What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

snakeweasel · September 2006

Believe it or not, the EPA actually classifies the Elantra as a MIDSIZED car! 95 cubic feet of interior room, 13 cubic feet of trunk space.

IIRC thats since 2001, the redesign in 2001 made the car bigger. The 2000 (which mine is) and before were smaller and I think were classified as compact.

snakeweasel · September 2006

I forgot that you had the wagon,

Yeah the wagon is great, scarce as hens teeth though. They don't make them anymore and when they did they made darn few of them.

plekto · September 2006

due to the high transaction cost, it's almost always better to buy somewhat more than one's current needs at the time of purchase . . .

This is exactly what is leading us to a second Great Depression. People buy more than they need and are wasteful.

Smart fortwo hybrid diesel is a microcar with a 799cc unit achieving 81 mpg.

The thing they are forgetting is that this is a *GODSEND* to delivery companies, much like the Geo Metro, which was hardly any bigger, was. More than half of Metro sales were for commercial/business use. This is literally hundreds of thousands, since the Rio and Yaris and so on don't get the mileage they really want and they are suffering with old Tercels and the like.

81 mpg and delivers the pizza and packages?(passenger seat is removed in most cases as it is). $12K? They will buy it in droves. And that's not counting people who want a small car to get around.

The speed, btw, that's for the diesel. The big gas engine, at 63HP, is pretty quick(nothing to move - it's as light as a Metro was)

BTW:(from an article in the U.K.)
A standard Smart City CoupÈ Pulse can be yours for £7,295
http://www.xe.com/ucc/
13,677.67 USD - including VAT.
VAT in U.K. is 17.5%
http://www.csgnetwork.com/salestaxcalc.html
De-calculate tax and you get:
$12937.70
That includes plates and delivery charge, so subtract that and you are close to $12,500 USD.

Plus, in San Fransisco or New York, parking is a nightmare. This is small enough to park sideways.

badreligion · September 2006

My Elantra GT hatch can fit quite a lot of cargo, more than an xA I'd bet, especially with the rear seats folded flat. Of course I realize most Elantra owners have the sedan.

imidazol97 · September 2006

Does this look like a Taurus wagon from a few years ago whenFord went to the bubble Taurus?

snakeweasel · September 2006

At first glance maybe, but the Taurus wagon sloped down in the back IIRC and the Elantra wagon doesn't. Plus I think the Taurus windshield is more sloped too.

imidazol97 · September 2006

Agree. It's the slope of the C-pillar that really caught my eye for similarity.

turboshadow · September 2006

I just went blind!!!

andre1969 · September 2006

that really ties in the similarity between the Taurus and Elantra wagon is that both of them are derived from sedans with a fairly "fast" (as opposed to formal, upright) C-pillar, and it looks like they both use the same back doors as their sedan counterparts. As a result, it was a bit difficult to blend the extended wagon roof, side windows, etc as seamlessly as they might be able to do on a car with a more upright C-pillar. Also, those flush-mounted rear windows seem to clash a bit with the door windows, which aren't as flush because they roll down.

I actually kinda like the style of the Elantra. Even that little "buck tooth" piece in the grille looks better than what Nissan has done with the Maxima.

lemmer · September 2006

Let's hope that no carmakers use those two for future inspiration.

plekto · September 2006

Ouch my retinas!

Hyundai is pretty much summed up as - Korean copies of doemstic products from a decade ago, at a rock-bottom price.

That isn't to say, they aren't *bad*, just old technology. Their V6 sedan drove exactly like an early 90s Buick, right down to the transmission gearing, power, and wobbly handling. That's not so bad, really, but it's nothing like a good modern car.

Styling - They need to look at the MR2, and RX-8, and so on. Beautiful cars.

snakeweasel · September 2006

That isn't to say, they aren't *bad*, just old technology. Their V6 sedan drove exactly like an early 90s Buick, right down to the transmission gearing, power, and wobbly handling. That's not so bad, really, but it's nothing like a good modern car.

I don't know about that, some of the cars they have out now are really nice and have good rides. As for the engine and transmission mine are still going strong after 7 years and 140K miles.

british_rover · September 2006

Yeah but those early 90's buicks were very reliable as well.

andre1969 · September 2006

or the Taurus are really that bad looking. Main thing I hated about the Taurus was that awful bottom-feeder/catfish looking front-end, but that was rectified for 2000.

I think these cars might get ragged on today because they're out-of-style with some of the current trends. But in 5-6 years, I'm sure we'll look back and rag on most of the stuff that's out there today.

snakeweasel · September 2006

But in 5-6 years, I'm sure we'll look back and rag on most of the stuff that's out there today.

Are you kidding, even by todays standards some of the stuff out there today is just plane ugly, we don't have to wait 5 or 6 years.

tsgeisel · September 2006

I was going to say the same; I'm confident I can fit more into my Elantra hatch than can fit into an xA.

The tabletop from Home Despot that a friend bought had to be removed from the box in order to fit, but I know it wouldn't have even gotten into his Golf hatch. And we were then able to get all four chairs loaded after that.

The Elantra is a far larger car than the non-owners of one are giving it credit for. Or perhaps it's being confused with the Accent, which is more comparable to the xA, and a sub-compact.

jlawrence01 · September 2006

Main thing I hated about the Taurus was that awful bottom-feeder/catfish looking front-end, but that was rectified for 2000.

You can get over any styling weakness by rock solid reliability and durability. Unfortunately, the Taurus of that era had neither.

snakeweasel · September 2006

You can get over any styling weakness by rock solid reliability and durability.

Fortunately my Elantra has the rock solid reliability and durability.

iluvmysephia1 · September 2006

with a lot of subcomacts nowadays. I don't think there's much wrong with the Hyundai Elantra, new or old. The 2007 Hyundai Elantra is going to be a very, very, very successful car for Hyundai.

Having said that, I have my eye on the Scion xA(2006 and/on), the 2006 Kia Rio LX sedan and the 2006 Kia Rio5 and there is a new car-like SUV built new for 2007 by Suzuki that has just caught my eye called the SX4. Suzuki offers it with skads of airbags and ABS brakes as standard equipment. One can choose standard(of course I'd go with the manual 5-speed tranny, boys...duh!!!!)front wheel drive 2WD, AWD or part time 4WD. Now, I don't know about you guys, but doesn't that sound like a lot of drive options(at the flick of a dashboard switch, BTW)for $15,000? That is what the Car mags at the Border's store in Tucson were saying it will cost.

I'm gonna head over to Suzuki.com and start researching this new attractive small SUV/crossover from Suzuki today and learn more. If Suzuki can engineer all of those drive options(this is the first rig that has all of these drive options bundled together, or so the article says)and they hold up to some banging around in the rocky, dusty areas of Arizona and New Mexico(like my wife and I and our two Pomeranians really care about 4WD, though we have it on our '01 Sportage and it has really helped us in the snowy, icy conditions and I wouldn't be adverse to doing 4WD in my next new rig)and the car's powertrain holds up this rig may be worth buying.

Here's why else it might be worth buying. It looks great! Suzuki has done it with the styling! Ole! Pass me another large Margarita and turn that second Foghat album up, would ya? Yep-that one with the stone and biscuit on the cover. "Feel so bad...feel like a ball game on a rainy day." Ahh...I'll have to snap that CD up and a few digitally remastered Guess Who ones, like the #10 album and Road Food and Live at the Paramount for the new 2006 Kia Rio LX sedan, 2006 Kia Rio5, 2006 or 2007 Scion xA or, this new little pup...the 2007 Suzuki SX4. I have never been so close to considering a Suzuki automotive product before. How's their Warranty? How does Foghat or The Guess Who or The Tragically Hip or Tonic or The Drive-By Truckers or Lynyrd Skynyrd sound cranked inside there?

In the meantime, our 2001 Kia Sportage 4x4 with 119,580 miles on it is running like an absolute champ. If my other half would amuse me I would go serious shopping next Thursday(my next day off)for one of the above-mentioned rigs. Not because the 2001 Kia Sportage 4x4 needs to be replaced, but because the new world order rigs being made now by my favorite carmakers are really great rigs to own and enjoy and drive. They're strong and solid and safe. And they're not that expensive. The ones I like are foreign.

They are also small, subcompacts. They are great little rigs. It's great to be alive(yes,it's a song on the new Drive-By Truckers CD). Beside that new song sung by Patterson Hood, it is truly great to be alive. And the worldwide automotive market is alive and brimming with great new product, my car-nutty, online companions. Even a new car from Brazil coming over in another year called the Obvio! 828/2 that would be a better car overall than the hipster-inclined Smart ForeverTwoMore coming into America. Done the research for ya, dont' even worry about it. It's true, the Smart is a gimmick that is not enough car for digesting. Nuff said, Sam Elliott.

Now to go do some serious online Suzuki SX4 research. Over.

And out. It's great to be alive.

nippononly · September 2006

The SX4 looks pretty good, doesn't it? It replaces the Aerio wagon, and that is a DEFINITE improvement in looks. The AWD Matrix/Vibe are gone for '07, so the SX4 becomes pretty much the only 4-cylinder AWD wagon/hatch out there, except Subaru. And the SX4 is cheaper by a few thousand than the cheapest Impreza (and better on gas).

The new Elantra is a big improvement on looks, and for those thinking that Korean cars are totally outdated technologically, you better look at most of the new Hyundais - Sonata, Tucson, Santa Fe, Accent, and now Elantra. All are thoroughly modern in design, if not quite top of the class IMO. Tiburon is a throwback - are they going to update that one soon?

nortsr1 · September 2006

Supersizing at the McDonald's, BurgerKing, etc. not only changed America's eating habits....It also changed their waistlines.

iluvmysephia1 · September 2006

the 2007 Hyundai Tiburon incorporates some minor cosmetic changes only.

The Tiburon for 2008 (or is it 2009? There's been some conflicting reports coming out that are confusing data at least)is going to be new from the ground up. It is bigger and very, very rounded up front. It is an interesting looking design, though I think I like the current Tibby's design more.

Design differences can grow on you, though. So, yeah, I'm gonna be watching for '07 Tibby's to scan the small, new body changes and the really interesting '08 Hyundai Tiburon.

nippon, are ya close to getting a '07 Toyota Yaris LB with your preferences installed? Toyota does need to tweak that car a little for America. Cruise control not offered being one of them, eh?

Yeah, this new 2007 Suzuki SX4 has grabbed my attention. If indeed it is going to retail for only $15,00 that car, my buddies, is an absolute bargain. I am going to drink some fine Taster's Choice and go to town on the net looking up whatever I can get my mouse on about this nice looking new offering from Japan's Suzuki. I think Suzuki is getting smarter and smarter with every passing automotive day. I've never been interested in actually spending hard-earned pesos on a Suzuki before. My Spanish is going to be honed ever-more living here 70 miles north of the Mexico-US border.

Ci? BTW-those of you living near where I am, in SE Arizona, be very careful to not drink and drive around the border, or anywhere in Arizona. The Border Patrol means business. We wondered about that and recently received information that they are not just given the autonomy to check your citizenship but will branch out into checking your DUI status as well. They are going to work with the Arizona State Patrol to stop DUI'ers. So just take heed and be careful. Of course, it's better to just take a room and sleep it off. Be wary, not of being caught but of driving under the influence. With American's sleep patterns so messed up mixing alcohol into the picture is very, very dangerous.

nortsr1 · September 2006

Why not just go to edmunds.com They have it under New cars.

iluvmysephia1 · September 2006

thank you, I'll do just that. It just occurred to me at Border's yesterday that $15,000 for a rig that you can pop into 4WD, AWD or gas-saving 2WD makes some serious sense. It looks cool, too. Especially with that cinnamon-ish red in the magazine, similar to our 2001 Kia Sportage 4x4's Pepper Red, as Kia calls it.

Suzuki is an attractive automaker to me because, like Kia, they are not complacent and are trying very, very hard to win our business. The domestics learned this too late. I think this new SX4 is spot on for them and I want to learn everything, from cupholders to stereo's for blasting out The Guess Who.

"It's great to be alive."
From the Drive-By Trucker's new song and album 'It's Great to be Alive'

snakeweasel · September 2006

The Tiburon for 2008 ....

Pray tell is there any news on the convertible?

iluvmysephia1 · September 2006

you bring up a good question. I know that Hyundai was contracting with Karman of Germany on a convertible coupe of their current Tibby. I think that was axed by Hyundai 3/4-stream somewhere. I really don't have the skivvy on that because my Tiburon research is kind of rusty. I have left off of Tibby-Eclipse, etc. research almost entirely and concentrated solely on the beloved subcompact and crossover hatchwagons.

Anybody know about the convertible Tiburon's fate?

snakeweasel · September 2006

Actually I think its in some pigeon hole some place.

Which is sad because Hyundai needs a good rag top. As well as a good pickup truck.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2006

Yep, the incentives for Prius are still in place...the buyer gets a tax break, gets to run in the commuter lanes (this is a BIG deal) and gets a car with remarkably low emissions (the smug alert). This isn't rumor---these are real incentives and that's why people are buying these cars....as well as for MPG of course. Smugness doesn't account for 1/4 million sales, only in cartoons.

Smart has no economic incentives, so that's why it won't sell very well. People act in their own interests. Being hard-nosed about it, the economist would say: "what would motivate someone to buy one"?

In other words, why would someone give up so much for so little in return. Where's the payoff for them? Performance? Nope. Big $$ in gas? Nope. Tax break? Nope. Commuter lane pass? Nope. Parking privileges? Nope. Utility? Nope. Finger-pointing from strangers? Yep.

So local or state or federal governments would have to offer incentives.... and maybe extraordinary gas prices in some future time, might offer incentives, but otherwise, for right here right now, MB should just pack up its Smart factory and cut their losses, and try unloading them in Europe, where they make more sense with $6 a gallon for gas and citywide traffic crushes that most Americans can't even visualize.

snakeweasel · September 2006

the buyer gets a tax break,

Only for a short while, then they start disappearing.

Smugness doesn't account for 1/4 million sales

How long did it take to get to the 1/4 million mark? 10 years?

Smart has no economic incentives,

Yes it does, it has better gas mileage and it doesn't have costly components that could break. Plus the Smart goes for 6,775 UK pounds, that translates to 12,800 USD, if it costs that when it gets here it would be thousands less than the Prius even with a tax rebate.

Its costs less, costs less to run and most likely be less expensive to maintain. Thats a strong economic incentive to me.

so that's why it won't sell very well.

Yeah 3/4 of a million over the past 7 or 8 years is very bad.

Being hard-nosed about it, the economist would say: "what would motivate someone to buy one"?

Ok since I have a degree in Economics I will answer that, if it is less expensive to acquire, run and maintain (which it looks like it could very well be on all three accounts) and it fits your needs thats motivation enough.

Where's the payoff for them?

Thousands of extra $'s in your pocket.

Let me ask you this, you have a choice between two cars, both will fit your needs for what you will be driving it for both will cost the same to maintain and insure.

Car 'A' costs you a total of $21,000 and gets 45 MPG.

Car 'B' Costs you $13,000 and gets 50 MPG.

What car do you get?

If you say car 'A' (and you are) I have a wonderful deal for you (but please, cash only as checks can cause trouble in deals like this). As there is no real economic incentive for car 'A'.

andre1969 · September 2006

Car 'C', the one that gets 14 mpg but is paid for in full, cheap to fix and insure, and scoffs at accidents that would total lesser cars? :P

Also, where would something like a Yaris fit in there? Maybe $15K and 35 mpg in mixed driving?

Getting back to car 'A' and 'B' provided they both meet your needs, car 'B' would be the no-brainer. However, it's deeper than that. I'm sure there are a lot of people who would say that car 'B' does not meet their needs. Sure, most of those "needs" are really wants, but try telling that to the people who "need" something.

carsgalore74 · September 2006

the buyer gets a tax break,

Only for a short while, then they start disappearing. Wrong snakeweasel, they only BEGIN to DECREASE in 3Q of this year for Prius, and will be in effect for some time after that...

Smugness doesn't account for 1/4 million sales

How long did it take to get to the 1/4 million mark? 10 years? Wrong again, the first hybrids were sold in the US about 6 years ago, and the current generation of Prius has only been out for two years and is now outselling BRANDS that have been in the US for much longer

Smart has no economic incentives,

Yes it does, it has better gas mileage and it doesn't have costly components that could break. Plus the Smart goes for 6,775 UK pounds, that translates to 12,800 USD, if it costs that when it gets here it would be thousands less than the Prius even with a tax rebate. Snake, did you do ANY research on this? The US version will be priced significantly higher due to modifications to meet US safety standards, so your budget is off, also Prius has been one of the most reliable cars in it's segment and the Hybrid powertrain is warrantied for 8 years...

Its costs less, costs less to run and most likely be less expensive to maintain. Thats a strong economic incentive to me.

so that's why it won't sell very well.

Yeah 3/4 of a million over the past 7 or 8 years is very bad.

Being hard-nosed about it, the economist would say: "what would motivate someone to buy one"?

Ok since I have a degree in Economics I will answer that, if it is less expensive to acquire, run and maintain (which it looks like it could very well be on all three accounts) and it fits your needs thats motivation enough.

Where's the payoff for them?

Thousands of extra $'s in your pocket.

Let me ask you this, you have a choice between two cars, both will fit your needs for what you will be driving it for both will cost the same to maintain and insure.

Car 'A' costs you a total of $21,000 and gets 45 MPG.

Car 'B' Costs you $13,000 and gets 50 MPG.

What car do you get?

If you say car 'A' (and you are) I have a wonderful deal for you (but please, cash only as checks can cause trouble in deals like this). As there is no real economic incentive for car 'A'. Again, you base this on a price that is incorrect, and you base your gas mileage off the Euro version, the US version geared to run at higher speeds that we require will likely get significantly less, and will also be a speed bump for 400hp Escalades getting on the freeway unlike a Civic Hybrid or Prius. Besides, for your extra $$ you get a car that can actually carry several adults AND a set of golf clubs with luggage.

andre1969 · September 2006

will also be a speed bump for 400hp Escalades getting on the freeway unlike a Civic Hybrid or Prius.

Umm, to something like an Escalade, whether it's a Smart or Civic or Prius is irrelevant...they're ALL speedbumps! :P

crimsona · September 2006

A speed bump implies that driver of said Escalade would have to slow down first before running over them.

logic1 · September 2006

It just occurred to me at Border's yesterday that $15,000 for a rig that you can pop into 4WD, AWD or gas-saving 2WD makes some serious sense.

If true, that would make the SX4 more attractive. On the Suzuki site, it says that it will be permanent AWD.

Swell feature for some, but I personally am not a fan of AWD. I would rather FWD in a compact like the SW4.

logic1 · September 2006

Snake, did you do ANY research on this? The US version will be priced significantly higher due to modifications to meet US safety standards,

Are you sure about that?

Currently the US versions cost more than their EU counterparts because bringing them up to US standards requires going to the aftermarket.

The next generation SMARTs that Daimler will be selling in the US are designed to meet US and EU standards coming off the factory line.

All things being equal, a next gen US or EU SMART should cost the same.

I am in the middle in this debate. I really liked the SMART I rented in Italy. While I was in Rome, anyway. It is not a good freeway car. But for much of the East Coast, where people either live in dense cities, or live in suburbs where they drive to a train station that takes them to a big city, a SMART may be a real option. Same in Chicago, and quite frankly, San Francisco area and even LA.

A lot of people complain about storage in the SMART. One thing you notice in NY is we in the US are on the cusp of many people discovering the joys of fresh groceries. Rather than buying processed stuff once a week and throwing it in the freezer, more people are buying fresh stuff a couple of times a week.

My theory is that big vehicles are an impediment to living a more day to day existance. Even if modern technology improves gas mileage, you are always faced with trouble parking. After too many trips where half your time is spent looking for a parking space, you just stop trying.

Small cars like SMARTS (or going car free - but that is for another forum) enable going out more and being part of the social fabric.

I think as people discover this, it will pay off. I note even GM has been working on research on making SMART like cars that park by interlocking together in long chains.

iluvmysephia1 · September 2006

new 2007 Suzuki SX4 unusual. You can pop it into 2WD(FWD)to get better gas mileage. Otherwise the car runs as an AWD vehicle and can also be run in 4WD mode. If Suzuki can pull this off for a low $15,000 price it can truly be a useful vehicle, IMHO.

logic1 · September 2006

Again, that is not how Suzuki describes it on their website. They do not have the full data there though. Maybe when they update.

If so, the vehicle is more than just good looking (and you will find a while back on this very thread a number of us came to the consensus that Suzuki has made a rather attractive hatch to go along with the attractive XL7)

tsgeisel · September 2006

I really liked the layous of the Aerio hatch, which the SX4 is replacing. What I didn't like was that the height, which also affected the volume, affected the handling. There were also road-noise and engine-noise issues as reported by many review sites.

If the new model can answer the concerns of the older ones, this is going to be a great deal for people.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2006

...subcompacts have gotten, go torment yourself and rent a Monte Carlo like I had to do for two days...you'll come back to hug your little whatever after that experience....

the "Smart Barrier" is easy to figure out...you pay a lot of money for very little car. It's not worth a penny over $8,000 IMHO and won't sell at a higher price point in America. ZAP is nuts with the $24,000 price tag. I'd be amazed if they sold their 250 car quota at that price, but I wish em luck because I like those guys. The Smart would be a good buy at $8,000 because that's what a good quality road motorcycle would cost you--and I think the Smart is really competing with motorcycles and off-beat electrics, not with "real" cars.

nippononly · September 2006

Several car mag reviews of the SX4 have mentioned it is a 3-mode system - FWD, AWD, or full 4WD. For $15K, I call that a bargain. But the version I would want with some of the little things I like (cruise and a stereo upgrade, A/C) is going to push $18K. Which is still a decent price.

What's all this Prius debate? It isn't close to a subcompact. For the record the tax credit is $2600 for the remainder of this quarter. That's the equivalent of a rebate of $2600 - it is not a tax deduction, but an actual credit.

It still costs a lot more than most of the subcompacts, most of which will get within 80-90% of its fuel efficiency in daily use, I should think.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2006

Oh I brought up the Prius as an example of how incentives (economic, social) are motivators to people and influence what they do...e.g., if 2nd children were taxed heavily, birth rate might drop, or if someone paid for empty bottles, bottles would disappear from litter.

wtd44 · September 2006

Truly an eclectic response when you threw in "car C". You are right on the money on that one. An old car that you own outright and have already amortized considerably, that admittedly gets low mileage, can still be the best answer for X period of time at sub $3 per gallon gas. Do the math. For example, $15K for a new high mileage car is not an advisable purchase if the same money was spent on gas for the old car and it ran for several more years.

snakeweasel · September 2006

Only for a short while, then they start disappearing. Wrong snakeweasel, they only BEGIN to DECREASE in 3Q of this year for Prius, and will be in effect for some time after that...

isn't that what I said? FWIW we are already in the 3rd quarter of this year.

Snake, did you do ANY research on this? The US version will be priced significantly higher due to modifications to meet US safety standards, so your budget is off, also Prius has been one of the most reliable cars in it's segment and the Hybrid powertrain is warrantied for 8 years...

No one knows what the pricing will be yet so I am going by how much they are going for in other countries. I could have used Canadas prices which puts it at about 2K more but still significantly less than the Prius. And didn't the Prius have a issue when it just died on the highway?

Again, you base this on a price that is incorrect, and you base your gas mileage off the Euro version, the US version geared to run at higher speeds that we require will likely get significantly less

First off we don't know what the price will be yet, I may be low or I may be high. Yes modifying them to US standards will cost but then we don't have VAT to increase the price either. As for gearing them for higher speed, do you have a source for that?

for your extra $$ you get a car that can actually carry several adults AND a set of golf clubs with luggage.

Again if I don't need to carry several adults and golf clubs then why spend the extra cash? My daily drive hasn't had more than two people in it in three years.

tsgeisel · September 2006

I mentioned earlier that safety perception will be the first major hurdle of the Smart - even beyond "it only seats two".

But the real test of it will be the engine. I mentioned acceleration to freeway speeds, and while people say it's not really meant as a commuter car, the reality is that in some area, "around town" means you'll need good accelaration.

And then someone mentioned how it might be an easier sell in San Francisco, given the miniscule amount of parking that's available. And yes, that will be a selling point.

But if that car can't hill climb at a reasonable speed, maybe 5 people will buy one before word gets around. There are streets in the city that even experienced mountain climbers would pause and reflect on. And if you've got a car that can't deal with that, you've lost a large part of your demographic.

The US public cares about 3 things in their car: perception of safety, perception of image and perception of power. If you can sell two of those, you've got a hit. If you can only sell one, you've got a niche car. If you can't sell any - you've got an AMC Pacer.

And it's already taking a hit on that second category.

explorerx4 · September 2006

funny thing is... prius has a 9.5 smog rating in ' california' states. rating is 8 in all others. pzev focus is rated at 9.
ghg rating is pretty linear according to ACTUAL gas mileage.
it depends on what your real world mileage is.
overall, prius is a pretty practical, although not exciting car to drive and it does make a statement.

logic1 · September 2006

Several car mag reviews of the SX4 have mentioned it is a 3-mode system - FWD, AWD, or full 4WD. For $15K, I call that a bargain. But the version I would want with some of the little things I like (cruise and a stereo upgrade, A/C) is going to push $18K. Which is still a decent price.

Thanks.

I'll look out for the reviews.

Wonder if you can fit a bike in the back (seats folded, of course) without breaking it down.

harrychezt · September 2006

read some reviews, and they sound good(overseas reviews).
fathe rin law just trashed his jeep grand cherokee laredo, and wants something smaller. Trying to talk him inot taking a trip to Suzuki and looking at the SX4(he "must" have 4wd/AWD... and wants better than 22-25MPG hwy, and must not be too costly).
will he look? who knows. He wants a Sorento last Oct, but owed too much on his (not totalled) vehicle.
He also spoke of the Santa Fe, but it's MPG is not so great, either.

Hmmm... this little thread I started sure has legs!

iluvmysephia1 · September 2006

A/C in as standard equipment on the brand new 2007 Suzuki SX-4, nippon. So far I see everything I would need included as standard equipment on this car.

That would mean $15,000 would still be $15,000.

snakeweasel · September 2006

and while people say it's not really meant as a commuter car, the reality is that in some area, "around town" means you'll need good accelaration.

I would say that driving around town the actual need for good acceleration is few and far between, and then most of the time its pulling bonehead moves. The majority of the time you can only do a slow steady acceleration in "around town" traffic especially in rush hour traffic (which most people commute in).

andre1969 · September 2006

...subcompacts have gotten, go torment yourself and rent a Monte Carlo like I had to do for two days...you'll come back to hug your little whatever after that experience....

that's probably more because you're used to little cars and prefer them, than any failing in the Monte itself. Take a Monte Carlo driver and force them to rent a little whatever for a couple of days, and they'll probably go back and want to hug their Monte Carlo after the experience!

Simply put, there are big car people and there are little car people (although IMO the Monte isn't that big of a car) and the two will probably never come to an agreement on the perfect car.

What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

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