Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Toyota Camry Hybrid

1…1011131516…56

Comments

  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Hey John,

    What do you think will happen to the hybrid sales when the tax credit limit is reached? Why is the tax credit needed anyway?

    Cheer,

    MidCow
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Anniemfuse,

    Best way is to look for the largest and deal with fleet sales or internet manager.

    Look at their lot size and car inventory. Also, look into local financial information.

    One that sayes they sell a lot and won't tell you is SMALL.

    Ask Kdhspyder on this forumn. He is knowledgeable and sells Toyotas at a large delaership.

    Toyotas and Hondas are best,

    MidCow
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Toyotas and Hondas are best

    Thanks for your unopinionated and unbiased point of view :P
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    Re. ADM . . . simply walk away, and don't buy the car. Early adopters always pay more for everything, plus they have to deal with any design or production bugs. Have patience, and the market will come to you. Don't buy anything at the leading edge of the curve.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    w9cw,

    Great advice! I am thinking of buying an IBM PS2 :) and a 1980 Honda Civic GL 1500.

    Oh No! Passion doesn't ever overcome practicality. Ever wonder how a year old car that was absolutely the bet last year, is old technology andm ust be repalced wevery year when the new model comes out ??. Just wait until the 2008 Camry Hubrid comes out with so many new, must have features?

    The best time to buy is in October, go to the Toyota lot on October 31 on a rany day and pick the last 2007 Camry Hybrid they have on the lot nd you will finally get a great deal!

    Cheers,

    MidCow
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I'd give them the benefit of the doubt

    If the average driver gets combined 38 MPG with the TCH I would consider that good. Not great or equal to the same car with a diesel engine.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    That clears 60 in 7.3-7.9, and gets 35+ MPG?

    I'm all for Diesels coming back, but they have to be as good as Toyota Synergy Drive, with NVH suppression, and emissions, and right now, that's a tough road to hoe!

    The E320 Diesel can think about it, but it struggles to get out of the high 20's, which is still pretty good! PLUS it can't pass emissions in all 50 states.

    Even Honda is sucking wind, by comparison!

    DrFill
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    But let us hold onto that 38 mpg diesel until it is actually offered here.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I'm betting that Toyota, Honda, DCX & VW have them in the wings waiting for ULSD. My Passat Wagon has a lot more room than the Camry and I can get easy 40 MPG if I stay under 70-75 MPH. There is no way the Camry will handle as well as the Passat. I have driven both. The early reports are the 2007 is sloppier handling than the previous years. Lots of folks are getting EPA 37 MPG with their E320 CDI on the highway. Let's face it, who would buy an E320 CDI for trips to the mall? The Mercedes was designed for the open road. The Camry is a nice car to rent I would do it again.
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    Actually, the best time to buy a new car is the end of December, especially December 24. You can almost name your price, at least that's been my experience - both as a buyer and as a new car salesperson.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    You skillfully dance around the lack of grunt in your Passat. I think it was timed by Edmunds at around 10 seconds? Handling in a family sedan gets you Mazda6 sales numbers.

    I don't see any new Passats with diesel power either. Not exactly an endorsement from the maker, is it?

    Good try, doh. ;)

    DrFill
  • spectrabluespectrablue Member Posts: 28
    Can someone PLEASE get me invoice pricing on the Hybrid?

    Thanks! :shades:
  • hardchemisthardchemist Member Posts: 61
    All reports I've read say how the '07 Camry is in a different handling league vs. prior years. Sloppier? No way. Much better? YES. And R&T tested the TCH specifically and it got 0.81g @ 60MPH in the slolam with 7.3 sec. 0 - 60. And that was with the 16" rims w/all-season tires! LOL

    Overall they were surprised how well the TCH did...Add on top of that that the hypermiler can likely get over 40 MPG with it, and the electric-only drive, and, and....you get the idea....;)
  • njeraldnjerald Member Posts: 689
    Although it is not relevant for anything, manufacturers invoice should be $23,630 w/transportation. Dealers invoice s/b $450-550 more.

    Expect to pay MSRP or more for a few months.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Toyota D4D 180 D-CAT if installed in the Camry should fill your prescription. D4D 180 D-CAT

    Toyota D4D

    Until such time as Toyota decides to offer diesel, the TCH is a very compelling car.
  • anniemfuseanniemfuse Member Posts: 66
    Thanks graphic guy. I have now been to three of the six area dealers, including two mentioned. There is a big variation in how many 07 TC's they have on their lots. I am assuming this will correlate somewhat with the (relative) number of TCH's they will get.

    I would be willing to drive up to 3 hours to a regional dealer that was larger but can't seem to get the data to know what region I am in and who the higher volume dealers are in my region.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    You are in the Cinci region, annie

    I'm guessing because I have not heard otherwise that the number of TCH's may depend on the relative number of Prius's being sold presently.

    E.g.: CA will likely get 5 times more than 2nd place VA, which is larger than MD, MA, WA, FL, TX, IL, NY/NJ, CT. This is based on Prius sales trends.

    However, the Camry is much more 'middle America' than the Prius so the reverse may be true. It's an interesting business analysis.. meanwhile you'd just like to place an order for a darn TCH.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Mercedes 320 CDI does!

    rated at 27/37 mpg

    0-60= 6.8 seconds ( Auto Consumer Guide)

    Cost: ONLY $51,050
  • anniemfuseanniemfuse Member Posts: 66
    Come to think of it, I have sighted few Prii here in Cincinnati. I travel to California monthly and see so many out there. One small sample size indicator is my workplace's parking lot. 500 employees in this building. Mostly cars <7 yrs old. No Prii until six weeks ago. Now there are four Prii showing up daily. I'll have to find out who owns them and ask about how long they waited on a list.

    So if TCH follows this trend, the midwest may be bringing up the rear in the rollout. Darn! I haven't wanted to take the time for a fly/buy/drive. I could use a little more patience.

    I agree Camry fits the midwest personality. When I moved here from California 15 years ago it was mostly Detroit cars. Then the Camry made inroads, especially CE/LE. Once Georgetown KY plant opened up, it was like permission had been given to the unquestioning made-in-USA crowd to buy "Japanese". Then Honda, then Mazda, then Nissan started picking up.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    So as not to stretch the 'rules of the road' here if you wish you might contact me through GreenHybrid to see what options you have.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    I already adressed that!

    The site you are on now tested the E350 TDI two years ago, and got only 30 MPG, 7.3 seconds, and no California Emissions Certification. Good, but a work in progress. Like a First-gen Prius.

    Plus the $51k preice tag, which is commendable, since gas E350 easily crest $50k.

    I like Mopar's concept better, showing Toyota can cover it's own back, if necessary.

    Anyone see the necessity?

    DrFill
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    E320 CDI reviews
    Car & Driver
    Nevertheless, the diesel is quicker to 60 mph&#151;7.1 seconds versus 7.4&#151;and delivers more punch in low- and midrange sprints: 30 to 50 in 3.5 seconds, 50 to 70 in 4.8. The gas E320 recorded 3.8 and 5.4 seconds, respectively.

    Road & Travel
    The diesel takes 6.8 seconds to reach 60 mph; the V6 gas E-Class takes 7.1.

    The winners posted an astonishing 47 miles to the gallon.

    Canadian Driver
    another velvety upshift from the five-speed automatic transmission, and finally my rearview mirror was filled with the grille of the shocked Z28 driver that was (was!) beside me. Coming to a stop at the next light, both the Z28 driver and myself were left with little doubt of Mercedes's claim that the E320 CDI could reach 0-100 km/h in 7.0 seconds, one third of a second faster than the current E320 gasoline engine model.

    Woman Motorist
    The additional low-end torque gives the E320 CDI a faster 0-60 time -- 6.8 seconds -- than the gas powered version -- 7.1.

    However even when we drove normally, with modest awareness of our mileage, the E320 CDI got 35 to 37 miles-per-gallon on the highway. That&#146;s great!
  • hardchemisthardchemist Member Posts: 61
    Don't forget that once you add hands-free phone, navigation, and upgraded stereo to the E320 CDI Benz you're coming awfully close to $60K. $60K!!! It's waaaaay out in the stratosphere just bringing up that vehicle in this forum...Hello!!!
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Toyota Winning Hybrid Race

    I'm impatient to be able to drive the TCH.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    bringing up that vehicle in this forum...Hello!!!

    I don't find it near as outrageous as the Lexus GS450h. If that is not the biggest waste of automotive dollars, I cannot imagine it. A $65,000 wannabe luxo barge. Lexus has hit the bottom with that one. Proving that fools are still willing to throw money away. I will believe in hybrids when they are still in as perfect condition as our 1990 LS400, 16 years from now. I think Lexus lost their vision about 6 years ago.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Gagprice said:
    " ... Proving that fools are still willing to throw money away. "

    Yeah think about people that are willing to by a hybrid model over a reqular engine model when they know there will be no monetary payback until 5-7 years or 100,000 miles. Are they fools also? Or are only the Luxury SUV oweners you mention that buy the better mileage, abiet higher performance, SUV ?

    LOL

    Cheers,

    MidCow

    P.S. - Finally saw a 2007 Hybrid commercail -- Good job Toyota :)
    P.S.S. - Darn Hobie Kayak rack cuts my mileage by 1.5 mpg at 80 mph. :cry:
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I'm guessing, eventually, Mercedes will stop producing E350, since the E320 CDI is so much better. ;)
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    With all this above MSRP talk going on for Camry Hybrids, it seems to me that the hybrid tax credit's main beneficiarys are the dealers, who of course do nothing to spur investment and innovation in efficient technologies.

    I can hear it already:

    Toyota dealer: "Sure, I might be charging $3000 over MSRP, but you'll get that back in the form of a credit when you file your taxes. So the cost of the car is actually only MSRP."

    Hybrid buyer: "Really? Sign me up! Here's a check for $3000 over MSRP."
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    This assumes..

    A. All buyers are sheep... 'Uhh OK I'll do that.'

    B) The tax credit is $3000 on a TCH... It isn't.

    What if there were dealers that never charged above sticker prices and some that even on the hottest vehicles charged under sticker?

    Shop. Be smart.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    "A. All buyers are sheep... 'Uhh OK I'll do that.' "

    Actually, it doesn't have to assume that. There is no question that most dealers would mention and leverage the tax credit to charge higher prices for the Camry hybrid.

    The tax credit's main purpose was to spur innovation in the technology. High demand hybrids such as the Prius and Camry Hybrid do not need the tax credit, they will sell well without it.

    So when you add a tax credit ($2500 or $3000 or whatever) to an item that is already in high demand and short supply, the main beneficiary would be the retailer (the dealers in this case).

    Tax credits don't come out of thin air. Ultimately, it comes out of taxpayer's pockets (both hybrid buyers and non-hybrid buyers alike).
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The tax credit's main purpose was to spur innovation in the technology. High demand hybrids such as the Prius and Camry Hybrid do not need the tax credit, they will sell well without it.

    This is not exactly correct on the part of Toyota and Honda since the technology was already in place since 2001. In the case of the US manufacturers yes this is true.

    The purpose of the credit was to reward actual buyers of the vehicles for getting out of older or less efficient gassers and acquire a new more efficient one. The credit doesnt go to the manufacturer it goes to the buyer.

    The tax credit of whatever amount doesnt go to the dealers in any way unless the buyer allows it. I understood that last year on the Prius people were paying up to $3000 over sticker in SoCal while people in MD were paying up to $1500 under sticker. Go figure.

    Yes I do agree that this is social engineering in that those that refuse to move to more efficient means of transport are paying some amount to those who are willing do so. The Congress and President seem to think this is good for our security and financial well being. It's shifting money from one set of taxpayers to another that's all.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    I respectfully but completely disagree.

    "This is not exactly correct on the part of Toyota and Honda since the technology was already in place since 2001. In the case of the US manufacturers yes this is true."

    Just because Toyota and Honda had the technology in place doesn't mean that they can't benefit from more innovation. Both Honda and Toyota hybrid technology still has a lot of room for improvement. But you&#146;re right in that it was mainly for the benefit of US manufacturers.

    "The purpose of the credit was to reward actual buyers of the vehicles for getting out of older or less efficient gassers and acquire a new more efficient one.

    This is just not true. It&#146;s a hybrid tax credit, NOT a gas efficiency tax credit. The primary purpose of the credit is to spur innovation in the technology. (Which is why the quantitiy limits are imposed per manufacturer, so that an established hybrid player such as Toyota does not excessively benefit.) If they really wanted to reward people who buy gas efficient vehicles, they would have given credits to people who buy small 4 cyl. cars, not RX400h/GS450h.

    &#147;The credit doesnt go to the manufacturer it goes to the buyer. The tax credit of whatever amount doesnt go to the dealers in any way unless the buyer allows it."

    The credit technically goes to the buyer, but simple economics tells you that every link in the chain (from the manufacturer to dealer to consumer) benefits from it. Who benefits the most is up to debate. My opinion is that on an already high-demand/low-supply vehicle like Prius and Camry hybrid, the retailer (i.e. dealer) benefits the most.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Actualy I agree with a lot of what you posted as opposed to what mine stated. Yes it is directed mainly to hybrids not necessarily to more fuel efficient vehicles. Retiring a mid 90's F150 in favor of a new Civic is more beneficial than moving from an Accord to a Prius.

    The credit does encourage all the manufacturers to look at new technologies, especially hybrids, including soon hopefully clean diesels.

    Regarding who benefits the most.. again I say it depends on the buyer. If someone in the DC area can get$1500 off sticker on a Prius and get the full $3150 credit it cant benefit the retailer in any way except to move another piece of inventory. It can benefit the manufacturer by allowing him to bill the retailer say $500 more but if the retailer chooses to discount the vehicle then it gets no benefit. The buyer and the manufacturer share it.

    OTOH if the new hybrid Camry is being sold at $2000 over sticker in some locations then it is the retailer who benefits and neither Toyota nor the buyer do.
  • irlegirleg Member Posts: 1
    I have the same question about Boston.
    After driving my Avalon for almost ten years and over 130K miles and checking out the various Hondas and Toyotas, I've decided i want the new Camry Hybrid. What should I do to get it at the best price possible, given that I'm ready to retire my Avalon?
  • lanceqlanceq Member Posts: 16
    Does anyone if Michelin tires will be installed/available on the Hybrids? Given that they should provide a quieter, better handling, and perhaps longer lasting tire than the Bridgestones I certainly hope so.
  • gampagampa Member Posts: 78
    When they say a $3000 tax credit... doesn't that amount come off your Gross income...and the money back to the Hybrid Buyer is only $600.00 (+ or -)... if you are in the 20% tax bracket?

    Am I wrong on this?

    Gampa
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    First check with your tax advisor foryour specific situation. Not everyone qualifies due to AMT.

    A credit is a direct reduction in your taxes. That's why it's significantly different this year than last year. Last year it was an 'income reduction' which as you say would be ~$600 in the 20% bracket.

    However... the often mentioned $3000 probably only applies to the Prius. In the case of other vehicles it's lower down to a couple of hundred dollars for the GM hybrid trucks. Best guesstimates now on certain sites is that the TCH will be in the $2000-2500 range. If you qualify!!!
  • gampagampa Member Posts: 78
    Ok.. then the tax is subtracted from the tax we owe... good deal.

    After further research, I see the estimate for the Camry Hybrid will have a tax credit of about $2350
  • toostoos Member Posts: 12
    I was interested in a hybrid (Prius)2 years ago, but my wife wanted a Camry. She figured it was more reliable. Wrong. We bought a 2004 XLE 4 cylinder. The accelerator (all electronic control) suddenly decided to surge and now I have a smashed garage, XLE and Jeep (this thing went 90 feet before stopping). I'm still waiting for Toyota to send a rep to look at it. The promised "within 3 business days" response has not materialized either. I'm asking Toyota to come pull the codes, but I don't get the feeling they have any interest in doing it. So, was I wrong to not get the Prius? Perhaps not since it has control issues as well. I think the Camry is a great car when it runs right, but given what I have seen re the engine electronic controls and lack of interest in finding what the problem is by Toyota, I must say I'd wait a few years before considering a Camry hybrid.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > Does anyone if Michelin tires will be installed/available on the Hybrids?

    Since I have over 35,000 miles with the Michelin HydroEdges on my Prius, that is a strong affirmative.

    Yes, you will find the upgrade well worth it.

    JOHN
  • njeraldnjerald Member Posts: 689
    99% chance of Driver error, 1% chance of auto malfunction in sudden acceraltion, although you have it all figured out.

    Brakes will stop a car!!!!!!!!!
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Remember Audi about 10 years ago, it almost took them to bankruptcy :sick:
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    john said: "Since I have over 35,000 miles with the Michelin HydroEdges on my Prius, that is a strong affirmative. "

    Depending how many miles you had on your car it will begin paying off in only another 65,000 miles ( assuming you replace the OEM with the Michelin HydroEdges when you had zero miles). If your Prius is about 2 /12 years old , then you average about 14,000 miles a year and payout will begin in 7.14 years or approximately January 2011 Isn't that embarrassing :blush: ?

    Has anyone wonder why Edmnunds says this about the Prius in the cons: "Less power than other midsize sedans, real-world fuel economy doesn't live up to EPA estimates " ?

    I SHIFT,

    MidCow
  • njeraldnjerald Member Posts: 689
    Yes, I remember, do you!!!

    CBS's "60 Minutes" ran a devastating expose of the Audi 5000. Audi customers fled. Lawyers cashed in. The American public was saved, yet again, from the perils of technology gone awry. Only one little noticed footnote remains at the end: There was nothing wrong with the car.

    The Audi story is by now, dismally familiar. "Sudden acceleration" accidents occurred when the transmission was shifted out of "park." The driver always insisted he was standing on the brake, but after the crash the brakes always worked perfectly. A disproportionate number of accidents involved drivers new to the vehicle. When an idiotproof shift was installed so that a driver could not shift out of park if his foot was on the accelerator, reports of sudden acceleration plummeted.

    But a story to the effect that cars accelerate when drivers step on the accelerator doesn't boost television ratings or jury verdicts. And driver error is understandably hard to accept for a mother whose errant foot killed her sixyearold son. So with the help of such mothers, CAS and CBS knitted together a tissue of conjecture, insinuation and calumny. The car's cruise control was at fault. Or maybe the electronic idle. Or perhaps the transmission.

    "60 Minutes," in one of journalism's most shameful hours, gave air time in November 1986 to a selfstyled expert who drilled a hole in an Audi transmission and pumped in air at high pressure. Viewers didn't see the drill or the pump&#151;just the doctored car blasting off like a rocket.

    Junk science of this kind moves fast. Real science takes time to catch up with this kind of intellectual cockroach and squash it. Government agencies in Japan and Canada, as well as in the U.S., conducted painstaking studies. The Canadians who are franker about such things, called it "driver error." In America, where we can't attach blame to anyone whose name doesn't end with Inc., it was called "pedal misapplication." And unsurprisingly, it's not just Audi drivers who commit it.
  • lanceqlanceq Member Posts: 16
    Thanks John. Unfortunately my sales person now tells me that my tires will be selected at random. It could be Michelins, or GoodYear or Bridgestone. No one has any clout as to what tire will be on the vehicle. Too bad!
  • toostoos Member Posts: 12
    Perhaps, but if that is true, why does Toyota make it so difficult to check the car? No, there is something wrong with the vehicle. Whether it is an anomaly or a indication of a problem that is wider spread, I have no idea. I do know this, Toyota apparently is not interested in finding out whether there is a life threatening defect or not. All I have asked for (nicely) is that they send THEIR OWN TECH to download the codes while I am there. Simple enough. After multiple calls, and days of discussion, I'm told I might see someone sometime next month, while the body shop makes noises indicating they want to fix the car or move it on. After it is fixed, I will be driving it (can't afford to get rid of it), not my wife. So, if something happens to me or the car, my wife can pull out the folder with the NHTSA report, insurance report, e-mails, and other records, and sue Toyota. I suppose then she'll get a more rapid response. Sigh, and I all I wanted from them was a analysis of the situation, no threat or argument made.
  • cammer2cammer2 Member Posts: 38
    I know that there are a few Toyota sales reps that read this site. Have any of you gone through training on the TCH? I've seen conflicting information - that the trunk is "fixed" or that it's a "60/40 split".

    Can anyone confirm which one it is?

    Also - does anyone know if the trunk hinges impede into the trunk space?

    Everything else about this car seems to meet all my criteria - but am trying to get more info about the trunk.

    Thanks for any information you can provide.
  • bmgoodmanbmgoodman Member Posts: 102
    I was told the same thing when I bought my '99 VW Passat. I told the dealer he could swap the wheels from another Passat to get me the Goodyear tires I wanted, or I would shop elsewhere. Amazing how quickly he swapped them--to include the spare. You might want to negotiate this as part of your deal.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    It's the XLE and the SE where the back seats are fixed due to the "../ \.." brace in the back. The CE, LE and Hybrid are all 40/60 fold down but the batteries take up some of the usable space in the TCH. It's on the website and it's in the new brochures out yesterday

    All trunk hinges impeded into the trunk space, they did last year. This year though they are not covered as they were last Gen.
  • killerbunnykillerbunny Member Posts: 141
    I personally think it's stupid to give tax credit to hybrid cars.

    How do we know hybrid is the way to go? How about diesel? How about other technologies? How much tax credit for each and everyone of them?

    The real problem is not a shortage of oil or something. It's the government wants to feed cheap oil/gas to certain industries and not others. Thus, they make all kinds of laws to complicate things. The corret thing to do? Open up the oil market and let the market have the final say.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles