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What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

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Comments

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    Now that you mention it, I've been seeing more of the Yaris 2-doors around, too. Not that long ago, they were a very rare sight, although the sedan seemed to be a hit right from the start. Oh, and at work I've noticed a Ford Festiva showing up in the parking lot pretty regularly.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I was in Germany in November 2006 staying with friends, and as a lark we decided to go take a Smart-4-2 for a test drive. This car is perfect for a highly urbanized environment like Manhatten or Boston.

    If you like HP, you won't like the Smart. I think it will sell well at first, just from the folks doing the "fad" buying, but it will be 3-4 years before the question is answered about long term demand.

    You can drive in like a manual, or you can simply put it in gear and depress the gas pedal. It will automatically shift the gears by itself, emulating how you would depress the gas, run through the gear, depress the clutch while releaseing the gas pedal, shift to the next gear, and ...repeat....all by itself! It really takes a few minutes to get accustomed to how it shifts.

    A surprising amount of room up front, giving the illusion of a much larger vehicle.

    As for long term availability, the last I heard was that M/B has consistantly lost money on the Smart since its inception. Success here in the USA will have a lot to do with the availability of dealers and dealer network.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Early demand doesn't mean much. They have to have sustained demand.

    This is a fad car, like the PT Cruiser or New Beetle.

    You have to measure sales once the hype dies down.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    "Now that you mention it, I've been seeing more of the Yaris 2-doors around, too. Not that long ago, they were a very rare sight, although the sedan seemed to be a hit right from the start"

    Originally, Toyota chose to build only 20% of the Yarises as hatches, anticipating that would be the demand from the public. Now that they have realized the error of their ways, they are busy building many more of the little 3-doors. :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The sedan it too close to the Corolla in size and price. Once you equip it well, may as well get the Corolla.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,200
    Toyota's biggest problem with the Yaris, is that they didn't bring over the much more useful 4-door hatchback... Scion had the nearly identical xA, so I guess they didn't want the overlap..

    Now that the xD has replaced the xA, and moved up in engine size (and ugliness), they should bring in the 4-door hatch, and the FIT would have some worthy competition...

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    The sedan it too close to the Corolla in size and price. Once you equip it well, may as well get the Corolla.

    Considering how close the Yaris sedan and Corolla are in size and price, I'm surprised that the market was able to reasonably sustain them both. Doesn't the Yaris pull in something like 100-120K units per year? And IIRC, the Yaris really didn't put a dent in Corolla sales when it came out, either.

    The Corolla has really stepped up in price, though. One of my coworkers just bought a 2009 S model, and it had an MSRP of something like $22K! I think he paid about $20K for it though.

    I guess if you got a fairly basic Corolla, you could still get in around $15-16K though?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Mama-mia! $20k?

    I guess with NAV and all the goodies, they get up there.

    Wow, though.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The Corolla has really stepped up in price, though. One of my coworkers just bought a 2009 S model, and it had an MSRP of something like $22K! I think he paid about $20K for it though.

    I guess if you got a fairly basic Corolla, you could still get in around $15-16K though?

    The cheapest Corolla has an MSRP over $15k. The XR-S model I priced didn't have leather, but cost over $25k. I'll just take a V6 Altima over that one, thankyouverymuch.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    No, as surprising as it may seem when you do the numbers on paper, the Corolla and Yaris have coexisted pretty peacefully. In the first full year of Yaris sales, Corolla sales were up to a historic high for that model.

    There is a world of difference between these two models if you drive them back to back. Neither is a sports car, but the Corolla is the real snoozer of the pair. The Yaris has much more lively steering, is several hundred pounds lighter and consequently much more nimble, and can be had with the usual amenities for the same street price as a stripped Corolla. Not to mention that Yaris drivers experience notably better gas mileage. The EPA ratings are very misleading there.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • podredpodred Member Posts: 127
    As you regular readers know, I have quite a collection of cars from the extreme exotic car end of the spectrum, Ferrari F50 & Bugatti Veyron to the opposite extreme 2008 Yaris Hatchback S.

    I must say that I'm truly shocked at just how much I am enjoying the Yaris. I originally bought it for my daughter, who just had to have what she described as "this cute little red car". Well like most young people that lasted about 3 days until she rode in her girlfriends Saturn Sky. So the following weekend we went down and bought one of those for her.

    Now I must admit that I have always loved small 2 dr hatchbacks and other small sporty cars. But I already have my 2006 Mini Cooper S with a serious amount of horsepower and all the John Cooper hop up parts, suspension, body kit etc. So my plan B was to sell the Yaris to a friend who wanted it as a commuter car.

    Well, while driving it to his house across town (30 miles) I found that I really liked the high seating position, the funky look, the center stack dash with tachometer and speedometer, the overall simplicity and the fact that my daughter and I both love the color Red, which is the color of this Yaris.

    Thus being the complete hopeless car addict I am, I whipped out my cell phone, called my friend and said that I changed my mind and was going to keep the car "at least for a little while". A little while turned into six months yesterday and I find myself zipping all around in this car. Perhaps its the fact that unlike my other daily drivers like my M6, I can simply park this and forget about worrying about door dings. Or always finding "just the right spot to park it far out" or looking for an "end spot in the lot. Or perhaps it's the performance that is so compelling. It's no Mini Cooper S, but it does have great off throttle response, great 0 to 50 performance for a tiny 1.5 liter engine. And the handling isn't half bad either. In fact I have a friend that has a 2007 Yaris Hatch, and I can tell you that Toyota made quite a few tweaks to the 2008 version. After exchanging cars, he and I both agreed that the 2008 is much stiffer around corners and while it still has some body lean, it's nothing compared to the 2007. The chassis feels stiffer and the steering more responsive. Finally the brake pedal is much more firm and does not have the semi mushy feel of the 2007. This was a very fair comparison as well, as his car only had 4,000 miles on it since it's used as a commuter to his office just 3 miles from his residence.

    Being another BMW owner, and having done several track days with his M3, over the last 2 years, we were both quite surprised at the value in this "entry level" car. Even the Yaris's sport seats offered a decent amount of support for what they are. Of course this is no sports car, but conversely it certainly does not drive the way one would expect of an entry level car. The car has a bit of character (Very rare for a Toyota) and charm, the funky look is growing on me.

    Overall I would suggest this car to anyone who wants the legendary low maintenance cost of a Toyota, combined into a car that is quite fun to drive. In fact I have decided to turn this into a "Keeper" by installing some nice 18" wheels and tires and use it just for a fun car.
  • lostwrenchlostwrench Member Posts: 288
    I like the Yaris also, but that 3 star side impact rating keeps me away. The Corolla gives you a 5 star side impact rating.
  • tiff_ctiff_c Member Posts: 531
    Toyota's biggest problem with the Yaris, is that they didn't bring over the much more useful 4-door hatchback... Scion had the nearly identical xA, so I guess they didn't want the overlap..

    I saw a Yaris 5 door overseas and the Scion xD IS a Yaris 5 door with most things the same except it has the Corolla engine and a different dash, same mechanicals, different body style.
    The 5 door Yaris is an ugly bugly compared to the 3 door. I like the xD much better, too bad they can't put the xD engine into the Honda Fit! ;)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    have you seen any yet? i have seen the ZAP that has been around town for a few years. other than that, i saw 1 when i was getting onto the ramp to I-84 west near the capitol, one day. the local dealer across the river has a bunch on their lot.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    The cheapest Corolla has an MSRP over $15k. The XR-S model I priced didn't have leather, but cost over $25k. I'll just take a V6 Altima over that one, thankyouverymuch.

    If (and that's a big "IF") I decide to get a new car, the Altima is pretty high on my list, although I'd probably just do the 4-cyl. My Mom & stepdad recently bought an '08 4-cyl model with leather and a sunroof, and I think it was only like $24K, out the door.

    I sat in the '09 Corolla at the auto show, and didn't find it to be any more roomy or comfy than the previous generation. Still not enough legroom for my tastes. Nice little car otherwise though. I like the new styling, which definitely seems upscale.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I narrowed my new car choice to the new 09 Corolla or the 08 Altima. After waiting to see the new Corolla, and finding out that you couldn/'t get bluetooth and NAV together (and other option limitations), as well as the inside almost the same as previous Corollas, I began looking at other autos.

    I looked at the Jetta, but again, no bluetooth, no leather available, etc., so Jetta was out. Considered the Passat, but it was 3-4K higher than a comparable Altima. I kept looking, but each time I came back to the 2.5SL

    Drove the Altima with CVT and fell in love with it.

    My daughter has an 05 Corolla and loves it, and its been a great car. However, Toyota appears to be adapting GM's marketing philosophies, and refuses to offer many options on the Corolla, hoping the buyer will move up to the Camry.

    And, the cost of the Corolla has gone up quite a bit. I still think the Corolla is a good car, but I think Toyota is making a mistake by limiting the Corolla's options and features.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I think Toyota is expecting people who want customization to go to Scion, relieving them of having to do much in the way of options on Corolla or Yaris. Remember, you can get Nav on the xD too. Of course, that's got even LESS legroom...

    Personally I'm looking at the Elantra (either the SE or the upcoming Touring) because I insist on getting ESC....which eliminates Sentra, Altima, the current Fit, Civic, Spectra, Rio, Accent, Aveo, tC....did I miss anyone? :) Probably lots more

    THAT'S the big problem with a lot of smaller/cheaper cars, is lack of safety equipment, and these smaller cars need them more, too. Let's see, Traction and Stability are available on...

    Elantra
    Corolla (and hence Matrix)
    xB
    xD
    Cobalt (but why would anyone buy one?)
    SX4
    Impreza

    Not a whole lot else...I don't bother looking into anything Chrysler anymore. ;)
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    http://www.leftlanenews.com/wp-content/plugins/iimage-gallery.php?idpost=4139&id- - g=1&idi=4

    I want one.

    Toyota, bring this over the the U.S.. I'll absolutely buy it the second it comes out.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    So they stuffed the Corolla engine in a Yaris, stuck 17" alloys on it, and called it the TS, huh?

    Sign me up. I hate the looks of the xD.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • tiff_ctiff_c Member Posts: 531
    Well pretty much only the body style is different. It's a 5 door yaris but stretched longer than he 3 door. They sell a lot of them but it's still a Yaris which isn't a bad thing. No idea what engine it has in it. The xD has the corolla engine. No idea about the 5 door yaris.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Why is BT so critical to you?

    I just use the speaker phone. I have a bluetooth headset but it's annoying to have an extra charger just for that.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    Does that sound like a large tire/wheel combo to anyone else? Or, umm...is it good for that car. What's that new micro car Toyota has designed that uses quite the amount of triangles in it's tiny body design? Any body see that one? It's been in the car mags and on the net a bit. Their answer to the Nissan Micra and Fiat 500 and on and on.

    Yep, nippon, Canada does get the Yaris 4-door hatchback, indeed.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Those 18" boat anchors probably add 2 seconds to the 0-60 time and 50 feet to the 60-0 distance. :sick:

    The little Yote is the iQ.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    yeah, don't get me wrong, I like the looks of the Toyota Yaris hatchback 3-door. But the 18-inchers kind of woke me up this morning. I mean, I have 18-inchers on my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS, and they look big on there. Imagine them on a Yaris hatchback!

    The iQ it is, yep. Actually looks appealing to me and Yota best get to producing that rig as ghastly prices continue to rise upwardly-like.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Oh man... You're right. Canada does get that car right now.

    WHY can't we get that in the U.S.? How come Canada gets better cars than the U.S.?

    P.S. How hard would it be to import to the U.S., given that it's basically only different in the number of doors?(same engine, same exact dimensions...)

    Yes, look at the specs. It's exactly the same size as a 2 door - just extra doors and a few minor interior changes to accommodate them. Yet it looks worlds better. Like a true competitor to the Fit.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I understand that bluetooth isn't an option that is important to everyone, but I like it because once the phone has been paired with the car, you can forget about it. No distractions from having to put the earpiece in, and I can move from car to car without having to do anything extra.

    My wife has a Mini w 5-speed manual and w/o bluetooth, and she always seems to get a call on those "short trips" to a nearby location, so she doesn't have the earpiece on and activated. Obviously, when that happens, the phone is much more of a distraction than it would be had she factory bluetooth installed.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    Simple solution to that, there is no law that says that you have to answer the phone when it rings. If she is driving and it rings don't answer it, thats why God invented voice mail.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Simple solution to that, there is no law that says that you have to answer the phone when it rings

    Well, thats one way to handle the issue. And, until handsfree capability came out, that's what I would usually do.

    However, having teenage kids as well as ones in college tends to make a parent desire to be as available as possible, and I would hate to miss that one call that was the "real emergency" call. And we all know those types of calls come at the most inconvenient times. Problem is, my kids' definition of "emergency" is often at odds with mine....I bet that little rule applies widely...

    Having said that, I personally used handsfree phones in cars for "incomming" calls ONLY. I feel that bluetooth capability makes for a happy "medium" in that regard.

    Of course, since I said that, I think its a reasonable attitude...but, I will say this...I have no use for drivers that seem to suffer from "OCD (Obcessive Cellphone Distraction)". A general conversation over a cellphone while driving just isn't necessary in my opinion. If someone is really that important, they should hire a driver so that they can spend all their attention to yaking on the phone.
  • podredpodred Member Posts: 127
    Well Said !

    Seems like here in America, we have passengers that just happen to be sitting in the drivers seat while the vehicle is hurtling down the street, applying makeup, shaving , blow drying their hair, eating and drinking. All while on the ever present cell phone.......YIKES !

    Me? I have two cell phones (on silent) neatly tucked away in the center console, while I DRIVE THE CAR! And I find driving the car quite fun! My insurance company loves me too, as I have avoided accidents instead of participating in them, finally when it comes to officer Bob we haven't visited in years........
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm going to offer a counterpoint from my hand-held but I have to pull over first....

    ;)
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    you're no fun! :)

    On a particular 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer website a month or two ago I happened upon a post about a horrible accident. The author of the post provided a link to pictures taken after the accident, with a lot of warnings to not look if you get queasy looking at graphic pictures. Apparently a young man just couldn't find a way to just drive his car...he had to text-message while he drove. Umm...he didn't see the semi stopped in traffic in front of him, unfortunately. The truck driver wasn't hurt but this young man was...ummm...torn up horribly. Enuff said about that one. I believe he was drivng a compact vehicle, not a subcompact, although not very much was said about what type of vehicle he was driving while distracted with text-messaging.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    have you tried calling people in a car with integrated BT? The sound quality is terrible. Same holds true when people calls you from their auto with integrated BT, like they're yelling at you in a cave you're standing 20 ft from the entrance. God forbid if they're on the highway, you can hear all the wind and road noise plus your caller's yelling.

    I'll take the BT earpiece anyday.
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  • podredpodred Member Posts: 127
    Nice response! I enjoyed reading your post.... :)

    I would like to offer a counter, to your counter point. I am the founder and President of a line of automotive body shops in California. I have been in business over 20 years. We have over 15 large body shops located in two major metro areas of CA where there is tremendous traffic, a very high number of vehicles on the freeways, and lots of accidents. We receive on average over a hundred wrecked vehicles per day. Since one of our specialties is working with dealerships, the brands we see the most of, are Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Nissan, Lexus, Infinity, and the usual assortment of MBZ and BMW's.

    At the end of the day, we are seeing that the Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, and Nissan Versa all hold up very well in accidents. Every bit as well as the Corolla's and Civics. And in many cases equally as well as, (or better than) an Accord or Camry. And believe me we see some pretty gory things. Due to our huge volume we have the opportunity to see cars that have been hit at a variety of angles, speeds, and under a wide variety of circumstances.

    The point I'm making here is not that you are 100% as safe in a smaller car than in larger one, however there are so many variables (which is why it's called an "accident") that no two are the same. Ever. No matter what vehicle class and size we are discussing. In fact as a side bar, until the 2005 year model, Land Rovers were amongst the most damaged, unsafe in a crash, vehicles one could own.

    On point, while I fully support the government crash tests, they in no way represent the "average crash" if there is such a thing and there is....to a certain degree.

    Now as we move on to discuss the drivers role, how alert they were or were not, their car control skills, their management of the driving conditions around them. Well, as you can imagine I could go on and on for hours. Thus based on my years of car racing, in cars ranging from Sprint Cars, Road Race Cars, Formula Cars, and my observation of what has been, sadly, many thousands of crashed passenger vehicles, the steps that one can take to become an experienced, alert, knowledgeable driver have much more to do with the outcome in most (not all) cases, than the type of cars involved.

    There will never be a "textbook crash". There will never be a school where one can practice crashing, therefore unless you have a lot of racing experience which teaches you car control ( based on instruction, time you spend on the track and in practice) the results are tragic. Most of the driving public are " just along for the ride" prior to & after impact.

    After it's all said and done, and as you all know it's called "risk". Myself, I would rather take the "risk" and drive what I enjoy, small or large. This as opposed to mislead myself (regarding perceived safety of sheer vehicle size) by choosing to give up a fun drive for a big, cumbersome, sluggish, gas sucking SUV ....... :)
  • dakedake Member Posts: 131
    You make a great point. I personally would rather drive a small, nimble vehicle that might help me avoid an accident vs a big, lumbering one that will carry me merrily right into one. Throw in the fact that most people driving the largest vehicles treat them as if they were small cars in the way in which they tailgate and change lanes and you've got a recipe for disaster.

    My frustration is I pay higher insurance premiums (and gas prices for that matter) to account for all the yahoos tearing around in their giant SUVs crushing everything they happen to come into contact with.

    My opinion is unless you own a farm or a construction company, you should have to bear the extra expenses for enormous vehicles - don't penalize me for your ridiculous and unnecessary choices.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I was reading something recently that was saying that in the last few years the insurance companies have come to realize what an enormous liability large trucks and SUVs are on the road, and are gradually adjusting their rate schedules to recognize this fact. So those drivers are beginning to pay a lot more for their liability insurance than drivers of small cars.

    If that's any consolation...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    hey, podred, great post BTW! I agree, I was trying to steer my post on topic at the very end and I wasn't making a commentary on the advantage of driving a larger rig to help save yourself in an accident. I actually like smaller rigs, my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS is as big a rig as I would prefer to drive. But I don't avoid smaller cars, I have test drove a 2006 Scion xA and I liked it, but didn't like it enough to spring for one. It's size would not be a deterrent to me for owning one, though. Driving smart, defensive and alert is more important than driving big. As if driving a big vehicle keeps one safer!

    nippononly...great idea to charge big SUV drivers more for an overall attempt to capture more of their loss or payout money back. I like the idea and it's a good move.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Different vehicles have different tuning on the bluetooth hands free mics. Some cars seem to do a great job with their noise cancellation on the mic, and some, well, some don't do as well. It also might depend on how loud the cabin is already, or not.
    The bandwidth of bluetooth is fine, there is plenty to send a voice signal, the issue is the microphone being used to pick up the spoken word.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    My frustration is I pay higher insurance premiums (and gas prices for that matter) to account for all the yahoos tearing around in their giant SUVs crushing everything they happen to come into contact with.

    Not necessarily. You're also paying higher insurance premiums because a lot of yahoos go tearing around in little cars too, and end up smearing themselves on the highway. Now I'm not trying to totally excuse big trucks and SUVs, but as someone who drives a standard-sized truck fairly regularly, and has been the hittee several times, but never the hitter, I'm questioning why I should be penalized?

    I think the best way to make someone pay their fair share, is to look at their driving history and see what kind of damage/trouble they've caused in the past. If they have a record of ridiculous speeding, or at-fault accidents, then yeah, definitely hit them with a surcharge if they buy some big monstrosity that has the potential to do more damage. And if you buy a vehicle that's going to be more expensive to repair when it gets wrecked, be it an SUV, car, or whatever, then definitely tack on a surcharge. But make sure the punishment fits the crime.

    As for fuel prices? Blame that on increased global demand. Not to sound too ambivalent about it, but if we weren't burning it up in big trucks and SUVs, it would just get burned up somewhere else. Or the oil producers would just cut back on production. Now I'm not advocating wasting the stuff, but if this entire nation suddenly switched to Priuses overnight, I don't think fuel prices would drop very much. They might dip briefly, but then as the prices dropped, it would become more in-demand for other uses, and it wouldn't be long before prices are up there again.
  • podredpodred Member Posts: 127
    Thank you very much for the recognition!

    I make every efffort to give back, by sharing my personal experiences, and reporting in the most fair and neutral way possible. I do realize that I am very fortunate to have so many cars to compare and the many years of racing background that was the direct result of growing up in a Motor Sports family. I am grateful to have accumulated the driving skills and well as mechanical expertise to offer accurate feedback and my take on the subjects covered here.

    Thus if there is anything that I can possibly contribute to this forum, I'm happy to do so.

    Cheers!
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    my focus was the most expensive vehicle to insure for each of the 4 years i owned it, compared to any of the others we own.
    do you really think insurance companies provide a financial break to suv's because they were popular?
    plenty of people love to bash suv's, but i am not one of them. everyone in my immediate family agrees because they are still able to.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    are in, and it looks like Yaris has started the year with a 60% increase in sales over the first quarter last year!

    http://www.pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2008040198482

    At this rate, it will sell well over the 100K mark this year, vaulting it into the top 5 Toyota models for sales!

    Fit is supposedly up some 6800 units for the quarter (that's just the increase), which is a solid 50% boost, maybe more. Only Aveo is down, and well, it's Aveo after all! It's only down 2900 units for the quarter, so percentage-wise it's maybe 10-15%, and the release of the new 5-door is coming in a few months, which ought to boost sales back up some (maybe - we will see).

    Subcompacts are coming on strong, now if there were only more models to choose from on sale in the U.S.!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    Naw, I'd never see any reason why someone can't drive a huge, heavy ugly block down the street, take up viewing space for everyone in the area, accelerating agonizingly slowly, rolling along with stupid looking bling-bling wheels and getting 10 mph. Why would anyone object to a rig like that?

    No, I've got no problem with women with toothpick small arms gripping their huge SUV steering wheels for all its worth, readying for out-of-control road situations at every turn with determined Detroit looks on thier faces, gabbing on their cell phones and offering to share their self-important lives on the roads by plugging them up with these huge excuses for Fo-Mo-Co to stay alive. Naw, count me right in there. I love huge overpriced, self-indulgent, gas-guzzling metal, rubber and plastic blocks.

    Do me a favor, car insurance companies. Take about 40% of my car insurance bill and blast it over to the group that feels that it is smart and stealthy to drive around in huge, gas-guzzling SUV's. SUV's that blow huge holes in several vehicles at once if they need to to plow their soccer-moms and who-fores forward to their next shopping destination. The domestic automakers have basically been driving while blind for the last 30 years, so, some people decide that to keep the American automotive industry in those good paying important jobs, they'll buy "American." Keep those jobs here, where they should be. Oh, you heroes! Has anyone ever told you how...ummm...brave you really are? How good of you. Considerate. Huge. Large. SUV-ish. Love ya!

    Glad you fully understand where I'm coming from. Large SUV's are living reasons to eliminate automotive usages for transportation altogether. Glad I could be of some help. :)

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    SUV's that blow huge holes in several vehicles at once if they need to to plow their soccer-moms and who-fores forward to their next shopping destination.

    And now, let's twist this around and put the onus on the DRIVER, not the vehicle. That same SUV that could blow huge holes in several vehicles at once when it is the hitter, might also allow those same vehicles to bounce relatively harmlessly off of it when it is the hittee.

    Take my '85 Silverado for example. Okay, so it's a truck and not an SUV, but it'll still hit like one. Back in 2006 I got rear-ended by a 2000 Infiniti I-something-or-other. Probably did a good $4-5K or more worth of damage to the Infiniti. Damage to my truck? About $350.

    Now, had I been in a smaller, lighter, "softer" vehicle, I would have definitely taken more damage. That might have negated the damage somewhat on the Infiniti, but probably not reduced the repair bill. After all, a hood that's only buckled a few inches, versus a foot, still needs to be replaced. However, even in my big truck, that impact really sent me flying. I had to fight to keep from shooting into oncoming traffic, and it was just luck that the car in front of me happened to move forward as I got hit. No doubt if I had been in a lighter vehicle, I would have been thrown even further. So there's a greater chance I would've ended up on the wrong side of the road, or in the trunk of the car in front of me. So this is one of those situations where a bigger, heavier vehicle probably reduced the overall severity of the accident.

    The way I look at it is, it's not what you drive, but how you use it. If you're a bad, aggressive, tailgating, speeding, weaving driver, then a bigger, heavier, sloppier handling vehicle will only exacerbate it. But it's still the driver. The only difference is that if you go zipping through traffic in a Yaris or Mini, cutting people off and encountering a bunch of near misses, you're just an annoyance. Do it in a big SUV or standard-sized pickup, and you're a bully. But it's still the DRIVER. The vehicle is just a tool.

    Now, if you have a bad driver with a record, they should pay a surcharge regardless of vehicle. A smaller, lighter vehicle is more likely to get seriously damaged and easily totaled, while a bigger vehicle is more likely to inflict more damage. Either way, it's a liability for the insurance company. And the more powerful a vehicle is, regardless its size, the more potential there is for damage.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    no, I don't disagree at all with your points. I am just giving my personal opionion on huge bling-bling SUV's, vehicles that just don't fit in to the 2008's and on. They really don't. They just look like waste. Period. Self-indulgent waste.

    Of course insurance companies should peg them with higher rates if they use their large SUV's as ram-rods. I'm not saying all huge SUV drivers drive like that, but some do. It's just that large SUV's, with their huge set-ups that block vision for others on the road and get crappy ghastly mileage...ummm....don't win any points in the "look to the future" department. They represent a once-proud American vehicle product, one whose train has since sailed. I do realize that an idiot can drive a Mitsubishi Lancer GTS as well as an idiot can drive a 2005 Ford Expedition. It is a very individualistic thing, how we drive and how we view our privilege of driving. In light of $4.00 ghastly, I don't see how driving a Ford Expedition can do anything for a person but win them the Darwin Award. Nuff said. :sick:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wow, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel! :D

    To be fair, about .001% of SUV owners actually do make use of their towing capacity and off road ability. ;)
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Actually, I believe it's 5-10% for towing, according to the last numbers I saw. And a much smaller percentage (but not .001%!) for offroad users.

    And the real problem with the large SUVs, besides the obvious foreign oil implications of their sub-20 gas mileage, is the bumper height disparity with cars, something the NHTSA is derelict in its duty to fix.

    And andre: yes, it's ultimately the driver responsible, but we have little to no real driver education anywhere in this country, and we can more effectively regulate improvements in vehicle design and mix than we can solve this driver education problem.

    But when liability insurance for drivers of large trucks and SUVs approaches or exceeds twice the cost of the same insurance for drivers of small cars, it may provide a push for people to think twice about buying the largest vehicles unless they really, REALLY, need them. Gas costs will do the same.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I know, I was just having a little fun with that.

    I actually had a hitch on my Forester and used it a bunch of times.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    the bumper height disparity with cars, something the NHTSA is derelict in its duty to fix.

    That's a pet peeve of mine, compounded by the bozos who get their trucks "lifted"

    image
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    LOL....I was limiting my rant to just huge SUV's, but, now that you show that picture! Excess, right down to the size of the...ummm...never mind. :surprise:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

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