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What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

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Comments

  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,591
    I've read a lot of the back and forth on the smart, but I think it has its place. I sort of think of it as a all weather scooter with airbags; shoot, the $/lb ratio probably is not that different than a Vespa. And I'd rather drive one of these in winds than a Vespa. Resale here in the bay area is very good. Its a second car for urban areas...either that's you or it isn't. But reading people's comments about how people that buy these things are morons...those people need to get a life. And no, I don't own one.

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    $9 grand back, that's it?

    I'm surprised, to be honest. I'm not a fan, but I thought the newness would still make it an easy re-sell.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Someone should teach those guys how to buy and sell cars. :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    :D

    I'm glad you said it, not me.

    I'd park it next to the high school graduation ceremony and look for emotional dads looking for gifts for grads.
  • georgiemabelgeorgiemabel Member Posts: 2
    well, i own an '07 fit and i just test drove a ford fiesta at one of the fiestamovement events in seattle. all i can say is, if they would have let me trade the fit in for the fiesta that day i probably would have done it. even with the smaller cargo capacity. The fiesta is a WAY more comfortable car that has a WAY better ride that really balances comfort and sport - with a WAY more upscale looking and feeling interior - really, if the cargo capacity was the same, there would be NOTHING in the fit's favor in my opinion.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    It makes me wonder if they will manage to stay price-competitive with the Fit. If the Fiesta cost $2000 more than the Fit, would you still go with the Fit, or is the Fiesta THAT much better?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's very encouraging to hear.

    Can Ford finally deliver a best-in-class small car?

    Makes people forget the Pinto and Escort.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    ia a large step up above the old Pinto, Fiesta and Escort. A more sophisticated suspension, better interior, better exterior design and hopefully better electronics to go along with the rest. It should be a much more comfortable subcompact than the Escort and Focus. I see Ford selling shiploads of these new Fiesta's.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    that does bring up another question, i wonder what the production capacity is for the fiesta?
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I doubt that will be a concern. Good as it is, most Americans still think bigger is better. Any less than a Fusion and it's an econobox to a lot of folks, even though we all know that's far from the truth.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    smaller is better in cars. I would consider any car up to midsize as a potential car to purchase.

    A Ford Fiesta is a good sized car, the car I currently drive is a compact, any car really much smaller than a subcompact 2010 Ford Fiesta would start getting to be too small to stretch out in, though.

    It would be tough going down to a subcompact car size after being in a compact sized car for some time.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    Ah, yes. It's easier to go up in size than down, which ultimately leads to oversized SUVs.

    I, like you prefer smaller cars, (for everyone). Bring back $4.50 gas!

    (Dang! I'm gonna get flack for that)
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    Re. "hanging" brake pedals... obviously, the reviewer isn't old enough to remember that all brake pedals, and clutch pedals too, used to be analogous to the Smart's design, i.e. emanating from the floorboard. He also evidently never drove a VW bug or many other examples of this.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    I just hope for their next trick, the IIHS doesn't trot out a 1959 Chrysler 300 to compare it to a 2009. :sick:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    My old '70s era Bugs didn't have hanging brake pedals?

    Obviously they didn't make a huge impression on me. :shades:
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    No, Bugs had their pedals attached to the floor, a configuration I personally don't like very much.

    The current Civic SI has taken a lot of reviewer flack for having the pedals attached to the floor.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    wow. IIRC Dad's 1966 VW Fastback, in baby blue, had footpedals coming down from up above the floorboard. But it's been awhile since I've driven that car. Interesting about the Bug, I didn't know that about it.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I prefer to drive small cars, too, but Big can be efficient as well.

    We have an 8 passenger Sienna and on many, many occasions we've taken 2 whole families on road trips to places. The kids have friends to play with and with 26-27 mpg even 2 hybrids would seriously struggle to use so little gas.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
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  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Mazda 2 small car to arrive in U.S. in 2010

    Mazda will bring the Mazda 2 small car to the U.S. market starting late next year, the Japanese automaker said on Thursday.

    The Mazda 2--named Demio in Japan--also will be sold in Canada. The car will compete against vehicles such as the Honda Fit, the Nissan Versa and the upcoming Ford Fiesta in the B-car segment. The Mazda 2 and the Fiesta share the same platform.


    http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090917/CARNEWS/909179990#ixzz0RV6RihKa

    This is the cloth from which the fairly promising Fiesta was woven! And judging by history, Mazda's version will be the sportier and better equipped of the two. I was so sad when Mazda NA announced they weren't bringing it here. I wonder what made them change their mind. Subcompact sales haven't picked up THAT much. Maybe with everyone bringing new subcompacts out for the North American market, they were just afraid of being the last ones in the pool.

    Or maybe it gets great gas mileage (let's hope so) and they want it for CAFE credits under the new stricter 2016 plan.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I wonder what made them change their mind.

    Maybe they decided they could live with the "Mazda 2 small" jokes?

    Here's the Inside Line story:

    Confirmed: Mazda 2 Is Coming to the States

    image
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Even if sales volumes are small, having the 2 automatically pushes the 3 a little upscale. People will not perceive the 3 as being entry-level if it is slotted above another car.

    Subaru has the same problem with the Impreza.
  • eldaino2eldaino2 Member Posts: 34
    there has not been a link posted, unless i missed it, but the fiesta versus fit article is on insideline.

    to be honest with you this article highlights why its not all about the numbers and more about feel....because the 'so much better' fiesta BARELY put out better numbers than the fit. ON SUPER AGRESSIVE SUMMER TIRES no less!

    where would the fit have been if equipped with the same tires?
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    And what cost will the owner have for replacing those summer tires?

    I like that the Fiesta will give us more choices in the subcompact segment: a performance option to the "performance lite" Honda Fit (and the higher-priced "performance premium" Mini).

    With a $15K starting price tag now for the Fit (and probably for the Fiesta too when it arrives), there is still plenty of space for the cheapos in the field (Versa, Yaris, Aveo, Accent, Rio) to make money, providing a low-priced commuter car that is frugal with gas.

    I heard an ad this weekend on the radio for $8995 Rios from a local dealer.....

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I doubt they'll equip the US-spec models with summer tires.
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,591
    The Fiesta sounds promising, but I still worry that it will get dumbed down for the US market, despite Ford saying otherwise. Their track record is poor on this, but maybe this will be the one... :confuse:

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    The Fiesta sounds promising, but I still worry that it will get dumbed down for the US market, despite Ford saying otherwise. Their track record is poor on this, but maybe this will be the one...

    Define dumbed down.

    So in Europe, their radio stations go in half-hundreds. For example the radio stations there are 103.15 as opposed to the North American 103.1. Would you like Ford to change that or would you rather it take twice as long to tune so you know you are getting EXACTLY what they have in Europe?

    After paying a gazilion dollars to engineers in Europe to design and build a "global vehicle," do you really think our non-bailout taking, mortgaged to the hilt friends in North America have the time/money/people to redesign the car?

    I would say the no diesel is about as bad as its going to get with the down dumbing.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    They always dumb down the suspension because Americans supposedly like a cushy ride. They probably will with the Fiesta too. :-(

    They always add weight when they federalize it (longer bumpers, side protection, etc), which slows it down and makes the handling even worse. :-(

    They always remove all the nifty features the European model has and give you crank windows and no A/C in the base model, because "Americans won't pay more than $12,995 for a car this small". They probably will this time too. :-(

    Dare we hope they know the meaning of their statement when they say they are going to bring the European model here as unmolested as possible? Maybe. I say 50/50 odds, since they seem to have gotten religion of late. But if not, the Mazda2 will be everything the Fiesta failed to be, so it's probably OK.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I was thinking along the same lines.

    Besides deleting the summer tires, for all-seasons, and probably down an inch in diameter at that, we'll also probably see an inch taller suspension with giant wheel gaps highlighted by the smaller rims.

    Then the clumsy looking bumpers front and rear.

    Plus delete the side markers (if it has 'em, I don't recall).

    Voila! Perfect for Hertz.

    I hope I'm wrong.
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    Ah, but wind-up/down windows save the weight of the drive motors, as will deleting the rear wiper, (doesn't rain in California), and the solid paint is lighter than the metallics.

    Beginning to sound like a little bundle of fun.

    I do, however, hope that they have learnt the lessons of the past, (the only sort, duh), and you folks get the versions we get in EU-land.

    We were on vacation last week, around the beautiful English Lakes and my wife, who is not a car buff, made comment on two cars :

    o New Fiesta : "That would be quite nice but for the over-heavy sculpting and the hideous green colour".

    o Porsche Panamera : "I wonder what the designer's guide dog thinks of this heap?"

    I think that's known as unbiased public reaction. At least she noticed them. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Those are what I call "brochure colors". Few will come to dealers like that, it's for photo-ops and car shows.
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,591
    Totally agree, and that's the fear. This isn't about European radios. And I'm not too worried about the loss of a lot of 'premium' content like leather, nav, etc. But different suspension tuning is seemingly a given, and I will be shocked if the US version beats a Fit in a comparison test over handling. Clearly the platform is capable of it. I'd be happy to be wrong.

    Bumpers have to comply with the law, so Ford can't be blamed for that one. Like Juice said, the suspension will likely be raised to meet US minimum bumper height requirements too.

    I've seen one of the 'Fiesta movement' cars driving around town, and it looks sharp. Let's hope it translates over here in a few months.

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Offer Sync and there will be no worries about the tech package.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    o Porsche Panamera : "I wonder what the designer's guide dog thinks of this heap?"

    But the 2 door coupe version to be released in a year or two is jaw-dropping.

    http://media2.paultan.org/image/porsche-928-panamera-large.jpg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm sure that's a photochop, but still, it looks sooooo much better than the sedan.

    At best the sedan looks ... awkward.
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    But the 2 door coupe version to be released in a year or two is jaw-dropping.

    Well, it's an artist's impression/CGI but it is better than the current beast. I have a feeling my non-car-nut spouse will still dismiss it as "Stretched 911". It's all academic in this household, anyway. Can't afford one and would almost certainly go the Aston Martin route if I could............and I know my sweetie would support that. Preferably one of the last of the "proper" Vantages with the twin-supercharged V8, of which she has been heard to say; "You can almost see the muscles rippling under those front wings, (fenders ?)".

    Sorry to digress, back to the real world.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    I've read the Panamera might make it into German Avis fleets, if anyone is interested.
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,591

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    It looks like Ford has used its platform for the basis of a Nano-fighter in India:

    Ford Figo is aimed at the heart of India's car market

    http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090923/CARNEWS/909229983

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It'll be interesting to see how they price it.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    your sweetie does have a way with words.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "If you ever wondered what the world would look like if we all ditched our cars, visit the Villages. Designed from the ground up as a golf cart community, it has developed into something even more compelling: a town where cars don't isolate people from each other, but rather bring them together.

    On a full charge, carts can cover about 45 miles, more than enough to handle a day's worth of leisure. Just about everything a retiree could need is contained within the 40 square miles of the community. Each neighborhood—or Village—is clustered around a recreational center, golf course, and pool. And it's just a short ride to one of the 12 fishing lakes or 85 horseshoe pits or 115 bocce courts."

    Tricked-Out Golf Carts Swarm Florida Communities (Wired)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The guy in the model A clone looks like he should walk - he could stand to lose a few pounds. ;)

    My wife's aunt just moved out of one of those retirement communities. She felt isolated from anyone except other retirees.
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    You get the award for "Understatement of The week". :)
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    I have no idea as to what mods the Fiesta will carry to USA vs the EU Fiesta but if you want a look at what we can get, here in UK, go to the link. You might like a little glance at the Focus RS too............uses what is basically the Volvo T5 engine. Whilst you're browsing, have a look at the pricing and spare a tear for us poor Brits.

    BTW, that lurid green that Ford keep showing the Fiesta in is amazingly popular here; mainly in the retirement sector for some obscure reason.............maybe so's they can spot their car in poor light with failing eyesight (?) Not that I have any room to talk on that front. :D

    Ford UK Specs
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    click on this link

    scroll to the bottom. look for 'mustang talk'.
    click on 'mustang stories & films'
    click the 'mustang films' tab
    select the one with the picture of the guy with windblown hair (Father's Day)
    that and 'Numskull', first one top left are my favorites.

    i hope they do the same type of thing for the Fiesta.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Same idea as BMW Films. Guy Ritchie directed one of those (Star), even funnier IMHO.

    The Father's Day one was clever, if a little long. They should edit the length down a bit.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    ok movie critic. 'Star' was pretty funny, but personally i like the BMW 'Ambush' film better although the 7 Series is pretty much the opposite of a sub compact.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ha ha :P

    We actually do have a movie reviews thread, somewhere...
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