in this day and age anymore.

    The Accord 4 cyl. gets about the same 0-60. "

    I DISAGREE

    The Accord now has a 166 Hp 4Cyl, pretty stout 4 Cyl but it is only rated at 8.6 reference Consumer Guide reports: http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/New/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/38693/Act/Roadt- est/

    The people that need convincing are Prius drivers ,who are in a world of their own thinking that 0-60 mph in 10.5-11 seconds is as fast as anyone ever needs to go LOL.

    In summary, 7.9 seconds is nice performance for the 2007 Camry hybrid is is on the fast end of equivalent V6s.

    Cheers,

    MidCow only driving a 2.2L 4 cyl :cry::cry:
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Mary99,

    You done a pretty good analysis congratulations. If you had asked about a Hyundai before I would have said NO WAY!
    However, the Hyndai Sonata V6 is worth looking at and test driving. Stay away from VWs including Passat, maintenance and service problems especailly after a couple of years. But very nice features and road feel. In your case I would Narrow it down to Camry, Accord and Sonata. You leading candidate XLE V6 is an excellent choice, probably better than the Camry Hybrid for you.

    By the way, you can get an excellent 2730 Garmin GPS for around $874 from http://www.gpsdiscount.com/ . Excellent portable GPS.

    Actually Acuras TSX w Nav is slightly under $30K.

    Good Luck I think any Toyota/Lexus/Honda/Acura would be a good choice area .

    MidCow
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Newt5 said:

    "You haven't driven it... I have,"

    You are absolutely right I have never driven a Bentley Continental GT and I doubt if any other people on this forum thread have either.

    If your swing with Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Rolls Royces and Bentleys then you probably got to this forum thread by mistake.

    Congratulations of your wealth and good day sir,

    MidCow

    P.S.- Just one curious question, Is the Murcielago as great as they say it is?
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    MidCow only driving a 2.2L 4 cyl

    What happened to your V6 Accord coupe? I hope you didnt wreck it.
  • mary99mary99 Member Posts: 65
    Thanks, mid. I will stop and look at Hyundai today. The interior really does nothing for me, though. That green stereo is hideous.

    I tried portable GPS once and a couple things really bugged me. To hear the voice prompts I'd have to turn the stereo almost off, and I don't like that idea.

    My TL-driving BIL told me the TSX could be purchased in cloth. I'll have to look into that one more. It's beautiful, but it's 4-cyl, and I drove one and it seemed to have a weird visibility thing going on.

    I'll probably be waiting for a V6 XLE to roll in with nav, and just have to deal with the leather and moonroof. Dang, I really like the new cloth in the 4cyl. (I'm in Phoenix and leather is too hot in the summer.)
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Nope still have it it is great! 20K miles now. I put on a roof rack and just got in a Hobie Mirage Outfitter Kayak to carry on it.

    Double Sixes ( 6-speed 2005 Accord EX w/NAV Black)
    ( 6-speed 2006 S2000 Red)

    Cheers,

    MidCow
  • michealsmicheals Member Posts: 27
    Give the Prius a try for an extended period and see how much you NEED those extra seconds. In over 30K miles of driving, I have never truly needed faster acceleration. I have more than enough to pass semis and multiple cars on the highway and to accelerate up to 70mph on the ramp to merge on to the interstate.

    Somehow all those Priuses, Civics and other cars with similar performance make it without being runover. Why you continually bring up the Prius on a thread on TCH is beyond me.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Micheals,

    If you will read posts in toto, the point is the 2007 Camry Hybrid does have good performance, It is much faster than the car you say I always refer to. In fact the Civic and about every other car on the planet earth is much faster.

    This is about the Toyota 2007 Camry Hybrid which is the proper application of performance using HSD technology. The 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid has the perfromance that hybrid cars should strive for in today's modern world.

    I dare you to come to Houston and drive in rush hour traffic for a week with any car that has weak acceleration! It just isn't safe; in fact it is down right dangerous. This my humble opinion, it is just an opinion from one who drives in it every day. Your opinion may be different, but before you are too critical of mine, I suggest you put yourself in my footsteps for a week.

    Cheers,

    MidCow

    P.S.- FWIIW I figure I have about 633,750 miles experience in driving ;)
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Acceleration prejudice...

    For those like MidCow the Prius isnt the right vehicle. But it's fun to see a different ( wrong ;) ) perspective every now and then.

    Well intentioned and it keeps the discussion balanced. No harm no foul.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Hey Kdhspyder,

    Good to hear from you. I bought my first Tribrid! : Hobie Mirage Outfitter

    If it doesn't rain tonight I might try it out. Tri-power, the ultimate

    (1) Sail - Wind Power
    (2) Pedal- Flipper power- Leg Power
    (3) Paddle Power - Arm Power

    Infinite miles per gallon, non poluting :)

    ============

    Maybe Gneration 4 or 5 of Prius with the GT option and manual shift ( or maybe by that time I'll settle for autoslush- NAH!)

    Seriously - What kind of interest, especially serious interest (actual deposits)are you getting in the Camry Hybrid ? Do you think it will take away from Prius sales? What about when the 60,000 limit is reached and the government credit goes away? Are you going to sell Camry hybrid also ?

    Cheers,

    MidCow

    P.S.- My Tribid is slower than a Prius :cry: and isn't manual shift :cry:
  • babyrocketbabyrocket Member Posts: 54
    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/03/09/000119.html

    "Because of the low fuel economy readings in my test of the Toyota Camry Hybrid, I asked for, and received, the car for a quick weekend of re-testing.

    We drove the car to my daughter's, a trip of 375 miles, more than four times the mileage of the original test.

    My mileage in this second test was 37.4 mpg, and it consisted of mostly highway miles, not the hybrid's ideal environment since they usually do better in urban driving. According to the onboard computer, I nudged over 40 mpg with cruise control set at 70 mph for one stretch.

    I feel this is a closer indication of the kind of mileage one might expect with the Camry Hybrid, not the mid-20 mpg I achieved in my original test.

    So Sorry...but thanks to the sharpest Internet audience, I have been corrected."

    John Heilig
    Auto Channel
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    May be he needs to drive it one more time. :P
  • djs3djs3 Member Posts: 7
    What is the current status of ordering and expected delivery on a 2007 Camry Hybrid.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Word from Toyota the other day is 'early-mid May' in showrooms.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Seriously - What kind of interest, especially serious interest (actual deposits)are you getting in the Camry Hybrid ? Do you think it will take away from Prius sales? What about when the 60,000 limit is reached and the government credit goes away? Are you going to sell Camry hybrid also ?

    After CA, Va ( especially in the DC area ) is 2nd in hyrbid registrations. In SE VA we are in the lower end of this 'interest zone'. Frankly there is curious interest in how it will handle. Most people coming in are current Toyota owners so they have seen the Prius/HH now for 5 yrs. The hybrid idea is not new to them.

    We have probably 5-10 people who want early models or at least want to drive the first one ASAP. We prefer not to take deposits in advance of arrival because we don't know the exact pricing. As a result this can be a cause of annoyance/dissatisfaction and potentially lower CSI scores.

    Estimates are that the 60000 unit limit will be reached sometime in May; thus everyone who buys in 2nd and 3rd Qtr will get the full credit for the respective vehicle purchased. Subject to AMT limitations: consult your tax advisor as always.

    TCH sales? Initial production/sales forecasts for 2006 are:
    ~ 25K units from Japan ( 1st deliveries in May )
    ~ 6K units from KY ( production beings Oct/Nov )
    What this means is that except in the mega hotspots like CA and DC most stores will have one or two TCH's allocated to them a month. 4000 u/mo over 1700 stores in NA but the mega stores are often 5 to 10 times bigger than 'average' so they may get 10-20 units monthly while rural Mom and Pop stores may get one a quarter. However in Toyota's world you get (earn) what you can sell. If a rural M&P store begins doing a landoffice business in TCH's then they will earn more later.

    Somewhat surprising to me though there still is widespread skepticism even among current Toyota owners who normally are conservative by nature anyway;
    'I'll wait another 5 yrs.' (read: my current '98 is in perfect shape')
    'How fast does this new 268 hp (ICE) SE really go?'
    Reaction upon return: 'What a ride!!!'
    In the US power still sells.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Is the Hybrid the first 2007 Camry to be offered? I would like to drive that 268 HP 6 speed Camry. That has to be fast.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The Camry's have been out 2 weeks now. The hybrid is due early May ( from Japan ).

    Initial reaction to the V6 is that it's 'all of it'. In the SE and XLE trims there is a rear " /\ " brace behind the rear seat to limit body roll. First day out I took an SE onto an interstate entering the cloverleaf ( spiralling down ) at 50 and accelerated to 65 while turning and exited the cloverleaf at ~ 70. Nice feel.

    It's a midsized mass market vehicle so it doesn't feel like an Acura/Lexus/BMW but it handles nearly as well. The initial reactions from shoppers are that it's more compact looking ( 'tight' ) and from the back looks like no other Camry ever.

    My reaction on the first day was ( and I'd seen all the pics here ) 'What am I looking at?' I saw it from the back first also.
  • michealsmicheals Member Posts: 27
    Midcow,

    I actually posted after reading the entirety of the messages that you posted. I never stated that you did not think the Camry Hybrid had adequate performance. I was referring to you multiple references (over the course of the 19+ pages of responses) to the inadequate acceleration time of the Prius.

    First off, I fail to see why you need to make multiple references to a different car. Second, my response of the miles and my experiences were to challenge your notion that somehow cars that don't have 8 sec 0-60 are inadequate. For the record, I have driven a couple of times in Houston rush hour and had no problems merging. In addition, I have made several trips ot Salt Lake City where they have the stoplights at the beginning of the entrance ramp to the interstate during rush hour. So in cases where I did actually have to go from 0-70, I had no trouble merging in with traffic with 3 passengers.

    I challenged you to spend some time actually trying out a vehicle in your driving conditions to see how much you "need" that extra 2 seconds. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, yet yours is entirely based on conjecture. You have an idea in your mind of what is considered acceptable acceleration, but others can disagree with you on your standards. Just as you are entitled to your opinion that the Prius is unsafe, so I am entitled to my opinion (based on many thousands of miles in the Prius in a vareity of conditions) is that you are full of it.

    I did a quick search for 0-60 times and found several other vehicles that actually had worse 0-60 times than the Prius, including the H2, H3, VW Beetle, VW Golf, VW Golf TDI, VW Jetta TDI, Pontiac Vibe, and Suzuki Forenza. Perhaps all of these vehicles should be stricken from the streets since they are actually worse in acceleration? Despite your efforts to make this a try my conditions debate, there are numerous Prius owners, HCH owners and owners of these other vehicles in Houston that are not getting into wrecks constantly due to "weak" acceleration.

    P.S. Your number of driving miles mean nothing, it only matters what you are driving. If all 600K are in sports cars, then obvoiusly your perception of what is necessary is skewed.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Hey Micheals:

    Be nice! you are close to treading on thin ice when you say to other forum members : " you are full of it"

    This is a forum on the 2007 Camry Hybrid and I don't believe it is out until May , so therefore you don't have any actual driving experience with it yet .. IS THAT CORRECT ?

    Actually miles of dirving experience with many differnet cars, may of them sports cars ,under many driviing conditions does mean something .. It is experience under a variety of conditions and through a variety of chagning vehicle roads and technology changes.

    As for weak acceleration, normally you can drive to accomodate it. And 90-95% of the time, maybe even 99%+ other drivers with much more powerful cars drive them at only light or moderate acceleration. The issue comes, when an unknown or unexpected condition occurs and you cannot accelerate out of harms way. Sheer size an bulk is a protection such as in 18 wheelers and Hs, but that is a whole another story. Have you ever been in a wreck that you saw coming and couldn't do anything about? It is scarey,really really, scarey!

    Anyway take a chill pill and have a good day,

    MidCow

    P.S.- Most Houston ramps are metered under the truly heavy rush hour traffic!
  • michealsmicheals Member Posts: 27
    I'm sorry if I offended you in any way. From reading your other posts, you seemed to have no problems questioning other people's opinions, and I assumed yours could be challenged as well. I called your opinion full of it, I said nothing about your intelligence or your character, or you as a person being full of it. I have been on message boards for many years and critiques on opinions were always okay. Perhaps my tone is not as civil as you would like as I have little tolerance for those who are alarmist for little or no good reason. I will take a chill pill when others stop trying to outcry a whole selection of vehicles as unsafe based on an abitrary figure.

    I also never stated I had any driving experience with the TCH, I am responding to your posts referring to the Prius performance, so I am confused on why you even brought that up. If I am understanding your position, your driving under many conditions has lead you to state that 10+ seconds accelaration is unsafe. Well, my experience at almost a year and a half in a car with this acceleration in a multitude of conditions has never been unsafe. My experience with a variety of cars is also the same.

    I think you need to make up your mind. First you invited me to come and drive in Houston for a week in rush hour and see how much the extra acceleration is needed. So I state I have driven in several major cities during rush hour times (including Houston) and now you are stating that it is when the unknown or unexpected condition occurs that you needed the extra acceleration. Perhaps you originally meant come to drive in Houston in rush hour because you experience the unknown or unexpected condition there on a weekly basis.

    So now it seems that you are referring to the unknown or unexpected situation in which you must accelerate to 0-60 in order to avoid a wreck (since this is what you like to quote). I have been in several wrecks that could not be avoided and it is indeed scary. However none of the wrecks were not avoided because of a poor acceleration but more impacted by braking performance. Likewise, there have been several wrecks that were avoided due to sufficient 30-70 acceleration and 60-80 acceleration. However, other factors such as stability control, traction control, braking performance, agility, and other safety features are much more relevant to avoiding the overhelming majority of wrecks.

    P.S. There are still a number of similar size sedans that I have already listed that have poorer acceleration than the Prius and aren't proctected by sheer size or bulk.
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    I've been following this message board (and others) for some time. With all due respect micheals brought up a few good points. I don't believe anyone (that's anyone) has driven the Camry hybrid yet. He has an opinion just as others do, including yourself.

    In my humble opnion, there is a huge misconception that speed will get you out of trouble. I will argue that speed in the wrong hands (or foot) will have the opposite affect. I also believe that speed and HP is largely overated (to be safe why don't we just all drive speed tanks). You can argue all you want (none of us are experts). However, nothing beats defensive driving skills (even that is no garantee, regardless which vehicle you drive). Driving these days is scary, period.

    I guess we all try to justify our beliefs to others (and try to convince them that we're right). What may be acceptable or appropriate to someone is not to another. It doesn't make it wrong, it's just a difference of opinion.

    Peace everyone, Peter.
  • michealsmicheals Member Posts: 27
    Several individuals on Priuschat have already ordered and put deposits down. I don't believe that any of them have been given actual costs yet. Most do seem to have the opportunity to back out if the price or package isn't to their liking.
  • michealsmicheals Member Posts: 27
    What is that they say about opinions? They are like butts, everyone has one and they all stink? ;)

    The TCH will be a hit IMO, but I think Toyota will also suffer from a lack of supply like they have with the Prius and Highlander.
  • michealsmicheals Member Posts: 27
    Good points Peter. We all want others to hold to our opinion (and in general find evidence that supports our our opinion). Driving indeed is scary this days. I tried to avoid rush hour traffic most of the time by staying late at work or leaving early. People are just too aggressive and don't pay much attention anymore.

    Hopefully, people who are interested in the TCH will be able to test drive them on the dealer lots. If they do, Toyota will sell a bunch of them IMO. It will be a great balance of size and peformance (including fuel economy) for the mass market. The price seeems to be reasonable as well, basically a 4c camry plus $2K
  • michealsmicheals Member Posts: 27
    My apologies to you midcow, as one of my replies did say you were full of it. My intention was to say that you were full of it only in this particular matter. It was not my intention for it to be seen as a possible personal attack.
  • babyrocketbabyrocket Member Posts: 54
    I'm on the waitlist with a deposit for the upcoming Camry Hybrid, and the sales manager at the dealer told me today that 2 weeks ago he found out they won't be here until September or October. The salesman there was clueless as to the specs and features on the hybrid, so I have my doubts about their general knowledge level. Please tell me that he's wrong on this one too!
  • peraltaperalta Member Posts: 94
    If a 2.4L Prius exists, it would have many advantages over the TCH such as:

    1. Better Fuel economy due to lighter weight.
    2. Quicker acceleration
    3. More aerodynamic
    4. More distinct apprearance (a blessing or an annoyance depending on your taste)
    5. Larger cargo volume with true fold-down rear seats.
    6. Likely less expensive than TCH for the same level of equipment.
    7. Tighter turning radius
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Well we just had a training on the new '07 this past Tuesday. The Toyota rep said to expect them in early May. I'd find another dealer.

    Here is a likely scenario. Auto dealers do not get paid on what they 'might' sell in the future, they get paid on what they sell today on the spot. Taking 'future' orders is a courtesy only, it generates no revenue this month and that's all the owner and Toyota care about.

    What this leads to is that for special vehicles like the Prius and TCH those dealers who don't make the effort to market them lose out when they do arrive since no one comes in to buy them. In Toyota's world that dealer wont get his 'normal' share. A store has to sell in order to get new ones. Those that sell vehicles quicker get more; those that sell slower get less.

    Final consideration which I've mentioned here before. Initially all the vehicles will come from Japan at the rate of 4000 units a month. There are 1700 stores in the US and Canada. Thus on 'average' a typical store should expect to get 2-3 per month. However.... there are mega stores like Longo Toyota, Laurel CarMax, Kendall and others that are 5-10 times larger than average and are located in intense hybrid interest territory such as LA, DC and Boston. These stores will get 10 times as many TCH's as a normal store. Thus a store in a low hybrid-interest area may not get their normal allotment for several months while the Mega stores suck up all the hybrids. I believe this is what your local guy is telling you.

    Where are you located, btw. I might be able to direct you.
  • dinkerjilldinkerjill Member Posts: 12
    any info what the price is going to be
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    no 'official' word, just my speculation.. see prior posts on this thread. IMO $27K to $32K
  • babyrocketbabyrocket Member Posts: 54
    Thanks for the info. That's pretty short-sighted in my view, and doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in how they will deal with me when the car finally arrives. I'm in Charlotte, NC, and I'm happy to drive (or even fly/drive) if I can get quicker availability and a better deal. Any recommendations on another dealership would be greatly appreciated!
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    NC and south is controlled by SET. They have their own ordering patterns.

    I live on the other end of the state..OBX... and travel up to SE VA everyday to work. If you're interested I will keep you informed. Since we are the largest in CAT outside of the DC area, then we get somewhat more than than a normal share....

    In regard to the Prius I've told customers, as far away as Niagara Falls, Charlottesville, Pensacola and NY to put a deposit locally, if that dealer is reputable, and one with us. Whichever store delivers first earns your business. I've never lost one of these multiple deposit situations ( 4 or 5 ). You get your deposit back of course if we don't deliver it to you.
  • babyrocketbabyrocket Member Posts: 54
    What deposit does your dealership require, and how deep is the waitlist for the TCH?

    Thanks -
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Normally $500. At the moment we do not have any firm deposits because we do not have firm pricing. We do have an 'interest list' about 10-20 deep. I will enquire tomorrow though.
  • anniemfuseanniemfuse Member Posts: 66
    I have been waiting to buy a TCH 4-cyl. I test drove a '07 TC 4-cyl XLE two days ago and actually was disappointed with a few things. I currently drive a Gen 3 (1993) Camry 4-cyl. The 07 has a lot less visibility and less glass. The height of front windows (bottom of sill to top) is noticeably less than my '93 and the rear visibility was substantially worse. I am 5'4". I cranked the seat height up the way I like it which helped a little - the driver seat adjustments are nice (the passenger seat has no height adjustments :( I had just little room above my head (car had a sunroof which I won't get). I did like the telescoping steering wheel. The other thing was that on a curving uphill freeway entrance I gunned it and it actually felt a little more sluggish than my '93! The sales guy said that wasn't possible. So I started to doubt my own judgment. The car has a VERY different feel from my '93 - less road feel and sort of more Le Sabre-like. So maybe I was feeling more isolation from the road rather than less acceleration power? I guess I will have to just go drive one again - this experience has actually made me wonder if the TCH will really be the right car for me. I want a very quiet comfortable ride (#1), reliability, good mileage, all the safety features including traction control, and I prefer Japanese cars. I really wish I could drive TCH 4-cyl now. Isn't it supposed to have a little more power than the TC 4-cyl?
  • mary99mary99 Member Posts: 65
    Interesting. I just posted on the 2007 Camry forum that I just drove an 02 XLE 4-cyl and the 07, and the 2002 felt like it had a lot more power.

    I think the TCH is supposed to be similar in power to the 6 cyl.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    TCH is rated at ~192 hp which is about the same as the 3.0L V6 in camry's during the last 10 yrs.

    The 2.4L ICE is rated in the high 150's hp. There is a significant difference ( subject to be tested ).

    I think, annie & mary, what you might be sensing is the normal 'stiffness' in a brand new vehicle as the engine gets broken in. Normally it's at 1000 mi, then 5000 mi and again ~ 20000 mi. This engine is the same as the last gen with slightly tweaked hp. This Gen6 is about 150 lbs heavier than that last 2002 model.

    However if it wasnt told to you beforehand this new Gen6 has added electronic throttle control ( ETC-i ) and a 5 spd electronic transmission.

    What this means is that there is no mechanical linkage to the throttle and in the shifting. By your input on the pedal in conjunction with he sensors in the vehicle, the various computers sense what combination of fuel, air timing and gear that you will need for the specific condition you are in; i.e. City, Highway, flat, hilly, mountains, sealevel or Rockies.

    This does have somewhat of a disconnected sense in that the 'bumps and grinds' that used to occur in mechanical autos is being replaced by 'whirrs and hums' if you will of the modern electronic auto. Overall this system is simpler ( less parts ) and easier to maintain. For example in your 1993 Camry there was a distributor, rotor and sparkplug wiring. In 1998 this was eliminated on all Toyota's in favor of an induction coil on each spark plug.

    I'm not a techie at all but even I understand that this entire mechanical system - the distributor and rotors - is no longer there. The vehicles are simpler.
  • cooldad24cooldad24 Member Posts: 163
    I am also consider to buy TCH and saving cost is one of the reason. No, I don't drive a lot like some one and have minivan for long trips. So main usage is in the city with mixed highway and local for commuting. AS the tendancy of gas price increasing, the advantage of high gas mileage is more obvious. Plus unstable status in mideast, the gas supply could even in restriction. I forsee the gas price will soon break $3.00/g and even $3.50 in SF Bay area. Plus I can drive in Carpool lane with TCH, a plus when occasional need in a hurry.

    Accleration is very subjective and should consider driving environment and need, and there is no absolute answer. But for most driving condition as I observed, 10-12 0-60 is needed and used. I am more concern about hp/lb number which really help in passing and up hill driving. Unless drag racing or frequently changing lanes for passing slower than you drive cars, you don't need so much power. However, at very rare occasion such as followed by bad guys or suspected criminal, fast acceleration will help to get rid of the follower at least till you got safer crowdy place.

    AS to CR's April issue about the Hybrid vs gas, there are some assumptios that will greatly affect the outcomes. First of all, they use $2.50/g price. In SF bay area, it's higher than this so the gas saved is more than it list. Of cause, in the area gas is cheaper, the saving is less.
    Second, the depreciation price is based on less than 5 years with limited survey samples. Used car buyer don't feel comfortable to buy hybrid due to insufficient reliability records and the worry of battery replacement cost. Some even think they need to be plugged to charge the electric engine (don't laugh, it's true). This could change in the futures since the last 3 years' records shown they have been very reliable(because they are all made by Japanese Auto companies?) For whom, like me, keep the vehicle more than 10 years, might want to add the new battery cost into the overall cost though, which could cost $2,000 to $3,000.
    Third, they list the maintenance cost higher since owner don't trust individual garage can service the Hybrid so prefer Dealer doing it, which usually cost more. Actually they suggest the individual gerage can do it since is gas engine power system need the maintenance most. In long term, as long as the population of hybrid increase, individual garage have to learn how to service hybrid to stay in business.
    Last, CR fail to mention if the compared gas versions are equipped comparible. According to the price they quote, they are not. In general, with same level of features and options, the hybrid is $1,500-$2,000 higher according to more than one resources from car magazine or on-line articles as I researched. I appreciate CR's comment as unbias but not absolutely convicing all the time nor suit for everyone. They lean on reliability, practicality, and safety. Performance, style and driving feel are not their emphasis.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Plus I can drive in Carpool lane with TCH,

    To get the HOV sticker in CA the hybrid has to get an EPA combined 45 MPG. The TCH will not qualify as the law is now written. Better get a Prius very soon if that is important to you.
  • michealsmicheals Member Posts: 27
    Perhaps you can shed on the light on something I have heard about Toyota engines. I have heard from several others that Toyota engines are made deliberately "tight" to be precise and the engine has to loosen up a bit. Have you heard anything about this or is it an urban legend?
  • cooldad24cooldad24 Member Posts: 163
    You are right. I thought it is 40mpg and it's not true.
  • cooldad24cooldad24 Member Posts: 163
    I suspect it's the combination of gas padel tightness and the "feel" of acceleration. The former could due to electrical throttle compare to mechanical one in older models. And the feel of accleration could be more relax in the newer model due to better isolation, lower wind noise and CD. The 5 speed AT is more refine than the old AT-4 that doesn't sound and feel working hard enough. The test result shown it get at least 1 sec faster 0-60. The 93 has 125hp vs 160hp (158 in new calculation) in 2004 and later.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    When I bought my first Camry back in 1989 the dealer told me then that I could expect the vehicle to 'loosen' up at 5000 mi and be quicker/smoother. Then again at 20000 mi. I'd never had a Toyota before so I was skeptical. It was never a rocket but it was smoother after 5000 mi.

    From what I understand this is pretty common in a lot of vehicles that after the initial breakin period the whole machine is smoother and more responsive. This makes sense to me from a novice's point of view.

    In test driving thousands of Toyota's new and used I'd have to say that those with the maintenance done properly are actually significantly smoother and quicker than any new off-the-truck similar model. '...with the maintenance done properly..' is the key phrase.
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