What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

nippononly · January 2010

Well, they could probably undercut the Insight by 2000 dollars in price if they did it. Its a [non-permissible content removed] for tat with Honda that makes it worth it for them.

tifighter · January 2010

Production CR-Z launched at detroit today.

Mileage is disappointing, to me...

bumpy · January 2010

Yeah, it's a shame to say so, but I think Honda lost the plot somewhere in the mid-00s.

lilengineerboy · January 2010

Yeah, it's a shame to say so, but I think Honda lost the plot somewhere in the mid-00s.

2nd that.

I think they peaked in the 90s and were clueless by the mid-00s. On one hand I do like the Civic SI sedan alot (and it has a real limited slip), but on the other hand it is expensive, has no torque and requires premium unleaded. This is all they have to hold on to.

nippononly · January 2010

Well, I like that the 128 lb-ft of torque is on-line at 1000 rpm. :-)

31/37 for the manual is less than I expected, but given this is a hybrid-assist system instead of a full hybrid, those numbers for me will be enormously pessimistic, so I should get low 40s for my driving with the 6-speed.

I wish the press release had given the curb weight, it gave so many other specs. Did they keep their promise to keep it under 2500 pounds?

Thing is, this will probably be the first hybrid EVER sold in North America that is actually fun to drive (in more ways than just hypermiling rewards). So if it only gets to 40 mpg or so, it still carves out a niche all its own. I think mine will be an EX. ;-)

tifighter · January 2010

31/37 for the manual is less than I expected, but given this is a hybrid-assist system instead of a full hybrid, those numbers for me will be enormously pessimistic, so I should get low 40s for my driving with the 6-speed.

Hybrid assist. But only 4 mpg better than the Fit on city cycle. Shoot, only 1 mpg better than a base AT Civic sedan on the hwy cycle. Hey, I still like this car and still think its worth a look. I mean, my car and my motorcycle are both Hondas. I guess I just expected a little better mpg. Price remains a big question, too.

Oh, and I heard 2700 lbs.

Off topic - You guys see the new Focus? Ford is on a roll... :surprise:

stever · January 2010

Even my wife noticed the news about the Focus today. That's saying a lot.

nippononly · January 2010

Insight is 2700 pounds. This thing is a foot shorter and has two less doors. I suuure hope it is significantly under 2700 pounds.

I wonder which will slalom better, the CRZ or the "base AT Civic sedan"? If there is even a contest then you are right, CRZ has missed its mark. I suspect there will be NO contest.

nippononly · January 2010

Insight is 2700 pounds. This thing is a foot shorter and has two less doors. I suuure hope it is significantly under 2700 pounds.

I wonder which will slalom better, the CRZ or the "base AT Civic sedan"? If there is even a contest then you are right, CRZ has missed its mark. I suspect there will be NO contest.

nippononly · January 2010

Insight is 2700 pounds. This thing is a foot shorter and has two less doors. I suuure hope it is significantly under 2700 pounds.

I wonder which will slalom better, the CRZ or the "base AT Civic sedan"? If there is even a contest then you are right, CRZ has missed its mark. I suspect there will be NO contest.

nippononly · January 2010

:-O :-O

nippononly · January 2010

What happened here?

nippononly · January 2010

:-O

ateixeira · January 2010

There's an echo in here, servers must've been on break.

MPG with the 6 speed manual doesn't seem impressive so all I have to say is that it had BETTER be sporty.

That could actually be a good sign, that it is, I mean.

The production car sure resembles the concept.

oregonboy · January 2010

Off-topic rant alert!

I normally try to ignore grammatical errors, but nippon hit one of my hot buttons, and then triple posted it!

When talking about things that are counted, rather than measured, it's fewer not less. The Honda may have less fuel in the tank, but it has fewer doors. (dammit)

Okay, rant over. We now return to your regularly scheduled programming.

tifighter · January 2010

Thanks for making my post look so popular

ateixeira · January 2010

Grammer - that's where it's at!

No joke - I made a book cover for my Grammar class when I was in grade school, and I spelled it "Grammer". The teacher never let me hear the end of it.

stever · January 2010

Ordinarily we'd go in and clean up the dupes, but since y'all are enjoying is so much...

Check out Grammar and the Peeves that Pet It - and tell your grammer about it. She'll like it too.

texases · January 2010

So I guess I have fewer money than the Donald... :P

oregonboy · January 2010

Just as gasoline is measured in gallons, money (here) is measured in dollars.

You have less gasoline, but fewer gallons of gas; less money, and fewer dollars.
Nice try though.

(You may have less $ than the Donald, but probably better hair!)

tifighter · January 2010

I assume you have all seen the Aveo concept at Detroit from yesterday. It looks great, but I worry. If they actually build it like this, what cars would be left for us to make fun of?

thegraduate · January 2010

We can always make fun of people with Tatas.

I'm referring to the brand, of course.

nippononly · January 2010

Any time, any time. :-)

This thing could do 0-60 in 7 seconds or so with its low weight and instant-on torque. THAT and the superlative handling would be worth the somewhat mediocre mileage figures.

ateixeira · January 2010

That's still a concept. Tame down the fenders and make the wheels 3 inches smaller and that's what the production model will look like.

Remember that Hyundai Accent concept that looked uber-cool? It was nearly a rally car. The production model was still ho-hum.

ateixeira · January 2010

You know how models now get funny names, like Krom?

They should have a full model range - Bodacious, Enhanced, Unlimited, etc.

thegraduate · January 2010

Krom Tatas - that's just not right...

alltorque · January 2010

Here in the UK, the original Hyundai Accent had the model name in stylised italic script on the boot lid. Never really thought about it until a good friend pointed out that at a quick glance it could be mistakenly read as "Effluent". From there on I always read it as just that - and it summed up the car pretty well, IMO.

As they say; "Small things amuse small minds".

ateixeira · January 2010

Here's a big Accent SR image:

http://images.paultan.org/accentsr.jpg

hpmctorque · January 2010

I thought I was the only one who's bothered by the use of less in place of fewer. It's a common mistake, and one often committed by newscasters, who should know better.

hpmctorque · January 2010

Oh, there's no shortage of cars to make fun of. How about the new BMW, Honda and Acura crossovers, for example?

thegraduate · January 2010

But they aren't subcompacts...

snakeweasel · January 2010

Have you driven or ridden in one?

nippononly · January 2010

i do believe that was spam.

I would have a Smart car, but for the transmission (no manual available) and the premium unleaded. I like the spacious design (and features) of the interior and the ride though. It's plenty peppy enough.

That crappy automatic is a deal-killer for me.

bumpy · January 2010

For all the griping people do, the transmission on mine really isn't any worse than a regular subcompact manual. All the car really needs is a better exhaust to take some back pressure out of the system, and some time to get the clutch settled in.

nippononly · January 2010

I'm not griping specifically about the nature of the automatic - I will never own an automatic of any kind. But I will add one thing, and that is that IMO the existing automatic in the Smart is SUBSTANTIALLY worse than a regular subcompact manual (I know, I own a subcompact manual).

ateixeira · January 2010

Did yours improve with age?

I test drove a new one and for me it was a deal killer. If they offered it to me at half price, but I had to use that trans to get to work every day, I'd still turn it down.

Brand new, for me, the sample I test drove was unbearably jerky.

bumpy · January 2010

Yes, but most of the improvement came from the exhaust. I had the transmission reflash done and barely noticed any difference. It still headchecks some if I'm really flogging it, but that's a result of the soft front springs and the unconventional weight transfer characteristics from having the engine in the back. I have my eye on a set of progressive-rate drop springs which should firm up the nose some.

ateixeira · January 2010

I imagine you would also learn how to modulate the throttle to make the whole process a lot smoother as well.

Out of the box, to a new-to-Smart test driver, it's a real challenge.

bumpy · January 2010

I don't lift on the shifts (unless I'm doing it subconsciously?). I just keep it in manual mode and shift around 3500 or so.

nippononly · February 2010

If they brought this new A1 here and kept the price under $25K, I would be buying my first Audi ever:

Geneva auto show: Audi A1 packs big luxury in small package

The 2011 Audi A1 small car headed for a Geneva auto show debut packs plenty of luxury touches from Audi's larger cars into a small package--the A1 measures just short of 13 feet long, with a wheelbase of 8 feet. It is wide and short--5.7 feet wide and 4.7 feet tall.

But the big question is, will we ever see it on U.S. roads? Audi hasn't committed to bringing the car here yet.

$22-25K, 122 hp turbo, just imagine if they also brought over the 60 mpg (Euro cycle) diesel! Auto-stop/start for all engines, and the Audi interior. Sweet.

Because the A1 is designed for young buyers in urban settings, Audi took pains to make it easy to customize. The roof arch trim can be ordered in contrasting colors. Buyers can also get colored trim pieces for the air vents in the instrument panel and inserts in the doors. Audi offers a variety of its high-end audio and navigation systems on the A1, and the car even includes LED lighting integrated into the bass speakers.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100210/GENEVA/302109996

It's going to be a good year for subcompacts...

:-)

tifighter · February 2010

If they brought this new A1 here and kept the price under $25K, I would be buying my first Audi ever

To sell for $22k, you'd have to have incredible faith in the dollar, just like BMW had when it said it was bringing the 1 series over as the affordable BMW. We all know what happened there. Shoot, have you seen the price of the new Golf TDI? :surprise: :surprise:

Nice car. I'll check one out next time I'm across the pond.

ateixeira · February 2010

Nice - the Cooper success will spawn at least a couple of imitators (500 and A1).

The roof line on the A1 even looks like the 500's.

nippononly · February 2010

Well yes, the Abarth will be getting my attention too. But I am used to Japanese reliability, and the more I think about it I'm just not sure I could plunk down $20K on a Fiat. Some of you will be tempted to make jokes about the Audi, but my gut tells me that even with Audi/VW reliability what it is, Fiat would be orders of magnitude worse.

And of course, the new Fiesta will be a strong contender if they offer something here that is close to the European RS.

hpmctorque · February 2010

I'd like to see Scion or Toyota introduce an updated version of the discontinued xA. The xD is the closest thing to it now, but it's larger than the xA, and the reviews haven't been too good.

ateixeira · February 2010

I like small cars, but I'm not sure I'd go smaller than, say, a WRX or GTI. Those are just about the right size. Any smaller and you're usually getting a 2+2, and then I'd just get a 2 seater and save the weight.

bumpy · February 2010

Any smaller and you're usually getting a 2+2, and then I'd just get a 2 seater and save the weight.

That's why I got the smart. No sense in hauling around 500 pounds of dead weight if I don't have to.

nippononly · February 2010

I'm with you, which is why the CRZ is still on my list, despite the discouraging early reports on it.

plekto · February 2010

That's why I got the smart. No sense in hauling around 500 pounds of dead weight if I don't have to.
The problem is, though, that that 500lbs of "dead weight" might very well be you and your passenger.

Every other vehicle I see on the road is a large truck, van, minivan, SUV, or commercial truck. And the Smart never was designed to deal with crashes against vehicles of that size.

My best friend had a more rational solution and got a GTI. It's a dozen times better and more usable than a Smart, and if you get the TDI version, it's even more fuel efficient than a Smart.

http://tdi.vw.com/

http://tdi.vw.com/leaderboard/
With proper driving techniques that are about as slow and careful as a Smart Car under normal conditions, you can get highway results that are far in excess of the EPA ratings.

ateixeira · February 2010

I like TDIs, but that's a totally different price class.

I saw a Jetta wagon TDI at the auto show, really liked it actually, but it was $28k plus, of course. And it wasn't loaded.

Even stripped down, aren't those low/mid 20s?

qbrozen · February 2010

dunno about the wagon, but one of the mags has a long-term tester Jetta TDI. They have the cheapest model with no extra adds ... $23,090. BUT, it comes standard with power everything, moonroof, and heated seats. They did say that particular model isn't available anymore, though.

Looking at edmunds, seems the cheapest is $24k. But I think the one to have is the TDI Cup Edition at ~$25k.

What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

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